>Hey anon how do you learn to draw? >Oh lol all you gotta

>>3023962
All I can read here is
> i don't want to practice

I "made it" (ie make a living by drawing) & I repeat the advice.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uwaXKU7ev6Tw_or__o8ARpUb6r2rCZYJGqwSFV9AD98/edit#bookmark=id.15jx3pyuimvj

What a stupid thread.

>>3023964
You've been giving a lot of people terrible advice then.

The point I was making is that if you tell a noob to practice, they'll just practice more of the same cringy shit they already practice. Noobs are asking for direction, and you aren't giving them it.

>>3023973
We cant baby everyone who wants Advice.

Practice is the right answer.
I tell them to look up the fundamentals and practice at them.

>>3023988
I always just tell them to go use reference when they draw, but now that I think about it it might be better advice to tell them to do grid drawing or even tracing to help get out of symbol drawing. Grid drawing is how I got out of it at first.

>>3023962
good point. as a beginner I was told only to practice and not given any other information as to how and what, so I just mindlessly drew whatever for 2 years until I found /ic/ and learned about the fundamentals here (it's now been another 2 years since then and i've tripled my improvement since).

i'm not entitled enough to feel like someone should have taken an hour to explain things properly to me though. it's a lot of shit to explain and hardly anyone is going to take the time to do it for a random noob because they left you a comment like "how did you get so good?". the quick answer i "Oh lol all you gotta do is practice practice practice"

Because to give you a proper answer they'd need to take a bunch of fucking time and you're not the center of the universe, artists have shit to do that doesn't revolve around spoonfeeding you.

>>3023971
This, just read the fucking sticky

>>3023962

>hey anon how do you become an electrician?

If you don't realize that nobody is going to take the time to give you the requisite education that takes considerable training to become proficient in in the span of 2 minutes, you're too stupid to take it up anyway. If you ask a question that took your fucking peabrain ten seconds to think up, you'll get an answer suited for your fucking peabrain to absorb. If you want better answers, think of better questions.

If you're LUCKY someone will direct you to a resource (IE the sticky) that has already taken the time to give something to work with. To expect anybody to take hours out of their day to coddle your retard ass reeks of entitlement.

>>3023962
>This tells nothing to someone who is seeking direction as to how to practice
>how to practice
Ok then

1. you put a paper on the table
2. you take a pencil in your hand
3. you draw on the paper

>>3024026
let me use that analogy.

>hey anon how do you become an electrician?
>That's a silly question, go to a trade school, or get an apprenticeship or something.

>hey anon how do you knit?
>Go look up tutorials on youtube, that should teach you.

>Hey anon how to draw, art tutorials I find don't help much.
>just practice lol

>nobody is going to take the time to give you the requisite education that takes considerable training to become proficient in in the span of 2 minutes.
you don't need to spend a lot of time saying stuff. just say something quick like "go look up how to stop symbol drawing, and start with that, and then move on to using reference."

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>>3024041
>Okay, here's what I drew, how is it?

>>3024048
blog?

>>3024048
looking good, now do 1000x times more and come back

>>3024041
>Can you give me a critique XD?

>>3023962

It's an ambiguous answer, but it's because you gave an ambiguous question.

You didn't present your art or interests to them, so how can they give you any direction at all? It's like asking 4chan usees for driving directions to Atlanta, where we don't know where you live to begin with.

Have the humility to showcase yourself and your interests. I can tell that you're arrogant from your perception of artists, you'll go nowhere with that attitude.

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>>3024072
I think you are misunderstanding something, I actually already know how to draw (more or less). I just don't like the fact that other artists are retarded and give terrible advice, because that's what made it harder for me to learn in the first place.

Pic related.

honestly, the only way you're gonna make it is if you love it and work constantly at it. don't pussy out, show us what you have for us to critique. we can't give you any advice without knowing anything about your style and development. Also, if there's a certain subject you need to improve, I watch a LOT of youtube. Try to find favorite artists, and inspirations.
But practice DOES make your art better, cause no matter what, something will be "practice" somewhere. you can't just draw a face once then never draw one again, right? so draw the face again, with the intent of making it look better. Speaking of, practice is necessary, and many artist skirt around it without realizing. For example, they hide their hands on the character, or don't draw backgrounds. A shitty thing is better than a nonexistent thing. Please keep that in mind.

