Who are they? Where did they come from? I know how Slavs, Germanics

>Where did they come from?
They're pretty much the same people who have lived there tens of thousands of years. Same goes for all of europe. There hasn't been such population shifts that would've wiped the original natives.
Languages and culture may change but not the people

>>68930012
So they lived in Spain?

I know Slavs started out in Poland, Germanics in Scandinavia, Romance people in Italy but I had no idea about the Spanish people.

>>68929967
Romanized celts plus roman colinists and very little germanic and very little berber in the South. And of course the Vascones

>>68930066
>Vascones
Who's that?

>Romanized celts plus roman colinists and very little germanic and very little berber in the South
So Spanish people are a mix that formed a nation after Al Andaluz thing ended?

>>68930048
Slavs are just a language group. Indo-european languages overall started spreading in europe only few thousand years ago while europe has been inhabited for tens of thousands of years ago.
They didn't "start out" anywhere, they've been living there always. just adopted a new language over time

Spaniards are Iberians (old Europeans), Celts and a little admixture of Germanics (Indo-European).

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They're a mix of Visigoths who migrated there when the germanic migrations began, Wee bit the original people who lived there and Ibero-Roman and some Moor depending where you live. I think that's pretty close to reality. Correct me if i'm wrong spaniards

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>>68930114
>Slavs are just a language group.
Well yes and no. There were slavic people who migrated too. They just mixed a lot for example with croats and Avars.

>>68929967
>Charles Martel beat them under Poitiers

No, that was the Muslim invaders who had entered France after overrunning Spain.

>the Romans built the first cities in Spain

No, there were already cities in Spain, ranging from Greek colonies such as Emporion to Iberian settlements or Celtic oppida.

The original inhabitants of the Iberian peninsula are the Iberians, a group of pre-indo-European peoples. There was an influx of Celts in central Spain due to migrations, which are commonly known as Celtiberians.

Other than that, the two peoples that made the longest-lasting imprint (genetically and culturally) were the Greeks and Romans.

The Visigoths were few in number (estimated to be about 100.000 at the most) but made a fairly strong cultural imprint, leaving vocabulary, laws and customs. They originally had their capital in Toulouse but were defeated by the Franks in Vouillé, moving southwards and establishing their power in the Iberian Peninsula, with their capital in Toledo. During the Reconquista, the northern kingdoms looked to the Visigothic kingdom as their claim to supremacy over Spain, and having the blood of the Goths was the mark of nobility.

Finally, the Moors made a lasting imprint in terms of vocabulary, to the point that there are often two words, one of Latin origin and one of Arabic origin, for the same thing. For instance, "habitación" and "alcoba" both roughly mean the same thing. The Arabic variants are less popular, though, and have been falling out of use over the centuries. Memes aside, the berbers left very little in terms of genetics, mainly due to their low numbers and to the nature of the Reconquista and how it was carried out (repopulating reconquered areas by granting serfs from the north free land and favorable conditions) and the later decrees of expulsion.

tl,dr: Genetically we are pre-Indo-Europeans mixed with some Celt and 10-20% of Greek and Roman. We have also received cultural influence from the Visigoths and Moors.

>>68930184
The thing is they're all europeans no matter the language. There's been countless migrations over the years in prehistory my point is that all present europeans are pretty much the same people who've been living in that area since the ice age.
Languages changes for example indo-european langauges are relatively new, before there were countless different unknown languages spoken in europe.

>>68930104
>So Spanish people are a mix that formed a nation after Al Andaluz thing ended?

No, the Spain that formed after the end of Al-Andalus presented itself as the successor state of the Regnum Hispaniae (Kingdom of Spain) of the visigoths. The idea of restoring the visigothic kingdom was one of the driving forces among the Northern Kingdoms during the reconquista and a source of their claim to legitimacy.

>>68929967
>Romans built the first cities in Spain

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Millares

Nigga, and even Cadiz is older than Rome.

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>>68930305
Well yeah there you're right.

Though if we look origins we finns come from an pretty old untouched haplogroup from the urals some time ago whereas the origin of the indo-european group split off at some point when they came to europe. But yeah that doesn't really matter at this point. it's all so adapted and mixed you couldn't tell us apart from other europeans.

>>68930144
Suebi and Visigoths, like Arabs after them, were a ruling minority. Most people here were the same Celts and Iberians who had lived here since pre-Roman times.

Roman soldiers settled here for sure, but most Roman troops were usually native allies and mercenaries, both in Hispania and the rest of the Empire.

