How do I cure myself of my dunning kruger? Everyone keeps telling

>>3119297
Make an effort to learn how to critique other people's work properly. Maybe that will open your eyes.

>>3119297
post your work and i'll give you an honest opinion. no trolling

>>3119297
I'm a pro artist who lives off his work and people still tell me I'm shit

>>3119305
Well to be fair it's not impossible to live off your work and still be shit.

You're surrounding yourself with toxic people hence why you can't take them seriously.

Maybe if someone reasonable criticised you your DK will get better.

Or if you see people with a higher level of skill getting shat on, that's how I got rid of mine anyway.

>>3119297
Stop listening to your ego and start thinking about ways to improve what others call you out on

prove that dunning kruger exists

>>3119331
Jazza

>>3119340
single best example there is

if multiple people comment on the same issues, you likely have an issue.

>>3119324
>toxic
back to rebbit, friend (:

>>3119331
The real matter is, prove when Dunning Kruger doesn't affect you anymore.

What about when other people say your art is amazing but you think it's shit?

>>3119528
That's called being an artist.

>>3119297
Look at some art you really admire or at least admit is really good, like an old master.
Attempt to copy it.
If it’s not comparable, then you have to admit you’re shit.

>>3119297
Well, /ic/ is especially hard on everyone.

You'll probably be recieved better by the lower standards of, let's say your friends and family, BUT if you want to be good, you should aim as high as possible. One of the perks of pursuing visual arts is, that you will never stop learning and you can always improve. That doesn't mean you have to constantly compare yourself to others, just try to do better than you did yesterday.

To your question - does it really matter this much what 'everyone' thinks about your art? As long as you have fun and feel that you're improving, I see no use in thinking too much about the opinion of others. Approval is nice and can be motivating, but it shouldn't be the reason why you're drawing in first place. It's a reward. And believe me, you'll be much happier to recieve genuine interest in your work, knowing that you put a lot of work and effort in.

If you think your art is already really good, chances are, that you're suffering a bit from dunning-kruger. I'm not saying you should hate your art or feel bad about it, but you have to be at least slightly dissatified with your work in order to have the motivation to improve. That's why a lot of professionals still strive to improve, look for sources to learn and keep an open mind - because they know they are not half-way where they could be.
Of course, these are generalizations. There are people who are and where always confident in their art and happy with their outcomes and still managed to improve to a high skill level, but those are few. Considering so many people tell you your art is shit, they probably have a point. So if you want to actually get good at drawing, stop denying negative feedback and start accepting your mistakes and begin looking for solutions by research and practice.

tl;dr Don't care this much about what others think about your current skill level and aim to improve.

>>3119340
It got him pretty far though. His viewers gave him a shit ton of money for a "shed" and he even did a collab with proko, the dude who trained at watts for like 10 years. His dunning Kruger is irreversible at this point.

>>3119297
Wrong board to ask. /ic/ is so dunning krugered they genuinely believe their criticism of proko and jazza is valid and justified

>>3120164
ikr Jazza is really good.

>>3120164
How is their criticism of Proko and especially Jazza not valid and justified? Jazza is objectively a bad artist and Proko embarassed himself trying to draw from imagination, thus has become a prime example of what will happen if all you do is study and draw from observation.

I get you man. We aren't retards, it's just that there are certain words that seem to stick like old post-it notes.

The first step is admitting you need help. Just like coming to terms with going to therapy, you need to first admit that where you are at right now, is not ok. It's not the best. And you need to admit that toughing it out on your own will only lead to your ruin.

Which is true in almost every case. People who stubbornly stick to their own way are on the fast track to doom. Look at chris chan. If you're thinking "well what about winston churchill or any other fighter type personality" i think its a different ballpark.

>>3120183
> prime example of what will happen if all you do is study and draw from observation
That's a wrong conclusion. Drawing from observation is key, if you want to draw from memory/ imagination. You can't build up a visual library from nothing. Proko did three major mistakes, or rather miscalculations, in his attempt to draw from imagination, but learning to draw from observation wasn't one of them. First, he almost exclusively studied the human figure, thus his enviroments and animal (dog) anatomy are lacking. He should've practiced some dogs before drawing the comic. Second his color game is really weak. He is good at drawing, but has no expertise in painting and it shows. Third he simply did not apply his skills; I don't have an explenation for it, but I guess he somehow assumed comics don't need the same thought put into construction or he was thinking too much in symbols.
Of course, and that should be said, to get really good at stylizing you don't only need a good grasp of the fundamentals and be able to draw from observation, but refine - and I dare to say it - your style, by studying other artists and making conscious decisions about your art.

