>have no skills at anything because of constant procrastination

Your mistake was trying to compete in the beginning at all.

>>3121255
shouldn't this be
>have no skill
>think drawing looks easy for some weird reason
>is one of the hardest things to do and make money with which isn't a real job
>kill yourself

You can still make it you fool, the older you get the faster you learn

why do idiots like op place so much emphasis on age
who cares man

>>3121280
Guess they think this is like in sports, where age matters a lot to "make it"

>>3121280
Glen Vilippu didn't start until his 30s

>>3121281
>>3121280
There is an age limit you fucking retard. Art is a language, how many people do you see that start learning a language in their 20s that become as fluent as a native speaker? ZERO BITCH. Art is a visual language and it's the same way.

>>3121281
i think it's more that the only reason they're trying to get into drawing is that they have wasted their youth with video games, they talk about age not because drawing requires youth, but because everything else requires school

>>3121276
The older you get the slower you learn because the older you get the more reassured you are in your preconcieved beliefs

OP: to make art you have to destroy yourself and then pick up the pieces and make something good out of them

>>3121286
Memers leave!

>>3121286
My boss is a swedish man that started learning spanish at 37 and motherfucker speaks better than most natives

>inb4 anecdotal evidence

>>3121281
>mfw I started to box with 26
>first fight at 30
>KOs one 21 year old kid

Not doing that again because I don't want to put my wife in more strain, but felt good.

>>3121293
>The older you get the slower you learn
No you don't. Most old people that can't learn something new is mainly because they have a lot of responsibilities (children, married, job taking lot of time, etc.) prejudices about the subject matter ("you have to be a genius to do something like that!") or limiting beliefs like "The older you get the slower you learn"

How the fuck can I get a job if I am behind so many people, that's the point

>>3121304
There's a lot of jobs obviously

>>3121293
that depends, I guess. I find I learn much faster now than when I was 20, because I know myself better and know what works and what does not.

>>3121307
Don't fool yourself. The only reason why you're learning faster is because you're trying harder. If you tried as hard in your 20s you'd have improved much quicker.


"Oh, I am applying deliberate practice in my 40s and i'm improving much faster than I did in my 20s when I was mindlessly doodling, that must mean that the older I get the faster I learn"

Shit logic.

>>3121315
That's not enough information to prove that you can't learn faster when you get older.

Funny I'm trying less now (not him btw) than other times I tried to draw and I'm getting better faster, why? I think is mainly my mentality, before I would see practicing things like perspective and anatomy as an impossible task, then I realized they are not as hard as they seem and now I'm learning a lot and actually having fun.

>>3121255
i thought the /ic/ standard for too old to get gud is 25. you've got 2 more years anon.

>>3121255
If you're starting this late, you shouldn't be thinking about it as a new career. What you're getting into is a hobby. Sometimes that turns into a career, but only with a lot of commitment and passion. If you aren't learning how to draw for its own sake you're not gonna get much out of this venture.

>>3121286
lmao at this pseudodeep garbage. Brains have this thing called neuroplasticity. It doesn't matter what the starting age is.

>>3121326
This is hilarious. Dude probably hasn't even lifted a pen yet he's already thinking about making a career out of it.

>>3121326
>he fell for the passion meme
Ignore this fag.

>>3121286
>how many people do you see that start learning a language in their 20s that become as fluent as a native speaker? ZERO BITCH
please tell me you're trolling.

>>3121326
>If you're starting this late, you shouldn't be thinking about it as a new career.
the majority of elite artists that this board worships all started around the age of 17-19. 23 is insignificantly older to actually believe that's already "too old for a start".

>>3121332
By passion I'm referring to how a lot of people think they're interested in drawing but in reality they just wish they could draw. People who get good at drawing like the activity itself not just the results. If all OP cares about is the end results he's gonna give up.

>>3121315
>The only reason why you're learning faster is because you're trying harder.
That's not entirely true. I'd say most people in their early 20s are capable of learning way more efficient than for example teens or children, as they, by this point, had to taught themself how to research and study on their own, often because they had to build this set of skills in college/ university.

Most teens lack perspective and are unwilling to put enough thought and effort in their hobbies, and even if they do, they often have troubles organizing and scheduling. There are kids who are willing and able to fully commit to art, but there are very few of them.
I think most people start 'drawing seriously' in their late teens or early twenties anyway.