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>>3023962
>I don't want to put in any effort to get a skill
Jesus christ are you retarded.

>>3024083
I agree with just about everything you said there except the youtube part, because youtube's step by step tutorials are straight up cancer.

once again though, telling someone to practice doesn't give them proper direction. Telling them to watch youtube tutorials is bad direction (because there are a lot of shitty youtube tutorials). Telling someone to read the sticky, well that's what I'd unironically call top quality direction.

i'm not saying you shouldn't practice. I'm saying that newbs need to be directed. Telling someone to read the sticky is a good example of direction.

>>3024078
cool, just submitted an answer and then this showed up. If you want specifics on critiques, then I'll give it to you. First off, the lineart is thick in all the wrong ways. It looks like you turned off pen pressure and traced it with the stabilizer off. I know the feeling of being stuck without pen pressure or with a shitty program, but you can always use the eraser or white pen to "taper" the ends, erasing the thick point at the end of a line. Like the hair, that is what made me think of it. The brush is a bit too big in most areas, and that makes the details look confusing and sloppy. I like where you're going with the details though.
The next issue that I see is the anatomy. The face is a bit crooked, and the ears don't line up properly, they're too high up. the head is also too small, it makes the thighs look HUGE. The arms are ok, but the arm on our right confuses the fuck out of me. it's kind of going at an impossible angle, like it bulges out of the sleeve like it's dislocated. She has hips for DAYZ, so unless that is your intent, you might want to make the thighs be covered more, or move them up or something. Also the way the skirt flares makes them look large as well. Her foot is a literal blob. The bat wings are also blobs.
All in all, you need to fix that damn lineart, and work a bit on some anatomy correction

>>3024093
Sorry, when I meant youtube I didn't mean jazza or baylee. I mean like, china digital paint and timelapses and streams in general. Stuff that doesn't tell you what to do, but shows you what they do. Then you watch carefully to see how they do what you like about their style. For example, if I was watching someone paint in photoshop, then suddenly they went and warped everything in a cool way, I'll try to see which buttons they pressed, and their technique.
So ye, don't be a lemming that falls for the first 20 videos on how to draw, be redpilled to the way of artsu. Be a skeptic, and critique what the youtuber is doing in your head, and use what they do right as a partial lesson

>>3024048
>no table
>no paper
>no pencil
>no hands
It seems like you are having trouble with this.
Maybe you should study graphic design instead.

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>>3024103
yes, if you're anything above retarded, even if you don't have hands, it's a perfect job for you. Hell, use MsPaint or Word. Only plebs use photoshop.

>>3023962
If any anons here would like to answer, what books or sources did you used that helped you become a better artist when you were a beginner. I read the sticky, but I would like to hear other anons answers, did any books suggested from the sticky helped you?

>>3024116
I liked using the books that helped me on the way of achieving my goal in art. Maybe you can read the books that have something to do with what you want to draw. They're all great books, but interesting to different people with different goals.

>>3024116
Andrew Loomis' Figure Drawing for All Its Worth

other than that it was lots of doodling, drawing from life, copying other artists and doodling

In other words, fucking practice.

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>>3024099
Oh hey this is my first in depth critique. You know I've always wanted to ask for one, but I never did. I always felt I could critique myself just as well and so I shouldn't waste others time, even though I frequently felt like asking for one while I was a baddie.

>It looks like you turned off pen pressure and traced it with the stabilizer off
yeah I made it in anondraw, and they don't have pen pressure or layers, and the first little nudge of the pen is fucky, so it was a bit weird.

>but you can always use the eraser or white pen to "taper" the ends
Yeah, I actually did it for some of the hairs, but I dunno, originally I wasn't planning on tapering for any of them. I kinda just wanted to leave all the lines as the same pen size, but then I erased some parts and thickened others, and ended up tapering some anyways.
it's the same reason why the face uses such large lines.

>The face is a bit crooked
Agreed, I have a problem drawing different directions for the face, needs practice :(

>ears don't line up properly, they're too high up.
Don't see what you mean. they aren't normal human ears, and ears generally start at a height just on top the eyelids. Actually I think I see what you mean now, but I still think it's fine.

