Which civilization have produced the best swords? pls no meme-spouting,

>>66201508
I would go with cave dwarfs.
Maybe elves if magic is allowed.

>>66201508
Best sword is the rapier of course, so it would be Western European countries like Spain, France, England, Italy, and Germany.

>>66201508
Scotland.
Slicing and beheading is for shitskins, Impaling is where it's at.

>>66201508
There are no objectively best swords.

It is hard to argue against the katana.

>>66202457
No, it's not.
Making one requires lots of time and labor. It's prone to bending. Resharpening means repolishing whole sword by skilled artisan. It's short for a two handed weapon and provides minimal hand protection with its disc guard.

Why did Japanese ww2 pilots carry swords?

>>66201508
We have the best steal,
thus the best swords

>>66202457
>Two handed
>No handguard
>Can't hold a shield, buckler or fighting dagger for defense
>Cutting devotes yourself into the attack and can easily be blocked, avoided or countered
>Loved by weaboos because they saw their favorite anime swordsman slice through a building

Katanas are shit and Samurai are just entitled nobles who get to rape and plunder in the name of their lord.

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>>66201508
glorious lech szabla
incrusted over 1000 times

cutting through german tanks like butter

>>66201508
That would be objectively Syria

Katanas were not made for real warfare. They were made for policing peasents.

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pic rel > katana

>>66202263
This or
>>66202331

>>66203768
And 1v1 duels with other aristocrats wearing either very light armor or no armor at all.

But yeah they are massively overrated. Basically useless against an armored opponent, and god forbid you try fighting someone with a shield (which luckily there were none of in pre-modern Japan).

>>66203432
>>66203599
>>66203768
>>66203783

>fedora rage

Literally like shooting fish in a barrel.

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>>66201508
roman gladius

shorter swords and shield = win

battles go for days sometimes and you wouldn't even be able to lift your arm if you go with a heavier weapon

that said swords are meme weapons, in ancient battles javalines, spears and bows were the actual weapons people were both likely to use and also by and the most effective

swords have always been a status symbol and something to show off with desu

>>66203929
Realizing that katanas are shit is not fedora, it's having basic knowledge and common sense

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>>66203929

wut
I just posted superior sword
without any rage

>>66203783
Almost all swords was better than katana, it knows everyone, except weaboos.

>>66204021
swords are shit in general

expensive, hard to replace, hard to maintain

stop being a nerd, sharp sticks are wear it's at

>>66203887
>someone with a shield (which luckily there were none of in pre-modern Japan)
does Japan not have trees?

>>66204117
Sharp sticks are for peasants. The best weapons are the ones that are inordinately hard to learn how to use effectively and that have no other utility besides being weapons.

Swords are the patrician's weapon.

>>66201508
>Which civilization have produced the best swords?
B

Rapier beats pretty much everything.
Their only downside was that they required insane skill to kill the opponent.
Spear was cheap and effective when used in great numbers but got countered hard by Zweihänder.

>>66204247
>Rapier beats pretty much everything.
too heavy for what it is, got replaced by ever smaller long stabbing only swords until we get to the 20th century and short swords didn't even have blades. just a sharp tip

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>edged weapons
nice meme senpai-alam

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>>66201508
Latin civilisation, aka Poles. Somewhat this >>66203700
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Qt_9OpgYw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG-YAEQ7FLw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRgKzmOK0T4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNK3EkLVg-A

>>66204199
Well it was just never part of Japanese warfare. They had something kind of like a pavise made of bamboo, basically used like a semi-mobile wall to protect archers and such IIRC, but they just never used personal shields. I think a big part of it was the fact that early samurai - like starting from around the Nara period - were basically horse archers. I think there were shields in pre-state Jomon-period tribal Japan, but they disappeared when horse archery became the big thing IIRC.

Now that I think of it though, shields weren't really big in East Asia in general. The Chinese had personal shields, but they were made of rattan and AFAIK kind of subpar compared to Western shields.

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>>66203768
>>66203887
Katana were side-arms in battle, just like most other types of swords. They even developed faster forging methods during the 16th century in order to be able to produce them in greater numbers.