Anglos tend to believe that all civilisations always expanded like whites did in North America - wiping out all the natives and replacing them by immigrants. In fact, that's an exception. The rule was: you win a few battles to show that you're mightier, then you bribe locals to join your side like there is no tomorrow, and when you win the war, you take the role of the ruler and make the locals worship your God, speak your language and pay taxes to you. Replacing natives by other peoples is a much more modern thing.

>>68930104
Vascones were the ancestors of the basques

>>68930483
>>68930336
>>68930283
Which part of Spain did the Iberians start in?

Annex Portugal

>>68930283
The Moors themselves indeed left little genetic material, but what about earlier Phoenician/Carthaginian settlements?

>>68930344
Rome was founded by some etruscan and latin peasants and was a little irrelevant village when Sicily was an Empire under Dyionizyon Ist

>>68929967
>Spanish lived there in ancient times
>Ancient spanish tribes fought Carthage / Rome, and lost to Rome eventually.
>Ancient Iberian gets invaded, and taken over by a series of German barbarians.
>One was the Suebi who took over Galicia/upper Portugal
>The other was the Visigoths who controlled the rest.
>They rule their own lands until Muslims come and take over.
>Northern Visigoths hold on, but the rest is taken over.
>Muslim Umayyad's fall apart, and the reconquista begins.
>Spanish kingdoms such as Castille, Leon, Aragon, and the Suebi/Galician kingdom of Portugal
>Leon and Castille become one
>All the kingdoms begin to explore the new world.
>Aragon and Castille become Spain
>Spain and Portugal being to dominate.
>Spain stops doing it's thing due to gold inflation destroying their economy. (That darn cursed Aztec Gold)
>Spain sinks into obscurity
>Portugal forced to abandon trade, and sinks into obscurity.

People also think that Atlantis was at the south of Spain or something too.

>>68930550
Prior to them leaving material cultural remains we can't know for sure, but the earliest traces of Iberian culture appeared in eastern and southern Spain. Prior to Iberian culture they were preceded by earlier copper age and early bronze age cultures such as the Los Millares Culture, the Vila Nova culture and, later on, the El Argar culture, all of which produced cities and advanced cultural artifacts but which have no written history.

>>68930625
Their presence was anecdotal as they were mostly interested in trade. They did have a cultural influence on the Iberians, however, as is reflected in their art.

>>68930699
>People also think that Atlantis was at the south of Spain or something too.

You're probably referring to the semi-mythical kingdom of Tartessos.

>>68929967
we are basically 90% celtiberian master race (pre-indoeuropeans iberians and celts) and 10% a mix between romans, goths and moors.

>>68930550
Google "Celtiberians".
In general, there were three big families of natives to the peninsula: Celts (centre, west, northwest), Basques (north) and Iberians (East, south). Celts were Indo-European, Basques and Iberians were not. However, they lived side by side for such a long time that it is stupid to claim >muh heritage or >muh one drop rule, this only ever mattered to Anglos. Then there were Phoenician (i.e. Semitic) and Greek traders on the coast, which complicates everything.

We wuz the first civilisation in the West (Tartessos) and the first city in Western Europe (Cádiz. Which by the way still exists, 2900 years later). We are too confident to care about "where we really come from".

>>68930625

Irrelevant, just like the greek colonies in terms of population.

Now Jews on the contrary... Hispania was like Judea Central, after the Byzantine Empire, during immediate post-Roman times. Even though nobody liked them and the Visigoths eventually went full pogrom on them. Lots of them being jew 24/7. That's when our love story with the jews began.

Anyway, we're basically the same old same Iberians, Celts and Basques in a mix.

>>68930625
It's impossible to distinguish between arab and phoenician blood because they are/were basically the same people

>>68930114
Yes.
>Recent genetic studies, however, determined that people who live in the current territory of Poland include the descendants of people who inhabited the area for thousands of years, beginning in the early Neolithic period.

But I actually didn't know that.

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>>68930483
Interssting, thanks for the info.

TELL ME ABOUT SPAIN

WHY DOES HE WEAR THE BASQUE?

For real though where do Basques come from?

>>68931195

Iberians and Basques are original from Spain.

Other than that, from the Rift Valley in Africa, like everyone else.

>>68931102
Fucking this

>>68931571
Aren't basques older than iberians ? Their language is not even indo-european, no one knows where they're from.

>>68931672
Iberian isn't indo-european neither and it seems basques are closely related to the neolithic farmers.

http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-basques-iberian-farmers-03216.html

>>68930878
Correct me if i'm wrong, but did Celts bring Gaellic tongues from present day Cornwall & Wales into what is now Galicia? I believe I read that up somewhere.

>>68931672
They sound Polish desu.

>>68931718
Nobody knows for sure if galicians and lusitanians spoke a celtic language, some say it was pre-celtic because it has different features.