>but the arm on our right confuses the fuck out of me.
I agree, I didn't put enough care into that one. I recall somewhat halfassing it because I wanted to finish.

>the head is also too small, it makes the thighs look HUGE.
>She has hips for DAYZ
I don't see what you mean at all. Her head, thighs and hips don't look big at all to me, although I do wish I went with more sailermoon esque proportions.

>>3024048
Its a start

>>3024172
I don't know if you realize this, but I posted that ironically to highlight the garbage people would "practice". I'm actually this guy >>3024078

OP is right and this thread is an absolute shitfest.

If you pick up piano, everyone will tell you about the importance of structured learning, consistency (20 minutes a day, increase with time) and how hard work can outweigh lack of talent, but when it comes to visual arts it's all memes and utter ignorance.

If you "just practice", you'll either waste years of your life or worse, pick up - and through practice reinforce - bad habits that will fuck you up. The beg thread is full of this, people studying anatomy left and right without knowing anything about perspective or form.

>>3023973
It's not our fault if you're too fucking stupid to know how to practice drawing of all things. You grab a pencil, a piece of paper, then either draw shit in your head using references (if you're drawing a girl on a bike go find pics of girls in poses that you like and pics of a bike in the right position for your drawing) or do a study of a drawing (finds drawing you like and replicate it without tracing). Studies are good for learning how to put a composition together and if it has color you learn a lot about how to color with whatever medium you use.
Practice means is drawing as often as you can, draw new things, try new styles, try new mediums, push yourself out of your comfort zone. If you aren't confident in hands make yourself draw 5 different hand positions. Don't be afraid to suck, everyone sucks at first unless you're one of those super smart autistic kids. If a drawing isn't turning out don't throw it out, identify what's wrong with it and start a new drawing keeping the bad one nearby so you don't repeat a mistake, take a pic of the drawing and flip it horizontally if you think something looks off but you can't put your finger on it.
If you couldn't figure those things out yourself/too lazy to look into them then you're never going to make it.

>>3024278
okay but when I first started drawing, I wanted to learn anime. I looked up tutorials on youtube, and none said to use reference. It took me several years before I finally learned to actually use reference, and then actually started improving.

Point being: Not every beginner knows they're supposed to use reference, and I am a living example. Part of the reason why I want to make drawing tutorials is simply because I wanted to get the word out that hey, you gotta use reference.

What reinforces this lack of knowledge is the retarded misinformation that artists like to spread by saying "all you gotta do is practice".

Dude just draw lmao

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>>3023962
>let me waste time explaining, in detail, a step by step process to become proficient in the arts, to some asshole who will probably drop it in a week
no thanks

>>3024294
How did you not know to use references? It's common sense, 'I want to draw a dog, but I'm not sure what a dog looks like. I'm going to find a pic of a dog to draw from' or 'I really like sailor moon, but I don't know how to draw her body so I'm going to go through my manga books until I find a pose I like'
It's not something artists think to mention because it's such an obvious thing to do, like I'm sorry you didn't realize that but why would someone think to say that? And along with the 'practice practice practice' monologue artists drone about we also say shit like 'draw what you see' and every kind of basics tutorial or write up says to draw objects in your house to learn basics of shape, composition, and shading.
On the topic of references, if you don't know, there's no shame in using as many references as you need. Professionals will have giant files full of things they use frequently. A comic artist I really like will post pictures of WIPs and one drawing of a girl on a motorcycle will have 6 reference pics in another window with pictures of motorcycles, jackets, clothing folds, color palettes, pose references, and a color palette. I usually have 5-8 reference pics when I do a large digital painting and have close to 2000 pics saved that I've thought at some point 'oh wow I really like how this is drawn, I'll save this for later'.

>>3023962
OP i'll answer your question. Effective practicing is really simple but a lot of people don't admit to this because they're stuck up insecure posers.

You just have to copy, copy literally anything you like, copy it then copy something else, keep on copying things and you'll improve at the fastest rate. This is how all the Asians do it through rote learning. Just copy

>>3023962
What are you talking about?