>>66204247
>Rapier beats pretty much everything.
George Silver disagreed.

>>66204370
That looks useful with the nails.

>>66201508
>Which civilization have produced the best swords?
Ancient world, probably the Indo-Persians and the supply of crucible wootz steel which in turn ended up all through eastern, south eastern asia and exported as far as europe on occasion.
A lot of their metallurgy and techniques would later go on to influence the Chinese and Japanese swords as well as Damascus and Toledo which produced a lot of good steel.

Middle era, a lot came out Spain, France and Italy which from the perspective of 'development' of swords as sidearms far surpassed anywhere else. Stuff like the sabre and rapier basically shit all over a whole heap of other designs for actually killing people: long reach, great hand protection and still get practice to this day in the form of fencing and HEMA groups.

Crucible steel production in the UK was basically the finest in the world come the industrial revolution, it was well researched, regulated and produced extremely uniform steels that would ultimately end up all over the world- often in the form of a sabre through someone's chest... but eh!
Someone commissions me to make them a knife- I'll usually be dragging out a lump of O1 tool steel made in the UK

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>>66201508
ULFBEHRT was batter than any sword produced in the world at that time, and far better than the fucking meme katana

The North wins once again

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>>66204506
>tfw black africans show more intuitive warfare skill than japs

>>66204506
Arguably, the golden age of infantry shields were the early middle ages. During the high middle ages, warfare became more 'professional' and organised infantry formations making use of polearm weaponry became more important. From that point on there really wasn't much place for shields any more outside of specialised roles. This wasn't that much different from the development that Japan underwent.

>>66204506
>Well it was just never part of Japanese warfare.
Shields in Japan where a thing, but it goes back a very long way- ultimately they fell into decline as Armour had advanced to the point that you didn't need a shield, similar to what happened in Europe with the arrival of plate armours.

>>66204636
>A lot of their metallurgy and techniques would later go on to influence the Chinese and Japanese swords as well as Damascus and Toledo which produced a lot of good steel.
I'm not too certain about that. Most cultures found out about bloomeries on their own and independently developed techniques to make most out of the material they got out of it. Crucible steel however was pretty much unique to the Indo-Persian sphere for quite some time. The Chinese on the other hand were first to develop the blast furnace but were as far as I know never able to make most out of it - unlike Europe, which developed the blast furnace later but had a thriving steel production in the Alpine area, in the area around Southern Germany / Austria and Northern Italy, where pretty much all the plate armour was made. In general depends steel production a lot on geographical factors in order to make it viable, otherwise the logistic effort becomes too great. Most of the Arabic world for example couldn't have raised a steel production of their own. They were lacking the vast forests of Europe. They had no other way but to import their material, which they usually did from the Indo-Persian area.

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>>66204506
Rattan was actually highly effective, since it was flexible and still hard enough to deflect blades.

>>66205458
What's that going to do when a spear comes flying into the gaps?

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>>66205596
Would get stuck, but mostly will be deflected - the light-weight of the shield allows for more maneuverbility and use of techniques. They are actually quite durable.

Some chinkboo shows some technqiues.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KzpTLZ_e40

Ancient Chinese (Han era) also had great-shields that were used more like how the Romans/Greeks used them. Later during Ming-dynasty, these great-shields were ligthened and used for some nifty small-squad tactics and formations.

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>>66204656
Reminds me of the late medieval duelling shields for judicial combat.

>>66205810
>would get stuck
isn't that half the point of throwing spears at shielding infantry formations?

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>>66204492
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIquh1CcLhE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGlgpslOaRY

the carracks black swords were used by portuguese warriors/sailors.

they were black because of some kind of coating that protected the steel from rusting and it prevented reflexes wich gave +5 stealth bonus

also the two loops near the hilt were used to protect the index finger, wich means a wider angle between the swordsman's arm and the sword could be used

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carracks_black_sword

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>>66206489

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>>66201508
Not japan, that's for sure

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If your sword ain't curved then you ain't got my word

>>66206670
Shit balance.

