>free healthcare >best literacy rates in western hemisphere

>>67976184
Good post

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>criticize your un-elected leader
>get imprisoned

cool

>>67976184
A dead tyrant is the best tyrant. Communism is a scam.

Gommunism starved 7 million of my countrymen. Fuck you, OP.

>>67976294
>country
No such thing

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>>67976312
this.

#nosuchthingasborders

>>67976184
Castro organized the Cuban people to shake off a brutal and oppressive dictatorship. That's good. It established another less brutal dictatorship, perhaps more oppressive, and much more lasting (Batista 7 years, Castro 57 and adds and continues). That's bad. He said he intended to give Cubans control over their future. That's good. In reality, he banished democracy and crushed all the dissent by naming himself the only authorized designer of the future of Cubans. That's bad. He tried to give citizens power over the economy to build their wealth. That's good. But what he did was to become the most terrible supercapitalist, sole owner of companies, sole producer, sole employer, sole publisher of books and journals, sole distributor of goods, sole means of communication. That's bad. He intended to give Cubans rights and freedoms. That's good. He did not give them rights and he restricted freedoms. That's bad. It made great efforts to improve certain internationally relevant indicators of well-being (infant mortality, education, literacy, health). That's good. He did it at the expense of the happiness of millions and with contradictory procedures like giving education more indoctrination, literacy but controlling what people read, and healing without resources and without scientific rigor. That's bad.
He claimed that he was looking for the happiness of his people. That's good. In fact, he sought his political whims and promoted a net balance of unhappiness. That's bad.
I think the bad is much more than the good. That it could be worse, as many people say, that he could, for example, have tortured and killed wholesale and did not do it, but not being the worse of all is not a virtue.

>"COMMUNISM MADE CUBANS' LIVES BETTER GAIS, LOOK AT THE LITERACY AND HEALTHCARE"
>gdp per capita literally less than an eight of that of the us
>it's less than mexico's
>cuba can't run an economy for its life
>tries to make up for this by brutally crushing dissent, especially when Fidel was president
>only survived by crying to momma USSR
>still the least free country in the western hemisphere, even with such competitors as venezuela because at least venezuela elects its leaders
>massive community of people that have left for the US because Castro literally killed their families or tried to
>celebration from Cubans when he kicks the bucket

>liberals still love him "buh-buh-but educations and fuh-fuh-free healthcares"
predictable

>>67976360
Lest we also forget, he funded terrorism and insurgencies around the globe and allowed the Soviet Union to use Cuba as a giant aircraft carrier 90 miles from the US.

The guy was Moscow's attack dog, their pitbull to advance Soviet imperialism in the third world.

>>67976398
>Least free
Haiti

>>67976416
>Lest we also forget, he funded terrorism and insurgencies around the globe
Yeah who would do such a thing.

>>67976426
Haiti's undoubtedly waaaaay poorer and the country's a shitshow, but at least it has elections sometimes, and the sheer depths of repression don't so as far as Cuba's.

>>67976294
I think you mean a variation of authoritarian socialism. Communism has never been used before. Being as it means there is no currency, state or classes, it's economy would be very different and I doubt it could ever survive in an individual country, as everyone else would stick with capitalism of some sort. How does one trade with the rest of the world without currency or aligning economic strictures?

>>67976294
what the fuck does your country have to do with this? fuck off

>>67976360
Only post making this thread worth. A virtue, dare I say.

>>67976184
>actual Cubans consider him a monster who created an island prison, which is why half or something of the population lives in Florida now
>some white boy from a comfy upper middle class background whose parents paid for him to learn about Marxism in college tells otherwise

>>67976426
Also, you know, they don't jail your ass for dissent.

>>67976184

He did some good things, but he also did some pretty shitty things as well. He became a fucking dickhead in his later years as opposed to his revolutionary ones.

t. anarchist

>>67976472
>Mirror, mirror in the wall...

