Seriously /ic/, do I actually need to know how to draw this sort

>>2902670
>>2902670
>>2902670
>>2902670
LOL

>>2902670
That really is not as complicated as it looks

>>2902670

Yes, you need to. This is the CORE skill. It's like asking if I need to learn the alphabet to learn how to write.

>>2902670
It's called the "[u]Techniques[/u] of Scott Robertson" for a reason. Scott was taught by Cheeseman who taught Olson and Cheeseman's teacher(s) dead people who were in the concept design industry before it was even called concept design. From there passed on to everyone who attended Art Center in the 90s. It just so happened that Scott Robertson got a foothold and patented something as his own when really it's basic information in the advancement of our understanding of manmade perspective on a 2d surface.

File: ok.png (91KB, 476x356px) Image search: [Google]

91KB, 476x356px

>>2902670
I mean, you can try and go ahead and draw those things if you want, but it's probably better to try and learn the basic skills by drawing beginner stuff first.

File: 1478567979803.jpg (81KB, 1914x918px)

81KB, 1914x918px

>>2902776

Quiet, you weasel.

>>2902670
You don't need to know how to draw it, you need to know how to accurately imagine it and replicate it in your mind. once you can do that then your accuracy with drawing anything will improve a ton. Also, having a mix of working from life and doing analytical drawings will probably stoke your gains the best. Get loose and have rhythm on some drawings, and work tight and specific on others. Then, cross over methods periodically. Take the time to think "if this figure was made of boxes, how would they line up with the perspective" and "How to I create smooth and rhythmic curves on this vehicle/ inorganic being?". I think most artists you idolize for being masters have a firm grasp on both, as it's one of the things that really makes a figure feel solid in its environment. Best of luck dude

>>2902670
A lot of great artists would shit their pants if they were given Robertson's book.
So no, you don't need to know it.

However. If you are serious about your art there will come a point where you wish that you already knew pic related. So why not learn it now before you are at that point?
And it's not like the knowledge would hurt.

>>2902888

>A lot of great artists would shit their pants if they were given Robertson's book.

Is this real? Why are people so scared of Perspective? It's not a complicate subject if you pay a bit of attention...?

>>2902670

You just equally divide space to mirror points and connect the dots.

>>2902956
It's a subject that is heavily tied to maths.
Be aware that what is considered basic maths level nowadays was something very few people would have in the past.
So now, people like Robertson have studied the perspective field from the maths viewpoint and can give us 100% accurate proportion, perspective and stuff. They also designed shortcut that are easy to learn and remember.

Meanwhile, old masters, who were also some of the most educated people of their time, had to discover all that stuff by themselves. Observe from life, lay out rules, correct them when necessary. Trials, errors, repeat. 3d geometry wasn't really a thing until late renaissance, and it was still mostly incorrect.
So yes, if we gave them Robertson's book, they would treat it like a gift from God itself. Be grateful to be born in an era where perspective can be put in the 'trivial' area

>>2902956
It can get pretty technical and complicated if you want it to though, and it's one of those subjects that often is not explained well, or is not properly applied over to other areas of art. Just look at Scott Robertson's drawings of people and portraits and you can see all these perspective and form exercises mean jack shit for that stuff,

>>2902670
It's all the same skills you dumb fuck. What you should be asking is "if I want to draw shitty porn, do I need to be a master and use guidelines and shit like in this incredibly elaborate illustration?", the answer to which is no.

JUST FUCKING DRAW HOLY SHIT, LEARN YOUR FUNDIES AND YOU WILL SLOWLY AMASS KNOWLEDGE ON HOW TO GIT GUD.

>>2902986
It's kind of silly to practice extremely technical perspective when CAD programs exist that allow you to create equally quality results while doing all the hard work for you. If you're not trying to draw scale robots with perfect proportions and perspective then you can definitely get away with rough practice and training your eyes.

>>2903002

People here don't understand that this is the Mr. Miyagi "wax on, wax off" training, as in it's shit that does't directly relate to what you want to do but it certainly helps you on.

Once they get that through their heads they could understand why we tell you to draw random 3D shapes, or why the sticky has you draw that upside down igor stravinsky image.

>>2902670
In a way it's easier than drawing humans, you just need to know a few rules and patience.

>>2902670

Robertson is merely trying to explain how to create environments and place elaborate three dimensional shapes within them.

"How To Draw" is about perspective and it is the back bone of creative illustration. It is, however, not necessary to follow in his footsteps.

You should be gearing yourself to creating the art you would like to create.

Robertson's book can help but it is a means to an end. Plenty of people have survived without them.

A lot of people in /ic/ take these "Guides To Git Gud" too literal. The idea is to master fundamentals and make work you would like to make accordingly. You don't need absolute technical mastery in these skills to make the things you want. These are just advancements in those particular fundamental aspects to creating art that are available.