Proko is a good teacher, especially in his field of knowledge, which is figure drawing. He studied most of the important figure drawing instructors and had great teachers of his own. He is a great source for beginners to get into figure drawing. He has the ability to break down complex content into managable chunks and thus makes the concept of things such as gesture or landmarks, as well as anatomy, easily accessible to any newcomers. He also mentions his sources and provides beginners a stepping stone to go research on their own and do some self study.

Dismissing Proko is one of the biggest mistakes of this board, if you ask me.

(cont.)

>>3120164
>JAZZA
i agree 500% that no one here is at Proko's level, but fucking Jazza? gtfo.

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>>3120194
http://www.stanprokopenko.com/portfolio.php

>>3120194
>Jazza is objectively a bad artist
First of all, Jazza is not an illustrator, he is an animator and does quite well in that regard. Furthermore, Jazza not an art instructor, he is an entrepreneur and entertainer, and again, he is good at it. He knows how to sell himself, he how to let his fans participate and how to motivate them. His audience are not art students, it's hobbyists and he presents his content in a non-threatening, non-judgemental and easy to understand way. He actually explains some fundamentals and I don't think he does any harm to hobbyists. His drawing style may be unappealing, but the things he teaches are not wrong per say. There are better approaches, but people watching Jazza rather take an easier, more fun route.
He is a very charismatic and sociable guy that likes to be in contact with his audience. You don't subscribe to Jazza to learn, but to feel good and have fun drawing. It should be clear /ic/ is not his audience.

Shitting on Jazza is just being mad at your own shortcomings. You can make money with subpar art, as long as art isn't the main thing you're selling. Same goes for animation, comics, etc.
Just being good at art will get you nowhere if you have no product to sell and/or no story to tell. (Unless you're exceptionally skilled. But there are nichés in between. This board likes to think there is only drawing furry porn or being a concept artist)

tl;dr The criticism of Jazza and Proko is petty and injustified

>i agree 500% that no one here is at Proko's level, but fucking Jazza? gtfo.

lmao can you show an example of someone on this board better than Jazza please?

>>3120198
And /ic/ is delusional if it thinks its better than Jazza.

Most of the board cant get themselves to do basic construction lines.

Don't kid yourselves.

>>3120199
Oh, alright. I take it back. He can paint quite decently.

Still, his drawing from observation is NOT the problem with his stylisation. Him spending not enough research on the subject matter is.

this board is fucking hilarious

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>>3120207

>>3120205
the merc_wip is better than jazza.

>>3120208
its a great place to be.

>>3120208
>this board is fucking hilarious
the bait is repetitive and boring

>the merc_wip is better than jazza.

for real, though. if anyone's got someone let me know.

>>3120224
just go into the self promo thread when it gets full and you will see.
imo most of the people here are better than jazza. jazza sucks.

>>3120227
>imo most of the people here are better than jazza. jazza sucks.
>>3120208

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>>3120228
how can you disagree?
this is the mans avatar.....

>>3120228
i wouldn't say most, but a good chunk is better at drawing than jazza

>just go into the self promo thread when it gets full and you will see.
imo most of the people here are better than jazza. jazza sucks.

of what's on the 'post your work thread 3106805 was the only person that was in Jazza's technical realm. Jazza's style isn't very appealing, but he has a fair amount of technical ability. Anyone who thinks that most of the people on /ic are better than Jazza is just revealing their own lack of ability.

>>3120250
you would be incorrect.

I think that a bit of dunning kruger helped me in the earlier intermediate stages. I would have given up if I realized just how shitty my work was back then

>>3120253
no I wouldn't. I know my shit, shithead.

>>3120257
That's totally accurate. You have to think you're good, even if you're not. It's often necessary for your drive.

>>3120258
yeah ok....but jazza -is- worse than most of ic outside of /beg/ teir people.

>>3120268
show me some shit lol! give me a direct link. im about to unplug, and I'm definitely not about to try to scour for what's on /ic again right now.

>>3119528
>>3119543
It's called networking

>>3120275
you dont have to look hard.

>>3120278
Yeah, and I won't. give me a specific thread or link or gtfo.
from the amount I observed, it'd be <1% that's at the same level. I didn't see anyone above.

lol I fuckin hate Jazza's art too...here I am defending it. If you can't recognize tech, you don't have tech- end of story.