>>67976472
Funny that when Assad and Pinochet come up this standard seems strangely ignored.

IRA, PLO, Shining Paths, those dudes in Angola...geez, you name the terror group and Cuba and Libya used to fund it back in the day. Of course all with Moscow being the puppetmaster behind the curtain.

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>>67976464
Because my country experienced the "blessing" of communism.

>>67976537

One of my favourite people there was Ukranian. Nestor Mahkno. I understand your rage against the Bolsheviks and their manufactured famines. Nestor was pissed off at them as well.

Fuck Authoritarian commies.

>>67976502
And in the case of edgy Mexicans, they also ignore Porfirio Díaz, who was much worse than Castro, and Castro was pretty fucking bad.

>>67976472

In that case, the same standard must be applied to Pinochet.

>>67976602
ok

>>67976579
Castro definitely worse because communists aren't content with mere dictatorship, but completely remaking and tearing down society. Franco didn't completely gut Spain's culture the way Mao did with China's

>>67976294
Why didn't they get something to eat lmao
What idiots

>>67976602
>>67976502
It's not like the existence of anti-communist repressive dictators makes Castro even slightly better.

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>>67976184
>>free healthcare
Well, you get what you put in

>>67976629
>Franco didn't completely gut Spain's culture
American "education" at work. Guess why the Basque fucking loathe him.

>>67976472
>Cubans
Americans of Cuban-descents*
>>67976504
Phew!
At least the USA did not did the same thing in Central America and in Middle East

>>67976643
If you act like "them", how are you so sure you are "better"?

>>67976621
No. There was also Venezuela, and Brasil. Not ok at all.

>>67976667
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

>>67976643
No it just makes you crocodile teared hypocrites hard to take seriously.

>>67976184
Why are so many Cubans apparently dancing on his grave then? Genuine question, I don't really know what to think of that guy

>>67976683
It was irony, m8

>>67976719
>Cubans
Americans of Cuban-descent*

>>67976745
why are so many Americans of Cuban-descent are apparently dancing in his grave then?

>>67976676
Getting a little tripped up on my wording here. It is "ok" to acknowledge terrible dictators for what they were. Their rule was certainly not "ok". Venezuela's a particularly odd choice, though, what with Chavez being most certainly not an American puppet.

As for your other point, I find it a little bizarre -- I certainly wasn't alive in the 70s, so the "you" there doesn't make a lot of sense, and just because the USA was responsible for dictators in Latin America does not justify the actions of the dictators we were not responsible for. Two wrongs don't make a right, and you can ask questions about who was "better" all you want, it doesn't actually change the fact that Castro was a dictator and also terrible.

>>67976687
You're a presumptious little cunt aren't you?

>>67976687
This is a little funny because from this angle you're the one who looks like a hypocrite. I acknowledge openly that the United States was responsible for dictators, but I've got the audacity to question a communist one, and that is unforgivable. Nevermind that you're pretty much acknowledging with your very own "BUT AMERICA DID DICTATORS TOO" that Castro was one (wherein lies the hypocrisy).

>>67976785
Please do not feed the RIDF proxy bot. It is neither kind nor necessary.

>>67976785
>Two wrongs don't make a right
That's exactly what I was trying to point, really. Thanks for understanding.

>>67976184
Hello r*ddit

>>67976818
b-but then I actually have to work on my assignment for my French course

>>67976643

No. But if they are dictators that commit human rights violations then they must be equally lauded and hated. No exceptions.

>>67976811
I'm speaking more to the board at large. Sorry if you felt I was targeting you specifically. If you're being balanced that's fine.

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>>67976184

>>67976184
He wasn't perfect and he was a dictator, but think about it like this: when the earthquake struck the region a few years ago, all money went to Hait. Even though Cuba was closer to the seismic center. All because the Cubans were more or less able to take care of things themselves.