By all means, since this book is free in the book thread, it would be a good idea to at least see what it has to offer you.

>>2902888
>le math meme
Where do you guys get this shit from? You do not need to know anything about math to learn perspective. I keep hearing people tell others that they should learn math in order to do more accurate perspective, that's the dumbest shit ever. No one is becoming a better artist by doing math

>>2903058
>Robertson
>math
lmao

>>2903038
>"How To Draw" is about perspective and it is the back bone of creative illustration

No, it's a clever word play to catch top results in Amazons SEO to rank 1st place when people search for the terms "how to draw" in their book library whilst not really teaching the beginner "how to draw" but teaching a subset skill that is too advanced for the beginner to grasp. In other words a sleezy salesman tactic that naive people don't know how marketing works.

>>2903058
You don't need math to learn the methods and tricks to make a correct perspective.
But how did this methods and tricks were established? with maths.

>>2903065

If you go to a college of design, they pretty much follow Scott Robertson's book even if you are a complete beginner, so I don't know what you're on about.

>>2903074
I am aware of that. I mentioned that earlier.

>>2903081
>complete beginner
oh right, except no, maybe by in their 102 class but not 101.

>>2902956
It's just that if you aren't working digitally, drawing all these helping lines and grids seems really uncomfy. Otherwise it's all pretty basic.

>>2903082
>tfw haven't seen Korean anon who went to Art Center since last year
Must be hell for him right now

Imagine if every art class taught you how to draw like the design industry. Intense training in the fundamentals, highly competitive, no bullshit just skills to make it professionally.

Right now most people go through bullshit everyone is unique creativity is great lets draw blind with a different medium and feel our way through 4 years of no employable skills.

Then most of them get a job completely unrelated to art and never draw again. The ones who actually wanted to learn to draw realise they wasted 4 years and are forced to go to a catch-up course to grind fundamentals.

People want to write Ulysses without learning how to read and write.

File: Tactics Ogre.jpg (2MB, 1475x1930px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1475x1930px

>>2902827
>>2902888
>>2903002
>>2903038
Thanks bros. Honestly, my only worry is that my art will end up looking like this: https://www.artstation.com/artist/scoro

It's not bad, he's obviously a great artist, I just don't want this sort of look for my own art. You know, that "concept art" style you see everywhere on artstation etc. Not my thing, I just want to draw stylized, aesthetic people and aesthetic environments. I worry that all the time I invest into his book will end up teaching me skills that I don't really need.

Pic related, this is basically the sort of style I want for my own drawings. Do I really need grids, ellipse guides, hundreds of straight lines and intricate construction for this? I basically just want my drawings to be aesthetic, and I don't want to be a professional, I'm just a hobbyist.

>>2903970
Your art will not look like that unless you try to look like that. It's easier than it seems to not be like someone else.

>>2903977
How do I stop my art from looking like my art?

>>2904007
You never will be able to. Sorry to let you know.

>>2903970
>Do I really need grids, ellipse guides, hundreds of straight lines and intricate construction for this?

No, you don't. Those hundreds of straight lines are there to guarantee that the construction is as accurate as possible.

Using such a method on drawing people or organic forms would be crazy complicated. You should try Peter Han if you want a more organic drawing style

Be aware it won't be as accurate but it won't really matter so long as it's convincing.

>>2904007
Study the art of another artist and try to mimic them.

File: 5f709b70f593acc9f30f85ec7e66bb47522269d67df6016bb69fb8c83df15901.jpg (166KB, 944x1121px) Image search: [Google]

166KB, 944x1121px

Does anyone have advice on how to do robertson style XYZ drawing without wanting to fucking kill yourself 5 minutes in

>>2904393

Yeah, take Adderall or Modafinil.

>>2904395
is this the only way to get scott/peter han gud?

>>2904859

Probably not, discipline and patience must work too.

>>2902670
I'm an Art Center alumni, currently working as a vis dev artist at Dreamworks. The "cars and airplane" perspective stuff is taught in a first term class called viscom 1. Rendering is viscom 2, and a second term class.

Scott Robertson was my instructor when I took viscom 1 back in 2008. To answer your question, this kind of training gives you very excellent, foundational knowledge to tackle environments, objects, and obviously vehicles. It comes from an industrial design tradition, which is related to (in the sense of constructing form) but distinctly apart from classical training.

It will NOT help you with figurative art. In fact, Scott tried to kill off all figure drawing from his program because he himself doesn't understand and have an appreciation it. To put it mildly, Scott was a controversial person, and a lot of people were unhappy about the way he molded the curriculum around things he's comfortable with.

