how can yugoslavia ever recover

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doesn't make any sense. we live next to slavland, yet there's barely any R1a here

>>68980770

Most Finns descend from 2 guys who lived in the 2nd century AD. Before that bottleneck R1a was a big part of our ancestral gene pools both from Scandinavia and Volga.

>>68980770
check the map at your eastern border, it's obvious ps

"A total of 103 Serbian individuals were sampled in 2012, and the majority of Serbian Y-chromosomes (58%) belonged to pre-Neolithic lineages"

Yugo...dinar...ia ???

>>68980842
>mots finns descend from 2 guys
hmmm... really pushed me into a deep state of thought

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>>68980894

>>68980894

One of them was surely Germanic though so that decreases our inbreeding coefficient from Charles II of Spain tier to around Jew tier.

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>>68980672
>Hungarians are more Slav than Croatian and Serbs

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>>68980672
What a bullshit map, Poles aren't Slavs

>>68980842
2nd millenium BC, about 4000 years ago

>>68981103

200 BC - 200 AD according to modern dating methods.

https://yfull.com/tree/I-L287/

This is the Germanic ancestor

https://www.yfull.com/tree/N-Z1933/

And this is the Finnic ancestor

I don't think there's any lines going back 4000 years in Finland and if there are they are obscure.

>>68981046
East-Germanic tribes were mainly R1a m8. Vandals, Goths and Burgundians...

Goths and Burgundians both came from small islands next to Sweden (Gotland and Bornholm), part of the population migrated around 1AD. Burgundians even crossed the Baltic Sea after an internal feud on Bornholm/Burgundarholm in hollowed out tree trunks.

They then settled in modern Poland and mixed with the local "proto-Slavs", so that by the time of the Great Migrations 4 centuries later they were mainly R1a*.

Vandals were the only Germanic tribe to have colonized Sardinia, so their genetic profile can be easily determined, and half of it was R1a*.

Also, the remains of Goths that settled in Cantabria, Spain, are still very visible as a local peak of R1a*.

tito was the great

>>68980989
>>68980928
so finns were born through gay sex?

>>68981344

When a Russian and a Swede love each other very much...

>>68980672
are Russians, dare I say it... Mongolised Poles?

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>>68981344
No, We wuz Uralic peoples who decended to the west very long ago I think the timeframe was 10 000 years? And then got influenced by our neighbours and our own bottlenecking. But it's true that we have next to similar level of unique genetics as ethnic jews have.

>>68981484

That's not true though, at least in terms of Y-chromosomes.
There is no depth in N1c age in Finland. Even most N1c in Finland and Lithuania have a common forefather just 4500 years ago and he was from what is now Moscow or nearby.

>>68981479
Obviously. Slavs originally came from the v4 area, then spread east and south.

WE

WUZ

ILYRIANS

>>68981046
YES we are Sarmatians... (nah, we are the slavest of Slavs actually)

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>>68980672
>Iceland

>>68981704
http://www.slavorum.org/forum/discussion/4941/slavs-in-scandinavia

>>68981484
>similar level of unique genetics as ethnic jews have.
>unique genetics

aka severe inbreeding

>>68981760

The further south and west you go in Finland the less effects of inbreeding there is present in the genome.

>>68980672
they are turk rape babies, mixed with hun rape babies, mixed with austrian rape babies.

but their language is still slav tbhfamsmh

>>68981908
STFU Jew,they wuz Illyrians, Thracians and dinarics

>>68981993
"those mountain wolves"

t. Nicetas the Bishop of Dacia

"brigands among brigands and addicted to plunder."

t. Strabo

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Why do people hate on Slavs but don't hate on Scandinavians and Germans?

Thracians were regarded by other people as warlike, ferocious, and bloodthirsty.[30][31] They were seen as "barbarians" by ancient Greeks and Romans. Plato in his Republic considers them, along with the Scythians,[32] extravagant and high spirited and his Laws considers them war-like nations grouping them with Celts, Persians, Scythians, Iberians and Carthaginians.[33] Polybius wrote of Cotys's sober and gentle character being unlike that of most Thracians.[34] Tacitus in his Annals writes of them being wild, savage and impatient, disobedient even to their own kings.[35]

Polyaenus and Strabo write how the Thracians broke their pacts of truce with trickery.[36][37] The Thracians struck their weapons against each other before battle, in the Thracian manner, as Polyaneus testifies.[38] Diegylis was considered one of the most bloodthirsty chieftains by Diodorus Siculus. An Athenian club for lawless youths was named after the Triballi.[39]

According to ancient Roman sources, the Dii[40] were responsible for the worst[41] atrocities of the Peloponnesian War killing every living thing, including children and the dogs in Tanagra and Mycalessos.[40] Thracians would impale Roman heads on their spears and rhomphaias such as in the Kallinikos skirmish at 171 BC.[42] Herodotus writes that "they sell their children and let their maidens commerce with whatever men they please".[43]

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>>68982320
Because Slavs are masterrace and they are jelly.
Yes I believe it.
Yes I'm a little insane.

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>>68982320
>but don't hate on Scandinavians
We get lots of hate, though.

>>68982344
for >>68982114

>>68982372
And that is only the Thracians, very similar this were said about the Illyrians.

