>want to be an artist (illustrator) my whole life >learn

Where did you get this 20k a year per average meme number? Illustrators make just as much as any other normal wage cuck. 60k and up.

>>3061268
>Illustrators make just as much as any other normal wage cuck. 60k and up.

>The IO surveys show, that most artists with an income level of 1000 Euros a month or less are beginners. They make up at least a third of all survey participants. The survey also shows, that from the age of about 35, the number of artists in the industry drops and dramatically at that. Many don't make it past the first years, because they didn't earn enough, which is due to a lack of luck, lack of customers, lack of contacts, lack of business and marketing skills, lack of artistic skills or because they may live in a place where business is slow or because their chosen branch just doesn't offer enough jobs and they may not be capable of artistic diversity or stylistic versatility to compensate that.

>In turn, companies know of the hungry artist. Some keep their money offers low because they know they can get away with it and because many artists will be glad to get any work at all. Poor financial backing and a lot of cheap competitors weaken their ability to negotiate good conditions. In many cases this will only add to a low income.

>>3061263
>>learn that you have to be dedicated as much as a surgeon but at the same time earn less than 20k a year per average
that's assuming you even land a job

God you people are so FUCKING WHINY. Just DRAW. How fucking hard is that? Every 2nd thread on this board is some bullshit reasoning about how it's pointless to draw.

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Face it, a starving artist is not only a phenomenon, it's a common thing. You spend at least 5 fucking years to get to the point to earn literally any money and then you are not even guaranteed to land any job.

This industry is pathetic, everyone is laughing at us: musicians, writers, everyone. We are a fucking joke to every creative endeavour there is.

>>3061282
Musicians and writers have it just as bad if not worse than artists.

>>3061279
yes goy, join an art school and we will give you a nice, big debt that you wont be able to pay for. Yes, drawing is so good for you, even when you cant earn a paycheck yes yes

>>3061285
How so?

>>3061289

You don't have to go to art school
Any type of art be it music, painting, animation, sculpture, writing, etc.. is a gamble, you're not entitled to a job. You want money, study a stable career.
And if you want a job git gud, nobody will care if you went to CalArts or whatever if you have no skill of any kind

>>3061263
>wants to be an artist
>doesnt want to put in the work
you have to ask yourself if you actually DO want to be an artist or you just want a hobby

>>3061297
Trick question because you can't know until you make it.

>>3061297
Yes, I wage my life on it and I can't really do anything else at this point . Seeing that artists get so little pay makes me feel worthless, that I should just kill myself, because even with my full dedication or whatever I wont be able to earn enough money to sustain myself.

>>3061285
>Musicians
Sort of depends. You can make out a pretty decent living with classical music performance if you're a workaholic and addicted to beta blockers (and don't play violin or piano). If you're doing jazz or trash music, then you probably need a day job.

>writers
It sort of depends on what you put under the umbrella of writer. The average creative writer is probably going to have it bad. But you can definitely make a fine living as a technical writer for a trade magazine.

Even Magic pays like shit

https://www.vandalhigh.com/blog/2015/7/3/the-problems-with-artist-pay-on-magic

>>3061263
I recommend you do what I do and keep a day job. Right now I work a lot more than 40, but in a few years I will only have to put in 40 hours a week at work and will have 40 to 60 hours left to paint.

I know it doesn't feel like you have that much time when you work, but if you are excited to get home and paint it wont be a big problem. If you are not excited enough to push it then you can just keep it as a hobby and there is no shame. Don't feel like you have to make it your career to have time to paint.

>>3061326
WHAT? You work 40 hours a week and still find the time? Teach me

>>3061329
some people find painting funner then playing video games and shitposting. If you don't, ngmi

>>3061333
>you have to find it fun to make it meme

>>3061335
How is that a meme? I legit find drawing the most fun thing to do, I look forward to it every day at work and draw constantly whenever I'm free. And I'm not even good

>>3061326
What about those people that chose it as a career path?

>>3061345
I don't want to crush any dreams here, but if you are not supporting yourself with your art you have to make money some where. If you have family to lean on that is fine, but you should consider how long that will last. Don't end up on your ass.

>>3061348
I am still a beginner but I've kinda lost faith in it because the payoff after all this hard work is very low it seems. It's not encouraging at all.

>>3061377
Why did you start in the first place? To be able to draw whatever you want when you have the chance right?

