Since /int/ seems to be able to have a somewhat rational discussion.

>>68983885
Same person who posted this yesterday?

Anyway, that whole Syrian-Iraqi war and refugee crisis due to the war proved that Europe has become so incompetent in international politics and the EU is definitely nonfunctioning.

I don't think people would have been that skeptical toward the EU if the EU managed those refugees with Australian policy or something like that

who the fuck is the red part in the upper left

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seO5-x_ue_g

They look so happy that they are allowed to celebrate Christmas 4 years after our moderate friends took their neighbourhood.

>>68984037
>Same person who posted this yesterday?
Aye, it was a good (but short) discussion so I felt like having another one.

N U K E
U
K
E

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>>68984077
Le Turkish liberators

>>68984037
>I don't think people would have been that skeptical toward the EU if the EU managed those refugees with Australian policy or something like that
What really killed them was enforcing refugee quotas on countries in the EU.

>>68984130
Somehow, after /pol/ being more popular, /int/ has become a bit better place to discuss. Probably cuz some people left to /pol/.
>mfw /pol/ has a bunch of butthurt SJWs as well but /int/ is not tainted by either /pol/acks or SJWs

>>68984309
It's kind of funny that the supposedly 'political' board is the worst place to discuss politics.

whhy does isis still exist?
The great powers could take them out in a month

>>68983885
Muslims doing muslim things.

You could expend this map to Libya, Egypt, Maghreb, """Palestine""", Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen… these bunch a savages are just good to kill themselves and others.

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>>68984309
/pol/ has taken over as the true /b/ with flags that /int/ used to be.

I mean, they actually believe that Fidel Castro died because OP got quads.

>>68983885
Must we?

Can't we just have one Christmas on here when don't talk about sand nigger death cults?

>>68984355
because world powers are profiteering from the war so they choose to keep it going, even though one nuclear weapon could solve everything

>>68984077
Eternal Turk

>>68984165
aren't they literally infringing Syria's sovereignity that way? I mean Syria has authorized Russia to operate on their territory, everyone else involved on the opposing side works via the Syrian rebels. And then Turkey outright enters Syria, doing what they want?

>>68984256
Yea refugee quota was a stupid idea. Merkel said 'Oh accept refugees so that we can deal with Germany's decreasing population' and did that whole refugee policy. Then it got out of control and it irked other Europeans which made her refugee policy into complete failure

>>68984343
>>68984390
I am pretty sure that /pol/ has more people than /b/ these days. It's like people there are trying to make some stupid meme/kek magic or something rather than discussing actual things

>>68983885
If it wasn't for continuous foreign funding of rebel groups it would have been over 2 years ago
>>68984037
>>68984256
Honestly I hope it finally changes something in the EU.
The commission needs to go and the parliament needs more power (that of the commission)

>>68984504
They justify it as 'supporting pro-turkish rebel groups against ISIS', and since they're not actually clashing with Assad's regime directly, they get a pass.

>>68984355
Because Syria, Iraq and kurd territories are the neutral space in which Turkey, Iran and Saudi-Arabia hold their proxy slapfights. You don't go in there and solve anything, you watch these idiots each with their very special brand of islam duke it out for complete regional hegemony.

>>68984355
They get a shitload of money from many sources: cheap oil export, donations from jihadi tycoons in the Gulf states and Pakistan, sale of plundered antiquities...
Taking down Daesh militarily would not be hard, since their soldiers are crap - Turkey could do it alone if they wanted to. They have god officers though (Saddam's Ba'ath class and Caucasus Emirate veterans). But there is so much money involved, and they are so good at annoying the UN members on the ground -be it Iraq, Syria or Iran- that nobody but Daesh' neighbours are actually trying. By 'trying' I mean 'land invasion with probable terror attacks at home and videos of tortured soldiers making the news'.

>>68984504
Turkey does this in Iraq too.