My advice is to learn from Scott, but also learn from other people. Worshipping just one or two instructors isn't good. 'Worshipping' at all isn't healthy behavior. Always take things with a grain of salt.

>>2905070

Would you say

>Scott
>Michael Hampton
>Peter han


Is the way to go?

>>2905070
post your work

>>2905074
Peter Han went to Art Center , so he got taught by Scott Robertson or at least got taught the same way Scott Robertson got taught.

I'd say try finding people who did not come out of Art Center since a lot of people who come out of that institute will be sort of similar. Michael Hampton is a nice example , since he did not really come out of that school , so you will have a fresh view on how to pursue certain things.

>>2905134

Was all the hard work to git gud worth it?

>>2905134
Don't ignore me you piece of shit. Post your work.

It's common knowledge that Scott taught at Art Center and anyone can look at the syllabus on the website and claim they were an alumni on an anonymous image board to gain trust of naive beginners here. Post your fucking work.

>>2905134

But Peter Han teaches VisCom, which is completely different to Scott Roberson Hardon of industrial perspective techniques?

>>2905134
Hampton still draws like every other anatomy teacher out of California. They teach the same stuff at Art Center as far as I know.

>>2905074
It depends on what exactly you're trying to accomplish, what you're training to become. Also, focusing on just three people is woefully insufficient. This isn't like a diet, or weight training program.

>>2905075
On 4chan? Really.

>>2905134
Not entirely correct. Peter Han's instruction is basically a carbon copy of Norm Schureman, one of the most popular industrial design teachers at Art Center. I took norm's 'dynamic sketching' class the term right before he was murdered (that's another story). After Norm passed, his protege, Peter Han took over the his class.

Michael Hampton is basically a Steve Huston wannabe, and took Steve's class dozens of times. Steve Huston was one of Art Center's main figure drawing instructors, so yes, Hampton very much so comes from an Art Center way of thinking.

Hampton is not a bad artist, but not one of the great ones either. He just happened to be the first to push out a not completely crappy figure drawing book, and people gobbled it up. There are better people to learn figure drawing from.

>>2905146

>Not entirely correct. Peter Han's instruction is basically a carbon copy of Norm Schureman, one of the most popular industrial design teachers at Art Center. I took norm's 'dynamic sketching' class the term right before he was murdered (that's another story). After Norm passed, his protege, Peter Han took over the his class.


Holy shit, so the bug collection Peter Han has is from Norman Schureman? He keeps mentioning that his ''mentor'' gave it to him. Did you ever meet Peter Han? Is Scott Robertson a cool guy?

>>2905146
>Michael Hampton is basically a Steve Huston wannabe, and took Steve's class dozens of times.

Ha, caught you, you little bullshitter troll. Michael Hampton was taught by some other person. I'll find the name later, I believe it was a woman, but basically I was in a Q&A with a "disciple" of Hampton, Nacorda, and for sure I know you're lying. Hell I'll just upload a bit of the video to prove you wrong right here. (actually that's too much effort I'll just find the name and post his/her website when I get the chance).

Again, you're the same guy who keeps deceiving.

>>2905155
Don't fall for it. This is all common knowledge.

>>2905146
Different anon here, but can I ask why you are here? Do you often come to /ic/ or are you passing through? It's unusual to get anybody above low level pros here.

>>2905160
This is probably why >>2905158

>>2905166
You are dumb if you believe a word he says. It's all there on the websites who and what. Just a little reading for 20 minutes and you can sound like you know what you are talking about, and to a professional troll that is exactly what he is doing.

>>2905172

So this is the psychopath from earlier that doesn't want people to learn Perspective? Lmao

>>2905175
Now you are reverse trolling ME telling ME that I'm telling people NOT to learn perspective? Shit man, I must have caught you with your pants down.

You scared me posting that Q&A video? Don't worry, I'll have to rip and censor it because my name will show and I don't want to go to jail to prove a point. I'll just find the name of Hamptons teacher and end you right here. Right now.

>>2905136
I think you're responding to the wrong guy. I'm this guy >>2905146

>>2905137
Peter teaches Viscom 4 (or 5? I forgot), which is basically the same class as Dynamic Sketching.

Again, Peter is much more Norm Schureman than Scott Robertson. Scott's class is a first term class while Norm/Peter's is about 6th or so.

On the thing about Norm being murdered. He was at a party, breaking up a fight. Some drunken fucktard shithead shot him through the heart.

>>2905155
Scott was one of the most influential teacher's I had. Most of my heavy perspective and object drawing chops come from him, and I utilize what he taught me every day at work.

That being said, he was also a bit of a pompous dick who talked down to the illustration department and unnecessarily discouraged people from taking up figure drawing.

>>2905178

You must be a very sad person IRL. I hope you're crippled and deformed to justify this much hatred. I've been here for a while too, but at least I've put 6 hours of work today.