>>66204117
Abo detected

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>>66206489
Falcatas were swords used in pre roman times in the Iberian Peninsula
> pic related

and montantes were used in medieval times and were basically two handed gratswords

>>66206670
>Curved. Swords.

>>66203518
to slice incoming bullets, of course

or to commit sudoku

>>66206715
>>66206814
Curved swords are objectively better.

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>>66206948
Indeed. See >>66206393 >>66204492

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilij

>>66205286
Ancient world wasn't always 'insular' and there was quite a bit of trade, which in turn produced as a side effect- technology being passed on in some form or another.
Most of the Arabic weapons tended to come from imported Indian produced steels, mixed in with lower locally made stuff and pattern welded to eventually become known as 'Damascus' steel which came from Syria-Lebanon region. That in turn also ended up as far as Spain with the Moors to some extent, though the Spanish had a fairly long history of steel production themselves which goes all the way back to the Celtic peoples who went rampaging through the whole region. Some of their technology also ended up being traded with the Germanics as well via the Celts too.
Some of the Filipino traditional bladesmiths I've noticed produce pattern welding very similar to the Indians and Sri Lankans and in turn they passed a bit of it on all through the SEA region.

In terms of China and Japan, the Chinese did trade with the Indo-Persian peoples via the Silk road and as best I can tell from my own poking around, there was some passing on of metallurgy to them, which in turn the Chinese passed onto the Japanese and they then further modified to suit their own locally available materials- which where quite shit! That region (far Eastern Asia) and its weaponsmiths aren't exactly a speciality of mine at least at practical level, I don't have a lot of personal interest there.

If I were in a medieval melee fight, there are a lot of weapons I'd choose over a sword. I think a polearm would be my first choice. A glaive, perhaps. Something hafted seems like it would be user friendly for untrained faggots like the people here. I also think the Danish axe looks like a great weapon that would be easy to wield. Do answer the OP though, the Arabs made good swords. Don't know if they're the best in the world but why not, that's my answer.

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>>66207432
>pattern welded to eventually become known as 'Damascus' steel which came from Syria-Lebanon region
What is in the west known as "Damascus steel" is not a pattern welded material though. The pattern on wootz blades stems from a slow cooling process of the crucible steel and the macro structures within. It is not the result of a mechanical process as western or Japanese pattern welding is.

>there was some passing on of metallurgy to them, which in turn the Chinese passed onto the Japanese
I find this rather unlikely. The Japanese use a bloomery called Tatara to smelt their iron - they neither used crucibles nor blast furnaces like the Chinese. The material they got out of it is comparable to what Europe had throughout most of the middle ages and their forging techniques also resemble more European ones - which they developed completely independently however. Crucible steel comparable to what they had in the Indo-Persian area is something they didn't have.

>>66209042
You sound like you know a lot about swords.

Toledan steel and spanish rapiers.

/thread

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>>66206741
Montantes were the best. Also the Carrack swords were called espadas de cojones in Spain. I have some pictures of a very good example.

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>>66210180
Like this one. They weren't blacked tough.

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>>66210298
And another.

>>66210298
Your mum was blacked.

>>66201508
Japan
Arabs
Germany

Spain. Because Toledan steel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_steel

god when he made muh dick

>>66201508
Either Germany, or Scotland most likely.
I'm personally a fan of Flamberge swords.

>>66210905
I visited Toledo once back in the 90's. The swords actually being sold were gimmicky tourist shit but it was still pretty cool.

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MAKE IT THINNER

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>>66201508
Japan were the kings of polearms.
Their swords were purely status.

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>>66211247
Like, why use a sword, when you can use a sword on a stick

>>66211247
>Japan were the kings of polearms
My nigger. I've always loved the naginata. I think that would be an A+ practical melee weapon and I happen to think it's stylish as well.

>>66211018

Yes, that's not the real ancient work, just merchandising for tourists.

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I'd do anything for a light saber

Even though I'd personally go with a mace or hammer and say fuck your armor, I'm gonna bash your head in anyway.
Something about rapiers make them seem so much better when someone who knows what they're doing is wielding it.

