Why European pan-nationalism only comes in it's left-wing

>>67056394
*think

>pan
>nationalism
It's an oxymoron
There's no such thing as a the nation of europe.
Also, most of Europe didn't rule shit, especially eastern europe.

>why dont you love the guys who have been invading you for 2000 years?
Well..

There is no nation of Europe

>>67056496
Well I was talking about Europe as a whole because at the end of the day Europe was divided between few European Superpowers.
>there is no such a thing as nation of Europe
there is no such a thing as Kalmar union yet they tried to achieve it.

Because the rest is inferior. Especially Brussels.

>>67056595
Kalmar Union collapsed for a good reason

>>67056394
>European pan
What the fuck is this shit meme?
Get out.

>>67056615
Is this mentality what is responsible for last decades under US, or Russian rule in Europe?

>>67056630
Yeah but it still served a reason so no one can really tell me there is no such a thing as United european state because EU tries to do it consistently.
>>67056670
>what is EU?

>>67056496
>There's no such thing as a the nation of europe.

>There's no such thing as a nation of Germany, there's only Saxony, Bavaria, Prussia, Austria...
>There's no such thing as a nation of Italy, there's only Lombardy, Veneto, Tuscany, Lazio, ...

>>67056692
You can have a state but it does not mean there is a nation. It is like how there was a Soviet Union, but the Soviet People were just a figment of the propagandists mind.

>>67056716
>There's no such thing as a nation of Italy, there's only Lombardy, Veneto, Tuscany, Lazio, ...
This one is true. Italy is not a real country.

>>67056630
Yes, Denmark, the root of all evil

>>67056595
There's a difference between nation and country.
Nationalism is for nations. Same people, same language, same culture, same history, etc.
Patriotism is for countries. Whatever they are made of.

It's easier to blur the lines between one and the other if the nations of your country are similiar to each other. See Spain or Italy or Germany.

Sometimes in works (Germany), sometimes it doesn't, (Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia).

But you can't expect Finns and Portuguese to see themselves as sister nations just because they happen to live in the same continent.

>>67056720
Well you can say that.
Still that doesn't mean there aren't European pan-nationalists.
EU tries to integrate into one country although they would say thats bullshit but we can see it time and time again - for example - European Army.

I woulnd't be suprised if Europe was a actual nation something similiar to USA because of EU like 100 years from now on.

>>67056787
>he doesn't know what pan-nationalism is
Yet Scandinavian pan-nationalists ARE for Kalmar union although Scandinavian countries don't speak the same language and don't have the same culture.

There is no such a thing as pan-patriotism.

>sometimes it doesn't ( czechoslovakia )
Reasons for that were different than you might think

>>67056952
USA is not an actual nation. USA is fractured and consists of dozens of nations. Most famous one being the Dixie-Yankee divide.

>>67056952
>a actual
I meant *an

>>67056980
Well, it's a still administrative structure that acts like one and people somewhat can relate to it ( from what I've seen ).

By Pan-Nationalism I didn't meant one centralized Europe I meant Federation of course ( because let's face it - centralized europe wouldn't even work out )

>>67056496
this

>>67056952
Yes, Scandinavian nationalism exists because they are sister nations.
They have shared history.
Similiar cultures.
Similiar languages.
Similiar religion.
etc.
It's the most you can call a pan-"nationalism".

It doesn't work in Europe because you're trying to create a shared something among people that share very little.

>oh yeah, us Portuguese have so much in common with Finns, for exampl-

What is European nationalism? What is it that all the european peoples identify as that no other outside of europe does?

Just because some countries of western europe ruled the world doesn't mean that the rest did, or that Czechia had colonies, so what do you mean by "our colonies", or what does ruling the world create a shared national identity?

>>67056952
>European pan-nationalists.
we call them shit nutjobs

>>67056716
you have some really bad reading comprehension.

>>67056394
> European superpowers ruled litterally every continent and now we are ruled by our ex-colonies and gave them freedom just "because".
ebin :D

>>67056394
>
WE

>>67056394
Vy ste niekedy aj mali kolónie vole?

>>67056787
Czechoslovakia collapsed because it was deformed into a communist monstrosity and some very greedy politicians wanted to have more wealth for themselves. We never hated each other, don't compare this to Yugoslavia. We are not Balkans.

>>67056394
Don't know where you've been but the age of colonies is over for everybody.
>b-but w-we
The worlds getting smaller and sooner or later when the rest of the developing world catches up the need to wage wars won't even be practical anymore.

I'm not saying we should have a full open the borders shit but the world's becoming more global thanks to modern technology and closing the gap more and more.

This >>67057283 guy is also right. I don't mind if you come or live in my country Czechbro. I don't mind if anybody does as long as they're a skilled worker and will actually WORK. But I do prefer immigrants to be British/scot/irish>>>>>> before anything else.

Hope that helps.

>>67056716
Fuck Italy, I want the Papal States back

>>67056394
I am not a left-wing socialist and I also don't wanna give up the German nation, but I understand the advantages of a pan-European nation. China, the USA and Russia are big players and there is no proper European conterweight. I would like to have a strong and proud European partnership to remove any non-European influence on us.

