I asked this in /beg/ but then I realized it's probably

>>2948452
Proko doesn't chicken scratch you retard. There is nothing wrong with ghosting and going over your lines. You are not meant to draw everything from a single stroke.

It's ok to do it when you're sketching because no one is going to see those messy sketches anyway. It's only practice, you're building skills.

When you're doing a final piece it's important to be able to or at least make it seem like you're drawing clean curves and lines in one continuous line. Roberston for example ghosts it over until he gets it right, sometimes he draws curves bit by bit, but what's important here is the result; it looks like clean, it flows, it shows form.

>>2948452
I think a lot of them do actually use it though? Look at Proko's life drawing and the only thing you can say is it looks very controlled. Scott Robertson same thing with his designs.

Also keep in mind that teachings and things in practice may not align perfectly, since the taught approach is more of an ideal or a good way to think about it. Having cleaner controlled lines is generally something you want to aim towards, even if you are not always doing it due to time constraints or some other reason. Also without practicing those things like ellipses and clean lines, Robertson would be doing way cruder linework than he does at the moment.

Also some teachings are designed in ways that may seem concrete or like how things "should" be, but really it's just shown that way to counteract some common bad habits of beginners, and in reality it's not actually as concrete a rule or approach once you are advanced.

>>2948464
But it's not like he's ghosting or anything like that.

https://youtu.be/lb1WrQp2EAI this video, for example, has him lay in something in an incredibly chicken scratchy fashion. Admittedly, it's very well done, but wouldn't it still count as chicken scratching?

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>>2948469
>https://youtu.be/lb1WrQp2EAI
no not at all
he's building values with small strokes
chicken scratch is this:

>>2948474
So I don't need to be super fucking precise all of the time? Well that's fucking liberating. I was trying to draw every curve in one stroke.

>>2948469
I don't think you know what chicken scratching is. Doing a couple strokes to define a single line is fine. Notice how they are all fairly long strokes and all line up very closely. Especially for an underdrawing this is acceptable and possibly even desired as it helps define things more accurately. Even when he is doing several strokes over one line it is clear what the line is and it's still pretty clean.

Chicken scratching would be doing way too many lines that confuse where the actual line is supposed to be, or would be like if you have a single straight line and rather than do a couple strokes along the entire length you do 10 shorter strokes to cover that distance.

>>2948477
>So I don't need to...
It's art dude. There's SO many different approaches. There's nothing you absolutely need to do.

Are the lines the final presentation or they for brainstorming? Well done lines are for when the line art is the art. No one cares what your shit scribble looks like if you're going to erase it and replace it with cleaner lines or paint. Unless you're doing a live drawing or streaming, no one cares about what your process looks like, only the end result.

That said, if you draw nothing but clean lines for a live drawing, you look much more impressive to your audience.

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The complaints about chicken scratching are about the linework stage.

You need a process to find your forms. Some people chicken scratch for testing shapes and lines. You can use brushes or markers if you want to. Nobody cares.

The more confident you get with your forms, the less you'll chicken scratch. Eventually. With millage your lines become more confident and clean. Get more millage instead of forcing yourself to look clean.

In here, you can see that Scott Robertson uses markers for the underdrawing and finding the proportions. He does clean linework later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlrJsDdvKRk

This is chicken scratching.

>>2948490

That's not chicken scratching you fucking retard.

>>2948508
>>2948508
>>2948508
>needing to sketch
Fucking mortals

>>2948508

Nice potato grip. Is the person drawing a special needs person?

>>2948522
Unless you want carpal tunnel I suggest you to loosen your grip.

>>2948517
There is chicken scratching to find the form and lines. This is irrelevant.

Then there is chicken scratching during linework. This one is bad.

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>>2948508
No it isn't. He just makes a lot of long lines and then picks the ones he likes the most. (Bottom)

Chicken scratching is doing little lines to form a longer one because you're not confident. (Top)

A straight line or curve can be defined by one single stroke. Using several strokes to complete one single line is chicken scratching.

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>>2948548
Another example.

Repeating lines is not chicken scratching.

no rules just tools

>>2948554

Repeating lines with that much variance is still pretty shitty looking desu

>>2948587
How is chicken scratch a tool?

>>2948596
It looks shitty, but it's not chicken scratching.

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The purpose of these exercises are to train you on how to give 100% of yourself doing high level, well thought out, and pre-planned drawing using every last bit out of your artistic toolbox. Achieving the level of drawing as shown in the examples in Scott Robertson's how to draw will make everything else you do easier and will set you onto the path of being able to collapse and skip a lot of these steps while still producing fundamentally solid work.

tl;dr do the fucking work or else you'll suck dick forever

>>2948603
Good for pissing off autists like you

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>>2948603
Lots of animators draw that way because it gives you more control over plane and form changes. I mean, I personally wouldn't even call it chicken scratching because that term implies a lack of confidence in your line quality, but a lot of beginners seem to believe it's a catch-all term for whenever an artist uses several smaller lines whenever they could have drawn it with 1 line.

>>2948894
If you were to ask a beginner why they chicken scratch then they would probably say something along the lines of that it's because they are unsure where to place the line (No matter what others might think it looks like). To some degree that's the same that is going on in your image.

There are degrees of it and at some point it just becomes another artist tool.

>still getting meme'd by techniques

Teachers are just trying to jew you so you'll buy their book. Most of them are trash and can't do proper finished art anyway.

Go watch you any decent artist draw and you'll see them just scribble some shit in.

>>2948477
>>2948469
Imagine he's giving a speech.
There's a difference between clumsily going over the same idea many times because you just can't hit it right, and explaining it patiently, piece by piece - even though it might look similar to someone who doesn't know what the speech is about.

In conclusion - until all the technical stuff like long/short strokes, precise/organic lines, straights/curves are the second nature to you, you won't be able to focus on what you have to say.

>>2948469
This is not chicken scratching you can see him think of every single stroke before he makes them, what the actual fuck.

>>2948477
think of it this way, there are searching lines in a sketch that should be as under emphasized as possible since they are the lines to help you find the proper lines to emphasize (the whole draw thru the form, the resizing the proportion ect.) and then there are also rendering lines which aer to emphasize form thru direction and shading however this is sometimes just a limitation of the pencil since as versatile as it is you rely on some form of hatching in the end when doing some detail work.