Is there any book or video or website or person that can teach

>>2957282
ngmi

>>2957282
Vandruff maybe

Bump this Shit I want to know too

>>2957282
assuming that you know all the terminology, you can "pivot" an entire perspective grid around the station point and transfer the VPs to the new horizon and it will look coherent.

>>2957319
Shit thanks man. This has been eating at me for longer than I'm willing to admit.

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>>2957282
?

>>2957346
what book is this?

>>2957346
This is great, thanks!

>>2957351
Gwen White perspective book, its in the book thread

>>2957335
why did I say transfer the VPs? brain fart, that's for creating multiple sets of VPs on the same horizon

in this case you can make a whole new horizon as long as the SP is consistent. You can draw an incline starting from the center of vision (where SP and horizon meet) and make sets of 90° VPs using the station point as a pivot as said before

If you have a vertical VP you can transfer it over to the new grid with a compass.

>>2957283
Say that to my face and see what happens you punk ass bitch

>>2957282
Checkout perspective for comic book artists by david chelsea

>>2957371
Think my English is failing me a bit but I'm gonna give this a go as I understand it, thanks again.
>>2957384
That post isn't OP btw. I'm probably ngmi but I'm having fun.

>>2957346
What the fuck who has time for this shit

>>2957477
ngmi

>>2957477
NGMI

>>2957477
just spend a lot of time doing it the long way so you can develop the skills to do without taking as long?

>>2957282
I never even thought of this before and I dont really understand it. anyone have a step by step or a vid?

>>2957477
>who the fuck has time for art

just quit already m8

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>>2957346
>try to read this
>eyes glaze over in a few minutes and thoughts drift to video games and porn
it's over, my neuroplasticity is dead

>>2957386
Holy shit no, that book is pure cancer and it will set you back with its terrible shitty instructions. Scott Robertson: How to Draw is actually good and it's made by someone who actually uses the method he preaches.

>>2957482
>>2957486
>>2957502
>>2957524
Yeah, that's why Da Vinci didn't make it, because he didn't understand the power of perspective and boxes. Your station points, vertical "horizon" lines, 90 degree vanishing points, picture planes. etc can all suck my penis.

Although looking at the picture a little closer, it actually makes sense. Basically, for tilted boxes, you draw a vertical horizon line, with new 45 degree vanishing points for two sets of parallels from the tilted box. I basically do this already, except without plotting out the VPs or all those angles, if you have a good understanding of boxes you can just freehand them in unusual positions, though the perspective won't be 100% accurate unless you do all that extra stuff. Who has the time for that though?

>>2957583
Yeah but it doesn't go over what OP is asking about

>>2957607
I do. That's an unfortunate side of my mental state; if it seems simple I want to over complicate things by knowing why and how before I move on.

>>2957676
once you understand chapter 2 of how to draw it's pretty clear how the station point works and what you can do with it

either way the chelsea book is garbage

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>>2957607

>>2957607
>>2957845
Rekt.

>>2957583
What's wrong with it? I've seen good artists recommend it and the only place it actually gets shit on is here. Have you read it/what specifically is wrong with it?

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>>2957477

It's just a box with the horizon/eye level tilted.

Is this a meme thread? I can't tell. You mark points of interest, draw straight lines between them and then you have your guides and it is never anymore complicated than that unless you want a warped perspective.

>>2958044
i think for a lot of us the problem is just that, the image ends up looking warped without being the desired effect.

>>2958061
Then it's probably just a issue that arise from a refusal to use tools to make the initial lines 100% straight.

Like 80% of the construction of your drawing is set up with the initial lines. If the construction and first perspective don't add up then you will just spend the rest of the time polishing something that is fundamentally wrong to try and make it look good. Some people can get away with an initial slobby start since they don't let the lines on the screen guide them but instead have learned to look beyond them. If that makes sense.

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https://gumroad.com/krenzcushart

Krenz Cushart has some excellent tutorials on exactly this, rotating a cube in perspective. In case you're too cheap to buy his stuff, I'll give a basic rundown.

You rotate a square by getting the midpoints of each side and drawing a diamond, right? That's a 45 degree rotation.

Well, you can get the quarter-points and join them up like that, and you get a 22.5 degree rotation. You can do it again for even smaller rotations, if you want.