>>67976398
Question: how long did America downright blockade Cuba?
>only survived by crying to momma USSR
See? You implicitly admit it yourself: without the USSR, America would've deposed him for a leader whose loyalty they could buy.

>>67976829
Oh, alright. It's my view that what the United States did in Latin America and the repression that it was responsible for is the country's greatest shame.

But I still really hate Castro.

>>67976785

>two wrongs don't make a right

good. So we can establish that Pinochet and Castro sucked

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Reminder

Concerning the Facts and Consequences of the Tragic Death of President John F. Kennedy
November 23rd, 1963

>As Marxist-Leninists, we know that the role of man is a relative role in each historical epoch, in each society, at each given moment, and we should know the role that man plays in each society. And above all it is a question of elemental principle: we do not hate men, we hate systems.
>We would be happy at the death of a system; the disappearance of a system would always make us happy. The victory of a revolution always makes us happy.
>The death of a man, even though this man may be our enemy, does not make us happy. In the first place, this should be our attitude as a matter of principle.
>And further it is very characteristic of us Cubans, of Latins, of Spanish-Americans- who are a mixture of races with certain characteristics - that death always ends our animosity. We always bow with respect in the face of death, even though it may be the death of an enemy.

-Fidel Castro

Sometimes during the Cold War, the US supported repressive leaders out of political expediency, but at the end of the day we always come down on the side of democracy. As the Cold War came to a close at the end of the 80s, Washington withdrew support for most such regimes, which led to the fall of Pinochet, Suharto, Ceausescu, Stroessner, and others.

I've never heard Russia denounce Castro, in fact Putin just called him a great friend of the Russian people and a champion of democracy or some crud like that.

>>67976860

good, plenty of other people from the left wing political spectrum who hate him too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkNDHW3nog&t=8s

>>67976868
t. please don't bomb us, Americans we had nothing to do with assassinating Kennedy I swear

>>67976868

Well how nice of him

>>67976858
embargo=/=blockade
If your regime is basically entirely focused around "FUCK THE US FUCK THE US FUCK THE US" then maybe lack of trade from the US is reasonable, huh?

And yeah, that's pretty much what I said. But, again, this doesn't somehow justify any of the repression or atrocity that Castro was responsible for.

>>67976858
>Question: how long did America downright blockade Cuba?

Too bad, Castro should have thought about that before >>67976416

There are consequences to bad behavior.

>>67976876
Am I being tricked? Look up US support in Indonesia.

>>67976459
>Gomunism hab never been try :DDDD
Kill yourself.

>>67976898
Yeah because after the Cuban missile crisis that was totally going to happen.

>>67976629
Porfirio Díaz was the direct cause for the death of millions and the slavery of the entire low class of the country, plus the genocide of the Yaquis. """His achievments""" are nothing.

In 30 years of power he did much more damage than Castro in 50, and I already said Castro was terrible.

Also, you are defending Franco? Why?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francoist_Spain
>there were more than 270,000 men and women held in prisons, and some 500,000 had fled into exile.
>more than 200,000 Spaniards died in the first years of the dictatorship, from 1940–42, as a result of political repression, hunger, and disease related to the conflict.

That is way more than the fucking Drug War.

>hurr durr lets shit on Castro (ok) but lets forget about Franco, Pinochet, Batista, Díaz, etc, (not ok)

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>>67977024
Did castas still applied during his regime?

>>67976472
>actual Cubans
You mean the """"Cuban""""-Americans

>>67977024
To add on: You notice how former communist countries are nearly all shit nowadays? Now you notice how Spain and Portugal, both states with long-lived fascist governments, are also shittier than all the other Western European countries? It isn't a coincidence.

>>67977152
naturally, people who literally fled repression from cuba/their children don't count

only people in a largely closed country that face potential literal repercussions for dissent do

>>67977194
No disporashits do not count.
It's like if I pretended I had any valid opinion on the Brexit.

>>67976919
Suharto fell in 1998, but the US had pulled away from supporting him for some years at that point.