>>68982344
>rhompaias
We got from that "rrufeja" meaning lightning strike

>>68982344
thracians are bulgarians

>>68982476
i think you also got sica which was a thracian sword

>>68982320
Lets pretend that Europeans are a caste system like India is
Slavs are basically the second lowest class of Europeans and nobody likes low class people
Scandinavians are however middle-high class people
Pretty high on in the cast system, but not high enough for people to hate them like the people in high class

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>>68981760
And it means literally nothing. We do have some unique genetical diseases that follow us but even they are merely harmless or so rare that you wouldn't have ever heard of it. So call me confused but i missed your point.

>>68982515
Hey SICA was used by Illyrians too.Actually in Roman armies, Illyrians would have sicas and Thracians rhomphaias

>>68982527
Or a better way of putting it:
Nobody gives a shit about Scandinavians enough to hate them

>>68982552

Speaking of inbreds Hitler's parents were related.

>>68982515
The Romans regarded the sica as a distinctive Illyrian weapon. The principal melee weapon of the Illyrians was the Sica.[1] According to historian John Wilkes:[2]

Although a short curved sword was used by several peoples around the Mediterranean the Romans regarded the sica as a distinct Illyrian weapon used by the stealthy 'assassin' (sicarius)

>>68982742
Everyone is related if you go far enough back

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>>68982599
There wasn't much difference between Illyrians and Thracians, in fact modern Albanians are likely a Illyro-Thracian creole. We know that the Bessi, one of the most notorious tribes, settled in modern Albanian mountains in the early middle ages.

>>68982552
>severe inbreeding is harmless

t. pic related

>>68982748
>>68982599
The Thraex gladiator romans created used a sica. It was the traditional thracian weapon.

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>>68982742
Not so bad result tho. Lookswise i mean.

>>68982776
bessi lived in bulgaria

and they weren't the most notorious ones, just one of the last known ones

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>>68982776
>Hahaa it's le me posting pics and bantering on asian ricetrading board, i sure showed those inbred finns. by showing them a pic of some mentally unstable individual.

Yes it's that time of the day when i have zero resilience on your shitposting. So do us a favour and take a deep breath of Mustard gas and choke on it.

>>68982761

t. björks cousin

>>68982834
It was used mostly by Illyrians tho

>>68982776
Illyrian and Thracian were probably not even language but a group of dialects forming a dialect continuum.The most eastern Illyrian dialect was almost the same as the most western Thracian dialect.Albanian is a language spoken by Albanians(mountain people) of Balkans which were the least assimilated (since mountains).They probably spoke a mixture of dacian, Thracian and Illyrian.

>>68982886
yes but they move westwards in the end

>Some authors like Schramm derived the Albanians from the Christian Bessi, or Bessians, an early Thracian people who were pushed westwards into Albania

> Strabo, provides a record in which the Bessi[3] are described as the fiercest[4] of the independent Thracian tribes, dwelling on and around the Haemus range, and possessing the greater part of the area around that mountain chain. He calls them brigands among brigands and that they were addicted to plunder.[5]

>Pliny the Elder reveals that there were several divisions of the Bessi.[8]

interestingly:
>A Thracian personal name Bessus (attested in Northern Montenegro along with other Thracian names such as Teres) is considered to have the same etymon as Bessi (Wilkes, 1982).

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>>68982937
keep your shirt on m80

I wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year

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>>68980672
typical Croats look like this
>pic related
>our vaterpolo team

poles have nothing to do with germanics


stop we-wuzing you idiots, poles are subhuman slavic trash and nothing will change that, they escaped from belarusian and ukrainian caves in 5th century AD and stole Germanic lands

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>>68983120
and these are typical (eastern) slavs

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>>68983121
We ain't germanics, dats rite but you are being rude

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>>68983104
Hope you get killed. Happy hanukkah

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>>68983160
Croats again

>>68983160
Illyrian brother

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>>68983200
slavs

>>68983204
hello bro

>>68983194
thanks ;^) peace on earth to all people of good will

>>68983120
>>68983200
MOOR'D

>>68983194

He's Polish diaspora not Jew.
I wonder why Poles have such peculiar obsessions with Goths and Finns, must be some hereditary neurological problem.

>>68983266
That's how a Balkan native looks like you fingolian

i2 is slavic and originated in poland you allahbanian ape

>>68983283
Gothic names have no meaning in Germans, yet they make perfect sense in Slavic.

>>68983326
thanks for confirming it then, my fellow black man

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>>68983341
german *

>Jordanes mentions during the 5th century three Gothic kings, apparently living under Hunnic rule, called Valamir, Thiudemir and Vidimir. These names are quite odd, as the first two almost certianly translate to Walamar and Thiudemar. The last seems odd in the normal Germanic naming scheme. Unless the letter "n" was left out and it actually read Vindimir. In that case it would translate to Wendemar, and the three kings would have names meaning famous Celt/Roman, famous German and famous Slav.

>Isn't "mir" slavic for peace or world? Or is it only in Russian borrowed from Goths?
Whatever the history is "Vidimir" have a slavic vibe.

>>68983329
Do you know how to read cucksovar

Why are Poles and Finns both so obsessed with genetic wewuzing? Is it an inferiority complex?