OP, you're better off keeping art as a hobby and doing it on the side. Don't gamble your future on a skill you don't have yet. Get a decent degree and a job you're happy with.

>>3121335
Not too late to start drawing or get good at it, but assuming op means to start in a career in it, and maybe I'm misinterpreting what he means be being competitive, would be difficult at that age. It's difficult to get into any competitive field, not just art, starting from scratch in your mid 20s. Not impossible though.

>>3121286
Wow, you are stupid. It's easy if you have time and money.

Once you get started you're going to find a never-ending stream of shit getting in your way, knocking you down, and making you feel like quitting.

If you can't even bring yourself to start because you're so obsessed with the easy emotional catharsis of your personal victimhood, how are you going to tackle the things that will shred your momentum once you get going?

Find an answer to that by starting, learning to love the rhythm of the banal, worthless progress you're going to see, and learning to tolerate a larger worldview where you're neither the most or least worthwhile person. Or don't, and die I guess. You wouldn't be much of a loss if you did at this point, you're nothing more right now than the same potential lots of people have, and they're getting started and using it while you're feeling sorry for yourself.

>>3121315
>The only reason why you're learning faster is because you're trying harder
you're quick on your feet to make (shitty) assumptions to support your ideas

I learn faster because now I have developed tools that aid me in learning. I can eyeball proportions, values and gesture at a glance. I am faster and cleaner at drawing so I spend less time adjusting and fixing and more time actually drawing. I can construct faster because I have an intuitive grasp on form and perspective. Also, I simply understand now when I have learned something in a way that sticks and can just move on without getting caught in dimishing returns. And all this gets better with time and study.

I also have more patience and less distracting thoughts, like "oh shit I suck, I am old, fuck, I am just going to quit" and maybe stop drawing for the day. When I have to draw, I just draw, knowing that it is time to practice and without putting too much tought in the final result. That's something that is called maturity and comes with time.

>>3121328
It does matter you stupid fuck. Just because neuroplasticity exists doesn't mean there isn't limitations on it. The older you get, your neuroplasticity declines to the point where you can't learn anything new.


Take genie for example. She was a child that was locked in her basement with no communication for 13 years. Finally she was found but she passed the critical period for language learning and as a result, she was never able to communicate in language no matter how much psychologists tried to help her.

It's the same with art. It may not be as severe but there is a reason why most great artists started really early on.

http://firsttoknow.com/the-feral-child-who-suffered-at-the-hands-of-her-sadistic-father/

Pretending that age doesn't play a role in your learning ability is retarded as fuck.

>>3121364
>that shitty extreme example
That kid clearly had way more psychological problems than just being "too old"

>>3121364
so since no one of us has been locked in a basement for 13 years we're fine?

>>3121369
"Psychological problems" won't prevent you from learning a language dumb dumb

>>3121373
You missed the point retard. Obviously, we aren't locked in basements but it doesn't matter because people normally practice their communication skills early on and throughout their lifetime, it's not the same with art.

>>3121378
>"Psychological problems" won't prevent you from learning a language dumb dumb
Yes they will.

>>3121344
this is retarded. you literally, unironically think that the number 23 is what determines whether OP can make it a career or not? It has nothing to do with how hard you grind or how many hours you put in? kys.

>>3121380
Show me an example of someone who was inhibited from language learning solely based on psychological problems?

>>3121392
Weird how:
>Sometimes that turns into a career, but only with a lot of commitment

>>3121394
Depressed people who tried to learn a language and just give up, also that girl Genie is a good example too.

>>3121398
shitty example, actual retardation is a psychological disorder aswell

>>3121398
Obviously, I'm referring to first language you stupid fuck. No kid goes hey i'm depressed so I won't learn to speak.

>>3121421
Well, actual retardation would clearly inhibit your artistic skills as well.

>>3121423
>Obviously, I'm referring to first language you stupid fuck. No kid goes hey i'm depressed so I won't learn to speak.
Also, this was about that girl, the point was that she clearly had a lot more problems than just being to old, clearly way deeper than just a depressed person.

>>3121423
And? It still is a psychological problem which definitely inhibits your ability to learn a language, invalidating the original argument that no psychological problem could have been the cause of the girl not being able to speak, not to mention people learning languages and becoming fluent in them in the later life is quite common, especially if those people are immersed in the language.