>>67977286
That's not a particularly fitting comparison. You're comparing groups that directly fled repression (and their children) from Cuba and the death of the man that did it to them, and... a modern political decision completely divorced from the descendants generations and generations ago that moved from Britain to Australia (or were shipped there).

>>67977161
Spain and Portugal were poor well before Franco happened.

>>67977372
The difference is that fascism kept Spain and Portugal that way whereas other countries got rich.

>>67976416
>Lest we also forget, he funded terrorism and insurgencies around the globe
>Regen
>Bushs
>Obama
>Clintons
Not much room to talk.

>>67977024
Diaz was around in the 19th century; that was before Woodrow Wilson came along with the whole let's make the world safe for democracy schtick.

Wilson meanwhile absolutely refused to support Huerta during the revolution, even though American business interests loudly demanded he so. He just said "Nah, that dude's a dictator and besides, it's their country, they should sort out their own mess."

>>67977396
Germany and Italy are not poor-ass countries despite also fascism.

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>>67976398
>gdp per capita literally less than an eight of that of the us

It's got a 50th of the population what the fuck do you expect

>it's less than mexico's

Again what the fuck do you expect

>cuba can't run an economy for its life

Try running an economy when the largest most powerful country in the world makes it illegal to trade with you


>tries to make up for this by brutally crushing dissent, especially when Fidel was president

Didn't happen
>only survived by crying to momma USSR

Forced to be emargo you mean :^)
>still the least free country in the western hemisphere, even with such competitors as venezuela because at least venezuela elects its leaders

Haiti
>massive community of people that have left for the US because Castro literally killed their families or tried to

L@MO expat detected, most cubans fled when batista left because they were embroiled in corruption
>celebration from Cubans when he kicks the bucket

Not relevant

>liberals still love him "buh-buh-but educations and fuh-fuh-free healthcares"
predictable

>Every civilized nation on earth helps the poor with taxes instead of letting them suffer

>DUDE FREE MARKET L@MO THE POOR DESERVE TO DIE IN AGONY FROM EASILY PREVENTABLE DISEASES

>>67977451
They also lasted around ten years to Spain and Portugal's ~fourty. I said long-lasting because believe it or not three or four decades of time matter when you're talking about a country's future prospects.
Germany and Italy got their shit kicked in in WW2, after which point they were made democratic and given lots of American money, aka not fascist.

>>67977362
>I'm butthurt so I'm right
Cuban-Americans are literally the shittest group in the U.S

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>>67976184

He was no cautious reformer.

>>67977478
and it's another episode of "Guy in comfy First World country that never actually experienced communism is absolutely sure that communism is a wonderful thing."

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>>67977552
>It's another subhuman assumes the rest of the world is as savage and inbred as his shithole

>It's another retard thinks free healthcare is communist episode

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>>67977565
he's right, and you are completely fucking analannihilated right now

day of the helicopter soon

>>67977503
>Germany and Italy got their shit kicked in in WW2, after which point they were made democratic and given lots of American money, aka not fascist.

Spain was a US ally from the 50s onward and we invested money there, which was what eventually led to democratization...by Franco's death, they'd become wealthy enough that democracy was possible.

>>67977583
Nice proxy Ivan\

Use your computer skills to do something other than steal credit cards and shitpost

>>67977565
if you want to know why my country is poor, go dig Stalin up from the ground and ask him. people still suffer from communist mindset which keeps us poor and completely corrupt.

>>67977478
>It's got a 50th of the population what the fuck do you expect
Bahamas are waaaay tinier than Cuba, and they absolutely crush their gdp per capita. The biggest gdp per capita is Luxembourg. "Per capita" is a population-scaled metric, which is exactly the point I was making.

>makes it illegal to trade with you
...illegal to trade with you if you're American, and that after constantly attempting to fuck over the United States, triggered by literally stealing American shit. Do you expect them to just hand Cuba shit as they continue to center themselves around opposing the US?

