How do you learn to paint? I have that light and color book but

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>>2924556

Paint from life, sit something on your desk, stick a lamp on it and go at it, lay down your initial guidelines and sketch the object out, and then start to really think.

>What color do I think this object is?
>What is the interaction between the light and the color of the object?
>What is the interaction between the object and its environment? Is it reflecting a bit of the desk/me/surroundings?
>How is the light changing as it bounces off one object onto another?
>How can I convey this entire scene with just 3 values? How can I simplify it?
>Should I select the right colour for the background first, and then choose the object colour relative to that? Or the other way around?

etc. I prefer life studies because there is less pressure for perfection compared to photo studies and more room for personal interpretation.

>>2924556
you need to understand how values work to depict light. Then understand the relationship of HVS. Then understand shifting color temperature in the context of a scene.

It sounds retarded but i didn't actually know what painting really was, since a lot of old digital workflows were do line art+color lineart. When i realized actual painted images depicted edges with values and not bounding them with lines it started to click.

>>2924569
also look up the concept of local color, and how it really fucks up your perception of color, this is related to color temperature

paint from life
draw from life
sketch from life
everything from life
you don't need any books or tutorials or lessons unless you are using some program.
You just need common sense and a good eye. Bth things you get from drawing from life.

The old masters didn't have many books to study from, they made the books, they made the discoveries. They studied from life and they are considered the best.

>>2924578
>The old masters didn't have many books to study from, they made the books, they made the discoveries. They studied from life and they are considered the best.
what the fuck, Jaden Smith level philosophy right here.

>>2924578
Almost every old master had a mentor, adopted his knowledge, expanded it a little and became the new mentor. It's a very delicate timeline of slowly expanding what humanity knows about art as a whole.
It went on like this for about 400 years until modernists said fuck it we don't care.

Basically, if you neglect books and rely purely on real life, you'll be reinventing a 500 years old wheel.

>>2924578
kys

>>2924578

They also couldn't figure out basic perspective for centuries

>>2924569
So how could I learn this stuff?

OP here, basically, what books do I buy

>>2924628

The best introduction to painting is charcoal. Start with just black on white paper, then as you improve your ability to depict values and edges, start using toned paper with white and black conte.

You can also just jump into monochrome painting. I'd do a mix of charcoal, oil, digital, whatever to keep it interesting. Stick with just monochrome painting for a year or two and you'll get really good at depicting realistic forms.

Once you've really nailed value and edge, you start opening up your palette. You start with the Zorn palette for another year, then you go on to the warm/cool palette for another year, and then once you've got that down you're free to do whatever.

It's just a matter of slowly expanding the complexity of what you have to work with, spending enough time at each stage to understand new concepts and their application. Value & Edge -> Hue & Chroma -> Temperature.

If you really need something to work off of, Jeff Watts has a course for 200 bucks a month.

>>2924641
What about digital painting? Is it possible to learn all that there?

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This is a book about david lafell's techniques. If this board used oil paint, it would already be a meme.

lol i misspelled the name that was on the cover oops Leffel

>>2924659
Would the same concepts apply to digital oil brushes?

A lot of it would, but an oil painting is a three dimensional object. the thickness of the paint, applying glazes and half pastes, the way light reflects through transparent pigments ect. obviously wouldn't apply, but the stuff about composition, edges, understanding what a "concept" of a painting is in a purely visual sense, would all apply, yeah.

>>2924689
I'll buy it. Will it help me close the half a millenia gap between artists who have done this ad nauseum? I want the right practice to keep me up to speed.

But for now, I'm getting it

>>2924653

The same concepts apply, aside from technique specific stuff with physical mediums.

Just do digital paintings in monochrome until you git gud at that, then from there figure out how to make a zorn palette digitally and mix everything you use from that, and so on.

I still think it's better to learn traditionally because you get a sense of tactile feedback, and physical space. You should try to do both. Digital is fun, but you'll probably find after a while that using a pencil or brush just feels better.

>>2924704
how will that help me with colour?

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im not the guy you are asking but mastering value first will help with color in the long run because balancing both at the same time is really hard. value is actually more important because it gives your image form. Once you are comfortable with understanding value, then working in color becomes possible.

