>tfw trying to make an honest living and career out of illustration

>>2891850
N-no that can't be true.

Where did you get that idea?

I think you're just tricking yourself and thinking wrong about it.

How else are we supposed to become successful illustrators?

>>2891850
It's an oversaturated market, and if you don't have the passion and determination to work yourself to the bone for fun then you probably won't make it. Congrats for realizing sooner rather than later. Now you can either step up your game or quit and cry about having no other skills to fall back on.

PS: You don't need to be a god at art to make a living. You need to be solid and then have connections.

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>>2891850
>even if you get a job to sustain yourself the amount of effort expendature means you'll never have time to do much of anything and it will take years for you to go anywhere
>you'll never have time to do much of anything

It's a good thing I don't have any friends.

>>2891863
>tfw your only "friends" are /ic/

>>2891863
You won't have time to watch anime either anon

>friend has bachelors in illustration
>she's actually decent - not great, but good enough
>winds up at the same shitty i'm at (no formal education)
>"haha yeah i just wasn't aggressive enough i guess"

>>2891871
Sounds like she wasn't actually "good enough" then

>>2891871
sounds like you're describing all of the other illustration majors in my department.
>I draw better than a graduate student in illustration at my school and I'm a third-year illustration major.

Dude lots of famous artists today were originally poor fags. Did you actually do some research before assuming things?

>>2891862
>oversatured market meme
But really, how can someone know whether or not they have enough passion and determination to work that hard before even having made it? By the time you have that much determination, you would have already made it.

>>2891878
>oversatured market meme
It's not a meme though.

>how can someone know whether or not they have enough passion and determination to work that hard before even having made it?
A lot of people just know and already have that determination before becoming a professional. You kind of have to have that determination to reach those heights. It's not something you gain only when you have been doing art for a long time.

>>2891850
>>that gradual realization that this career is really made for rich art student kids and fanatical asians, and that there's very little place for uneducated american poor fag unless you're willing to starve yourself
>Who is Dave Rapoza?

>>2891885
He pretty much did starve himself when starting out though. Also one person does not negate a general fact.

>>2891882
Economics is a meme. There's no viable way to get accurate stats for anything much less supply and demand. Markets themselves don't even make sense when you apply to art. Every artist is essentially their own market.

>A lot of people just know and already have that determination before becoming a professional.
It's unable to be explained. Thanks for answering my question with a vague answer.

>You kind of have to have that determination to reach those heights.
And how would you know this?

>It's not something you gain only when you have been doing art for a long time.
Of course not, but you gain through the process and journey.

>>2891887
>There's no viable way to get accurate stats for anything much less supply and demand
Well there are stats on things like what the average illustration job pays now compared to 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 50, 100 etc. And there are stats on how many artists are working in the field or trying to break into the field. And there are stats on the earnings of the average artist and the top artists. There's also the fact that with the internet competition is global instead of local. If you've been around even like 10 years you will have seen major rises in the skill level of people in the industry.

>You kind of have to have that determination to reach those heights.
>And how would you know this?
It takes many years of hard work and discipline to become a professional. If you are half hearted about it you simply won't get there.

>>2891877
>lots
Lots of famous artists today were also originally rich fags.

>>2891887
Another anon here. There's no way to know you can reach those heights. You can only have intuition about it, but intuition about this sort of thing has no value in the first place and is created through flawed unconscious heuristics. This is an example of a limitation and flaw of human reasoning. Just because you are intelligent enough to realize this, doesn't mean you should give up.

>>2891902
So what's the conclusive answer? Don't give up ever because you'll never know until you try?

>>2891909
There is no answer. Do what you want. You might try and fail. You might never try in the first place. You might try and succeed. It's easier to try and keep trying if you have an unwavering belief that you will succeed, that is all.

>>2891914
Interesting, so this is what human freedom is like. It's much too great of a power for us really. If there were such a thing as fate, at least you could move on with your life knowing what you could achieve and what you couldn't. Thank you for your contributions.

>>2891909
>>2891914
This. There is no good reason that would completely make the other decision without some merit.
>>2891914
Indeed, this is what human freedom is like. It leads to good results and bad ones. Civilization gets better and worse at the same time. Quite paradoxical, isn't it?