>>68931718
Whut, they don't speak gaelic in Galicia.
But they do speak Viking in Asturias fock yeåj

You're all Armenians and you don't even know it.

>>68930521

No, it's the same people.

Vascones was used to refer to the 'wild basques' that lived independently in their mountains doing their basque things and speaking their basque stuff.

Gascones was used to refer to the 'domesticated basques'' that lived at the other side of the mountains, more romanized first and then more aquitaine-ized later, ended up speaking franco-romance, and were no longer into doing rebellious basque things up and deep in their bushes.

Tell about black Irish, they look like us for example Colín Farrel, Catherine Zeta Jones

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>>68929967
>All I know is that the Romans built the first cities in Spain

>>68931672

Iberians weren't indo-europeans either. They predate the indo-european arrival to Europe.

There some iberian scriptures but the language hasn't been decyphered.

>>68931718

Gaellic has never been spoken in Galicia or anywhere in Spain. Celt languages? Sure. Probably long before there was any celt speaker in Ireland.

>>68930699
Spain was at war with 3 people at the same time (Portugal, eighty years war and thirty years war), ending in their downfall.

Portugal fell in decadence when D. Sebastian thought it was a good idea to go full crusader in Morocco with his few men. He died with no heir, the Spanish should king succeeded to the throne as he was the next in line of succession. Being under Spain meant the Spanish enemies were now their enemies, and that sucked for Portugal.

>>68931962
This. Continental celtic languages (now extinct) predate the insular celtic languages.

>>68930550
everywhere in spain 100% while expanding north.

>>68932004
>Spain was at war with 3 people at the same time

Because of Hasbourg terrible rule. Demoniac austrian-german blood always ruining everything.

>>68929967
>Roman built the first cities
>Charles Martel beat us

Polish educaishium

>>68932004
Spain had a civil war with Catalonia and Portugal, it was fighting the dutch, the french, the english, the swedes, the protestant germans, the ottomans and the berberisc piracy. Spain got sandwich'd just like nazi Germany.

>>68930066
Most like:

Celts, Iberians, with a little admixure with Phoenicians and Greeks.

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>>68932711
ethnogeographical hammer of knowledge.

>>68932768
You know, if you had defended true Christianity when it mattered instead of allying the Turk and joining the Prot*stant side, that would have helped everyone.

>>68932823
There were no celts, but tiny and I mean tiny of britons and franks mixture on the northern and eastern frontiers of the pyrenees.

>>68930283
You forgot Phoenicians. They founded the oldest cities still inhabited here (Gadir (Cadiz), Sexitania (Almuñecar)...)

>>68932866
You forgot Phoenicians.
They were nothing.

>>68929967
The Iberes came from what we nowadays call France and, in front of the Gaul invasion, they ran to the other side of the Pyrénées in what we now call the Iberian Peninsula.

All these people telling me what I AM, kek.

Iberians people are Iberian a chairs a chair IBER dna is Iber.

>>68930283
Also, we havent got DNA influence from moors (they were a few thousand really, in the elite of society, and didnt mixed wit the population.

Our DNA semitic influences come from Phoenicians who arrived here in 1100 BC.

>>68930876
>Moors

Phoenicians

>>68932960
Exactly. It is estimated that 200.000 Moors entered the Peninsula (similar figure for Visigoths) which had 4 million inhabitants at the time. Considering that very few hispano-visigoths chose to convert (for instance, Moorish historian Ahmad ar-Razi noted, in the 10th century, that all of the inhabitants of the Montes de Málaga were Christian, without a single Muslim), mixture was minimal.

The ironic thing is that, after the reconquest, those Moors who stayed were segregated into their own communities because they were bound by extra taxes by virtue of their surrender agreements with the conquerors, and these communities remained until the decrees of expulsion of the 17th century. It is likely that, after the expulsion was decreed and those villages were dissolved, some would have attempted to stay by converting to Christianity and attempting to blend in with the population. Anyone got information on this?

>>68932789
I had barely any education about Spain. Al Alndaluz had a big chunk of Spain so I thought the soldiers were Spanish.

Also I did not know about Greek cities in Spain.

>>68932902

The Gauls came from what we nowadays call Turkey and, in front of the German invasion, they ran to the other side of the Lorena in what we call nowadays Frankreich.
in what we call nowadays Frankreich.

>>68931718
Think maybe is other way around, read somewhere ireland was conquered by celts that set sail from Galicia.

>>68933102
Think so, same with the jews I think but vast majority chose to follow their people and sometimes religious reasons convinced them to stop pretending to be christians. Some just went to Salé or some other Morroccan place and either blend in or become corsairs to try and do some damage to Spanish shipping.