>>2924719
how comes people historically had trouble with it without books? is it because they didn't work this way, partially?

>>2924713

You learn how to paint without colour because it's less important than value. Painting is really fundamentally just value and edge. You can't apply colour properly anyways unless you understand value and edge first, because you won't understand how to turn the form. You can slap any colour on a painting with correct values and it will look 'right' to a certain extent. You fuck up the values or edges and your painting just wont work.

The Zorn palette introduces you to colour later within boundaries, so you're not overwhelmed, and you can understand how to apply colour without copying the colours you see. You're only working with a handful of hues, adjusting their value and chroma.

Later the warm/cool palette builds on that and you learn to turn the form using changes in colour temperature.

I know you're thinking 'but I just want to use any colour I want however I want, I don't want to be stuck with these limitations for years'. It's fine to experiment and let loose here and there, but there's so much to learn, the only way to really digest it properly is to learn it in these limited forms, so you can handle each concept without the difficulty of dealing with your lack of knowledge in a more fundamental area.

>>2924556
Get some proper books, such as Speed, and Solomon.
Read online books for free from Victorians, such as John Collier.

>>2924659
The book is useless for anyone starting out.
Also for anyone not wanting to copy Leffel's chiaroscuro style. ie. virtually all landscape painting.

>>2924744
I'm ok painting landscapes, but thanks for warning me.

>>2924736
Not op, but thanks for taking the time to type this out. It's almost as if you knew what type of questions I ask myself as I read.

Great thread.

>>2924653
yeah do a mix of drawing on paper (perspective, anatomy, good draftsmanship) and digital painting. Digital painting is cheap(free practically) has an infinite safety net for fuckups, its a godsend. You remove material cost and the technical hurdles of the medium (drying time, proper mixing) from the equation...the tradeoffs are obvious but you can make quick progress.

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>>2924659
His still lifes are ok, but his portraits are pretty bad, he's not good enough to write a book on this shit.

>>2924578
>The old masters didn't have many books to study from, they made the books, they made the discoveries. They studied from life and they are considered the best.

No need to re-invent the wheel. What they learnt is out there to read.

>>2925175
damn, those eyes are pretty fucking close to the top of the head

>>2925175
"not good enough to write a book" is a kinda retarded statement, hes one of the most famous still life painters alive. His portraits arent the best but still pretty good. Not every painting translates well as a jpg either.

Digital painting books are the kind where it's okay to judge it by it's cover.

And I've yet to see one that isn't absolute trash.

>>2925033
thanks a lot. you guys are bro as fuck

but what about how so many painters took years only to fail in history and needed mentors? you sure I don't need one?

>>2925656
bumping. cause it's kinda important

>>2925656
If you have the money to go to school then by all means look at arc approved ateliers, or colleges that still teach strong fundies. If not, just practice on your own until you actually get somewhere, and then seek out more experienced artists to help you. Some of them are really willing to help. Eventually you might be able to work as an assistant, or get some entry level job, or collaborate on bigger projects, or fall in with an art collective in a big city somewhere and you will have people around you that can push you forward.

>>2926136
So it's that important to have mentorship? Fuck. That really sucks, I want to do the ivory tower approach

>>2924578
The old masters learnt from their masters, you idiot. Art has always been about passing on knowledge, not reinventing the wheel.

>>2925385
Can you even name a single "digital painting book"? Seems utterly stupid to me as most of the concepts and fundamentals taught in any painting book would be the same regardless of the medium you use.

>>2924719
I know separating color and value is technically correct, but it seems a little like separating notes and octaves to me. If you're reproducing a note, you'd do it in the octave it's in.

Like a deep "A" is a note, and dark blue is a color.

OP here, would you guys be willing to give me some advice or feedback on the first painting I've done? Technically could be a wip but I have worked on it a while

>>2924584
listen to this dude tho

>>2926138
eh, you can be a hermit, but try and find someone to explain perspective to you with a demo even if it's over google hangouts.

>>2927491
is perspective made easy a good book to use? I have and studied that

for eye level