>Are you an abolitionist or not? >flag >opinion I'm

>>66363002
>Implying there are mines on japan

>>66363002
When you factor in the costs of security, training, food, lodging, and so on, use of prisoners for on-site labor is not cost effective compared to employing a voluntary worker. Prisoners are only useful for unskilled labor applied to tasks that can be accomplished in one room, removing the necessity of secure transportation.

Personally I think that the death penalty should apply categorically to anyone who receives a cumulative sentence exceeding 35 years, or who would be released past retirement age after a sentence of more than 5 years.

The purpose of prison is to remove the dregs of society to somewhere they aren't harmful. The only reason they're ever to be released is so they can make themselves useful. If a prisoner will never be useful, he should be executed immediately rather than waste time and money supporting a life sentence.

Further, execution by lethal injection should be done away with. It's expensive, time consuming, and it's a needlessly elaborate process with too many points of failure and which makes the execution process vulnerable to material shortages from vendor refusal.
Executions should simply consist of one rifle round to the head, a method that is quick, cheap, and inherently painless. Arguments against this are rooted in squeamishness, not reason.

the state is there to protect you
not murder you
ignoring that principle is savagery
there is no justice in murder

The state is fallible. It should not get to choose if someone deserves to die.

They should be required to live in a FEMA trailer in Oklahoma.

>>66366245
2 points of disagreement.

>The purpose of prison is to remove the dregs of society to somewhere they aren't harmful.

1.their suppose to take the dregs and reform them to make them better people, not simply imprison and release when the time is up. THAT is the failure of our prison system

2. excution is often critized because of the pcernt of innocent people that end up in prison and thus the percent of innocent people that would die from the death penalty given that no system is perfect.

Only two points i want to make.

>>66363002

I think that the death penalty is only acceptable for extremely heinous crimes. Such as extreme serial killers, people who commit crimes against humanity, etc.

>>66366398
would you want me dead if i killed your mother?

>>66366466
from a revenge standpoint sure, but justice is suppose to exist without that sort of emotion.

It leads to faulty judgement and thus its not justice anymore.

there have been murderer's that do their time, get released and then actually get a job and become good people.

>>66366561
justice is a meme

eye for eye, tooth for tooth. I'd never let my mothers/fathers killer get out of jail and live a normal life

This kind of detachment amongst people is mind-boggling to me... "YES, he killed my father, BUT, he might become a different man in jail and get his life on track!!!!"

Why would i want him to get his life on track? years in jail is not enough for taking someones life

>>66366364
On your first point I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I do not consider a human life to have inherent value; only potential value which is actualized through one's actions. Someone whose actions are harmful to others is without value. It is not the government's job to turn trash into gold, because self-betterment is the foremost duty of all humans. The fact they've become criminals indicates they have failed in this duty, or are incapable of improvement and are therefore a lost cause.

To your second point, I agree entirely that unjust convictions are a problem. However, they are a problem of the judicial system as a whole, while I was commenting just on executions. Reform on the death penalty would of course need to be accompanied by reform of the judicial system to properly utilize and support the changes made, and to minimize false convictions. I do ultimately believe, however, that while perfectly just and accurate sentencing is something to be eternally worked towards, there does come a point where a given number of mistakes in the process is acceptable, if undesirable, in exchange for the gains made by facilitating a greater number of accurate executions. We should strive always towards the ideal, but acknowledge the usefulness of the flawed intermediary steps in the meantime.

>>66367140
your first point is probably what needs to be discussed more often.

Not whether "is it okay to kill someone?"

but "are prison's suppose to reform people or just punish people?"

then we can talk about the death penalty after we have some sort of consenus on that. Nationwide, that is.

>>66367231
As I see it the question of whether or not to reform is rooted in the value of a life. If lives are valuable, then to kill is wasteful, and therefore reform is the better use of resources.

For a nation with a smaller population or more urgent manpower needs, reform may be the superior option. But for the US it it exists today, I believe we would lose more work to the reforming process than the resulting citizens would produce. Therefore, it is more efficient to abstain.

>>66366872
Average third world shithole logic tbqh
Letting emotions control them like women
A functioning justice system is essential to a functioning society, which none of the shitholes people like you are from are.

>>66368092
>emotions are for wimminz!!!
>logic trumps everything!! *opens rationalwiki.org*

>>>/r/atheism

and step on it, spineless nerdic subhuman

>>66363002
I agree, death penalty should be banned (it's too easy to abuse it when the government is corrupt or the law is dysfunctional), but slavery should be reintroduced. Only as a punishment though.
Why kill some pedo serial killer when he could work his ass off building roads instead?

>>66366298
>the state is there to protect you
Spot the cognitively impaired marxist.
>there is no justice in murder
"Justice" is an euphemism for revenge. An eye for an eye, that´s what human "justice" boils down to when push comes to shove.

>>66368092
>Letting emotions control them like WOMEN
Every society is built on emotions - ours on the socialist variety.
>A functioning justice system is essential to a functioning society, which none of the shitholes people like you are from are.
You have no business talking about the issue at hand. The Finnish legal code does not contain a single hint of "justice"; tax evaders serve more time in this country than those convicted of manslaughter, rape and assault.

>>66363002
>I'm an abolitionist. Because a murderer should work for a dangerous job like mine cleaning without salary
how will you make them do it? what punishment will refusal get?

>>66363002
Studies seem to indicate that death penalty is more expensive than life imprisonment, so I'm against the death penalty.
Since you mentioned it, I'm also against forced labour, because it's bad for the economy. Forced labour only ever makes sense in situations of manpower scarcity.

>>66369279
Just false what you said about justice.

There is the part of vengeance. But for example in Germany you also have the concept of prevention. This prevention (general and individual) influences a possible criminal. If you would kill him you could not change him to the better.

>>66366245
>The only reason they're ever to be released is so they can make themselves useful.
That's definitely an approach

>>66369626
> But for example in Germany you also have the concept of prevention.
A concept conjured up to satisfy the needs of industrial-technological society.
>This prevention (general and individual) influences a possible criminal.
The law book does not hinder anyone from committing a criminal act.
>If you would kill him you could not change him to the better.
People don´t change.

>>66369802
>people don't change

There is a lot of information about reformed prisoners getting a job and giving money to charity, helping the families they hurt, etc etc etc.

at least don't be retarded if you're going to debate this.

>>66369802
Books don't stop people. The state though has the force to stop people from doing wrong. Also an basic rule system is found in every society. People can change. Or did you never changed your opinion? Are you still the same person as you were as a child ?

>>66363002

Yes.
The state should never have this power.

If somebody is too dangerous to be alive, assassinate him, remove him, whatever.

But it must not be sanctioned by laws or by the state.

>>66369525
Soldiers observe them. If they didn't do that, they would be killed with gun.

>>66363002
Only If extreme serial killers or molesting children

>>66363002

All in all one round of 7,62x39 is a lot cheaper than full upkeep for decades.

I'd still have death penalty war-time only and only for treason.

>>66363002
Holy Roman Empire of German Nations

I am an abolitionist.
A state shall not have the power to legaly execute people.

>>66374090
>All in all one round of 7,62x39 is a lot cheaper than full upkeep for decades.

Justice system is too expensive. So is your education.

>>66368092
Damn. Harsh, direct, precise.

That's some high quality btfoing.

>>66363002
>Are you an abolitionist or not?
Not, it should exist, for the sick fucks who deserve to die like dogs

>flag
Paki-chan

>opinion
as above