>>2891927
>Civilization gets better and worse at the same time
>tfw depression is a modern affliction
>tfw I would have been likely been happy if we still lived as hunter gatherer society

>>2891850
>mfw I realize my dreams of being a successful studio artist is just as unlikely

>>2891862
How does a mere autistic pleb make connections?

>>2891946
social media instead of in person

>>2891946
There are a few secrets, however I don't know if you're ready to accept them.

>>2891954
What do you mean by this exactly?

>OP realize he can't half ass things in art like in other profession

>>2892000
Is there anything else like art where you can't half-ass things?

>>2891850
that movie is racist

>>2891862
You forgot to mention rich parents to freeload off of

>>2892038
What does that have to do with the post?

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>>2891850

Suits me fine, I wouldn't want an industry where I am surrounded by lazy assholes with no passion and will for greatness. Nature puts everyone on their righteous place, if you can't keep up, then you'll stay down forever.


Ultimately, it's your choice. Don't fool yourself.

>>2891863
This

>>2892537
this truth is harsh

but you know what is more harsh? wasting your first 20 years of your life in ignorance because others try to hide the harsh truth from ''mah kids'' and end up not pushing yourself

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>>2891956
Go on.. .

>>2892780

I agree, the compassion not to hurt is more painful than the truth itself

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These kind of threads pop up like clockwork and yet not a single person in here is a professional. This entire thread is pure speculation.

/ic/, if you really want to know what the state of the industry is like, why don't you write mails to a few professionals and see what they have to say? This way an actual discussion based on actual facts could happen and it'd be actually interesting for a change.

I'm a semi-pro and if others are willing I'll send a few mails myself. Speaking from my perspective, it's not as bleak as /ic/ wants it to be. I say "wants it to be" because I feel like some depressed artists in here are looking for excuses to drop art altogether.

>>2894030
But that requires me to learn Japanese, anon. How am I supposed to ask Murata how the industry is?

>>2894034
Not make it gonna

>>2894030
I don't know the right questions to ask

>inb4 well not gonna make it then anon

>>2894034
You will not be working in the japanese industry, get that out of your head.

>>2894030
>it's not as bleak as /ic/ wants it to be. I say "wants it to be" because I feel like some depressed artists in here are looking for excuses to drop art altogether.
Do tell

>>2894030
Seconded. I'm a complete beginner so I'm not really in a position to bother professional artists with questions like that but this really, really needs to happen.
/ic/ is trapped in a feedback loop

>>2894098
Not him but its kind of true that most d/ic/ks are whining, not optimistic, cynical etc

>>2891850
Do you... ENJOY it? What would you rather do with your life?

>>2894114
End it.

>>2894030
we need to make this happen
also, why don't we ask some of the d/ic/ks who turned pro like tehmeh, onevox or andrew? I'm sure they'd be more willing to answer this considering there were once part of this communoty

>>2894134
>tfw you could have talked to tehmeh this whole time and didn't even realize it
Huh, really makes me think.

>>2894030
>not a single person in here is a professional.
I am but I don't advertise it/ only come here very rarely for pointless drama. There are very well paying careers if you're a good artist and actually look for them.

>>2894142
>There are very well paying careers if you're a good artist and actually look for them.
Such as?

>>2894147
anything in the games industry, creating UI for any product, porn patreons to name a few.

>>2894030
I'd love for this to happen!

>>2894142
Don't leave us hanging, please elaborate pro-san~

>>2894179
Well that is true, it would probably even give you time to work on your own art. The cost is giving up complete art to pursue that career for a few years.

Is it easier to get into technical art and VFX than the other positions such as designer and artists? I wonder if 3D modelling is difficult to get in too. Since there's so many positions, maybe not? There's also a ton of people but they can't work everything.

>>2894048
underrated

>>2894220
but that's true for every career. you don't just get put into a well paying position unless you get lucky or nepotism, you usually go to school for it or work your way up over years. i mean yeah it's not the ideal career path like something in the medical field or accounting, but well paying jobs are absolutely out there for artists.

>3D modeling

now THAT pays well. You can literally do anything with it too - design kiosks for stores, game designs, figurines, etc.

>>2894267
I assure you, it does not.

>>2891850
I typed out a pretty full reply to this, but it apparently never sent when I saw this thread yesterday.

Here's the condensed version:
If you think art is drawing whatever you feel like and getting paid, you're wrong.
Making a living with art is just like with any other skill or degree; you find a profitable niche and utilize your skills to dominate.