Now, just draw a cube. It doesn't need to be perfect, but it should be close to a perfect cube. Just wing it.

Then, get a mid-points. Do the same as above, but join up the "diamond" to the other edges of the box.

You can do the same for quarter-points, too.

Of course, this is rotation about the vertical axis - if you want rotation about the horizontal axis, just do the other side of the cube.

I attached an image to better explain it. Apologies that it's not really accurate in terms of perspective, it's just a rushed example. I highly recommend checking out Krenz's tutorials, though, as they go much more in-depth than this!

>>2958098
Doesn't that shrink it though? How do maintain the same sized cube but rotate it?

>>2958044
Thank you! I don't get /ic/'s fascination with all this crazy perspective stuff and 90 hour video courses when all you really need to know is what's in your post.

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>>2958108

It does shrink it, but generally you're doing this to get the rotated perspective grid - after that, you can just use one of the methods detailed in this thread to limit the size, or just wing it.

Normally winging the size should be fine in most cases if you've done a bunch of perspective practice - getting the new rotated perspective grid is the hard part!

>>2958112

You need to have a handle on perspective for everything, but most notably extreme perspectives, such as a bird's/ant's eye view.

>>2958044 states that you just need to have a perspective grid, but what if you need to rotate it a bit sideways? How about up and down? What if you have something attached to that? If you want to wing it, what if you're doing something that's not organic and harder to fake?

Of course, you don't need to be anal about it and use a ruler and make insane calculations, but you have to have a good handle on how to manipulate it to do what you want, even if you're doing it in your head or free-hand.

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>>2958135

>You need to have a handle on perspective for everything

But 99% of the galleries I look through from people on pixiv they don't have a kushart krenz understanding of perspective. They know enough sure, but when does twisting a random box in space come in handy? Nobody uses the station point or cone of vision, either. Your vanishing points are always out so far enough that distortion never even rings a bell. Any and every complex city scape scene is sketched up in blender or whatever.

I'd hate to break it to you buddy but the whole perspective thing on this board is one big meme. You don't need to go through a 90 hour course to understand something is smaller the further it is from you and bigger when it's up close. You have a grid for that. The grid literally does all the work for you. There is a reason why New Masters Academy discontinued Olson's series--it's not a priority. You can download all the krenz cumroad videos you want but you'll never be him.

>>2958135
>perspective grid

No you don't need to start out with a grid. Start out drawing a surface and horizon and then construct the guides you need from that. You don't start out with a flat grid if you need to draw a cube in perspective either and this is no different.

I mean you should be able to draw a singe side of a cube or house, a horizon and then construct the rest of it by using a point on the horizon line without trouble. The initial angle of the cube in this context should be of no consequence.

The rest is just practice I guess

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>>2958154

>But 99% of the galleries I look through from people on pixiv

That's probably because 99% of the stuff on pixiv doesn't have interesting perspective. It's all just really simple stuff, usually only involving one character.

There's a reason why most people are unable to sketch out forms with anything except the most rudimentary of perspectives. Because they think that the whole perspective thing is a meme instead of actually trying to work on it and progress further as an artist.

>>2958203
>Because they think that the whole perspective thing is a meme instead of actually trying to work on it and progress further as an artist.
>the concept of perspective is a meme

I don't think anybody have ever said that and meant it. Even like ever maybe.

Anon. If people are having trouble with perspectives then it's likely because their fundamentals suck. There's nothing difficult about figuring out how perspectives work so if it still doesn't work then your linework is probably just shit.

If you don't take a critical look at your own work and instead think that the solution is just some complicated perspective magic that you need to unlock like in a videogame then your perspectives will keep sucking no matter how much you study complicated perspective sketches.

In that case you would probably learn more from simply tracing the images in the book to feel where your muscle memory is wrong than actually reading anything in it.

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>>2958203
>usually only involving one character
Exactly, that's what everyone clicks on to bookmark.
>doesn't have interesting perspective
A lot of the images have "interesting" perspective like this or it'd be some curvilinear shot of some shrine or shit.
>There's a reason why most people are unable to sketch out forms with anything except the most rudimentary of perspectives.
Because it's not a priority for one thing. 2 any decent perspective class will give you all you need to know.
>Because they think that the whole perspective thing is a meme instead of actually trying to work on it and progress further as an artist.

