Hasn’t history proven that Marx’s vision of an egalitarian

>>69280033
No, history has merely shown it can't be achieved through revolution.

Whether it can be achieved by evolution is as yet unanswered.

The people with the money and power have convinced you so
Capatalism with heavy taxes on the rich is the best system

>>69280761
Mondragon corporation doing quite well right now.

>>69280838
>Capitalism with heavy taxes on the rich is the best system

And how pray tell will you get the rich to pay those taxes when they can put their money in the Cayman Islands or buy politicians?

>>69281083
Wow I guess it's completely impossible to tax rich people then, good job turning my view around

>>69281267
You can try but they'll always find a way around it. Understand that "Tax the rich" actually means "Tax the middle class".

>>69281315
People will always get away with crime, but you don't stop going after them
Quit being such a good goy

>>69280761
This. Democratic socialism is the only way forward for humanity.

But even pursuing a genuinely social democratic programme seems hard under the diktat of neoliberalism and the right-wing populist backlack it produced.

>>69281506
But right-wing populists are just populists whose anger has been displaced toward "negroes and spics lol" by the rich and powerful. They're literally one empanada away from class consciousness.

I've grown apart from seeing equality as something automatically good and desirable over time. I am still in favor of equality of opportunity, but anything beyond that and it you get massive diminishing returns and start promoting mediocrity.

Another problem with Marxism and communism as promoted by modern leftists is that they don't understand the value of limitations, exclusion and borders. If equality is your primary goal, you should strive to reduce factors that cause inequality, yes? Yet leftists simultaneously promote diversity and open borders which is destructive to such an end. Northern European countries are the most equal countries on the planet and it is largely thanks to them having small, homogenous populations, which promotes a high-trust society. You don't need to be a damn white nationalist to realize that. But for leftists, that's unacceptable, so all of their attempts are doomed to end in failure as they simply keep shooting themselves in the foot by refusing to drop the international mindset.

>>69281748
>Northern European countries are the most equal countries on the planet and it is largely thanks to them having small, homogenous populations, which promotes a high-trust society

And yet, silly SJWs still don't understand why Sweden's model doesn't translate onto the US.

File: 1468116669134.png (29KB, 420x420px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 420x420px

>>69280033
True communism has never been tried before

>>69281615
This backlash is very dangerous though. I don't think they're going to achieve class consciousness desu. Instead they're going to destroy even those last remnants of the enlightenment universalism with welfare chauvinism.

It's called post-fascism and it's been festering in the Eastern-Central Europe since the 90s and it has spread to the West now.

http://bostonreview.net/archives/BR25.3/tamas.html

The ultimate failing of Marxism is that the people who want it are generally not the poor, they're rich daddy issues college students who never experienced any real hardship in their life. Nobody who's poor wants to be poor. You think some African dirt farmer wants to die of malaria at 45 and live in a grass hut? Of course not. He'd gladly move to Sweden on welfare and get a 50" HDTV if he could. There's no romance in poverty.

>>69281795
I've run into some nasty "arguments" with various leftists, feminists etc. over this. I was a gross racist for putting the facts on the table about their pipedream. I'm all for keeping race as little of an issue as possible - I'm not really in favor of immigration policies based on race, rather culture - but it becomes painfully obvious that much of modern lefitst politics, at least outside economics, is based on emotion and ideology, rather than reality. Often they simply push for "diversity" as having instrinsic value - we need to get brown people here for the sake of them being brown - rather than accepting skilled immigrants regardless of their skin color. Identity politics really is vile.

Many young western leftists are simply idealistic and naive and you can't necessarily fault them for that, they'll most likely learn as they get older. It's when you add Marxism to the mix that it gets really fucking dangerous. You're dealing with ideologoues who are convinced everything we've built is an oppressive construct that needs to be torn down.

Is this the crypto Sealab thread?

>>69281978
Or for that matter the fallacy that taxing the rich works or is even feasible.

>>69282035
Income tax is pretty stupid since the rich can just hide their money in assets, consumption tax especially for luxury products does work though.

>>69281837
What happens during the oil crash when most of the world still runs on petrochemicals though? America is already on its last <20% of national oil reserves (aka shale oil/fracking).

Sudden catastrophic scarcity will wake people up and make them violent, and they'll only attack other proles for so long before realizing, "hey, only the rich actually have anything to steal".

>>69282109
In fact it's believed now that oil is generated by natural geological processes and may exist outside of the Earth as well, unlike the traditional belief that 100 trillion dinosaurs conveniently died underneath Saudi Arabia.

desu Marx said very little of what communism would look like, he merely expressed hope that it would be more just than bourgeois socety