Planning to start with Robertson's book this week and grind

>>2893945
It honestly depends on what your goal is and what you want to achieve by "grinding" through this book. So before I waste my time making recommendations: What is your end goal and what do you hope to achieve by working through Robertson's "How to Draw"?

>>2893950
Well my work is currently flat as fuck, and as of now I know basic perspective rules but not how to apply them. I'm hoping to get a better understanding of forms, how to draw things from many angles easily, while making them look 3D.

My end goal is drawing figures well - which is why the next book I'm going to be doing is figure-focused (Loomis/Hampton/Vilppu etc). But first I need to understand form.

The book is overrated imo and doesnt explain things well. Its superficial.

I did the whole thing with just a ruler.
Really good book, but desu it really only teaches you applied perspective, also some things are kinda vague so its best to supplement with perspective made easy.

>>2893964
It is about as technically sound as a book can get, what are you on about?

>>2893982
its really not, stop shilling. Superficial, do this explanations, no why

>>2893983
Your posts aren't really helpful anon, mind explaining what's the problem, in detail?

>>2893987
i do mind

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>>2893945
>be me
>can't draw the figure or heads in different perspective
>ask /ic/ how to get gud at this
>they tell me do Erik Olson's 95 hour course and Robertson's book
>was no easy task, spent literally the whole of two months doing only this
>now I understand all kinds of random shit like inclined vanishing points and gridding..
>but not a single damn thing about actually drawing people
>apparently the faggot who recommended me that stuff didn't go through the material himself

What am I supposed to do now

>>2893999
draw buildings and vehicles instead

>>2893945

Art Center Student here taking Viscom 1.

To make this short I'm going to green text this

>The book is like the holy bible for understanding the basics

>You don't need to approach each idea the same as him but you need to know how to do all of them to figure out what works best for you/the situation

>Yes you need ellipse guides the more you have the better, you could eyeball it but then it will look mediocre and not crisp/clean.

>Even if you man on switching over digitally, you should have the skill to make your designs via analog. For class even if we switch to photoshop it is after we have finish drawing by hand and taking a picture/scanning it into photoshop to color and clean it up.

>it seems more tedious to do all of this digitally desu unless you have a strong base before you do an overlay

>If you don't plan on doing vehicles/anyting involving you making a cylindrical object I guess you don't need it???? (ellipses guides)

In class we've only used rulers, t-squares, ellipse guides (over all degrees), and marker paper for analog. In short if you want a crisp underlay and an accurate technical drawing than you need at the very least what I wrote above.

Tips:

Watch his videos for help or anyone on youtube

Marker pads are expensive but they are the best for making multiple layers of your work. Copy paper and tracing paper is for the devil, don't use it unless this is all for fun.

Learn how to transfer properly as it should be the first thing you show learn and practice, as well as making straight lines without a ruler.

desu if you're already at the ellipse part of the book than this shouldn't even be a question.

>>2893999
>>2894007 has got it, m8.

If you want to learn to draw the figure or heads, you should definitely focus on drawing loads of different shit. A+

>>2893999
michael hampton's figure drawing invention and design
loomis ofc
any fuckin anatomy book
ton of gesture drawings
vilpu, proko etcetc

nigga if you're self taught so far you should know that there's a billion resources to learn this shit

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>>2894015

>all dem typos

Sorry I just woke up

Here's an example

>can't be bothered to flip it because this is via phone

>this was accomplished with rulers and ellipse guides

>>2894007
>>2894017
Aren't those different skillsets though? With all the buildings I've drawn I'm still no better at people, I try to break it down into boxes and stuff but it still ends up looking like a mess

>>2894022
Oh well, guess I'll just grind loomis some more

>>2893957
oi show some drawings

>>2893999
find a local place that does weekly life drawing sessions. short-medium pose (10-45 minute). Go every week, use a big pad of newsprint and draw from your shoulder. Supplement with bridgman's constructive anatomy and hampton's book.

Also, spend 2 hrs, 2x a week sight-sizing bargues or a good cast.

You'll be glad you studied robertson though, it will help you easily climb over walls that you'd run into if you just did the stuff I listed above.

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>>2893999

You know, look at sinix, he is actually down-to-earth, no bullshit guy that improved and still does improve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBv5z0Y2odE

Basically what he recommends is learning how to draw half of a cylinder in perspective, and then just put stuff on it.

For figures go KJG/krenz: draw a box in perspective and then orient your whole figure towards it.

Btw, Loomis is overrated. Sinix said it well - circle shapes are unappealing. Stick to boxes and alteration of them - cylinders or rounding box corners etc.

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>>2894315

Also as I will be dumping krenz, one more thing:

Copy and draw a lot. Don't be afraid of it, if you feel that your art sucks, just go find a nice picture/photo that you'd like and copy it. You will feel better and hopefully your shapes and lines will improve.

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>>2894320

Additionally, "correct" art will not necessairly look good. You need to understand that what makes and breaks your figures and heads and generally everything are shapes. If you have uninteresting, generic shapes - it won't look good even if you do everything as in books and with the perspective techniques and whatnot.

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>>2894325

I'm sorry for shilling the guy, but really in the spare time look through the stuff sinix has. He has sound, personal advice about the design and art and his background is something average /ic/ dweller can relate to. And if you look at his sketchbook, he started relatively late and was a fucking Narutofag dweeb of worst kind - but he started improving by copying and experimenting a lot.

>>2894681
What do you want

Just eyeball all that shit. If you can't tell when something looks off, you're not going to be able to tell anything else.

>>2893991

You must be ether a lazy asshole who can't bother actually trying, or mentally challenged because I went through the book and my construction skills went up significantly

>>2893999

Gee, I don't know. Ever thought about learning anatomy and figure so you can mix it with your newly acquired knowledge of perspective?

