>when people believe the frisian meme s'ing my h every

>>69614512
my ancestors :)

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It precedes the Dutch language you troglodyte.

>>69614512
1. What is a language and what is a dialect is often more a feeling than real linguistics
2. Frisian standardized while other languages/dialects did not
3. Frisian Dutchified over the years
4. Some Frisian dialects are more understandable than others
5. They do not speak Frisian in east-Friesland and obviously also not in the Noordoostpolder (where they hell did you get that map?

>>69614512
Is this like the difference between Scots and English?

>>69615025
bullshit. they came from the same language so neither one came first
>>69615050
no idea where i got this map. markermeerpolder is also there for some reason

>>69614512
I wouldn't shake hands with a Fr*sian.

>>69615119
Smaller difference even

>>69615187
Are you a draadpersoonlijkheid?

>>69615160
But Dutch people were German-speaking immigrants to Holland from the Moselle valley while Frisians are a native North Sea people, innit?

>>69615361
no. southern dutch people are frankish. northern dutch people are frisian.

even if what you were saying was true that wouldn't mean one would be older than the other

Don't see your problem with it. Western Frisian is very dutchified, east Frisian germanified, and Northern Frisian a mix of danish/germanified.
It's still very much a different language

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>>69614512
Frisian Freedom when?

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>>69615160
Frisian evolved from old Germanic but split into its own branch before Dutch was ever conceived. To call it a dialect probably started as nothing more than a troll but since most normggers are ignorant pieces of shit and the education system couldn't care less about the Dutch let alone some subset to properly educate the youth, most of which are of immigrant origin anyways now.

But should I, as a descendant of this people even care, if they failed to defend it? Worse even, refused to teach it to their kids because it was "hip", because some treacherous bastard told them it was?

Do Frisians even exist irl? I've never met one.

>>69615361
Native or non-Native are vague terms, it largely depends on when you think there is a cut-off point to being native or not. Was it year x or year y?

That being said, modern Frisians are not (very much) related to that which the Romans called the Frisii, they were displaced by modern Frisians who took over the name. Also remember that Germanic peoples were moving around a lot prior to the middle ages, it is not strange to find one people in another place at another time. However, Frisians did leave a mark on especially Holland, Holland-Dutch dialects have a large Frisian substratum even though it is a language that is Frankish in origin.

>>69615452
>even if what you were saying was true that wouldn't mean one would be older than the other

True obviously, it really depends on when you mark a language as being into existence. Without such (quite arbitrary) marks every Germanic language could be stretched back into the ridiculous into proto-indo-european. Northern Dutch also have a lot of Saxon influence, while some parts (like Groningen) are a bit of a mix between the two.

>>69615459
i'm specifically speaking about western frisian which is practically dutch. Its just a dialect, not a seperate langauge

>>69615538
depends on what you define as dutch and frisian. how do you define them?

>arguing about an irrelevant language of a tiny as fuck contry in bumfuck yurop

jesus christ get a frisian life already

>>69615585
They're pretty much extinct in North and East Friseland, like, less than 1000 each.

Still strong in Westfriseland.

>>69615647
The language of Frisian, that evolved from Northern-Germanic languages. And the Dutch language that evolved from the Frankish languages.

If you had started this thread with specific reference to "West-Frisian" the heavily bastardised dialect of North-Holland I would've understood, still it's only bastardised because it used to be actual Frisian that intermingled with Dutch.

>>69615647
It isn't though, far from. There are similarities but it's far from the same. Frisian is part of the Anglo-Frisian languages, Dutch is Low Franconian

>>69615647
Also; why does the language bother you? It isn't used outside the province anyway

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>anglo-frisian

>>69615815
>Northern-Germanic languages

stopped reading

that's utter bullshit

perhaps learn something about linguistics before you comment on my thread

you are not one of those "friesland is scandinavian" fags i hope?

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>>69614512
dutch is a dialect of german
prove me wrong vaggot

>>69615909
the fact that people recognize it as a seperate language bothers me

it isn't even used that much inside of the province anymore by the way

>>69615870
>Frisian is part of the Anglo-Frisian languages, Dutch is Low Franconian

dutch low saxon dialects are also seen as dutch dialects despite them not being franconian

>>69616500
Friesland is Friesland, and Fries is its language.

>>69616688
but neither are north germanic like you implied

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>>69616579
Like I said in an earlier post, dialect and language are very vague terms. In a certain way all Slavic languages are nothing more than a dialect of each other as Slavic languages diverged much later in history from each other. So no, I cannot prove you wrong, as you will be right in your own terms, and no, if I say they are different languages you can also not proof me wrong as I will choose my own terms.

The best way to describe if it is a language or a dialect I think is ask the stupid question (with no relation to linguistics): "do the ones talking it think it is a language?", to which I would answer yes, making it a language to me.

>>69616625
>dutch low saxon dialects are also seen as dutch dialects despite them not being franconian

Again, vague classifications. The fact that the low saxon dialects are seen as part of Dutch has more to do with cultural and political boundaries than linguistics.

(N.B. this map did not include Frisian, the numbers given here have to do with the so called city dialects, which are part of Hollands).

>>69616741
The Germanic languages north of the Rhine.

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>>69616837
This is how cunning linguists mostly classify them.

>>69616837
the franks also came from north of the rhine.you are probably looking for "ingweonisch" (don't know the english term). frisian is not north germanic so stop implying that

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>>69617029
How silly, this one did not add Frisian which is what all the fuss is about.

>>69617029
why did the draw afrikaans like a nigger

i also believe (know) that the distinction in north germanic languages is currently more prominent between continental scandinavian languages and insular scandinavian languages this pic is kinda shite

>>69617039
Ingvaeonic.

>>69617152
>i also believe (know) that the distinction in north germanic languages is currently more prominent between continental scandinavian languages and insular scandinavian languages this pic is kinda shite

My knowledge does not stretch that far, all I wanted to show (I should have added the pic on >>69617100 instead) that Frisian is considered west-Germanic. Now I am going to eat, toodles.

>>69617203
you just said north germanic here >>69615815

>>69617292
Based on the fact that it's in the Northwestern corner of mainland Europe, North Sea Germanic would've been more accurate.

>>69617589
thats another name for ingveaonic

>>69614512
Frisians>>>regular Dutch''''man''''

>>69614512
North Dutch are Frisians
South Dutch are Bavarians

>>69621260
>Bavarians
Batavians*