>>3121282
https://help.sketchbook.com/knowledgebase/figure-drawing-glenn-vilppu-sketchbook/

he started drawin at 7

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everyone in this thread is a fucking idiot lol
there are people who go into med school and engineering in their late 30s but i guess drawing is such an incredibly difficult skill that you can't learn it if you're not a 17 year old drawing anime fan art?

>>3121431
don't worry, most people agree, there is mostly one idiot that thinks people's brains have a best before date.

>>3121255
Here's what is going to happen OP: you're gonna procrastinate on drawing with the excuse of not being better than people who began 10 years before you did, then you're gonna end up working in a Warehouse and pushing boxes around instead of drawing them.
Every year you'll promise to yourself that it's gonna be different. Your HD will be full of books and tutorials, over 20 Giga of references. Every night you'll come to /ic/. Yeah this year will be different OP for sure.
> This story may be fictionnal and unrelated to my current life btw

You're only 23 so you better make better choices because at 30 you'll have less options. Do it before you have babies, a divorce and lot of stuff to pay for.

>>3121431
People who go into Med and Engineering schools are smart. They're grownup skills you learn when your'e an adult. Drawing you have to draw all your life or you're just be mediocre.

>>3122281
Define smart and mediocre.

just do it anon-kun! make your manga, gambate!

>>3122293
Smart as in able to understand complex fields like medicine and engineering. These are "Grown-up" skills and only adults or prodigies can begin to get them. Drawing is easier for the average person not understand, but it takes decades of practice. Starting late and not having the basics already drilled into your skull you'll fall behind and have a very hard time unlearning all the mistakes real artists stop when they're 15.. It'll be mediocre. You can show it to someone, and they'll say it's pretty good. Just above passable, nothing enjoyable or worth any money..

>>3121255
One of the best artists I personally know started at 37. Didn't even touch drawing till then. He's 50-something now.

>>3122309
Post their work

>>3122316
Fuck no, I don't want to post someone else's work on fucking 4chan without their knowledge. I rarely ever post my own shitty drawings.

>>3122304
Your post is probably one of the biggest mental gymnastics I've ever read to justify mediocrity.
>>3122309
There's probably tons of no names "too late" starters that have a great career in this.

>>3122322
It's true. Maybe there's the rare person who can become a good artist at 46, but most need to spend decades to reach that point.

>>3122304
Dumbest post I've seen in a while. Medicine isn't complex its nothing but memorization, and engineering itself isn't complex it just requires a great deal of prerequisite knowledge in other fields(just like art).
But all those things are taught to these dumb little kiddies you think things are too complex for.
Though I guess I'm the retard for responding to a brainlet IQ meme poster.

>>3122336
So why doesn't everyone become doctors or engineers if a kid can do it?

>>3122343
You need a ton of papers that require a ton of money to get.

>>3122343
Because you need actual interest or big motivation in the actual field.

>>3122343
Because memorizing all that shit takes a lot of time. Just like learning how to make good art.

>>3122343
Things that take dedication, like memorizing all the things you need to know intimately to even enter medical school or drawing, are mentally exhausting and most people don't even try.

It also helps that, because of how lucrative they are as a career, medicine and engineering are competitive fields, and that tends to weed out the less dedicated of the lot. Plus medical school takes six years of full time schooling to complete. That's a lot of time you're not seeing back.

>>3122345
You can make that money back., You're just talking shit about people smarter then you.

>>3122336
You're so utterly full of shit, I don't know where to start - once I start laughing. LOL. Sure thing, kid. You've reduced the entire field of medicine to "memorizing things" - I'm sure heart surgeons would love how you've minimalized their specialty and years of training, lol.

Seriously, you're so full of shit, you must slosh if you stop too quickly.

>>3122377
Surgery isn't medicine, its surgery.

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>>3121255
Stop bitching and just do it. I thought so too at 23 and didn't even bother, thought so too every year after that. I was drawing animushit for fun on deviantart when appleflinger started out and sucked, then just watched aside as he surpassed me by light years. I'm 30 now and finally started getting serious. Seeing all these talented young artists stings a bit but can't focus on it, just keep going forward.

Very few people on /ic/ are actually good. A quick trip to twitter and you'll see all the younger people who are 3000 times better than anyone here. Despite our great resources, /ic/ is a place where dreams die as you spend your 20s attacking others who actually draw and making meta threads about namefags.

>>3122393
Never gonna make it,.