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>>3061294
>>3061289
>>3061279
>>3061272
This is why I went into STEM and paint whatever the fuck I want. Feels good.

>>3061422
>enjoying STEM
Why is brainwashing okay?

>>3061423
>me
>being brainwashed
>[and also a wage slave]
Hey, that's for future me to worry about. All I know is I'll be working a high-paying job in a field I already had interest in, and I'll be able to do art studies on the dumb shit I enjoy. And sustain myself. Isn't that the dream? Art as a means to life loses its meaning to me. STEM is freedom.

Freelance (drawing shit you don't like for money) just sounds like it would be a job, except you get to draw.

I admire that musicians can make money just writing the shit they like.

Freelance (drawing random shit you don't like for money) just sounds like it would be a job/chore, except you get to draw.

I admire that musicians can make money just writing the shit they like.

>>3061422

pls no bully, I would give you my lunch money but I don't have any

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>>3061423
I know this is bait, but there are probably a few people who legit dont know what that means.

Science Technology Engineering Math

>>3061429
>tfw too dumb to STEM
STEM and art seem like they go great together. I'm glad you're living the dream.

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>>3061263
https://youtu.be/qY_wUAMPFIM

>>3061263
kek
are you drawing to get rich?

>>3061263
You have to be a really shitty illustrator to earn less than 20k a year. That's the amount of money Sakimichan makes in 2 weeks.

>>3061433
>>3061434
You can do the latter as an artist if you use patreon.

>>3061449

Is that Solas, from Dragon Age?

>>3061429
>Wage slave 40 hours a week
>Isn't that the dream?

Christ

I remember when the community wasn't split up like it is today and how it managed to get together to fight injustice towards artists back in 2002-2009. This whole career is doomed due to everyone thinking we're in a competition and being too far up their asses to realize we're kin. It's us against everyone else trying to exploit artists but the hivemind just can't comprehend this. To most people it's mostly "me against other artists".

This profession attracts people with massive egos and it shows. It has ruined industry wages, it'll ruin the entire career.

>>3061675
>This profession attracts people with massive egos and it shows.

that rings true

Well I'm just putting my own idea out here. I figured if I were to get started I would startup an art page on like instagram or something. Never used tha bitch but most people do. So if one can build up a big enough support base there then step 2 can be begun. Patreon. If you target the online audience instead of those in your surroundings you infinitely expand your reach. Alot of artists make greak money on Patreon. Just look up Sakimi chan. Over $25k a month from Patreon alone.

If you want to be an artist, you're not going to earn enough to live and you're better off finding a dayjob.

If you lower your expectations a bit and do artisan's work, making commissions and porn, you can earn a living while practicing drawing and gaining mileage while searching for something better; like this you don't have to work 40 hours a week in something non related and you can experiment with forms, styles and techniques. Trad commissions are always really popular, and you can mine gold on furries while getting better and better.

Obviously, if you're not humble enough to lower your expectations a little, you're going to be hired in an unrelated field that will hinder your progress. But this is your choice.

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>just draw 16 hours a day bro for 10 years
>oh btw. you have to find a REAL job, you can draw as a hobby tho, isnt that great?

>>3061833
Sounds like the dream to me

I am actually surprised that this issue hasn't been adressed more here. I guess you just keep thinking that drawing is the most important thing and if you keep doing that, while avoiding topics like this one, it's going to be fine.

But what are you going to do if it turns out that being an artist is actually really hard? Do you have to experience borderline poverty in order to talk about it? Those who want to invest 3 or more years into this should at least know that it's not going to be pretty. In fact, if you truly understood the whole thing, you would choose another career path, because I don't see /ic/ as disciplined, passionate people. You just draw because it's "fun" and maybe "someday" you will get money too!

>>3061315
" When most card games pay $125, they are actually paying a far larger portion of the project’s gross income back to the people who helped make it. The slice of the Magic pie that gets side aside for paying artists and writers is insignificant."

Am I reading this wrong? They make $125 per illustration? WTF?

>>3061926
It's not much considering you have to be at least somewhat skilled to do this, also you won't get 2 gigs a month with magic, maybe.

>>3061927
LOL not much? That's fucking peanuts. You can't even begin to live on that.

>>3061930
I know but I have to be sure, because people on /ic/ tend to be retarded and $125 would be enough for them to survive a month in their third world country.