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This is how Balkan will look in 2050

Dominance of two Illyrian states - Croatia and Albania over slav/turk mixed slaves aka s*rves and monteniggers

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>>68983283
I know. He's fucking obsessed about terms he barely fucking understand and spergs out immediately when proven wrong and then starts shitposting. Fucking scum.

>>68983341
>>68983378


>Polish fairytales

Goths were Gotlanders. Some proto-Polack which wasn't even a Slavic subhuman yet may have been their thrall.

>>68983386
what the fuck are you even saying, retard fuck, r1a is still pretty high in balkan slavs, but their main haplogroup i2, is also slavic and did not originate in the balkans, i2 is also the next common haplogroup in eastern slavs (russians)

>>68983423
>Goths were Gotlanders. Some proto-Polack which wasn't even a Slavic subhuman yet may have been their thrall.
You didn't understand my post.

Don't even respond anymore.

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>>68983401
Because in our case it's very interesting knowledge. You just know you're angloes most likely but in our case it's very obscure and complicated. which makes it interesting. Also you know. people generally are interested in geneology and their origins.

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>>68983401
because we do not know who we really are. some studies claim that finns are neither asian nor europeans, while some believe we are descendants of genghis khan himself and others think we are the true germanics and shit

>>68983408

Funniest thing is that for him the most reliable authority on all matters were some Romans who lived 2000 years ago and had 3rd hand information.

>>68983523
Yeh he went silent the time i told him that Most researchers agree that the fenni term very likely meant Samis since the archeological finds in Finland and tacitus's description don't match at all.

>>68983468
>>68983499
Fair enough, I'm interested in genetics too and imo Anglos have just as interesting a genetic history as Finns when you go far enough back in time. It's just really annoying how every single time a genetics thread is made it turns into a pissing contest full of wewuzing, 90% of the time between Finns and Poles.

>>68983403
Yes
>>68983378
Vidimir translates to good year/season in Albanian.Valamir translates to good breeze/wave .So were they Albanian?

HITLER LIKED US. HE LIKED --US--. HE LIKED CROATIA

HEIL HITLER

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>>68983194

"Finns are not only a unique people with an interesting history, they are also amongst the least savage and most civilised people that dwell this Earth, with certainly a much less savage historical reputation than the ancient Balkan peoples for example.

I, a well-known Belgian sperglord on this board and others, solemly attest to this fact, that they deserve our friendship and respect."

This is my holiday present for you, hope you like it, I have to go now.

>>68983590

I think on a logical level he understands that Finns aren't Fenni and Poles have nothing to do with Goths but his brain is so ravaged by Polish father-daughter incest that he becomes delusional while shitposting and starts to fantasize about being a Gothic warrior.

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>>68983610
It's mostly banter, at least on Polish part.

There is one autistic as fuck Finn though that takes everything seriously and goes all "MUH HITLER SAID WE WUZ WHITE" XD

Like fucking seriously, you're on Korean image board. Also, what's funny is that they can we-wuz all they want, but when "we" do it, it's all wrong and not true.

Some of the Finns even claim they're Sumerians, which is fucking absurd, since Finns also claim they're the blondest and bluest of em all. POKEMONS.

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>>68983610
Well? has there been a pissing match of we wuzing between poles and finns in this thread? All i saw is some other finn get into argument about eastern germanic goths origins and names.

>>68983695
>Poles have nothing to do with Goths but his brain is so ravaged by Polish father-daughter incest that he becomes delusional while shitposting and starts to fantasize about being a Gothic warrior.
Source on the incest happening here?

Well, you're obviously retarded and can't understand simple things.

They may have been Scandinavians when they were in Scandinavia, when they settled in Poland they became Slavshits.

U mad?

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>>68983698
>Finns also claim they're the blondest and bluest of em all.
Well duh, the whole world knows this fact

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>>68983698
Mostly it's just memes that comes within when people started to mem about the mongol thing some finns decided to take it even further. Also, we are the most blond and blue. Dunno why though.

>>68983698
Yeah, I know the guy. Annoying as fuck tbqh, always shows up in these kinds of threads

>>68983701
There is still plenty of time for that.

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>make fun of americans for caring about muh heritage
>meanwhile in europe, autists argue over minor haplotype differences

Anybody smells that? Did somebody shart?

>>68983874
>direct paternal line
>minor

burger got H?

>>68983752

Why can't you just be a proud Slav?

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>>68983874
>being a crude cultureless mess
>can't into finesse
It's like pottery.

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>>68983874
>Minor

when will non-haplotards realize haplogroups are the most important thing about your dna?

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>>68983977
Amerilard i presume?

>>68983995
That would be autosomal admixture

>>68983937
because Slavshit history goes further than muh 5AD swamp german memes.

Germans didn't live in Polish regions, they were never majority in here. There is no proof for it. Genetic or archeology wise.

>>68984026
No,a Serb slag.

>>68984026
bosniur

>>68984027
Hypothetically, why would your autosomal shit mean anything when your paternal line is abo? Autosomal DNA is just a guessing game and doesn't go further than max 400 years. You can be autosomally 100% western european and your y-dna could still tell you that your entire paternal line were abo subhumans.