>>3122396
That's because /ic/ is a battle field made for training. Those who survive and become toughened up will have all the resources, advice and experience in the world to take on anything. Survival of the fittest is /ic/'s motto.

>>3122402
The server is nicer and more helpful to others

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>>3122399
There is truth to that but I don't even mind. Getting rid of 15 years of symbol drawing is difficult and drawing now is a lot more difficult than it was in my teens as time goes by way faster and I don't have the same drive anymore. But even if I try there is no risk, as a penniless poorfag my socialist country pays all the expenses while I NEET at home and if I decide to go to art school that's free too and I get paid to go there.

>>3121255
If you pressure yourself like that, you will set tyrannical rules for yourself (like drawing 12 hours a day). Try to ease yourself into practicing a craft/hobby. Start by setting the rule that you should spend 15 minutes a day drawing, which might translate into a shitty 15 minute portrait from random reference. It's hard to stick to it at first, as easy as the rule sounds, but eventually it will become a habit and you will end up spending half an hour at least. That's probably the time when you can think about setting a 2 hour practice schedule, but start slow. Just make it a daily habit and don't overthink what you draw. Don't pressure yourself to make a unique artwork every time, just draw some thots on pinterest and instagram, draw your hand, draw whatever is on your desk. Worrying what to practice and being overly perfectionist and purist about "but muh imaginashun", "never draw X" will just get you off track. You are just a baby trying to draw what you see and trying your best not to be a lazy bitch, you can worry about that stuff later. This should get you to a level where you are a little bit less ashamed of your work so you can muster up the courage to take a sketchbook everywhere with you. It is like a snowball effect, the more you have, the more will be given to you, those who have nothing, everything will be taken from them or some shit like that Matthew is saying in the Bible.

>>3122419
how do you get paid as a neet?

in my country i would have to sign up for welfare and be put into "training camps" 6hours every day doing labour task for some fucks without even getting paid on top of being forced to sit there and apply for real jobs.

i got diagnosed with a mental illness and even now they force me to go to group therapy 4times a week for 4hours each and after 6months i have to get "reevaluated" on my mental illness and if they say i don't have it anymore back to applying to jobs and work 6hours a day without getting paid.

i just want to kill myself

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>>3122455
They pay my rent (and I live in the capital) and some bills like electricity, home insurance and healthcare. After those expenses are counted out a single person household must be left with 487 eur (578 USD) that's meant for food, clothes, transport, etc. whatever you want. There's no food stamp system to track what you use it for, can blow it all on coke and whores if you want to and have other source for food. I've just saved some every month and bought 1400€ desktop and 4k TV. I'm obligated to job hunt but they send me 1 position to apply for every 2 months. Sometimes they might force me for unpaid apprenticeship (free for the employer) or workshop for polishing that empty CV (in reality that's just wanking off and browsing shit in another location than home for 2 weeks), for those you can get extra 180 eur per month (9 eur for every day you show up).

For studying the money isn't that good, you get a portion of your rent covered and like 200 a month, which is supposed to cover all your bills and supplies (schools have no tuition but you still have to buy your own shit). Plus you're obligated to take a government backed student loan which you don't need any sort of credit score for, everyone will get it if you haven't fucked shit up. If you have a mark on your credit score you can't get the loan and then you're entitled to the unemployment benefit I'm on and live like a king compared to any non-working student, sometimes you can even strike a deal with the employment agency and get the extra 180/month for studies.

I have mental illnesses too but can't get diagnosed, the queue on public healthcare is too long, nobody really cares as long as I pay all the bills on time. I've just been on rehabilitating workshops that are a waste of time, they just use us as free workers.

>>3122519
Is this sweden? I have a friend in a similar situation who lives there

>>3122527
No but close, Sweden doesn't use Euro, pretty much all the Nordics have the same system.

>>3122519
Finn detected.

nothing more pathetic than grandpas delusional enough to believe they're gonna make it, competing in a global market with talented youths today who have access to all the resources they didn't 20 years ago.

if you're 30+ and still trying, LMAO pathetic

>>3122562
Game and movie industry is still pretty small and everyone know each other. If you have good portfolio, have basic knowledge of 3D programs, you good to go, never mind the age.
Some friend of Feng Zhu start learning concept art in his 50s.

so much useless info in this thread so many morons

>>3122566
welp, at least this is true. so the real objective is to get being part of them

>>3122566
lol the anecdotes old men tell themselves to sleep better at night. I'm sure you cite this like a robot every time something intrudes on your delusions. stay NGMI grandpa

this whole "you can't learn when you're older" is bullshit. i think the only difference between a 20 year old and 40 year old getting into art is TIME to practice. the latter likely has a job, a wife, kids, and a mortgage to pay, while the other has all the freedom and time in the world to be a shut-in nerd practicing 8+ hours a day while living off his parents.

