To be completely honest I fucking hate drawing, it makes my

Then stop crying and do something else with your life.
We could do with less competition.

>>2925842
Who ever said you must be a pure artist?
Knowing how to draw is a great skill to have. Add it onto some other skill and you can easily become a hybrid that can work pretty independently.
Programming skill + drawing = Game dev
Engineering skill + drawing = architecture, product design, technical sketching
Writing skill + drawing = VN, comics, illustrated books
Singing + drawing = MVs
A lot of opportunities as long as you are willing to look for them

>>2925842
>have to get good for years in order to be able to work
basically any education
>oversaturated market
like every other profession
>shit money
true

Drawing in a vacuum is fun. As soon as I see what other people my age are making and accomplishing, art just induces long periods of self-loathing.

It's confusing.

>>2925884
Yeah, pretty much.
>>2925874
You get good money after 5 years of studying programming or other shit, with drawing you get very little

>>2925842
then fucking quit

>>2925842
Then quit or shut the fuck up and get back to drawing you sack of shit.

At least you realize you hate drawing on a fundamental level now so you can just quit instead of making your way of life dependent on it before realizing you hate it

The only things people can excel at are the things they still love in spite suffering all the objectively terrible things about it. Something where even the suffering is worth just doing it. That's what you gotta find for yourself

>>2925884

The lesson is to stop observing other people's lives and comparing yourself in general. You're stacking your existence up against the brightest single highlights of other people's lives

Depression rates rose with social media for a reason

>>2925887
Only if you're bad. Drawing has a much higher ceiling than programming or most other shit when it comes to payment.

>>2925919
Yeah, I know. I just find it almost impossible. I'm extremely self-conscious in about every aspect, but art's my intended future so it hits much harder.

Plus I feel like a big portion of entertainment arts is largely a young man's game. I have to get in early or I'm fucked.

You know you can't quit Man.You tried to, but one week later you start drawing again.. once you started you never go back.

>>2925887
>>2925924

The cream rises to the top in drawing, which would seem odd given the low demand and high saturation, but actually makes a lot of sense. It is a very, very thin layer of cream at the top, and 2,000 miles of imploding shit right below it

In order to earn big money in a market as fucked as this, you need an equally fucked up level of talent and obsessiveness to inspire demand. People drug themselves and and wind up dead doing this for a reason. The allure of making it is just that lethal.

>>2925935

Of course, like in most industries, it's falls short of being a 100% meritocracy. Damn close but not quite. Tools matter a lot, and tools cost money. A well-practiced poorfag who can only take pictures of their paper will get their asses kicked by an autistic 12 year old whose rich parents got them a cintiq 27hd

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>tfw stopped drawing like 6 months ago
>try again
>get really mad
>realize you hate it
>don't draw
>still feels like shit for not getting gud
>aways check /ic/, CA, CD and other art forums

i dont even care about the market i just wanna draw

>>2925944
Maybe you hate this feeling of frustration when your expectations are far ahead your actual level. You just need to keep trying Man.

why do americans break down everything's worth into money?

>>2925842
You dont know how to have fun with your art.

Drawing for me is just a fun hobby, a way to relax and express things I have in my head. I work in applied food biosciences, being able to draw isn't even a factor.

>>2925939
A cintiq is cheap enough that any artist if they really wanted one could get one as long as they saved up their money.

>>2925944
Then FUCKING DRAW

>>2927791
It is a sad reality and a cornerstone for the values capitalistic society imposes upon us. Crawls under your skin, it does, even if it's not particularly true.

>>2927791
Money breeds greed because you have to accept everything has a value.

>drawing to make money

kek

>>2927863
>drawing for free

kek

>>2927791
because in a capitalist society money defines any given things value. pretty simple t b q h

>>2927855
I don't find the notion that you should be doing something valuable to society, which is determined by its economic value in a capitalist society, "sad". Perhaps if you find the idea of having to produce something of value "sad" then you're worthless.

>>2925868

This right here. Most visual novels are so shit that if you manage to write something half interesting you could get some cash. If you can't write for shit you could do like everybody else and pad it with waifus and sex scenes. Game devs are also cannibalising themselves, so if you do something new then it's success.

Don't try and compete with autists in the exact same thing if you can't put the effort.

>>2925842
>getting into any art for the fucking industry
stop drawing and kill yourself instead

>>2927909
/evn/ are pretty dead.
Wouldn't risk it.

>>2927905
>he thinks the arts are real work
LOL

>>2925868
>>2927909
As an addendum to this finding someone else who has a creative skill that you don't to work with, and vice versa, can be extremely valuable. Drawing and art is sort of a solitary creative practice so lots of artists don't think about this.