>>68982320
>tfw descended primarily from Bell Beaker niggers and not the Corded Ware master race

>>68984053

Why are there no Slavic loans in East Germanic languages?

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>>68984026
no, Serb. She is a member of Serbian Radical Party

They supported Trump. Guy in the middle is Seselj leader of the party who had is own paramilitary which genocided Muslims and Croats during 90s :3

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>>68984152

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>>68984176
Varg is my spirit animal.

>>68984152
>East Germanic languages
because they got cucked out of their own language by the local folk lmao
they don't exist anymore.

also, the main force raiding Rome was Proto-Slavic, same haploshit as modern Poles and they were literally called Vandals, Vandals sacked Rome, but just so happens that those "Vandals" had the same genetic profile as Polacks.

Really makes you think, huh?

>>68984112
Haplogroups are way more meaningless tbqh. In theory you could have an East Asian, Abo or Nigger haplogroup but still have 99.99999% European DNA if the Asian/Abo/Nigger ancestor was far enough back. As an example just look at E1b1b, it's clearly an African haplogroup but there are people with 100% European admixture that have it.

>>68984112
point is that fairly early your paternal ancestors would stop being abos and would gradually become west Euro
in the same fashion, there's R1b negroids in west Africa, doesn't mean the males there are that much "west European", at best they are gonna have some small percentages of west Eurasian autosomal DNA

>>68984231

East Germanic=Goth, Vandal etc

There's a fucking bible written in Gothic.

>>68984266
No one speaks it anymore, cuck.

>>68984289
The Goths that invaded Rome did speak it, however :^)

>>68984231
>WE SACKED ROME N SHIEET

As i recall the It was nonetheless later conquered by Lombards and Ostrogoths, which were eastern germanic, Vandals migrated to maghreb.

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>>68980672
>Norway has more Slav blood than Finland

Really makes you think

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>>68984306
>>68984307
>being this assmad at the truth

My byli goci i wandale.

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>>68984253
>In theory you could have an East Asian, Abo or Nigger haplogroup but still have 99.99999% European DNA if the Asian/Abo/Nigger ancestor was far enough back.

but thats what im saying retard abbo nigger, thats why you shouldn't take AUTOSOMAL seriously

E is not african, it originated in western Asia, learn about haplogroup diversity, stupid abbo monkey

>>68984262
learn about subclades for fucks sake, not all R1b is the same, R1b-L23 say in Albanians is not even close to R1b-U18 found in the French, f.e

>>68984231
>the main force raiding Rome was Proto-Slavic, same haploshit as modern Poles and they were literally called Vandals, Vandals sacked Rome, but just so happens that those "Vandals" had the same genetic profile as Polacks.

source? not doubting you, just curious

>>68984421
see >>68984336

literally haploshits. they wuz slavs n shit.

>>68983120
Looks Italian

>>68984329

It's not Slav blood it's Corded Ware. Finns also have Corded Ware genes but they aren't represented among paternal lines because of bottlenecking.

>>68984450
pretty interesting desu, see thats why haploshitting is great, you'd never know with Autosomal DNA guessing armchair science

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>>68984336
Was i claiming otherwise?

t: >>68984307

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>>68984499
that's a russian aka mongolised polack

here's a conqueror of Med pussy

>>68984421
calm your asshurt, I know about subclades, but it's still a form of R1b, subclades only indicate a later split compared to the more basal splits

and the oldest E samples as far as I know are E1b1b from Natufians, while Africans have E1b1a, which means the split had already occurred, which means you can hardly say basal E is west Asian

>>68984477
yeah, our people are kinda mediterranean/slav looking 50/50

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>when your haplogroup is found in Merovingian burial site, warriors of Charlemagne

http://j2-m172.info/2015/04/three-j2-found-at-merovingian-buriel-site-roman-frankish-transitional-period/

>>68984421
Nope, it originated in the Horn of Africa. If it did originate in Western Asia, however (it didn't), that would only further prove my point that haplogroups are fairly meaningless except for determining population movements, migrations etc.

Also >>68984262 is still right, because the R1b subclade found in Africa came from R which originated in Eurasia.

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>>68984549

>muh dna
even worse than muh heritage

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>>68984599
doubt no more, senpai

>>68984552
>I know about subclades
>starts posting shit that proves he knows nothing about subclades

>>68984578
there are overall no european haplogroups mate, except I maybe, and even that haplogroup split with J in the kavkazz

>>68984599
>>68984635

As in he would've had more crotesque appereance and much stronger facial bones combined with a lot of beard. So no, I doubt your average Vandal would've looked like cheap copy of Jason statham.

>>68984639
not an argument
please explain how you are so sure E is west Eurasian

>>68984639

J is European too. They were stone age Europeans who conquered Middle East.

>>68984639
>there are overall no european haplogroups mate, except I maybe
I know, but this only further proves my point. Most European people have "non-European" haplogroups, does this make them non-European? No, because they have European autosomal admixture, which is thus the most important factor.

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>>68984675
>As in he would've had more crotesque appereance and much stronger facial bones combined with a lot of beard. So no, I doubt your average Vandal would've looked like cheap copy of Jason statham.
hmmmmm

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>>68984549
>swedensmostwanted
every tiem

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>>68984732
Now that's more like it.