>>2894762
Some people these days can only follow instructions strictly and can't think out of the box. Please be kind to these people. It wasn't their fault they were raised like that.

How would you even go about practicing all the perspective knowledge you learn if all I want to draw is character in simple scene?

>>2894770
Perspective is what creates depth, unless you draw flat things like a square, circle, triangle, etc. You almost are always using perspective. Forms are created from depth and so are directly tied with anatomy. Another part to all of this is foreshortening which is the main usage of perspective that people will be bothered with.

>>2894770
>>2894774

>Camera angle and height to define the scene
>Calculating proportions easily
>Easy to know why something looks wrong if you make a mistake

>>2894777
>>2894774
is that worth the 90 hours >>2893999 has put in

>>2894782

Yeah, absolutely. Perspective is a skill worth studying for thousands of hours. Although it usually doesn't take that long to get it. It's the difference between knowing what you're doing, and have fuck all no idea and just guessing around.

>>2894782
>is learning the fundamental skill of perspective worth 90 hours the question

Why are people so fucking scared of Perspective? It's not that fucking hard, jesus christ.

>>2894842
It's pretty hard for some people, especially those who doubt themselves too much.

I tried teaching two point perspective to someone and for some reason, they just didn't get it even though it's literally just connect the dots.

It's when I learned that some people were just not meant to make it and that I can at least say I'm better than a lot of people.

>>2894765

I try to be kind, but it angers me that many of these people will later on advice other newcomers not to bother with Perspective at all.

>>2894850
You dont need to do mathematical formulas to draw perspective

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>>2894863

Can you point out where I claimed that? You filthy sack of shit

>>2894315
>>2894334
Thanks a ton, these were actually helpful

>>2894782
Nah. Drawabox, Vandruff and Scott are all you need. Put as much time as you can into actually practicing perspective, not watching some guy talk about it in a 4 day long video for fuck's sake.

>>2894782
The video time itself is 95 hours, but the total time spent (in writing notes, drawing diagrams, making sure you understand so replaying and redrawing for the difficult ones) runs over 250 hours. That said it was definitely worth it, the instructor is amazing at cementing 'perspective vision' into your head

>>2895083
Do you need it though if you're only planning to do characters most of the time? I think basic perspective - cubes and cyllinders then forms in space is enough for those purposes

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>>2895094
Well if you aren't going to draw environments or vehicles at all and your focus is exclusively on characters I doubt you'd get much out of the course

>>2895097
I am going to draw those but not as much as I'm planning to draw the figure in motion.

And even then wouldn't knowing 1, 2 and 3 - maybe 5 point perspective would be enough? If I'm gonna draw a character on a motorcycle for example.

>>2895099
Dude what the fuck, that's not how perspective works.

1, 2, 3, 5 point perspectives are just oversimplified labels for organizing your process. In reality, everything is in fish eye perspective.
Learning perspective means learning how to visualize and reach into the paper as if it was a gateway into another 3D space to solve any problem of form building.

>>2895097
Yea but what else besides duplication and mirroring do you need to draw that?
'cause you can get that from Scott's book in like 2 hours.

>>2895117
I'm being misread but I did type a dumb post
All I'm saying is that 90 hours of videos seems like overkill if I'm not going to do structural design often. I think the basics >>2895094 might be fine. But who knows, maybe I'll end up using Olson if Robertson isn't enough.

Perspective is such a cool subject, I am not sure why so many of you guys are wary of spending a couple hundred hours on Olson's stuff.

>>2893964

If you want to get the most out of a drawing book, then draw exercises and plates. You can read, but a lot of concepts will fly over your head if you don't apply them.

>>2895131
I didn't mean to attack your way of approaching perspective, just the "I'm learning one point perspective now" mindset.

A 90 hour lecture on something so relatively simple to grasp is more than an overkill.

>>2895161
kek

>>2895117

>In reality, everything is in fish eye perspective.

I'm sorry, but that's untrue as fish eye has a very small focal length. Human eyes have a larger focal length than wide angle, but a shorter focal length than telephoto.

>>2895169

I think he meant to say that all perspectives exist inside a Curvaliniar perspective. Which is true

fuck it quit time to suicide into 90 hours

Can anyone recommended some resources for learning curvilinear perspective?

>>2893945
You don't need ellipse guides or equal dividers, especially because they're expensive as shit.

The ellipse guides are only for cleanup anyway, he recommends freehanding them in the sketching phase.

Overall if your idea is not to draw hardcore industrial design you shouldn't even consider getting them

>>2895236
Just imagine you're bad at planning your drawing, so everything gets skewed as you get closer to the border as you're trying to fit it in.

>>2895236

Literally in the OP.

>>2895277
You either don't know what curvilinear perspective is or haven't read the book

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>>2895321

I have read the book, and I know what curvalinear perspective is. Scott Robertson explains exactly what it is in his book. Maybe next time you double check your info before spouting non-sense?

>>2895414
Why do you even care about curvilinear perspective

2 and 3 point is what you're gonna use 99.9% of the time

>>2894759
or maybe they were just really low to begin with?
ever considered that?

>>2894024
>this was accomplished with rulers
why if you can supposedly draw a straight line?

>>2896603
Fuck no, wide lens effect for close ups, drama and distortion is one of the coolest shit you can learn about perspective for composition, dramatic effect etc.
Avoiding it limits your language of art.

>>2896615
You can do a wide angle effect by making your cone of vision wider, it's more than good enough in 3 point.

You guys no /ic/ have this bad habit of shitting on everything that isn't "the most difficult thing". If you can freehand fisheye perspective I tip my hat to you but you can do absolutely fine with 3 point