>>66211321
Yeah that was pretty obvious but the tour was a lot of fun. Would recommend for any medieval history nerd.

Best swords were probably vikings (ulfberht), syrians (damascus steel) and spanish (toledo steel)

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>>66211247
>>66211310
>>66211315
The good thing about swords is that you can wear them easily by your side while using a pole-arm.
The problem with pole-arms is that you might get in a situation where their length gets cumbersome and then you'd be glad to carry a sword by your side.

In that regard it's nonsense to think of swords and pole-arms as exclusive weapons when historically they've always complemented each other.

weebs BTFO

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF2wLZBUEi4

>>66211478
Yeah a polearm would generally be my first choice but I'd hate to try to use one indoors.

>>66211469

I also visited Toledo in the 90's (with my school). I still have a replica of the Cid sword, fully oxidized today.

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>>66211637

Pic.

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>>66201508
Silly chink
pierce > slash
katanas are overrated

>>66211905

You can't even compete with a katana with that. You should have put the photo of a saber.

>>66211991
not If we both wear armor

>>66212035

Te coje el chino te destroza loco, necesitas un sable.

>>66212094
loco boy con harmadura y le reviento ajaja
la hago ais pim pam bumba y a la mierda chino jajaja

Which civilization invented the Morningstar ?

>>66212176
you,argelia

>>66212176
egypt

everyone else copied them

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I honestly think Spears are underrated.

>medium-long range weapon
>can be thrown at the enemy
>push the enemy when he defends with the shield
>stab the living shit of the enemy

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>All these swordfaggots


a lot of good your overgrown weebo knives and spears will do you when you get an arrow through your belly from a distance.

>>66212498
This is literally a thread about swords. Not bows.

>>66212703


I didnt start it,

piss off, Im not the only one posting none sword weapons

>>66202457
Japanese steel was complete rubbish

>>66212781
It was the "all these swordfaggots" that I was replying to I guess. Like you seemed surprised that we'd be posting swords in a sword thread.

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>>66212971

>>66212942
This. The only reason it was folded so many times is because it was so shit

If you make a sword out of aluminium foil, but fold it a billion times, it doesnt make it a good sword.

>>66201508
Japan

>>66212703
He's a dumb polack.

>>66202263
This. Modern forgery > medieval 6000 billion fold.

ulfbrecht or what the fuck those viking swords were called were good
katanas are still good
sword made with western know how are good rapiers and such

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>>66213038
>doesnt see many songs or movies about dumb polaks

lol american idiot

>>66212498
>Polish anti-tank weapon.jpg

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>>66213167

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>Katanas are shit. Let me tell you about swords.

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100 gorillan hours in mount and blade has taught me the best weapon is the military clever, a perfect weapon for clearing walls of castles so that you have room to unleash great bardiche justice upon the swadian foe

>>66213571
>muh games tot me

see>>66213164


american idiot meme confirmed

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I'm seeing a lot of swords for babies in this thread

>>66206741
This is a very nice looking sword though

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Swedish Mora knife could destroy even the strongest samurai katana

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>>66213726
>eat bolts

>>66213841
*teleports behind you*
*cuts you in half*

pshhh...nothing personnel...kid...

>>66213983
well....I....


damn

>>66203518
Tradition/cultural reasons. They served no real functional purpose.

>>66202396
>There are no objectively best swords.
Exactly.

Each design came about to meet a specific need (method of carry, method of employment, armour of enemy, use with/without shield, use mounted or not, etc.)

Whilst some designs achieved their objective poorly many were excellent.

>>66214246
>They served no real functional purpose.


lol retarded amerikano


yeah they carried it to add extra weight to the plane

lol stupid mother fucker

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>>66214340

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>tfw my cunt is too new to have had its own traditional swords

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>>66214786
Doesnt your "marines" hand out these swords to their servicemen?

Notice the star of david on them?

show how much you know about your "country"

lmfao

>>66214340
here's your (you)

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>>66215322
shove it up your loose asshole, faggot

lmfao

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Thank you Mongols for dem curves

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>>66215560

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>>66202396
>>66202457
>>66210818
>>66211247
>>66211315
>>66213038