>>68984687
west asian, because simply the highest genetic deversity of the haplogroup is there, which is literally how you define a haplogroups origin

horners might have the most E in total, but the E in west asia is way more different

>>68984705
some J clades entered the bronze age (like mine probably), others in the neolithic (like J2a)

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>>68984757
Too bad natural redheads are rare in Pooland.

It's mostly blonde snowniggers, dirty blonde or dark hair.

>>68984788
>because simply the highest genetic deversity of the haplogroup is there
source? the highest diversity of E1b1b perhaps, I don't think you have the highest diversity of E* in general.

>>68984788

J is originally European. Indeed most J in Europe would be from later migrations but that doesn't change the fact that originally European men descended down through Anatolia and cucked the ape people.

>>68984824
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2787129/

>>68980842
>Before that bottleneck R1a was a big part of our ancestral gene pools both from Scandinavia and Volga
There's not a single shred of evidence for this, though.

>>68984893
nah bruhhh we are CAUCASIANS who fucced anatolian women and later on yuropoors

>>68984895
be more specific, I ain't reading all the article, that's no way to argue

>>68984947
>The geographic distributions of the major branches of this haplogroup, given in Fig. S1b, suggest that most of the settlement outside of Africa by haplogroup E members involves the later mutant E-M35 varieties like M78, M81, and M123 that extended to Arabia and the northern Mediterranean coast.

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>>68984902
Feels good being R1a1 man and not a disgusting N1c Fingoloid

>>68984965
that pretty much confirms what I was saying, they are mutant varieties of E-M35 aka E1b1b, the more basal diversity is still found in Africa

>>68984902

Are you trying to claim that R1a was absent among Scandinavians and Volgamen?
That's a very strange belief.

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>>68985027
>>68985086
>be R1a
>ancestors contaminated my lineage by mixing with sub-human Finnuits

>>68985086
Among pre-Indo-European Scandinavians, yes. Even in post-Germanic Scandinavia it peaked at a mere 20%. Afaik the R1a lineages among Mordvinians and other Volga Finns can be accounted to Slavic admix.

>>68985198

20% is more than what we have currently in most of Finland.
Mordvin R1a being Slavic is the most retarded thing I've ever heard.
Mordvins are the purest descendants of the Corded Ware culture in Russia and the world and their haplogroup profile doesn't look Slavic at all.
If anything tons of Russians are actually Mordvins.

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>>68985072
so basically what you can say is that E1b1b is west Eurasian and not African, sure, which makes sense since east Africa was colonized by west Eurasian farmers autosomally related to those E1b1b Natufians
but E* is a much trickier thing, it's so old and predates the diversity of west Eurasia if we believe OOA in some form

>>68985375
Corded Ware weren't N1c, though, therefore it can be assumed that whatever input it had on Mordvin genetics was of non-Finnic origin.

>>68985496

There was an N1c man found in a Corded Ware culture context in Smolensk, Russia among R1a men. Maybe this fellow was the ancestor of Finnish N1cs.
Anyway look at Mordvin haplos

I1" 8
"I2" 1
"I2b" 3
"R1a" 36
"R1b" 11
"G2a" 3
"J2" 14
"J1" 0
"E1b" 9
"T" 0
"Q" 0
"N1c1" 15

That's a pretty exotic mix by Balto-Finnic standards but we only have a common ancestor with Mordvins, not descend directly from them.
I guess this common ancestor was a nice blend of non-Slavshit R1a and N1c and who knows maybe some R1bs too.

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>>68985676
So is Finnish R1a mostly of Finnic or Slavshit origin?

t. R1a1 man

>>68985805

In Ostrobothnia R1a is linked to the Oder region and most likely it means they are descended from Poles enslaved by Vikings.

In the rest of Finland it's mostly Finnic and came from Russia along with the N1c subclade that spread Finnic languages.

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>>68980672
I thought Slav was a linguistic group

>>68984336
>30% of Vandals had I2a2a
>about 0% of Poles have I2a2a

Vandals and other East Germanics make up a tiny percentage of modern Poles. Also, the "Proto-Slavic" lineages of Vandals are rather Balto-Slavic. Poles mainly descend from Slavs who dispersed very late (as linguistics and genetics tell us), not from the "Balto-Slavic" peoples who lived in the area for thousands of years. The land was almost completely empty when Slavs came after 500 AD.

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>>68981027
>French people are more Germanic than Germans

>>68985964
>Poles enslaved by Vikings
Triggered, Our legends says that proto-poles emigrate to Sweden because of shit King (Popiel). One of faggots, called Siemowit, decided to come back and he won a battle with Popiel and became first King from Piast dynasty.

>>68986310

But there's literally subclades which date back exactly to the Viking age.
I doubt Poles would have been capable of coming to Finland by themselves and there's plenty of evidence that Finns purchased Slavs.

>>68986093
>Vandals and other East Germanics make up a tiny percentage of modern Poles. Also, the "Proto-Slavic" lineages of Vandals are rather Balto-Slavic. Poles mainly descend from Slavs who dispersed very late (as linguistics and genetics tell us), not from the "Balto-Slavic" peoples who lived in the area for thousands of years. The land was almost completely empty when Slavs came after 500 AD.
Bullshit until proven right.
>>68986392
Western Slavs were never enslaved.