The problem is that submissive, criminal asslickers currently run the EU and that they're not interested in making us independent from the USA at all. The EU is based on transatlantic partnership and doesn't want to keep the European diversity alive, but rather adjust everything to their weird, utopian and semi-fascistic beliefs. This construct has already been ideological poisoned.

>>67057931
>I am not a left-wing socialist and I also don't wanna give up the German nation, but I understand the advantages of a pan-European nation. China, the USA and Russia are big players and there is no proper European counterweight. I would like to have a strong and proud European partnership to remove any non-European influence on us.
Wouldn't a pan-europeanism union have Russia involved (and most likely dominate)?
And what non-Europeanism influences are you talking about? Americanization of the world?

>>67056787
>Yugoslavia
Nationalism ended it, you nincompoop.

>>67058034
Wasn't it communism?

>>67057726
Fuck you, I don't. Papal states were possibly the worst pre-unitary state.

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>all these butthurt nationalists in this thread

>>67058108
Yugoslavia had the best communist system. People there actually lived well. No, it was nationalism. And a big dose if emigre and CIA involvement.

>>67058108
Nationalism emerged because of the failure of communism

>>67058262
lol no

>>67056980
>Dixie-Yankee divide.
they are both the same nation

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>>67058241
oy vey bro! Just give up your national identity to form some bland uncoheric mess of a union that'll collapse within twenty years! Don't question it...

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>>67058360
MAD

>>67058312
>Nationalism emerged because of the failure of communism
So basically there were all for pan-whatever until the going got tough?

>Yugoslavian """people"""

>>67058019
>Wouldn't a pan-europeanism union have Russia involved
Russia is just too big. I have no idea how to involve them.

>And what non-Europeanism influences are you talking about? Americanization of the world?
Yes, the Americanisation is a big aspect. But I also mean China, as they start buying European companies and airports, etc.
And the massive amount of foreign, non-European people who migrate to Europe. I am not sure if they're compatible with Europe in such high numbers.
I talk about cultural and economic independence.

>>67058430
*they

>>67058312
You think otherwise because you Slovenes live better now. You thought yourself as "creating all the wealth for Yugoslavia" and you are glad to have it all for yourself. A Serb or a Croat most likely has a different opinion. You know, my father visited Yugoslavia back in the day, you have NO IDEA how good you had it compared to us.

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>WHY PAN-NATIONALIST AREN'T NATIONALISTS??

>>67058430
No but nobody would've done anything because thousands of people were killed after WW2 for opposing communists.

>le funny australian banter
Kill yourself

>>67058344
Not really. It is very arguable they are two separate nations.

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>>67058360
>oy vey bro! Just give up your state's identity to form some bland uncoheric mess of a commonwealth that'll collapse within twenty years! Don't question it...

>>67058486
Given the amount of collaborationist Ustashe, Chetnik and Domobranec scum, Tito should have killed more if anything. Some nations need an iron fist to be civilized.

>>67058486
>No but nobody would've done anything because thousands of people were killed after WW2 for opposing communists.
Should've manned up and fought harder.

>Kill yourself
Triggered? :^)

>>67058475
We could've lived much better without communism.

>>67058551
They didn't stop at the Quislings. They killed civilians, opponents and even their own people.

>>67058544
The states didn't have any identity though. At least not compared to the centuries of culture and history developed by European nations.

In the Federation of Australia there wasn't an issue of "Oh, we're culturally different to that lot in Victoria", it was just a concern about some parts of the country being able to dominate national politics. Which ended up happening anyway.

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>>67056394
Because there is no history or tradition of a single European nation. Why would people who want to preserve their own race/culture support such an idea?

There are rational arguments for Europa, as >>67057931 points out, but rationality is as far as it goes. Nationalists don't have an emotional attachment to Europe as they do to their own countries. It also doesn't help that the current attempt at Europa is the EU, which is pretty much the antithesis of right-wing nationalist politics and poisons the whole concept.

>>67058544
Tell me anon. What's the difference between your average bloke in Sydney and your average bloke in Northern territory??

Different ethnicity? Nope. Different language? Nope. Different culture? Nope.

>>67058688
Aren't they all Chinese?

>>67058443
>Russia is just too big. I have no idea how to involve them.
Imo it'd be how America and the other Northern states will be in a decade or so. It'll be an 'alliance' but it'll pretty much just be America running the show completely.

>Yes, the Americanisation is a big aspect. But I also mean China, as they start buying European companies and airports, etc.And the massive amount of foreign, non-European people who migrate to Europe. I am not sure if they're compatible with Europe in such high numbers.I talk about cultural and economic independence.
That's true. You should set up a vetoing system similar to what we do desu.

>>67058034
>tfw we all want another yugo but no one wants to make one

>>67058729
Don't be racist. We're all abos actually.

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because yurope is a continent of predatory jackals,bandits and blood lusting murderers always looking for their next victim and the left wing suits and nourishes these features just fine.

>>67058783
Maybe bosnians and yugo immigrant scum worldwide. Fuck off

>>67058629
Would you even want another Yugoslavia?