Have you done anything productive or have you spent the entire day trolling?

>>2905158
He probably had more than one teacher. I've spoken directly with other well known artists/teachers from the area who have said that Hampton is a Huston ripoff who just published the notes first, so I am inclined to believe that other anon.

>>2905184
If I'm responding to the wrong guy and all those people responded to the wrong person then it just goes to show you how easy it is to herd the sheep on this board.

You prove my point. In the event you are someone else, sorry. But to the other person it's clear as day here.

>>2905184

Could you post any of your work that is not related to Dreamworks? Because your info seems really inaccurate.

>>2905186
>said that Hampton is a Huston ripoff who just published the notes first

Are you sure you aren't remembering wrong and just internalizing another /ic/ meme? Because I'm sure I only heard about that here on this board.

His mentor definitely was not Huston. He might have taken his class, I can't prove that, but it was 100% another person.

>>2905194
How is it an /ic/ meme? Anyways, I'm sure because I was the one who wrote it here before.

>>2905195
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/S2838160#p2842730

I know. Anyone can clearly trackback posts like yours and Mr. bullshitters.

>>2905184


All of these statements are lies, learn to fucking lie. Jesus christ.

File: Hai.jpg (337KB, 2448x3264px) Image search: [Google]

337KB, 2448x3264px

>>2905187
>>2905202

Are you convinced yet? If not, that's your own loss.

>>2905160
I'm usually on /ck/. They give me good ideas about what to make for dinner. I browse /ic/ now and then for giggles, and /b/ for porn.

>>2905209

but you aren't >>2905134 ?

>>2905209

Post work. I don't care if we cannot find out who you are by it, post a piece.

>>2905219

no he is not

File: 1489338745912.gif (2MB, 270x138px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 270x138px

>>2905184

Did you ever meet Feng Zhu? Is it true that all of what he says is right?

>>2905209
How does it feel to have made it?

>>2905209

What advice would you give a beginner who is doing Scott's book right now?

File: IMG_1224.jpg (2MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x2448px

>>2905223
I'm not going to post work, but here's a bucket of bacon :3

We get free breakfast and lunch. Thursday is endless bacon bucket day.

>>2905229
I never met him. Again, take everything with a grain of salt and don't worship. Some things he does is good, some is not so good.

>>2905233
A little bored now. Still looking for a qt pi gf.

>>2905239
I'd say, actually practice. Don't just read. Also, learn beyond what Scott teaches.

Generally speaking, I think the best advice especially for people just starting out is to find quality, like minded friends to learn together and push one another. Don't try to get good in isolation. I think the most valuable thing I got from Art Center was not so much the instructors, but being surrounded by tons of hot shots trying to one up one another. You get gud fast in a shark tank environment like that.

>>2905249
>Generally speaking, I think the best advice especially for people just starting out is to find quality, like minded friends to learn together and push one another. Don't try to get good in isolation. I think the most valuable thing I got from Art Center was not so much the instructors, but being surrounded by tons of hot shots trying to one up one another. You get gud fast in a shark tank environment like that.
Any advice for a guy who got good in isolation but lacks connections and fame so is struggling to get work?

>>2905249
There's no qts at DreamWorks or ArtCenter? Rip

>>2905254
There probably are, but you won't be able to impress them with your drawing skills anymore so your lack of other qualities mean they will choose someone else

>>2905249

Do you think one can successfully self teach concept art? Or should I save up for college?

File: FreeBBQevryday.jpg (2MB, 3264x2448px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3264x2448px

>>2905251
Are you actually good? People who train alone often have an inflated and distorted view of themselves because they don't have teachers and students to bounce their work off of. That was my case before I went to art school.

My advice is to get un-isolated. This is much easier to do in the internet age. Use meetup.com, find a figure drawing group at a local college etc.

>>2905269
There's a shit ton of material on the internet that didn't exist when I was in school. The bulk of it is free. If you're disciplined and determined, anything is doable.

Whether or not you should go to college is a tough and personal question that depends on your financial situation and what a degree means to you and your folks, assuming they're helping you pay.

>>2905282
What kinda work do you do at Dreamworks?

>>2905282
Another anon here, the problem with self teaching is one doesn't know where to start and how to progress through the different topics/materials, could you please give us some details on what you studied each term in ArtCentre?

It looks intimidating as fuck when you see the finished drawing with all of the guidelines, but when you know that each object started simply and those complicated forms were built up to gradually it's a lot easier to come to grips with.

The goal is to do it enough that you internalize it. Once you internalize it you can freehand more.

>>2905282
>>2905806

Not him, but you could go to CGMA, FZD and any other school and analyze their syllabus, then draw a plan to follow according to it.