Read your favourite Viking sagas.
http://www.slavorum.org/forum/discussion/4941/slavs-in-scandinavia

>inb4 shit source
Just look what's there.

>>68987023

I just can't believe Poles could have come to Finland by themselves.
It seems like a bad science fiction story.
I can however visualize Vikings selling Polish thralls to Finns.

>>68987279
Why do you assume they were Polish?
They might have been proto-ruskie

Western Slavs fought against Vikings, with Vikings and settled in Denmark/Sweden/Norway and Iceland on their own, not as slaves.

There is no source to say they were enslaved.

>>68987339
Also later on, Vikings were used by Piast dynasty as warriors.

>>68987339

Because these particular Finnish men from Ostrobothnia have a very recent descent from Oder region. They don't have anything to do with Russia.

>>68987339
>>68987396

Also, who knows how many Finnish women descend from Polish slave women.
It's almost impossible to track mitochondrial haplogroups.
But you know, even though Poles are what they are if someone has only minor Polish admixture they can still be pretty good people.
Western Polish DNA would be higher quality than most Poles anyway.

>>68987396
>>68987643
But you can't say that all the Poles were slaves to the Finns and VIkings.

We have N people here too. Does that mean we enslaved Finns?

So Vandals were I2a2?
It's an overwhelming haplogroup in my region. Some 60% people have it, and in my region of origin, it's 75%
Ante was RIGHT
WE were Goths and shit

>>68988151
Also, I'm pretty sure every society or proto-society was selling their low-situated people as slaves.

>>68988151

But this is a very recent genetic link instead of one that goes back until the dawn of time itself.

The only possibilities are 1. autonomous Polish settlement and 2. slavery.

Would Poles really sail the Baltic during the height of the Viking age and settle into a foreign land?

>>68981027
Hungarians are just Slovaks who got fooled into speaking gibberish.

>>68981046
Poland Sarmation? When they don't even have the g to h change characteristic of Sarmatian influence?

>>68988338
>Would Poles really sail the Baltic during the height of the Viking age and settle into a foreign land?
I'm not sure about settling in Finland, it could be this scenario >>68988307

But Poles settled in Denmark and even Iceland.

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>>68988404
>But Poles settled in Denmark and even Iceland
And you keep doing it even today

>>68988469
DAS RITE

>>68988361
NO

WE WUZ KANGZ AND SHIET

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>>68988361

>>68988554
t. germanised slovenian

>>68988597
Don't make me invade you again

>>68988635
t. half-jewish manlet painter

>>68988564
nem értem

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>>68988635
>Austria
>invading pooland

>>68988718
Akkor buta vagy.

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>>68988665
>>68988822
STOP BULLYING ME
YOU WILL REGRET IT

>>68987023
>Bullshit until proven right.

Poles have a different haplogroup pattern than Vandals, for instance the lack of I2a2a (posted by yourself).

Slavic languages are very close and even today mutually intelligible to a certain degree, which is proof for a late dispersal of Slavs.

>inb4

It wasn't just the spread of a language, but massive demographic growth of a previously small group that used to live in a small area. That growth was enabled by the fact that large swaths of East-Central Europe were very thinnly settled or almost abandonded after the great migrations.

>BATWING analysis of isolated Slavic populations revealed that their divergence was preceded by rapid demographic growth, undermining theory that Slavic expansion was primarily linguistic rather than population spread.

>>68988875
nem is vagyok buta

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>>68988822
>>68988635
>when your cousin and your brother-in-law are fighting

S-stop it guys.

>>68989013
Pedig ha nem érted, akkor buta vagy.

>>68988894
>Poles have a different haplogroup pattern than Vandals, for instance the lack of I2a2a (posted by yourself).
Except not >>68984336
>Slavic languages are very close and even today mutually intelligible to a certain degree, which is proof for a late dispersal of Slavs.
Wrong.
>It wasn't just the spread of a language, but massive demographic growth of a previously small group that used to live in a small area. That growth was enabled by the fact that large swaths of East-Central Europe were very thinnly settled or almost abandonded after the great migrations.
It is only spread of language.

Bronze age Polacks are the same people as Polacks today genetic wise.

Trzciniec culture, Przeworsk culture, Lusatian culture. = Same people.

Take your XIX fairy tales back to your non-existant German Empire.

>>68989053
pedig nem értem és nem vagyok buta

>>68987023
>Western Slavs were never enslaved.

Polanians expanded and subjugated other Western Slavic tribes specifically because they wanted to capture slaves in order to sell them and import luxury goods in exchange.

That way the first Polish state was founded.
>To sustain this military machine and to meet other state expenses large amounts of revenue were necessary. Greater Poland had some natural resources used for trade such as fur, hide, honey and wax, but those surely did not provide enough income. According to Ibrahim ibn Yaqub, Prague in Bohemia, a city built of stone, was the main center for the exchange of trading commodities in this part of Europe. The Slavic traders brought here from Kraków tin, salt, amber and other products they had and most importantly slaves; Muslim, Jewish, Hungarian and other traders were the buyers. The Life of St. Adalbert, written at the end of the 10th century by John Canaparius, lists the fate of many Christian slaves, sold in Prague "for the wretched gold", as the main curse of the time.[98] Dragging of shackled slaves is shown as a scene in the bronze 12th-century Gniezno Doors. It may well be that the territorial expansion financed itself, and partially the expanding state, by being the source of loot, of which the captured local people were the most valuable part.