>>2927924
That's retarded. It's work by its very definition. It may not be the most blue collar nose to the grindstone work, but it is work. Stop trying to change definitions to suit your ideology.

>>2927926
Drawing furry porn doesn't make you a shining asset to the economy

>>2927928
Entertainment keeps the world moving or else people would die of boredom.

>>2927932
Yeah lets keep making absolutely trite shit to please the masses instead of restoring integrity to art
Industry fucking murders any semblance of creative talent in a person, anyone getting into any art medium for a full time job deserves a bullet

>>2927902
>>2927859
>>2927855

>live in 70s USSR
>gee I wonder what gig can my well connected relative hook me up with
>that or some low end unattractive job from the job office list
>make art on the side b/c the state-sponsored pool of artists is rather small and you don't have the networking skills to tap into the right circles
>can't publish anyway because regime will deem it reactionary/decadent
>no sign of anything changing ever

>meanwhile US 2010+
>you gotta earn money to eat, muhfuggin gabbidaliz seesdem

Reminder: shadshit can make a living, everyone can as long as they somehow sustain themselves while doing their thing.

That's the essence of any system from an individual's perspective anyway: provide a service or a product.

>>2927940
>the only alternative to being pro-capitalist is being a commie

>>2927925

IMO it's especially fruitful to cooperate with young, promising musicians. Music often indirectly makes or kills the film/game/animation.

Stop making these fucking threads

>>2925842
yeah kinda used to feel the same way until I got used to doing it more regularly. Now it's no big deal.

>>2927944
Communism was the right way, I don't know why people are so against it.

>>2925842
Leave while you can. Life is about being happy.

>>2927944

Pick your alternative then.

>anarchoprimitivist utopia
>Ogg deeply spiritual caveman
>Ogg want to become shaman so Ogg can paint cave wall
>fail the burning coal thong rite of passage thrice, tfw will never even chew pigment
>burned wang don't work so good, Woh-man leave
>cold, alone, unfulfilled ;_;
>two weeks later moose kick shatters skull, Ogg struggle over

Honestly, most non-capitalist systems will be very illiberal and restrictive, because you need to exert a lot of control to sustain elaborate/silly structures. Not so great for artists.

That or they're very low trust, low investment systems, where specialization is very rare as most people are busy running around pantless, brandishing AKs and reappropriatying the means ofp roduction, Mad Max style. Also not good.

>>2927953
Chasing industry dreams that throttle any chances of you making substantial art isn't so great either.
I remember when I was an 18 year old college-bound cuckold too, hopefully you'll grow out of your grand delusions.

>>2927967
Let me guess, you work as a welder?

>>2927970
kek

>>2927970
Am I supposed to be embarrassed about working in carpentry making £30/hr minimum, working 8 months a year on a whim and being able to go self employed whenever I want?

>>2927967

my delusions:
>provide a service you think there's a clear demand for, just like a plumber, or even as a plumber
>if you amass enough resources you can go do extravagant stuff on your own dime and maybe it'll get recognized or maybe it won't

anon's hard cold realism:
>muh art must be independent expression of my fart sniffing, compromising makes me reee
>world a shit, fuggin capitalism, darkness and despair

Almost all the great works of the past people love to wank over were commissions of one sort or another. When the last word for artists' recognition was transferred to state-run galleries staffed by fellow "artsy" fart sniffers from common social circles all the shitterisms and post-shitterisms started to bubble up.

>>2927983
Are you actually comparing the art industry of the 18th century to ours?
and where the fuck did I say art has to be entirely independent from monetary gain?

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>>2927998

Where did I say you said entirely?

Compromising does get the previous commenters triggered. I'm not intent on guessing who's who or engage in basic bitch nitpickery.

Provide a service and you're good, provide service related to the skillset you're interested in and you're golden.

If you think that without property+market of some kind you'd be better off trying to live as an artist (your product being non-sessential and, lets say, you not being able to lay claim to your work the moment someone else picks it up from the desk), then I can only provide funny greentext stories and try to portray why that's probably not a good idea.

Because, ya know, the other stuff was never tried (tm), so a closer comparison isn't within the range of a chan discussion.

>>2928024

*non-essential

lol

>>2925842
>To be completely honest
>
>I fucking hate drawing, it makes my life more miserable
>
>>have to get good for years in order to be able to work
>>shit money
>>oversaturated market
>
>Why did I fall for this


Why not do it as a part time job if you hate it so much. Don't make it something you HAVE to do. Like a hobby

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To be completely desu...

I only started drawing because I wanted to draw cute and sexy girls.

I'm not gonna make it.

