Daily reminder that what /ic/ considers to be constructive criticism

>>3121225
incorrectly**, wrong is inelegant
or, you could have also gone with 'wrong' and then 'right' possibly, but 'wrong' and 'well', ew.

otherwise i think it's a good piece, the central composition together with the mathematical plus sign gives the impression that this is a simple formula that anyone could follow, the colour choices, a stark dichotomy with white negative space and black text also reminds us of the simple worksheet-like nature of the classroom.

nice job.

>>3121225
My COM101 instructor would tell us, "when giving critique, tell the person 2 things theyve done right and 1 thing they can improve on." I think /ic/ should do this in my opinion

>>3121235
i think that can be a bit of an error with teaching art because art isn't very concrete.

sure you can point out errors and good bits, but a lot of the 'problems' a person can have with art are things like insipidity and incongruity, so you need to point out what things are 'medium' too, and in actually like most cases errors aren't as important as getting rid of the lame stuff.

>>3121244
actually in most cases errors aren't as important and fixing the lame bits**

i blame coffee

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>>3121225
/ic/ is incapable of constructive criticism and just insults and demeans other people to make themselves feel better. This is nothing new

Best advice I ever got on this front came from an AD who swore by the idea that you should say what is right because those are the parts they don't need to change. If you don't do this, the person ends up confused and may compromise the most on-point parts of a piece in an attempt to fix the rest.

It's not supposed to be an asset, it's an idea of what's working and what isn't. And what isn't working isn't there to tear the artist down but to get them to see why it should be fixed so that the parts that are working aren't competing with the problems for attention.

Genuinely life-changing view of constructive criticism, for me, but not always in a good way. I've gotten terrible advice full of pointless asspats from other folks that I assumed was following that formula only to later have then tell be to fix the previous stuff they complimented - they just thought they had to say something nice before asking for reworks, even if they didn't like the thing in question.

>>3121235
I think "when giving critique, point out the 2 most severe mistakes in that person's drawing and 1 thing they should generally improve on." is a better approach.

Pointing out what's good is a bonus that has to be earned by genuinely good work.

>>3121354
>Pointing out what's good is a bonus that has to be earned by genuinely good work.
but say that someone nails the perspective and makes a shitty job on everything else, why would you not point out that he did good at least on that one thing?

Seeing potential actually takes experience. Pointing out mistakes does not. That's the difference.

Everything that isn't wrong is good, so what's the point?

>>3121312
fuck off scrub

>>3121382
No u

>>3121367
like I said, if you feel something is praise worthy, praise it. but it shouldn't be mandatory to poinz out good stuff. it's, like i said, a bonus.

the 'sandwich method' of saying something positive, then something one could improve on, then something positive again is outdated. this approach just nurtures mediocre students.

>>3121225
Problem. What if they did nothing right? I'm trying to not be a dick but I get some dunning-kruger who thinks they covered the basics when they obviously have not and they are pissing me off with their whining.

>>3121407
You can praise abstract behaviors. Recognize that they tried to put previous crit into the new work, went outside their usual purview, or just that they put themselves out there to get crit. This is obviously easier in a dedicated crit setting where you can see a person more than once. It doesn't really work here so much

>>3121407
if it is from imagination you could praise something like creativity or originality. But I think that just not being a dunning kruger and accepting critique is worth a pat on the shoulder

>>3121403

Constructive criticism is not about giving a laundry list of what to fix, although that can be part of it. More fundamentally it is about giving guidance and direction and that includes being able to see potential in someone's work and to make them aware of what habits they have which are going in the right direction. That is clearly not praise or lifting a student's spirits but rather a rational assesment of their strengths and weaknesses. Low skilled people obviously have more weaknesses than strengths though.

>>3121225
Wrong. Constructive criticism is any meaningful, honest and or accurate criticism that is delievered in a neutral tone. If the artist didn't do anything right then they didn't do anything right.

Implying drawing isn't extremely unintuitive and shit fuck beginners won't get everything wrong

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>>3121225
From the book Creativity Inc (about Pixar)

>"As Andrew Stanton says, "There's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism. With the latter, you're constructing at the same time that you're criticizing. You're building as you're breaking down, making new pieces to work with out of the stuff you've just ripped apart. That's an art form in itself. I always feel like whatever notes you're giving should inspire the recipient--like, 'How do I get that kid to want to redo his homework?' So, you've got to act like a teacher. Sometimes you talk about the problems in fifty different ways until you find that one sentence that you can see makes their eyes pop, as if they're thinking, 'Oh, I want to do it.' Instead of saying, 'The writing in this scene isn't good enough,' you say, 'Don't you want people to walk out of the theater and be quoting those lines?' It's more of a challenge. 'Isn't this what you want? I want that too!'"