>>68989122
akkor legalább undarázs vagy?

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>>68989216
>That way the first Polish state was founded.
Thanks wiki parrot.

Teutonics claimed that Poland is older though.
pic rel. page from their chronicle.

Want another one? Maybe Prussian?

>>68989232
nem

>>68988237
you are thinking I2a1, Balkans have lots of I2a1 like Sardinia

>>68989055
>this level of denial

>Except not
Where's the I2a2a in Poland then?

>Wrong

It's true, compare the Slavic branch to the Germanic branch: Slavic languages diverged much later, ca. 700 - 900 AD. Germanic languages diverge at 250BC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Slavic

>It is only spread of language.

See source posted before

It's also disproven by archaeologic discontinuity

>>68983937
>Why can't you just be a proud Slav?

patronizing much? :^)

>2016
>being a slavshit

Feels good to be proud Thracian tb h

>>68989055
>>Slavic languages are very close and even today mutually intelligible to a certain degree, which is proof for a late dispersal of Slavs.
>>Wrong.

Oh please, Polack, I understand 90 percent of what you butthurters have to say. 100 percent of Czech, and I got further with Slovak in Croatia and Ukraine than with English. Don't deny this.

>>68991751
What's the difference between slovakian and czech?

>>68989055
we have enough direct linguistic evidence to call Gothic East Germanic. when we have direct linguistic evidence, genetic arguments can be more misleading than clarifying

>>68981046
very good post
>>68981242
very educated post
>>68981672
>>68988397
dumb and uneducated posts

>>68983977
cockta a shit

>>68983434
>what the fuck are you even saying, retard fuck, r1a is still pretty high in balkan slavs, but their main haplogroup i2, is also slavic and did not originate in the balkans, i2 is also the next common haplogroup in eastern slavs (russians)

Slavic is in this case a linguistic term. Already existing peoples adopted the Slavic language in a short time through the influences of one or two dominant tribes, likely the Antes and Slovenci. The East- and West-Slavs were before the 6th century mainly known as Wends, "Venedi", and the East-Germanic tribes (who started out as a small group of mainly haplogroup I1 men from the small islands of Gotland and Bornholm, but ended up chiefly R1a* by the time of the Hunnic invasions and the Great Migrations, when these tribes became quite relevant). The South-Slavic tribes mostly originated in the ancient Balkan tribes and likely also some Latins (later Vlachs), who later around the time of the Slavic ethnogenesis in the 6-7th century adopted the language from migrating West-Slavic tribes such as the White Serbs and the White Croats.

>>68998568

t. wewuzing slavshit

>>68984152
Because the proto-Slavic locals took the language from the migrants from the islands Gotland and Bornholm. They lived there for some 4 centuries.

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>>68998865

>>68998993
>>68999122

>WE WUZ GOTHS YOU KURWAS! WHY WONT YOU BELIEVE? WE WUZ KANGZ WITH SLAVIC NAMES

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>>68999303
Vandals were associated with the R1a haplogroup culture, so they were most definitely aryanic. Also their names that mean nothing in Nordic languages, mean a lot in Slavic languages, like Visimar, are germanized Slavic names (Visimar - Widzimir "sees the world" or Radagaisus latin version of Radegast "happy to host")

>>68999406
Just to remind everyone.

This is a """"""""""legendary"""""""""" ruler of Poland that did WPIERDOL to Danes so much, that Poles almost genocided the whole Danish population. lol

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizymir

>this whole thread

Have we hit peak autism lads? Should I start hoarding autism for when the shortage hits us.

>>68991875
Very small, around 8 percent of vocab is different + pronounciation difference.

Slightly more similiar than Norwegian is to your language.

Goths were Greeks, that's why they used a Greek alphabet. they were just a bit illiterate

Crimean Goths somehow always spoke Greek alongside this "Gothic"

>Busbecq's information is problematic in a number of ways: his informants were not unimpeachable (one was a Greek speaker who knew Crimean Gothic as a second language, the other a Goth who had abandoned his native language in favour of Greek)

QED

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>>69000374
Latest science says modern Jews are Greek/Iranian converts:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/scientists-reveal-jewish-historys-forgotten-turkish-roots-a6992076.html

>New research suggests that the majority of the world’s modern Jewish population is descended mainly from people from ancient Turkey(Anatolia), rather than predominantly from elsewhere in the Middle East.

>The new research suggests that most of the Jewish population of northern and eastern Europe – normally known as Ashkenazic Jews – are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonized what is now northern Turkey more than 2000 years ago and were then converted to Judaism, probably in the first few centuries AD by Jews from Persia. At that stage, the Persian Empire was home to the world’s largest Jewish communities.