You have the sticky which is a compiled comprehensive how-to-draw. You have recommended books where the best teachers literally wrote all the best advice they could give. You have hours of free videos online demonstrating how to draw. You have people here who will answer your half-baked questions with useful information or critique your crap beginner drawings.This place is a goldmine of information as long as you're not lazy.

If you want someone to teach you step by step, get a tutor, join a class, pay somebody to spend their valuable time breaking it down for you. Otherwise, be grateful that you have all of this free no strings attached information that literally tells you how to learn to draw step by step. It might not be perfectly tailored to you but what do you expect to get from an anon message board.

If you actually try and put good effort, it will show in the drawings you post. People will notice that and will give you useful feedback in turn. Still, you can't expect them to tell you, a random anon, how you should practice step by step. Nobody likes to waste time.

>>3024304
please be my gf

does her goggle strap say 'anon'?

>>3024304
who is this grill....

frig im not explaining this properly. I knew to use reference and copy, the problem is that the way I copied was half assed. I treated it like it was something to be understood as a concept rather than to be learned as a skill.

>>3024320
I know how to draw lol, im just complaining that artists give bad advice.

>>3024326
Outside of 4chan do you tell people to go look at the sticky? or do you tell them to "Practice practice practice"?

>>3024294
Okay I'm going to rephrase >>3024278 because I fucked it up.

I looked up tutorials on youtube and none said to copy, they just said "draw an anime face in 12 easy steps!". Instead of even properly copying the tutorials, I just listened to what they told me, as though drawing was a concept that could be understood simply through words, and not a skill.

Eventually I did learn to copy, and how to copy properly, and that is when I started improving.

Point being: Not everyone knows to how to properly copy. What reinforces this is that artists, instead of telling people to copy, or telling them to look up how to get rid of symbol drawing, they just tell them to practice.

Thing is no amount of practice will help you if you're stuck symbol drawing and not copying properly. You have to do it to get better, and artists aren't telling noobs that.

>>3024326
Also if you do tell people to use the sticky, good on you, because you're actually giving them direction, unlike when you just tell them to practice.

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>>3023962
Did anyone else read this in squidward's voice?

>>3024304
Just tell us. Even on 4chins they give lazy just draw lmao advice even though some of us will stick with it.

I wish I was told about perspective when I was beginning to learn. It literally changes everything.

>>3023962

Because any answer other than "just practice" increases the liklihood of them clinging like a child to you for advice constantly increases 1000%. Its a short easy answer that gets people who arent going to make it anyways off your back.

/thread

>>3024366
I did now

>>3024048
Cute! Good job anon!

The easiest way to start drawing is to copy. Copy illustrations, comics, manga, photos, from life, etc. How many of us started drawing because we copied, or traced a picture of Sonic, or something as a kid? As kids, copying is seen as normal, but for some reason people shame adults who try and copy to learn art. So I say copy what you want to draw, then you will start finding ways to produce that type of work on your own.

>>3024015
Exactly and more than likely if you do spoonfeed they will go home and draw naruto on their lined paper while scoffing at you.

Beginners love to think that there's some kind of secret to getting good and someone can just tell you something that will make all your gains from drawing multiplied 100 times.
There isn't.
You just have to practice and figure everything out on your own.

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>>3024525
I know you're being disingenuous, because I actually made that drawing with a mouse in like 2 minutes. It's in greentext, because I posted it ironically.

>>3023962
Okay OP, since I made this >>3023964 comment I've drawn (work + practice) for 7 hours and made $410 (fees ~350 after fees).

How much have you done?

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How drawing works.

>Baawww I'm not a good artist because other people don't correctly tell me how to become one.

Go fuck yo mother. I swear if I read this shit one more fucking time. The world doesn't owe you shit cocksucker. Figure this shit out yourself and if you fuck up you fuck up, but you don't go around blaming others for your own fucking shortcomings like some coked up cocksucker that just got his ass handed to him, you understand me

>having a hard time making the switch from drawing out of passion to drawing out of discipline
advice?

>>3024927
Just keep drawing for passion more?
C'mon anon, this question answers itself.