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>>3061263
Sometimes I go quite awhile without drawing. I've been drawing all my life but I'm not the type that can spend all day practicing anymore. I've recently come to the conclusion that it's because I need to really want to draw something in particular (and it's gotta be challenging) to not only motivate me but to also keep my attention. I know that means I won't be doing it as a career, but after seeing what other artists are like working mall security and moving into a trailer park is starting to look real good to me in comparison. That and it would be nice to never have to shell out a thousand dollars or more on a decent tablet.

The take away here is that you have to decide for yourself if it's worth the almost inevitable poverty because making thousands of dollars a month via patreon isn't typical. What did you want to do with your tallents in the first place? Tell stories? Draw anime girls? convey ideas? Are any of those things worth that to you? If so get to work. The fact is if you truly love what you're doing you'll accecpt anything people are willing to throw at you. This is the one thing my father taught me - he's been a mechanic all his life, and he still works on his friends cars (for free mind you) despite nearing 70 simply because he loves doing it. I always mock him and call him a sucker but deep down I know it's because I don't truly love anything I do.

meanwhile however - at the other end of the spectrum - you have a lot of posers here who just want to make money off of porn and treat art like a business. They're the types who come here and bitch about people who make way more in donations than they do and then turn around and berate people that don't want to donate to anyone.

If that doesn't sound like a good deal to you, go to your local mall and see who's hiring. Because nobody is obligated to give you shit.

>>3061926
WotC pays 600-1000 per mtg card.

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>>3061675
I too remember how ca.org and others got together during that copyright law fiasco. Felt like a community.


What happened to artpact? Seems like that didn't work out so well considering the latest article is years old.

>>3062046
That sounds more realistic. Still shitty though under the circumstances.

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>>3062038
>Because nobody is obligated to give you shit
Programmers and musicians and whatever shit are obligated for their job when they finish their education. But somehow an artist wanting to land a job is being privileged, okay.

One way to make people pay for your art is to create a demand for it. But how? I don't want to do some experimental shit or something that I have 0 interest in, how do I create a demand in let's say fantasy art? Creating my own IP? Combining it with overly rendered pieces?

I don't want to fucking starve after all this work.

>>3062450
>do a lot of fantasy art that people like

>>3062450
Draw what you enjoy (so fantasy I guess), but not generic shit because then you'll be replaceable.

Active social media and interaction with people will take your further than your art will sadly

>>3062467
>Active social media and interaction with people will take your further than your art will sadly

Why do people follow others that much? I never understood why artists get traction by being active and posting stuff everyday, which makes sense, but I still don't understand why this is that much important.

>>3062502
Makes them feel part of something I guess

People are social creatures.

>>3062211
what's there more demand for faggot? It's not artists.

>>3062502
So the way twitter and instagram works is that, if people follow you and like/heart your stuff, it shows up for their followers too. Twitter is a bit more complicated but the idea is the same.

This means that the more followers you have and the more you post, the easier it is for other people to see your art, and then they can decide to follow you if they like it.

Basically once you get engine rolling and you have constant updates, your growth can be very very fast, especially if a few top artists with a lot of followers notice you and basically allow you to get introduced to their followers.

>>3062450
porn, niche fetishes

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Is an hour a day of practice enough to become a decent artist?

>>3063170

Yes, if you're steady at it and keep realistic expectations. 'Decent' to you and I might be different things.

I average an hour a day, I'm at 2.5 years and I think I'm decent (which is to say I make art I personally like now and then). Still intermediate, it'll be a way off before I'm even close to pro-tier, but it's definitely going in a forward direction.

If you expect to be pro tier in a couple of years, no it's not enough.

>>3061263
>you have to be dedicated as much as a surgeon

pretty sure none will die if you screw up a drawing.

>>3063261
You have to be dedicated meaning you have to endure every pain that comes with learning to draw. You have to overcome all doubts, defeat all that stress and other shit.

It's really easy to doubt yourself if you find out that you may get less money as a lowest wagecuck, when you had to learn a lot.

i'm just gonna draw and keep drawing because i like it and i want to improve. whatever else happens, happens. i'm alright with dying doing something fun, rather than living a boring life.

>>3062046
>>3062074
make that 600-1500

>>3063398
>fags will still think that isn't enough

bernie sanders 2020 amirite?

>>3063398
So someone who worked for Magic says $125 and you without any evidence claim that its 600-1500. Maybe its true for a senior artist.

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>>3063473
Shut up, fool.