>According to research carried out by the geneticist, Dr Eran Elhaik of the University of Sheffield, over 90 per cent of Ashkenazic ancestors come from that converted partially Greek-originating ancient community in north-east Turkey (Pontus).

Direct link to the study:
http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2016/03/03/gbe.evw046.full.pdf+html

>Jews are getting btfo by their own Jew Science
>Israeli Jews btfo, you cant claim territories your ancestors never set foot on
>Evangelicals who support Ashkenazi Jews migration of Israel under the pretext that they are descendants of ancient Israelites btfo
>Jews can now claim they are whiter than Germans

hmmmmmmmmmmm

>>69000451
to be serious for a sec, Elhaik's "geographical" methodology is a bit shit

we won't know with absolute certainty until we get more ancient samples but right now, endogamous Ashkenazi Jews look like a mix of Levantines, Southern and Western, and Northeastern Europeans in roughly 50-40-10 proportions. they seem to have something Caucasian/Iranian-related (Khazar?) but it's minor

>>69000374
Celtic tribes often used the Greek alphabet too back in the 1st century BC, quite a few curse inscriptions on bark or metal in Gaulish were written using the Greek alphabet.


Crimean Goths lived until around the 18th century, then they merged with the local Crimean Tatars.

>>69000953
Crimean Goths lived in an area with a Crimean Tatar majority yet they somehow adopted Greek...something smells fishy here and I'm not talking about ur mom's pussy

Goths were definitely Greek

most Celts were likely Greek too, Anglo-Germanic propaganda just covered it up

>>69000374
Of course the region where the Crimean Goths lived was also a Greek colony since antiquity times, and Greeks still lived there when the Tatars dominated the area. So naturally the language would have been a language of trade.

Many Flemings lived for a long time in a Francophonic dominated land too, but kept their own language of the people. Look at the French-Flemings they survived 350 years in France (now it is dying due to young people leaving for the cities).

>>69001236
>Crimean Tatar majority
>a minority language somehow is adopted as "language of trade" that the Goths adopt instead of Tatar

well-said, my Dutch friend

Would actually want to see a source for this, unless this is just another meme map

>>69001325
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a

>>69001182
m8 the Goths came from Gotland, an island next to Sweden, it's in their own written history. And and they lived for several centuries in what is now Poland.

When the Great Migrations came they split in three groups: Visigoths, Ostrogoths and the Goths who ended up in the Crimea. Only the latter got infuenced by the Greek language, which naturally was held in higher esteem than the Tatar language.

>>69001418
we need to be serious again? well, ok

all Gothic was influenced a bit by Greek actually (though even more so by Latin). I had a nice paper on this but I can't find it right now

as for the ultimate origin of the Goths before Poland, the connection to Gotland is uncertain as you surely know

>>69001660

Yep - they were from Finland but there's a conspiracy to suppress the information.

>>69001660
sorry for mansplaining it to you ;^)

>>69001740
I believe in the Goths and Rus were Finnic theory but Swedish propaganda has erased this fact from the record

>>69001660
Well there is their own written lore. And what else is documented in the records.

>>69001824
Don't know about Rus, but Rurikids were Finnic.

>>69002133
Rus was mostly Western Slavic.

Kievan Polans, Radimichi, Vyatichi

>>69000451
So if I took a genetic sample from a Pontic Greek and an Ashkenazi Jew, should I expect very similar results?

>>69002422

What kind of Slavs were Anglo-Saxons?

>>69002456
The ones that went with Cnut.

So Western Slavs.

>>68980672

is haploshit the national hobby of Poland?

>>68983378
Germans are Scandified Polabians Tbh

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>>68984732
>more crotesque appereance and much stronger facial bones combined with a lot of beard
>>69005934
Yes. Not only national, but also traditional.
Wewuzing about Sarmatians was the cultural cornerstone of PLC's nobility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarmatism

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R1a=/=Slavic exclusively

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/47/18226.abstract

http://dirkschweitzer.net/LichtensteinCaveAnalysis0804DS.pdf


Also many subclades of I2b in the balkans are probably slavic . They reach their highest genetic diversity in the Belarus/Ukraine area

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>>69007390
To go off your statement, how much contribution did these West Slavic tribes make to the modern Gernman gene pool?

>>69008192

So that's why they keep losing wars

>>68983341
>Gothic names have no meaning in Germans, yet they make perfect sense in Slavic.
That's complete and utter bullshit.

Some of the Visigothic kings:

>Alaric: Ala- meaning "all" and -ric/-reiks meaning "king"
>Ataulf: At- is a cognate with ad-, meaning "war", or may also be a cognate with att- meaning "father" and -ulf is a cognate with -wulf, obviously meaning "wolf"
>Sigeric: Sig-, seg-, sag- all mean "victory"; -ric has already been addressed
>Wallia: Wal-, Val-, Qual-, Gual- can either mean "battlefield" or "Celt, foreigner"
>Theodoric: Theod- is a cognate with Theud-, Thiud- and means "people, folk, nation"; -ric has been addressed
>Agila: Agil- is a cognate with Aethel-, Ethel-, Ata-, Adal- all of which mean "noble". -ila is the Gothic and Suebic diminutive.

etc., etc.

>>68981908
>tallest people on the planet
>manlet rape babies

what did Shlomo mean by this