You'd be right if we were back in the 50s and didn't have Autodesk etc. But you need to realize the industry has changed. People want porn or whatever like they want fast food. You don't got time to measure every intricate angle precisely and nobody cares. Learn techniques that save time but give accurate results. If you spend time on worthless things you're only making your journey to get good longer than it necessary.

>>2958208

>I don't think anybody have ever said that and meant it. Even like ever maybe.


>>2958154

>I'd hate to break it to you buddy but the whole perspective thing on this board is one big meme.

>>2958282
That post clearly refers to a "perspective thing going on on this board" and doesn't talk about perspective as a general concept ("the whole perspective thing") so what's your point again?

>>2958098
>His stuff is on cgpeers last time I checked

>>2958098

Or you can not be a half-assing faggot and just rotate a square around a circle.

I want to understand this.

>>2958586
You don't need to

All this is, is a simplified/loose version of what they teach you in scott robertson's how to draw. If you people had common sense you'd see that.

>>2958607

Take your robertson book and shove it in my dogs shit.

>>2958607
I have that book, and he doesn't go over this.

>>2958607
Scott's book is autism incarnate and is only useful if you're going to get into a line of work similar to his own. Otherwise, you only need to know the absolute basics.

>>2957282
I can guarantee you that all the anons here that are good at perspective can't draw for shit, so don't waste your time.

>>2958614
>not gonna make its' not gonna making it.

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>>2958626
>skimming

>>2958015
I bought it years ago and I couldn't make use of perspective until I got How to Draw instead. It's a terrible book, formatted like shit. Chelsea traces everything in his comics so he doesn't apply his method (he says in the book that tracing is the way to go anyway, mostly with the excuse that all he tried to explain before is "too complicated"), his book was clearly just way to hop on the Scott McCloud bandwagon and make some dosh

>>2958639
Don't you fucking tell me what i need to know.

>>2958015
Like holy shit he says that bridgman/loomis method is faulty and he suggests to draw human figures as "a stack of circles". The fact he had the nerve to spread this cancer to newbies is borderline criminal

>>2958639
What basics exactly? I tried Scott's book and it really does seem super autistic, only useful for people in some niche professional art fields. I don't know if I need to learn much more about perspective, I understand how to draw any kind of box in 1 point/2 point/3 point perspective, I can freehand them easily, I can draw cylinders in perspective, I understand that vanishing points should be spaced far apart (don't understand the stuff about 30/60 degree, 45/45 degree etc VPs that well though, how exactly do you determine the angle between them?), I understand simplification of forms using boxes (furniture, people, objects, etc), I know how to divide a surface in perspective, find the centre of a plane, etc. Basically everything taught in Perspective Made Easy. Do I need any more perspective knowledge? I just want to draw people, interiors, buildings, and some landscapes

>>2958072
Severely underrated post. You won't get any organic shape accurate unless you can map it to its constraining boxes, and you can't do that if your lines aren't right.

If you learn everything about perspective you can redline on /ic/ peoples incorrect perspective and be seen as God. Pretty much the only benefit.

>>2959032
This is the only true thing in this thread. Stop worrying so much anons.

>>2959020
Isn't the question here how to place those lines?

>>2959171
Ehh. If you look at the OP question he's asking how to draw stuff that doesn't match up with the horizon. The truth is that each object have their own horizon line that doesn't match the actual one.

Take a look at a town on a hill. None of those houses on the hill go toward the real horizon line unless they are tilting. The only time you use the horizon you see for construction ideally is on a flat plane.

So if you look at the image in the OP and ask what you should do to draw a tilting house or a house on a hill then the answer is the same as when you drew the other stuff but now just with an alternative (imaginary) horizon.

>>2957583
Wtf, /ic/ hates Chelsea now?

The amount of shitty advice and misinformation on this board makes WetCanvas look like a goldmine.

There's no better example of the blind leading the blind anywhere else on the internet.

>>2959774
misinformation where

>>2959196
And how do you determine how those horizon lines are placed in relation to the station point?
Sorry, not the anon you were talking to, but I'm trying to make heads or tails of what op is asking too.

Really guys, what's the best book on perspective out there?