>>68933433
Yes, though this hypothesis is usually discounted nowadays.

Nice digits btw

>>68929967
Neanderthals

>>68931102
Phoenicians were levantines not arabs

>>68933710
It's not discounted. The Gaels didn't just magically appear in Ireland, they arrived from the European continent most likely either from what is now southwest France or the Atlantic seaboard of northern Spain.

However the majority of the Irish gene pool comes from other sources much earlier in history (from Mesolithic and Neolithic colonists, some of whom incidentally originated in Spain)

t. Ancient Ireland pro

>>68933152
Phoenicians even had trading ports in northern Spain.

>>68933152
Al Andalus never existed as a political unit

>>68933932
phoneticians ports had no effect.

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Iberians are Iberian,

>>68933932
And maybe in Wales. They expanded fucking everywhere.

>>68933975
Didn't know about that but they came to the islands for the tin.

>>68933412
This desu we are secretly t*rks.

>>68933850

There might have been some small groups getting there from Galicia, but adding in to the local celt population already there rather than a full colonization happening straight from Galicia. Still, speculation.

What is documented is the settling of britons in the province of Lugo fleeing from the anglo-saxon invasions.

>>68933998
It is a theory. Romans found phoenician type rituals when they arrived to Wales similar to the ones that they found in Spain

The natives of Spain are Iberian's the developed indepedently for hundreds of thousands of years, mixed people with semites and such is recent, population of non Iberian in Iberia is fairly high but not as high as other countries.
Portugal on the other hand is almost entirely far gone.

>>68934031

Romans liked to talk shit a lot.

However there's no doubt they reached the Cantabric Sea and it seems that they traded amber as well, so they might have sailed as far as the North Sea.

Moors

>>68934294
GA

>>68933850
Also a git of an expert, I used to dig up all the books I could find on this subject.

I had this wonderful old book published by a Galician research group who endorsed the hypothesis. They had reconstructed boats made from reeds after illustrations on petroglyphs and tested them to see if they were seaworthy. They took them out for a spin in the Atlantic and they did just fine, though I think getting all the way to Ireland would be a good deal trickier.

The most convincing evidence I've ever seen is the presence of a very distinctive type of bronze axehead on both sides. These axeheads are all over the place in Galicia (an uncle of mine owns a metal detector and has a house full of pilfered bronze axeheads and other Celtic antiques...) but the design may very well have reached Ireland through a gradual transmission of knowledge rather than through direct contact.

We can't say any of this for certain, of course, but it sure is fascinating.

>>68935346
*bit of an expert

Now that made me look silly didn't it

Native peoples: iberians
PLus celts more than 10k years ago
Basque people (they seem to come from a region in north Armenia)
+
Alanians (people from south Ossetia)
Tartessian berbers 5k years ago
Phoenicians
Greeks
Carthaginians (berbers+phoenicians)
Romans
Jews
Small pockts of people from all parts of Roman Empire
Visigoths
Viking rape babies in the north
Lusitanian people in the west
People from the East Roman Empire (Constaninople)
Arabs
Canary Island natives
Some migrations of germans and italians from the Empire times

test

The first cities were phoenicians

>>68935825
Chinese people, africans, mexicans,

>>68931834
phoenician first, after that carthaginensis and then Rome

>>68938657
>The first cities were phoenicians
What does this mean?

>>68938917
eat shit.

>>68935825
Iberians are unique not mixed, it's as unique as nigger.

>>68935346
If you are talking about an axe design with one hole at each side instead of in the middle, I'd try by all means to disprove any blood relationship with those dudes. It just sucks. It's retarded. A hole in the middle is the way to go.

>>68938939
phoenicians were traders from territories north of egypt
they came here long time ago

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>>68938997
>he needs a hole in his axehead

Get on my level pleb

>>68939020
And?
Traders came from everywhere to anywhere, they aren't the peoples of the place, whites who move to Nigeria aren't Nigerians.

>>68939065
since when is that bronze

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>>68939114
>he unironically uses bronze tools

It's the current year BC bro bronze is a meme it will never catch on

>>68939227
should I sell all my stock on that now then?

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>>68939317
Yeah if I were you I'd drop the arsenical bronze stock and invest in corded ware and bell beakers

>>68931149
I read about people in the saarland where I live kidnapping people from the flat lands and eating them back home.

>Cannibal feels.

>>68931767
Ooh, they do?

>>68932855
Word.

France backstabbed everyone.

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>>68929967
Spaniards are the proud descendants of visigoths, and they are just as Germanic as Germans

>>68939921
Yes :^)))

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first population in spain was a nordic/balcan people related