>>3120293
too late for that.

>>3120306
*shrug* jazza still sucks.

>>3119297
>just exaggerating or trolling
so what if they are? If people respected your work they wouldn't be making fun of it

That's not to say there aren't good artist that people dislike -- but its usually for reasons outside of the work they produce

>>3120239
>>3120250
>>3120268

We can agree to disagree on whether or not we find his style appealing. I think he over exaggerates the living fuck out of it and I'm not a fan personally.

The thing is, even under his massive heads and cartoony shading, he has a good understanding of what the fuck is up. I don't see someone who is ignorant - I see someone who is intentionally restraining themselves.

His decision to draw this kitsch, but somewhat appealing shit is what nets him 1.8M youtube subscribers. He isn't technically handicapped, he's found a market and he's milking it.

/ic/ on the other hand can't choose to do shitty artwork, because /ic/ doesn't have anywhere near the experience and knowledge that someone like Jazza has in order to consciously make the choice.

And in business/marketing, /ic/ has nothing on someone like him. Absolutely nothing.

It wouldn't surprise me that once he's done with this train of toony shit that he switches into something more soulful that shows his abilities. But for now, he's milking that tit for all it's worth.

Now quit larping you fucking NEETs, and learn something from him.

>>3120600
Oh, you mean Jazza just chose to draw in an unappealing, bland style and use horrible rendering in his paintings?

How could I have not seen that. Silly me.

>>3119305
I'm pro too and I think what I made 6 months ago is shit.
Keep going and you'll see what they see.

Remember the FZD girl getting $450 for that messed up mammoth.

>>3119297
Choose a high benchmark of objective quality, then it should be easier to see how far you're progressing. If you like to work in line, compare your work to someone like Kim Jung-Gi or Moebius. If you like to paint, compare yourself to Ruan Jia, Sargent, Leyendecker, or Mullins.

Until your work's objectively as good/better than theirs, you're shit. Problem solved.

>>3119297
When you start accepting that you suck you will be cured

>>3120287
Go away, Jazza

>>3119297
study metacognition. Once you realize that people who are aware of their mistakes are able to learn better and improve quicker, you'll be more willing and more eager to notice and correct your mistakes.

>>3119297
You aren't good.
You never will be.

Take a look on ArtStation. Take a look on Instagram. I assure you that you are not as good as you think you are, and you never will be. That's just how it goes.

Accept that your artwork is never truly good enough. Always accept critiques, don't take them personally, and just know that critiques are to make your image BETTER (unless it's an obvious troll or vague comment). You should feel honored that people are taking time out of their busy lives to look at your piece and figure out what will make it better. If you don't care what others think, you're stunting your artistic growth and wasting everyone's time.

>>3119324
Yeah, I can't take people seriously around here anymore because of this. There's the "post your work" bullshit often spouted and when you actually do post it, people here often immediately just shit on your work without giving any constructive feedback. The anonymous nature of this board really doesn't lend itself well to constructive criticism and just leads to people shitting on others' works out of their own insecurity. There are a few decent people here but the negativity around here is why I don't really bother contributing much critique anymore. I found more growth by connecting with other artists in real life more than anything.

>>3121099
>Yeah, I can't take people seriously around here anymore because of this. There's the "post your work" bullshit often spouted and when you actually do post it, people here often immediately just shit on your work without giving any constructive feedback.

It's almost like that was their intent...

>>3121099
>found more growth
lmfao post work, let's see the growth

>>3121075
while this is true, just saying yuorself that you're shit all the time really doesn't help you draw much.

There is at least a topic every couple of weeks with some guy in tears that trashes all his drawings because they are fucking garbage. That is like the opposite of the no progress Dunning Krugers. One doesn't progress because he isn't challinghing himself, the other doesn't because he basically depresses himself into a halt.

I guess a healthy mid-way is the best way, where you look in both direction to see the progress you've made and to remember yourself of the road ahead. Or at least that is what is working for me.

>>3121122
that's when you pull the merc_wip card

>>3120202
>Jazza is good at being a whore.
Way to prove a point.

>>3119297
You should post your work. Forget Dunning Kruger. 'Work - critique - work' is the ONLY way to improve.

>>3121222
Yep you got it right, there is a balance.
I just find that dunning krugers need to see what it means to be completely opposite. That way they can find a middleground like you said, since they can recognize both ends of the spectrum.