>>3024928
It's not really a passion project when you have to draw something you're not really into. Be it a commission or just some aspect you're not great at. I guess if >just draw more is the answer I guess ill have to try that though. thanks.

>>3024042
So I guess "go read the sticky on 4chan's art board" would be an acceptable answer?

>>3024943
More or less.

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>>3024851
good for you, it's nice to see artists with some business sense. I'm just a hobbyist though so I don't make money off of it.

>>3023962
Because it's literally fucking practice. You need to start drawing before any kind of tutorial will help you, if you're dedicating any amount of time to drawing it's not hard to figure out what you need to learn. An hour googling things and checking out art forums will give you more than enough resources. You don't even need to ask, hundreds of people have already asked your questions and written guides for them.


It's called self teaching for a reason, if you want spoon feeding then shell out 50k to some shitty school or find a new subject to learn.

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>>3024910
redirecting you to >>3024078
Also it's just common courtesy. You don't need to explain much, just say "Go read the sticky".

>>3024476
don't /thread yourself you fuckin dingus

>>3024927
draw for like 20 minutes (or longer) every morning after getting out of bed, steadily increase workload as you get more capable of handling the stress and better establish the habit.

>>3024943
yeah that's actually what i'm saying.

>>3024979
>t. anon who never met a shitty artist who couldn't learn

>>3024981
>the excuse-maker

>>3023962
>how to practice
>what to practice first
drawing is not a science you sperg
Every artist is different and has different habits
what you do is simple
You take a pencil or a tablet and you doodle whatever comes to your mind/follow any fucking book in the sticky
If you're inspired, draw from imagination, if not do observation drawings from life or ref
Make sure whatever you draw has a purpose. If it looks good, try and find what you did to make it good. If it looks terrible, try and understand why it does by always looking at the basics
I'm sure you already fucking know what the basics are :
construction, rendering, perspective etc...
there is not one way of starting drawing
Do you even like to draw? If not, you're going to have trouble becoming good at it...
Ask yourself the right questions, dummy
what do I want to draw?
line drawings? comics? painting? illustration? pencils?

Without an answer to this question and no real desire to doodle anything before in your life, you're going nowhere

>>3023962
I'm pretty sure that the sticky gives enough direction.

>>3023962
a fool who persists in his folly will become wise

/thread

>>3026629
>>3025258
>>3025212
This is what it's like argueing with you people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ud1JXqGWPvU

>>3024308
It's common sense... to artists. Most noobs think that you're supposed to draw purely from imagination, and that referencing = tracing = cheating = bad art.

>>3024713
This is objectively wrong.

There are lots of early advantages that make it easier to draw later on. If you're so autistic you keep symbol drawing you may learn some degree of line control and construction, which makes it easier to jump to referencing and studying from life, which is where the real gains come from.

9/10th of gitting gud are building up a wall of autism to self/outside critique so thick that you become convinced that you can draw, which gives one the strength to grind for months on random crap. Of course 9/10ths of actually becoming a good artist are undoing all that ego, which is why /ic/ is so full of insufferable asshats.

>>3028118
Most noobs are incredibly stupid? Really? You don't have much faith in the human race do you.

When I was starting out it was pretty obvious to me the difference between looking up how something looks like and autistically tracing the lines.

>>3028128
i was fucking stupid when i was a noob
i'm still fucking stupid, but better

>>3028118
>>3028132
I was like that too, there's a lot of misinformation in art.

>>3028128
No, I just get that not everyone has artist instincts. That's great if you did back then anon, but most people don't. They see a pretty picture and assume the artist just put lines on paper and it came out real pretty.

>>3023962
Ask a lazy question, get a lazy answer.

The information required has been repeated ad nauseam, to the point where it seems like a meme, its not hard to find.

>>3028156
not really for artists outside /ic

>>3028148
I sometimes wonder if it's on purpose.

>>3028160
I was able to find that shit almost a decade ago when I was 16, if you're too retarded to use google then this isn't the path for you.

>>3028409
I was 7 when I first started trying to learn how to draw.
also anime is different from realism; it's a little more obvious that you have to use reference for realism.

>>3023962
People who actually know how to draw won't give you those kind of critiques.

>>3028450
apparently you haven't seen the people in this thre-

oh, true.