>>2928069
But it's totally possible to draw cute and sexy girls, anon.

Why would you not make it?

>>2928072
I dunno, it makes me feel a bit superficial.
Maybe I'm exaggerating, at least I've been drawing girls every day since I decided to go for it.

But still, it makes me anxious to show my progress outside anonymous image boards.

>>2928076
If it's what you really want, there's no shame in it, anon.

It's fun to post your work though.

It's not like you won't improve.

Along the way, you might meet other people too.

>>2928024
The current art industry is incredibly reductive and is concerned only with plebeian entertainment
Music is a great example of this, not a single substantial and pervasive artist has came out of music in the past decade because of the incredibly low standard for entry, any faggot can record himself slapping his dick on a rock and make some money off it by uploading it to Bandcamp.
Why bother producing serious art when the market is so over-saturated nobody gives a shit and you won't make a cent off of it?

>>2928081
>Along the way, you might meet other people too.
I really hope that this venture will help me with this.
Well, it kinda did already, I had a really nice talk with an old lady in an art supplies store about watercolor.
Which is quite something for a person like me who has no friends and never goes out.

>>2928083

>The current art industry is incredibly reductive and is concerned only with plebeian entertainment

I don't see the problem, if that's the demand you go be the sound engineer or w/e and make money so you can do your niche stuff at your own time.

>Music is a great example of this, not a single substantial and pervasive artist has came out of music in the past decade because of the incredibly low standard for entry,

Without searching much I stumbled onto a bunch of stuff that I consider quite good, some drone, ambient, post rock, folk, trap etc. None are super popular but the artists have no problem subsisting.

Also consider that the distribution model may shift in the future and become more pluralistic than it is now as older folks die out and get replaced by patreon funding internet addicts.

Another thing: I have the impression the Cali-based entertainment industry is stagnating and withering since the 90s - even mainstream shit is substantially less experimental than it used to be - and a vacuum is created. Meaning it may get corrected in time driven by the same demand you complain about.

>because of the incredibly low standard for entry, any faggot can record himself slapping his dick on a rock and make some money off it by uploading it to Bandcamp.

How is this the cause?

>Why bother producing serious art when the market is so over-saturated nobody gives a shit and you won't make a cent off of it?

Nobody demands that you do. And nobody says that you don't.

Actual inspired creators will certainly not be dissuaded by low quality of others' work. Complaining that wider alternative route of exposure is somehow worse than being chocked by the industry bottleneck is just silly. You can still go directly to the label.

OP, why did you want to create art in the first place? Did you have something you wanted to make? A statement you wanted to make? Or was it for the money?

Because if it were for the money, you're barking up the wrong tree. You're not going to find it easily, and if you do, it may not be much to live on.

Don't put money on a pedestal. Get it where you can, however you can, and use it as a tool to support your lifestyle and hobbies.

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>>2925944

Just draw stop worrying about making it your career or whatever if that happens then it'll happen. Self-doubt is poison, sounds like you don't know how to work with your inner critic. This is the problem with being able to see other's art so personally. Just focus on you and what makes you happy damn anon that's like rule 1.

I once read a comic about a girl who just goes, "the sun's out, I feel the fan on, I'm listening to good music, I'm drawing, and I'm content." It's so simple but do you ever really stop and appreciate the practice? You're losing grip on what made drawing matter to you in the first place, that it's just fun and cool to make shit.

>>2927863
>doing something you're good at for free

>>2925842
Drawing is a language. The more you practice the better you can communicate with others.

>>2928629
Good words.

Drawing as a hobby has been so much more fulfilling to me than trying to make a career out of it.

The move from grinding all the time to instead just working a normie job and drawing what I like when I feel like it has boosted my mood. Now I actually like what I do.
I don't get many notes, but when people like stuff it feels better. No more pandering to stuff I don't care about, just a little niche of shit I like that I can share when I meet people and wholly say "This is me".

Not everyone that likes rock music needs to be a rockstar. Some people just aren't meant to be full-time paid artists.

>>2928795
But you don't know until you try right

>>2928083
>Why bother producing serious art when the market is so over-saturated nobody gives a shit and you won't make a cent off of it?
if you're economically motivated to maek thing you're not going to be making art in the first place you fucking retard

>>2925842
he made it.

>>2930204
So artists are never greedy fags?

>>2930204
Not true at all. I know it's literature and not visual art, but all of Shakespeare's plays were commissioned.

>>2930288
i meant in general

shakespeare didn't start developing his ability in writing plays to get BIG CASH

unless you're supremely talented you're going to have to have an interest in the thing you're actually trying to do or the people who actually have an interest in it are going to zoom past by you