>>3061423
STEM is my real passion personally. I'm incredibly smart, can't waste that on being an artist

>>3061306

>Musicians
>Sort of depends. You can make out a pretty decent living with classical music performance if you're a workaholic and addicted to beta blockers (and don't play violin or piano). If you're doing jazz or trash music, then you probably need a day job.

I'm a cellist, and I can assure you that virtually no classical musician pays his rent by playing in orchestras or by doing concerts, most of the income comes from teaching (usually to children). Composers have it even worse, so much that they can't literally earn anything unless they pick up conducting (unless you live in a metropolis there is no way you'll earn enough to support yourself by teaching composition, counterpoint, harmony, etc.).
If you're in a band it is even shackier, especially considering that most non-classical musicians do not have the competence to reinvent themselves, which means that most bands will crash after 1 or 2 good albums.

>writers
>It sort of depends on what you put under the umbrella of writer. The average creative writer is probably going to have it bad. But you can definitely make a fine living as a technical writer for a trade magazine.
If musicians have it worse than illustrators, writers (and especially poets) have it worst than every other artist. No, the side-jobs you're thinking about have disappeared decades ago.
If you want to be a writer or a poet full time (which is the only way, if you're serious about it), just accept that you won't ever be able to support yourself nor you'll ever be able to have a stable family. It is that fucked, and it will only get worse, in ever artistic medium that is not directed specifically at teenagers.

t. 30 years old musician, have talked with artists all around the world for my entire life

>>3063848
That's... that's a bit too sad.

>tfw this is the world you're living in

>>3063912
>a bit too sad
You don't even know how bad things really are yet.

>>3063914
Explain yourself, please.

>>3063848
>writers
It is true that writing is the worst out of them all. And a lot of writers won't make it, however your chances of making it does depend on what type of writer you are, and how you market yourself.

I know a lot of genre authors making fantastic money on with ebooks (some breaking 6 figures). Kboards is a good place to start if you want to read a lot of success stories, or need help getting started. If you write literary books, you are pretty much shit out of luck even if you traditionally publish.

I also know some people who are successful with technical writing as well like that other anon mentioned. It is probably the most stable writing job out there, and a lot of companies are in need of technical writers.

>>3061263
you gotta be a little bit retarded to ever bank on a 'dream'

if you want to be a realist then you have to organize your god-damned priorities. if money/time ratio is a big one then there are other rat races always going on.

>>3064079
the "follow your dreams" narrative is all because women are allowed to teach now. It's easy for them to do so because men are willing to throw them everything they need to succeed.

>>3064088
back to /r9k/ friend

>>3064095
back to the kitchen :^)

>>3064088

'tips funny looking head gear'

>>3063793
>I'm incredibly smart

>>3063473
>>3063492
no response?

>>3064121
>using asterisks instead of meme arrows

back to tumblr.

>>3061306
>depends
>depends
>depends
>depends
yeah, everything depends, it ain't any different for illustrators and whatnot.

>>3062050
Is there any way to revive something like this, even if only on an /ic/ scale?

>>3061263
Depends. How hard are you willing to hustle? That's the key, along with talent, for your earning potential. Unless you take a staff position, which are fewer every year. But the top freelance illustrators make considerably more than a surgeon, with the right agent and market and talent.
The top example are movie poster artists - the guys who do blockbuster movies, the big ones, make over 100K per poster, but they work on them for months, sometimes. I personally have met two - and both of them did one or two a year, and did whatever they wanted the rest of the year, because they get paid so well. Guys doing direct to TV/DVD movie posters make a lot less, but if you get your name out there, you'll make a lot more. That field has been decimated by photography/photoshop, but there's still a lot of work left.
There are no guarantees, in the art field. It all comes down to you, and how hard you're willing to hustle, or how much you're willing to pay others to hustle for you, if you're no good at it. It's like any profession, nobody is going to seek you out or hand you work, you have to go out there and get it.
I figured it out in college, and started taking freelance work while in school, to help pay for it. The idea freaked some of my classmates out, but I didn't see the problem - I could do the work, and I never took on more than I could handle, and the people hiring me knew I was in school, and didn't care.

>>3061282
>You spend at least 5 fucking years to get to the point to earn literally any money
Nonsense. If it took you five years, that's on you, bud.