Do you think Iraq/Iraqi Kurdistan will successfully liberate Mosul this time? How bad will the siege be?

>>68984610
>>68984683
That is utter bullshit. By that defintion, should things escalate in Bosnia more than they already have, we are free to march into the country and just occupy areas that we want?

>>68984504
Oh yes, they ARE violating Syria's sovereignty. So did the USA, Denmark and Britain when they murdered 100 Syrian soldiers in Deir ez-Zor last September. But the USA is a permanent member of the UNSC and won't let their puppets (Turkey, Israel, Saudi, etc) be harmed by international arbitration. Imperialists have impunity.

>>68983885
>/int/ seems to be able to have a somewhat rational discussion

You madman

>>68984789
The Turks just want to take down the Kurds, they don't want them to have their own state or army wherever it is. They don't really care - or used to not care - about islamists terrorists.

>>68984804
That's why I said, they operate via the rebels. They have no ground force or army in the country on their own. Turkey however does.

>>68984355
>>68984634
>>68984642
It's like noboday wants this war to be actually solved.
For Russia-Iran-Assad-Iraq, they cannot let Sunni to take over.
For Kurds, they don't want to end the war without getting their independence recognized by the international community
For the West, Saudi, Turkey, other Arab countries, they don't want Shia to take over and would rather have an eternal war there to prevent Shia expansion.

Too much conflict of interest there

>>68984789
>we must not let the kurds unite under one nation
t. Turkey

>>68984037
The refugee crisis aside, most countries in the EU weren't as bad in the Syrian Civil War as the US, UK, and France were. All three of those countries actively donated military aid to rebel groups whereas I believe most EU members weren't as directly involved.

If we're talking about international politics, Europe made a big mistake with the refugees, but there wouldn't be so many refugees in the first place if it weren't for the US.

>>68984504
They were hoping to support the FSA and "fight ISIS". The FSA is now mostly nonexistent, but they're still trying to depose Assad.

>>68984789
That is how peacekeeping works, yes :^)

The turks stopped only because the Syrian jets bombed their convoy, killing 2 as a warning.

>>68984926
I wish the coup was successful just so Turkey could turn into a helpless shithole like Syria

>>68984987
So then the millions of refugees held up in Turkey walk through your country to get to Germoney?

>>68984952
>it weren't for the US.
Yea I agree. War in Iraq and American involvement in Arab Spring were big, big mistakes.

Westerners often make mistakes that when they bring democracy/support civili revolution in non-Western countries, those non-Western countries will automatically become functional democracy with pro-Western attitude (which is certainly not the case)

Seriously, the West just needs to let non-Western dictators do their own shit unless they don't mess with the West. The son Bush really didn't know that unlike his father who just let Saddam Hussein to rule Iraq after the Gulf War.

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>>68984987
>I wish the coup was successful just so Turkey could turn into a helpless shithole like Syria
That would just make things worse.

>>68984870
It's an inevitable consequence when the country with the fifth largest oil reserves, situated between three competing regional powers, loses its iron-fist dictator, infrastructure and state institutions. Nothing good was ever going to happen. It's made worse by the fact that despite turks and saudis both being sunnis, most turks belong to the hanafi school while saudis are wahhabist. They can't agree on ANYTHING.

>>68985120
> The son Bush really didn't know that
Is the POTUS so mighty that he can decide to invade a country by himself? Because I'm convinced that most of the shit Bush Jr. and Reagan did was out of stupidity, not out of evil.

>>68985246
>Is the POTUS so mighty that he can decide to invade a country by himself?
Well yes.

Not because it's supposed to be that way but because Congress decided it was easier to say "fuck the Constitution" and cede that power to the Presidency because fuck having to take responsibility for a fuckup.

should we care?