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>If I cannot be number 1
>I cannot possibly ever get a job in the industry


Are you people for realzies?

>>3122419
Where do you live?

>>3122650
Not all people want to be some nobody with no money or respect.

Why is everyone so fixated on becoming a concept artist?

>>3122343
For the same reason 90% of /ic/ won't make it. Things take hard work and dedication.

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>>3122659

Then work hard for it and stop bitching.

>>3121255
Self-expression is not a competition.

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>>3122684
because 90% of /ic/ knows nothing about the entertainment industry and lacks the mental capacity to realize there are more employment opportunities beyond concept art.

the 90% also has a weird fixation with age and think the popular, dime-a-dozen teenage anime artists on instagram/youtube/twitter/etc. are the pinnacles of success and are proof that anyone over the age of 20 can never become great.

it's sad, but oh well. at least there's less competition for the people who actually want to make it and are working hard.

>>3122642
>lol
>on 4chan
kys

>>3122786
This

>>3122786
Why don't you tell /ic/ about all the positions available then?

>>3122786
>concept art

I thought everyone wanted to draw anime here or some form of illustration. I never ever see anything related to concept art here.

>>3122842
This desu, everyone here always talks about wanting to make it but if you look in any thread where people post art everyone is just drawing chubby/furry porn.

>>3122838
>Why don't you tell /ic/ about all the positions available then?

is google down today or something?

>>3122842
This. All we have here is wannabe illustrators.

>>3122842
This, cute anime girls every day all day.

>>3122842

Not me, I came in wanting to learn how to draw pony porn and horsepussy, but now I am only interested in actual industrial design.

>>3122900
You're the 1% who learns from the dated techniques of Scott Robertson

>>3121315

you have provided 0 proof that people who are younger learn faster than people who are older

why are you so aggressive in your posts? it's so pathetic, it just shows how insecure you are

>>3122951
>0 proof that people who are younger learn faster than people who are older
not him but are you clinically stupid? plasticity memes aside can you honestly say with a straight face a 40 year old has the same advantage as a 12 year old at learning new skills?

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Here's a Dinour

>>3121286

Care to post your evidence/sources for this amazing theory? lmao

>>3121255

I started when I was 23 and it was worth it. There are lots of people who start art in their 20's when they realize they're out of time to fuck around with things.

A lot of people who started when they were teens or younger don't even have a clue what they're doing. They were taught wrong, they get fed bullshit by their parents and teachers about how good they are, they don't know how to practice.

If you put your chin down and practice every day for the next couple years you'll be good enough that you'll be happy you did it. You won't be professionally good, but you'll be going somewhere and you'll still be young.

A guy starting at 23 who is dead serious about what they're learning will always eclipse someone who is less ambitious, regardless of the age they start at.

>>3122982
post work

>>3122970
Nope. They have an even greater advantage because they should know all the pitfalls of life and learning as well as know how to manage their time well. Young people suck at this and if they don't, then they're good.

>>3122970

Depends who you're talking about. Your average 40 year old who hasn't read a book since high school probably won't, but if it's an intelligent person who's been learning to learn the whole time, they'll have a huge advantage over some 12 year old.

You might 'absorb' stuff quick when you're a kid, but that only applies to things you don't have to figure out yourself. Art is very knowledge heavy. You need to learn this stuff through proper study and application, you can't just soak it in like a sponge. Learning properly is a skill within itself, it takes maturity and experience.

The biggest argument against studying art later in life is the fact that you probably just won't have enough time to dedicate to it at that age. If you have a full time job and a family, you probably won't be able to put the sheer amount of hours in that you need.

Art isn't a competition either. Yeah, there's probably some genius who did start as a kid, and they progressed amazingly, and you'll never be as good as them. Doesn't mean you can't get good, or that your art won't be original, or that you won't be able to make the things that you want to make. Ambition is healthy, but there's no sense in cutting your own legs out from under yourself just because you'll never be that guy. There's always going to be someone better than you no matter what you're trying to do.