>Forced to by embargo you mean :^)
I'm sure the whole "hates the country we've made it our business to hate and also are also commies" thing didn't have aaanything to do with it.
>>Haiti
freer than Cuba (can actually criticize the government), which is astounding considering how overwhelmingly poor it is

>Every civilized nation on earth helps the poor with taxes instead of letting them suffer
iiincluding the US of A

>DUDE FREE MARKET L@MO THE POOR DESERVE TO DIE IN AGONY FROM EASILY PREVENTABLE DISEASES
it's okay to imply swearing via acronym on 4chan.

also, >DUDE COMMUNISM LMAO PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE DESERVE TO DIE IN AGONY FROM BEING SHUT AWAY IN PRISON OR STRAIGHT HIT-SQUADDED

>>67977508
>if I pretend the guy I'm arguing against is Cuban-American and pretend he's personally offended I can pretend I'm right too

>>67977666
>look I promise I'm not Cuban-American
nice trips though

>>67977587
Right, but the US literally rebuilding the German, Italian, and Japanese governments as democratic from the very start is quite a big part of why they're all G8 countries now, especially because Japan was poor as shit right before WW2 too.

>>67976294
What does Ukraine have to do with Cuba? Cuba has always been officially socialist, never communist. You snow niggers should have resisted your Soviet overlords.

Daily reminder that Castro:

>jailed and shot anyone he didn't like
>drove the entire middle class and anyone with an education out of the country
>allowed the USSR to station nuclear missiles and bomber aircraft 90 miles from the US
>supported communist insurgencies on four continents
>put all homosexuals in jail/work camps because he believed homosexuality was a rudiment of capitalist society
>arranged fake political prisoner amnesties with the US in which he'd dump criminals/homosexuals/mental patients in Florida
>confiscated millions of dollars in US property and assets
>created a Stalinist planned economy where the store shelves are empty and people have three hours of electricity a day
>Cuba in 1958 had 16 prisons containing 4000 inmates, today it has 40 prisons containing 100,000 inmates
>ordinary people are not allowed to own a computer or a phone
>state media is nothing but propaganda attacking the US and praising the glories of Marxism-Leninism

>>67977695
not a drop of latino blood in me, bro, it doesn't take being Cuban to hate communism and Castro

what it takes is a history class

(though maybe when your argument has degenerated to the point of accusing your opponent of belonging to any one category and THEN also taking the logical leap of entirely discounting that category, it has fallen through)

>>67976936
but he's right

>>67977738
the permanently ruling party in Cuba is literally the Communist Party bro, it's failed commie state number #12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Cuba

>>67976876
China was also a US ally in the 70s-80s but that fell apart with the end of the Cold War when we had less use for authoritarian states and also Tiananmen Square.

>>67976184
>except the hospitals were shitty and so bad you had to bring your own sheets. Unless you were a tourist or a higher up in the party.
>Hahahaha keep thinking that
>shitty government housing unless you're high in the party
>Ahahahaha yeah he sent medics to combat ebola. Got a nice fat stipend from the WHO and international good boy points. Meanwhile there was a dengue fever epidemic.
>And became a tourist paradise for the Eternal Leaf. I think we all know that is the worst fate.

t. escaped Cuban with family back on the island

>>67976629
>Franco didn't completely gut Spain's culture
what did he mean by this

>>67976780
Because they are Americans?

>>67976294
cuba has nothing to do with the holodomor

>>67976459
i think the authotarian socialism part is a part of marxism

>>67977356
The guy did do a good job of removing gommie from premises though; Indonesians are up there with Poland for extreme McCarthyism.

Castro literally wanted the Soviets to nuke the US, and would have nuked the US if nukes were given to his possession. I can't understand why even the most contrarian American could support him.