>>68985318
>Not because it's supposed to be that way but because Congress decided it was easier to say "fuck the Constitution" and cede that power to the Presidency because fuck having to take responsibility for a fuckup.
WTF I hate the Congress now

>>68985246
>>Is the POTUS so mighty that he can decide to invade a country by himself?
Obomber has "the pen and the phone" and is doing just fine bombing shit in the ME. His "diplomats" are outright lobbying for a no fly zone in a sovereign country while the Congress is busy doing fuck all.

>>68985120
>those non-Western countries will automatically become functional democracy with pro-Western attitude
When Assad was elected in Syria, he received something ridiculous like 99% of the nation's vote, so did Saddam Hussein when he was alive. It seems like democracy is something that works best with Western culture and can bring a lot of turmoil to nations that aren't ready for it - like the Congo right now.

>the West just needs to let non-Western dictators do their own shit unless they don't mess with the West.
I agree. It's a shitty decision to make, but every time we get involved and try to force peace, more conflict arises. It doesn't help that the EU and US seem to be diverging from their perspectives on foreign policy either.

>>68985065
them walking through my country is the worst that could happen

>>68984037

The EU proved itself incompetent during the 90's when they couldn't end the Bosnian war and had to beg America to do

>>68985246
Well even Obongo used a lot of presidential executive orders to override Republican majority Senate

>>68985388
I just don't know how some idealists think that they can bring democracy so easily to non-Western countries. The West had to have like 2 centuries or so to change themselves into modern democracy. Even relatively successful examples of non-Western democracy Japan and South Korea are far from being Western style democracy. The Westerners, if they really want non-Westerners to get modern democracy, should let those non-Westerners to go on their own. But alas, the Westerners decided to force democracy and made so many non-Westerners anti-West

>>68985388
>Congo
What happened with the DRC is that belgians held all the vital positions that the country was ran from and neglected to train the congolese for when DRC would be handed over to them. Then some riots happened and literally all the belgians fled the country, leaving it in administrative chaos. Force Publique was one of the few institutions in which the locals actually participated in, and the few european educated congolese took control but essentially had no further qualifications. Lumumba wasn't ready for the responsibility and got murdered for it, and Mobutu was a greedy thug. Basically the problem was that there was no effort from the belgians to prepare DRC for independence, and the congolese got handed a political and economic entity that was utterly foreign to local cultures.

>>68985612
>I just don't know how some idealists think that they can bring democracy so easily to non-Western countries
It's easy to force democracy on a nation, but it's much more difficult to keep that same nation stable and peaceful. It seems like those idealists don't care much about the chaos that follows afterwards, so long as they believe they have done the right thing. It's a weird inconsistency between being very interventionist and then doing nothing.

>the Westerners decided to force democracy and made so many non-Westerners anti-West
It's not even always democratic, that's the worst part. To an outsider, it must be impossible to understand the West's actions. They kick out democratically elected presidents in favor of monarchs like in Iran and then claim to defend democracy across the world.

>>68985988
>It's not even always democratic, that's the worst part. To an outsider, it must be impossible to understand the West's actions. They kick out democratically elected presidents in favor of monarchs like in Iran and then claim to defend democracy across the world.
I guess personal interests trump moral consistency.

>>68985540
2bh we're the ones who decided to jump in, they didn't ask us too. they jumped at the idea when we offered help, but that's different.

>>68986082

No France and the U.K literally begged us to help them because they were making fools of themselves

>>68985844
That seems like a common fate for countries that the West gets involved with. They decide to leave or that their actions were a mistake and don't properly plan for the aftermath. Like the withdrawal of US troops from Iraq which lead to the rise of ISIS.

It makes me wonder in the case of Congo and other nations in that area, if Africa will ever become a stable and civilized continent. For all the leap forwards they make like with Ethiopia's economic growth, stuff like democratic issues just sets them back.

>>68986344
My opinion is that attempts at democracy will absolutely fail if the economic conditions aren't at least somewhat fair. What use is voting if some people can simply ignore the outcome or pressure the voting public to vote against their best interest?