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>>3121225
So in other words, lets sugar coat all critiques so as to not hurt someone's fragile fee-fee's

Constructive criticism doesn't need asspats or telling people what they did right, it just means telling them what they did wrong in a way that can allow them to correct it (rather than "its shit").

If you go "your arms are shit but I like the face :)" that's still not constructive.

>>3121616
You're still thinking of the asspat as separate and tacked on. It would be more like "your shoulders are in the correct perspective here but the arms aren't"

>>3121225
W R O N G
Say what the artist did wrong, and how to make it better you dumb shit

>>3121613
post work

>>3121225

do you know what the word criticism means ?

>>3121312
Go back to. reddit.

>>3122174
No

Anonymity just lends to people here just shitting on others' works with little repercussion. This place will forever be a shithole for that reason. Decent constructive criticism is difficult to come by which is why many people tend to resort to expensive online classes or going to art school.

>>3122284
Exactly people here will say your art is shit, but they will never tell you why it's shit or how to improve it.
/ic/ is only good for the guides

>>3121939
do you know the name of the board?

>>3122537
i have gotten many good crits here. you guys are shit posting.

>>3122554
maybe cuz ur bad? haha

>>3122555
nice trips which could be true because i never give my self any credit anyway. so i will respond with :

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Gesture Battles, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on CalArts, and I have over 300 confirmed projects. I am trained in gesture warfare and I’m the top illustrator in the entire industry. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will erase you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of artists across the /ic/ and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that erases out the pathetic little thing you call your art carrier. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can draw you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my pencils. Not only am I extensively trained in unsharpened pencil gestures, but I have access to the entire arsenal of my pencil case and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable art carier off the face of the industry, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

>>3121410
>>3121429
Fair points. I did see some people who were at least willing to learn.

>>3121235
>when giving critique, tell the person 2 things theyve done right and 1 thing they can improve on.
we literally do this to juniors when working. we nicknamed it "sandwich feedback". we also do this to particularly difficult senior staff that cant take direct feedback.

start with something good, then focus on feedback and the important part, then end with another compliment.

>>3121225
That's not constructive criticism though. Just saying what was done good or bad does nothing for the artists growth. Saying what is wrong, explaining why you think so and suggesting a way to fix the problem and improve the image is what constructive criticism is. You can be negative as fuck and still give a useful and constructive critique. Just saying what's good won't help, unless you'll explain why exactly do you think so. Hugbox mentality only creates delusional egomaniacs, as well as negative mentality creates cynical assholes. Though cynical assholes have a better chance of improving as well as committing suicide.

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>>3121613
>Strawman arguments
Do you even think, bro?

>>3121235
There are no two words in the English language more harmful than "good job"

>>3121890

And if the shoulders aren't either, do you say the torso is so that you don't hurt their feelings?

Saying what they did right isn't a requirement for constructive criticism. I'm not personally autistic about it the way /ic/ often is is, and I think there's a place for praising someone's strong points, but it's not required to offer constructive criticism. It's a bad definition in the OP, that's all.

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The problem isn't the person giving the critique. It's the person receiving the critique.

>>3121579
This sort of stuff falls on deaf ears because most of the board is either too young, or has no experience whatsoever with giving good constructive help.

To anyone who has worked professionally in a team setting, each individual has their own strong points and weak points, and not everyone will know what you know and vice versa.

So what Andrew Stanton says is probably the kindest way to educate people in what you know while figuring out how that specific individual thinks.

Your ability to communicate feedback to other team members is a tool that gets sharper over time.

>>3121579
>Sometimes you talk about the problems in fifty different ways until you find that one sentence that you can see makes their eyes pop
If only they were actually that patient. Most people want you to stop talking and say it's okay by like the third sentence.
>inb4 they weren't gonna make it anyways anon

>>3123633
Whenever I've given a well thought out critique the response has always been positive. I've never heard of someone ignoring a critique because it was too long or too in depth, in real life or online. People are appreciative when you put in the effort to work with them in an effort to help them improve. I think you're the one afraid of having their time wasted, which is fair because not everyone will be compliant with criticism. But it's simply wrong to think people don't have the patience to read through critiques, especially on a board this slow.

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>>3121312
Coward anon haters leave