>>67058822
>le mountain jew

And you're saying that I'm scum?

>>67058860
No

>>67058898
So you are an immigrant, then? Maybe you turks can create your own Yugoslavia and leave us out of it

>>67056394
On identity, it is easier for conservatives to arouse local feelings rather than an european feelings. What would be conservatives if they tended to focus on creating a new, large-scale european identity ?

Nowadays the idea of european "nationalism" as you call it is not appealing anymore. But when EU economics were doing good, right-wing politicians had no problem in going further towards a political integration in the EU. Conservatives are maybe more pragmatic.

>>67056716
>Bavaria
>part of the Federal Republic of Germany
>part of the The European Union
>part of The United Nations
Welp, I guess the whole planet is one country

>>67058241
Says Gregorz Braun: the country.

>>67057931
>Russia are big players and there is no proper European conterweight.
Russia is in Europe
....idiot. You're just butthurt because Germany isn't this global superpower you're talking about, so you pretend that Russia isn't European.

>>67059055
this shithole is infested with leftist garbage to the brim


Please NATO

bomb the fuck out of warsaw again

>>67057931
> China, the USA and Russia are big players and there is no proper European counterweight.
I doubt there's any sense in being a counterweight to Russia — we've got an extremely inefficient economy, we depend on the EU a lot (mostly since we failed to discover other markets where we are being really able to compete with local players, like Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan etc) and we aren't as sustainable and all-sufficient (on a certain level though) as the Soviet Union.

I'm not intending to express hatred towards my country or humiliate it, but we are unable to deserve the big player title, honestly.

>>67059190
There's a possibility of the fact you chose a lesser evil.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperium_Europa

>The stated goal of the party is to unite all European natives under one flag, hence the name "Imperium Europa", leading to "a Europid bond forged through Spirituality closely followed by Race, nurtured through High culture, protected by High Politics, enforced by The Elite."

>>67059288
>mostly since we failed to discover other markets where we are being really able to compete with local players, like Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan etc
What did he mean by this?

>>67058494
no it isnt

just minor regional differences that are obvious in a country so large

>>67059072
>Russia is in Europe
And also in Asia. And the Russian people are not Europeans only. They are multi-ethnical.
How would it be possible to integrate Russia into a pan-European nation? I doubt they actually are interested in that by the way.

>>67059288
Apparently you have enough power to annex a part of another country and come away with it. Russia appears to be a pretty sovereign country. I don't think your political elite would interested be in joining.
I don't say that we should consider you as an enemy or that you are a danger to us, but you kinda have your own realm.

>>67059656
Autism. He's a Hitler lover, no less.

>>67060108
>I doubt they actually are interested in that by the way.
What! Just ask your average Russkie here or on /pol/ and they'll tell you otherwise Hans.

>>67060599
>Just ask your average Russkie here or on /pol/ and they'll tell you otherwise
The average Russkie on /pol/ doesn't represent the view of the Russian political elite.
Anway.. of course I am not an expert, but do ordinary people from Vladivostok have the same needs and demands like ordinary people from France for example? Would it smart to put them into one nation? It's is a complete different region. It's impossible to manage such a wide space I guess. When it comes to the question of establishing a pan-European nation you simply can't involve full Russia.

>>67056394

Richard Spenser has actually written about that ("Euro-scepticism scepticism"), and the need to think in terms of civilizations and large racial blocks rather than resort to petty ethnic nationalism


However I think that the EU in particular is hopeless and cannot be reformed, it has to be destroyed in order for something better to arise

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>>67056394
Because European pan-nationalism is idiotic nonsense and leftists are nonsensical idiots.

Europian Grandiose delusions make me feel dizzy. who the fuck started dreaming this shit?

There is no European pan-nationalism.
EU exists as a framework to preserve small countries from abuse by large ones. Sort of like the >hre.
EU is also not left wing, if you look at the makeup of EU parliament it majority right.

>>67062566

>EU is also not left wing, if you look at the makeup of EU parliament it majority right.

It's globalist and anti-White a.k.a neo-liberal left wing.

>>67062685
>Blah, blah /pol/ memes blach, blach
Neoliberalism is right wing, read a fucking wiki page you monkey.

>>67062791

It's culturally extremely left wing, and culture is more important than economics, you plebbit imbecile

>>67062254
Instead of making the EU which is bound to fail, we should have made smaller unions within Europe. For example a Slavblock with Russia, Romania, Ukraine, etc. which would have Russia as its economic power house
Then a Romanian block which has Spain, Portugal and Italy.
Then a germanic block with Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, etc. Which would be most powerful block in Europe.
Then a Baltic block.

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>>67063649
>Romania is not in the Romanian bloc, but in the Slavic one

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>>67063649
but i like the idea in general

>>67063649

Yes, and the blocks should have a non-aggression pact between themselves.

>>67057548
Jo, tebe

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>>67063724
That looks fine to me, Time to get the rightful byzantine clay back to greeks.

>>67063724
No way Germanics would be able to secure so much lands from the Slavs

Recent history actually showed that Germanics keep losing even their core land