>>3121302
Huge swaths of Earth's population are easy to manipulate and control because of these things.

>>3122992
^

>>3122970

>call someone clinically stupid
>think yourself inferior to 12 year olds which are considered clinically stupid when compared to the brain of an adult

the irony here is so thick you can cut it

>>3123114

if 12 year olds aren't so smart why did your mom ask you to help her out with the computer when you were younger

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>mfw reading all these comments
>people think age limits them

how about having a real limiter like carpal and cubital tunnel syndrome in both hands?

that's what I have, and I can't draw more than 2 hours a day because of it, which is not enough practice to get good

fuck you entitled faggots

>>3121255
>>3121315
>>3121332
A lot of people on /ic/ sound like they don't like drawing

>>3121364
Why are you so furiously holding on to this argument? most of the people in here are in their 20's early 30's and (if physically and mentally healthy) can easily learn a new skill such as drawing or playing an instrument. Who cares if they theoretically could have improved a little faster when they were 10-15 years old? Not a wrath of god could have committed me to spend all my spare time drawing when I was 15, but now as I'm 25 and have control of my leisure I can draw and improve fairly quickly. It almost sounds like you are trying to justify something.

And yes of course I know I won't be as good as Turner, because by the age of 20 he had probably drawn and studied few lifetimes worth of material compared to modern working man who takes drawing / art as hobby and wants to pursue it on his spare time. And it's a hobby until you quit your work / school to pursue it.

>>3123122
It's holistic learning, kids learn like sponges by mere exposure, adults on the other hand are trained to learn facts and concepts in specific ways - 2 decades of schooling ensured that, most just lack the ambition, time and interest to keep up with the times. As someone working in IT support, let me tell you that I can understand the old lady not getting why her magical mirror isn't answering her prayers anymore. Those things didn't exist when she began working. What gets to me are the 18 year old temps who don't understand that printers need electricity and paper (true story). Anyway... OP is 23, he isn't exactly old enough to be our mum. He's searching for excuses. Nothing we say we'll convince him, and we'll continue to have this thread on a daily basis, like we've had for years.

>>3123126
Tie a fucking brush to your hand, you pussy-ass faggot. Crippling disorders are not legitimate excuses. Complain when somebody cuts your limbs off.

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>>3122657
See
>>3122558

>>3121344

I bet you don't even work in the industry...


Post your work and prove me wrong.

>>3123126
anyone got that pic of that girl taping her pen to her hand?

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>>3123126
nm got it already >>3123250

>>3121255
>Be 29
>Learn to draw
>Pro by 32
>Better than any 23 year old

Meh...
Stop being a little shit, anon. Has nothing to do with age, has more to do with how spoiled you are.

>>3123272
I didn't realize you were this cocky firez.

>>3121255
>ls at anything because of constant procrastination
>>decide to learn to dr
yeah but you got 123 posts tho

>>3123151
>and we'll continue to have this thread on a daily basis, like we've had for years.

at this point I seriously think it's just one guy reposting threads based on the archive year after year

At least 3 times by now at near coincidental dates did my posts match up from last year in a repeated thread. I thought I was high at first but then I look through the archive and low and behold I had the same exact conversation, same exact argument, similar responses.

One other guy does this on another board I won't mention.

>>3123251
>>3123250
>>3123164

epic meme bros!

haha!

>>3123386
stay NGMI lazy shitter

>>3123386
joke's on you, folks actually do that. some people draw with their mouths and are better than you

>>3123126
>there's people with no hands dreaming about even being able to draw a line
>cries about his hands hurting
What a entitled little fag.

>>3123483
>>3123444
>>3123430

there's no competition to make the most retarded comment imaginable

you aren't winning anything

>>3121255
same age, I'm probably WAY better than you :P

>>3123515
neither are you, stay shit. no one gives a fuck about your lil boo boo, grab a bandaid cuck

drawing or illustration is a trade skill, a trade skill takes about 3 years to learn... OP is a faggot. nobody who decides any career at the age of 23 that require him to go to university for 3 or 4 years kills himself because he sees other people who are 23 with a bachelor degree.

>>3123601
That's a pretty dumb comparison. Welding doesn't even take 3 years either.

>>3121255
>see other people's skills when they are 23
>kill myself because its impossible to compete against anyone

Retard logic. Age is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if someone is better than you when they're 67 or when they're 15. Progress is a ladder and everyone is either above you or below you, regardless of age.