>>67977869
ahaha, believe me, there are plenty of lib and pro-russian americans defending castro

>>67977920
There are more Americans on the opposite side

>>67977969
Well, yeah, that much is (hopefully) true, but it's far from a guarantee that American = hates Castro, when even publications like the NY Times idolize him because he was anti-American and socialist. Cuban-Americans hold a special hatred for him.

>>67978001
Of course they hate him, if I received funding from the CIA I would've probably hated him too

>>67976578
Communism is inheritently authoritanian.
Fuck you and your "elected workers" that take over the collective being able to control every part of the countries and individuals productive output and are surely more virtuous then private busyness because they are workers or some shit.

>>67978044
Do... you think that the CIA is bankrolling the entire Cuban-American population of over a million people?

>>67978044
>anyone that hates communist tyranny must be a CIA plant

+15 Putincoins for this post

>>67978070
Of course I don't, only the more important ones. The rest are buying into the propaganda themselves, much like the Cuban Cubans buy the communist propaganda.

>>67978087
>anyone that hates American tyranny must be Putin supporter
+15 Clintoncoins

>>67978109
What counts as American tyranny, "not letting Serbia kill all the Bosniaks"?

>>67978122
>American education
Serbia had no involvement in the works of Bosnian Serbs, they were even embargoed by Serbia.

Anyways, selective application of the right of self-determination is definitely a form of tyranny.

cuban americans crying about how the dang castros took away their slaves and 50,000 acre plantations never cease to make me smile

>>67978141
>wasn't serbia

>but yes

>>67978153
It amazes me that people actually believe this

>>67978153
Instead the entire island became the Castro brothers' slave plantation. :^)

>>67976719
miami cubans were all rich before the revolution, they hate castro because he wouldn't let them use other cubans for borderline slave labor anymore

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>>67978170
>the Serbs fought for their self-determination, therefore they're the aggressors
Whatever suits your agenda m8

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>>67976184
>there are actual communists on /pol/

Eh, you will learn soon enough about how wrong you are.

>>67978231
Well, I'll actually say this much, if the Bosnian Serbs actually held a referendum for independence instead of a "let's kill all the Bosnians (and Croats if we feel like it) we can" for independence I'd be 100% behind it.

It's just that the whole genocide thing is a dealbreaker.

>>67978287
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Serb_referendum,_1991

Srebrenica happened in 1995. The Republika Srpska was declared in 1992

>>67978213
Remember: When a liberal says "the rich", understand he really means "the middle class". In order to build the new society, you must destroy the middle class, ie. the bourgeois.

>>67978339
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Serb_referendum,_1991
Oh, well I'll admit that I didn't know that. About the most I know from the situation is what I was told of it from my father, who was part of the US forces in Bosnia, so I'm missing some of the context of it, I'm more knowledgeable about the aftermath than anything else.

(The Bosniak genocide is still a bit of a dealbreaker though, Karadzic's Murder Train was rightfully stopped.)

>>67976184
castro was garbage so was guevara

these figures in the 20th century who managed to attain and stay power are so highly overrated. hitler is the best example for it. he had no talent but just was a cringy delusional nerd. same goes for the human trash putin

they all were just assholes.

Cuba is a sad place where old men in undershirts sit around playing dominoes and driving rusted 1955 Buicks. All educated people have long since fled the place, the birthrate is almost nil and abortion and suicide rates are sky-high.

>>67978414
It was, but destruction of the civilian targets and destruction of the democratic rights of the Serbs aren't justified.

I'm surprised this didn't turn into another "Castro is Trudeau's reall father" thread.

>>67977738
>You snow niggers should have resisted your Soviet overlords.
Isn't that exactly what brought about the famine in the first place?

Oh look, it's another "Serb has Russian ballsack in his mouth" thread.

>>67976184
Some people can only be ruled by a benevolent dictator (Franco, Pinochet, Gaddafi, Al Assad, etc.).

>>67978616
>Russia not even mentioned by me
>hurr a Serb sucks Russian dicks guys amirite
I didn't even need to check the flag.