>>2959952
The one in OP or Scott's one if you've got the basics down and want a bit more.

>>2959952
I liked Marshall Vandruff's Perspective series. The book he used in that class was Joseph D'Amelio's Perspective Drawing Handbook.

>>2960740
That book is aids though

>>2957282
Read this whole thread and noone actually explains how to do this kek

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>>2961227
Alls I got is this but good luck trying to figure it out lmao

>>2959893
Station point?


You just use the horizon line to make the objects distorted so that it looks like they have a third dimension. The reason you may not want to use the actual horizon line is that you might need to get angles right that does not align with it.

The imaginary (as in you don't include them in the finished piece) horizon lines are tied to individual objects and a single object (especially organic) can have several. If several objects are standing on the same flat surface then they share a useful horizon line.

Not sure if that helped.

>>2958154
I wonder how good your art is

>>2957583
One thing that the book has is a understandable way to make a 3 point perspective grid, thats the only use i found from it the rest is trash.

Eyeball it to save your sanity.

>>2957477
Art students.

>>2961227
It was explained
>>2957346
TILTED HORIZONS GOD DAMN IT
>>2958027

Each object has its own horizon line that can be tilted at any angle, creating objects at any angle.

You guys are never gonna make it.

>>2962568
>Each object has its own horizon line that can be tilted at any angle, creating objects at any angle.
If you put HL's just anywhere the pic is gonna look fucked up. It's obviously more than just tilting HL's.

>>2959774
>Oh dear everyone here is wrong! Better mock them all rather than contribute anything.

>>2962746
ngmi

>>2962763
>Mocking those who mock without contributing

>>2957282
Can someone link a video explaining this? I barely understand the question.

I don't have Norling's book anymore but I'm fucking sure I learnt this in his book.

>>2962746
If the objects are tied to other objects. For example a tilted square attached to a square parallel to the ground. Then yeah there is a little more to it.
Things falling/flying/people weird poses are not tied to anything except the cone of vision and distance from the viewer. So I guess you have to keep in mind the cone of vision and distance, but that's it. How to do that is just like any horizontal horizon line.

Don't think I've seen a more chaotic thread on perspective than this kek

>>2960740
>Vandruff
I loved that, but I still feel like I don't know enough

>tfw tried Robertson twice, still 2autism for me
I can't get my head around it. I'll probably try some more in the future but damn his technique is overwhelming.

>>2963732
>still 2autism
Did you watch the videos that accompany the book? Helps a lot.

Does anyone have examples of this? Like a piece with construction red lines?

>>2957282

Vandruff

>>2957297
>>2964071
he doesn't cover it

I'm a beginner, and I started with anatomy. Should I round back to perspective?

>>2962145
Can someone explain the three point diagram to me? I know how to set vanishing points from the book in the OP, but the terminology here is a bit different (station point, use of 90 degree cone)

what the fuck

4/5 point sphere perspective grids. Fisheye perspective etc

>>2966323
What has that got to do with anything?

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>not going through all of the handprint perspective guide
>not understanding perspective down to a science
>not being able to construct and measure objects 100% accurately at any arbitrary angle, proportion, scale or distance in 3-point perspective

I guess some people just don't wanna make it.

>>2966365
It's like this

Associates degree in perspective = entry level
Bachelors degree (everyone has) = the industry
Ph.D in perspective = nobody gives a shit but your mom and the guy at the artist bar where you discuss the flow of the 6/10 chick drinking in the corner and how much you want to feel her forms

>>2966365
>needing a guide to be able to figure that out

I guess one man's common sense is another's mystery. But it makes sense in the way that it is math in its most simple form and some people have trouble grasping math.

>>2958389
Can someone explain this meme for me
>>2958456
this desu senpai

>>2963721
This

>>2957282
drawing from life

>>2966546
Yeah sure, OP will just have people fling themselves off buildings over and over.

Can you just add vanishing points willy nilly?

>>2967629
good thought

>>2963721

It's legitimately fucking embarrassing to read. All of these people who just aren't going to make it because they keep pulling each other down by misinformation and half-assery like crabs in a bucket.

I just read the book in the OP. Ok now what? There's little practical use in this publication

>>2969192

Read it again because you clearly didn't get it.

>>2958212
Can't cheat with pen and paper, son.