>>3061329
I've worked full time as a designer and illustrator most of my career, it's just time management, knowing what you're capable of taking on, and your boss being okay with it.
I do art, professionally, and as a hobby. I'm going to be drawing and painting in my free time anyway, why not get paid? My day job pays the bills (very well, too), and my freelance buys me stuff like Cintiqs and new computers and gear.

>>3066333
>The top example are movie poster artists - the guys who do blockbuster movies, the big ones, make over 100K per poster, but they work on them for months, sometimes
What's so hard in doing a movie poster though

>>3066342
LOL. That's why you'll never do one. They go through multiple versions, they do market research, you work on a team, who are looking at every aspect and angle of it - how it reads from far away, or on a billboard, or on a DVD box. You have to deal with agents approving how their stars look. It's a process they spend a shitload of money on, and they want people who can pull it off, work with everyone, and make a poster that grabs the eye and makes someone think "I want to see that!"

What's so hard? Go try and get a gig doing one. Find out.

>>3066350
Whoa, are you in the industry anon?

>>3066350
I just wanted to know, because I am a beginner, thanks.

In the internet age artists can make money
nobody's gonna know you comissioned $500 a piece furry porn while building up your resume to get a job at a good company

>>3066350
Yeah it's similar to Book Cover artists. Yes there are tons out there, but the good ones know the market so well, that their cover alone will sell you books. Remember that when it comes to art and marketing, the best design is the one that can market the product best, not just the one that looks good.

>>3061285
Musicians and writers have potential to become famous people worth millions

An artist's best hope is a comfy job at a studio...after 30 years of living in a shithole

>>3066333
Damn, living the dream. That we all at /ic/ may one day achieve and shoot shit together on our time off.

>>3066337
>professionally and as a hobby
Saying it so casually like that, makes me jealous

>>3063793
You aren't smart, and it's obvious by the way you talk

>>3063848
I dont think there is a single person alive today making a living solely from poetry

>>3066809
Maya Angelou

Lyricists are essentially poets, who set their poems to music.

There are thousands of poets who make a living selling books of poetry.

>>3066355
Not the movie industry, no. I've worked freelance for years in the music industry and book industry, and a lot of the people I know and work with have social overlap with the movie industry. It's easy to have that happen, in entertainment.

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>>3061329
You can get a low paid job doing shift work, early mornings or late evenings. That gives you a significant part of the day still to do art.

>>3061439
thaaank you

Does it really matter how much money you make? You do art cuz it should be some passion shit, not "wah i have no money because my art isnt making the money i want"
Youre an artist right?
Youre creative right?
Learn to make it work

>>3068856
I need money because I live in poverty and I want to experience stuff. I am not autistic enough to live in my basement my whole life and be happy with it.

>>3068683
what the fuck is her name

>>3068856
Some of us want to raise a family someday

>>3064421
Id rather believe pete who is down to earth than noah the cuck bradley who has to copy himself in order to draw a human

>>3068924
Get a second job ya jagaloon

>>3062038
>deep down I know it's because I don't truly love anything I do.

I feel you, I want to do art because its the only thing, that Im better than average at.
I dont think I have passion for anything.

>>3070007
>it's actually possible to have no passion for anything
It all makes sense now.

>>3061263

I went from wanting to being in 3-4 years. I'm DEFINITELY NOT as dedicated or hard working as a surgeon. I've probably spent more time playing vidya than drawing/working. Make around 30k being a very lazy artist.

>>3070100
>being very lazy lets you make 30k in 3-4 years
Sounds good to me.

>>3063793
tfw to intelligent for art

Learn how to sculpt marble and other stones and become a good classical painter and open up a studio. A sculptor I know that I bought a sculpture from is making several hundred thousand a year.

>>3070426
No

>>3071201
Then don't bitch that you aren't getting paid for your "digital" "art"

>>3061930
You really think freelance illustrators work on one project at a time, and only do one or two pieces a month?

Freelancing means hustling. Freelancing means your goal is to have a couple months ahead booked solid, and with enough work each month to pay the bills. An agent helps here. You're also not going to survive doing one genre of painting, you'll need to get out there and hit up art directors for everything you can find - editorial work, advertising work, packaging, whatever you can get, to fill your schedule with. And, in the beginning, you won't make enough to survive, so you'll need a part time job at least, to cover the bills, and eat a lot of ramen. That's IF you have talent and a style art directors are looking for.

Nobody is going to come looking for you. You have to hustle, get your name out there, and work your ass off to show that you can be counted on to deliver art, as commissioned, and on-time.