If that means you have to plow through /trash/ commissions for a year while you build your portfolio on the side, so be it. 0.0000001% of artists make a living drawing whatever they feel like. Nobody said art was the one skill exempt from the laws of the market.

>>2894303
Nice meme numbers to scare off depressed artists

>>2894309
And it should. I see too many posts here about people considering giving up because they can't draw giant loli feet all day and buy a house off of it. People need to get over the idea of drawing whatever you want and making a living being compatible things for at least your first few years as a professional.

>>2894309
I mean they're right, so if that scares you off then you need to seriously do some research into this industry and get a reality check

>>2894318
As a working professional, your standards also have to be very high. I love expressing someone else's vision, so I am already adapted to the market needs.

There are so many good artists, I have to improve a lot more before I get to an in-house job level. Now I just work for individuals.

On the other hand, undercutting hobbyists/poor country artists are NOT competition. Not even close. I can draw whatever the client wants with good perspective, and my English is perfect for understanding his wishes and feedback.

Nowadays I actually encourage people to keep it a beer money hobby.

>>2894303
>>2894365
I wouldn't really think doing art for a living is a great idea anyway, unless you're self employed or doing it on the side.
Art appeals to creatively minded people, but creativity is probably the most optional thing for professional work. Someone like that would be better served either taking something like a code monkey job or finding the most comfortable and stable job possible that still lets them draw at home. Tech jobs are competitive, but it's a small competition, and there's always room at the bottom rungs for people.

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>>2894309
>meme numbers

The way I look at it is if you can afford to fail you will. If you can't you won't. Simple as that.

>>2891850
>trying to make a career out of a hobby

>>2894543
>trying to make a career out of something fun is wrong

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>>2891850
>have dreams of working for a big video game company doing thier Art/3D models
>still haven't even touches any 3D modeling software due to my toaster of a PC
>still have the pipe dream
>getting older and realizing how far I have to go to even make a solid portfolio
>am 23

I'm not gonna make it am I?

>>2894635
You have until 67 still, don't worry anon.

>>2894554
It's certainly a risk. The chances of success are low and you might end up losing your passion and enjoyment for it along the way too.

>>2891957
you talk to people but through text instead of your mouth

>>2894675
Can you give me some cues on how to do this?

>>2891850
>>2891850
honestly tho if you just GIT GUD at art you'll find your own niche to slide into. or you'll gather a fanbase and be able to open up a paetron or something. obviously you're not going to be famous and rich right away even if you are absolutely god tier, but you'll get there eventually.

hell, even if you're not goat, if your work is interesting and seeps love then surely someone will pay attention to your work and you'll make it! enjoying art is key to havin success with art. like with any other career. pretty sure that people straight out of med school don't just enter into the biggest hospitals and start stitching up big wigs like obama right away man idk

basically if you like art and it's literally your shit then just keep at it!! you'll make it someday

just stop bieng such a negative faggot ok thx

sorry if any of this comes across as gibberish im sick and getting fuckedd

>>2892537
>I wouldn't want an industry where I am surrounded by lazy assholes with no passion and will for greatness
>Nature puts everyone on their righteous place
Ha, I wish, the real problem is that the market is fille with pieces of shit like Illya, the usual generic sci-fi artists or anime tards. Meritocracy is a meme even moreso in art

>>2895703
>the real problem is that the market is fille with pieces of shit like Illya, the usual generic sci-fi artists or anime tards.
>there are people on /ic/ who actually believe this

>>2891946
Pander to rich people, go full on sjw without reservations. It worked for Aaron Diaz who's a horrible human being

OP YOU'RE SCARING ME

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>>2891878
>oversatured market meme
It's very easy to determine whether or not the market is oversaturated or not. If the supply outweighs the demand it's oversaturated. If the demand was higher you'd get a better deal at Wizards of the Coast and fantasy flight, but since the supply of artists is so high the pay hasn't improved and has in some weighs actually gotten worse.

>But really, how can someone know whether or not they have enough passion and determination to work that hard before even having made it?
The passion and determination to work 50-60 hours on a painting for a card art studio that pays 350 dollars before taxes? Commercial art is a field where you're putting in the hours of a doctor or lawyer for a fraction of the pay and if you question the economics of that you're not "passionate" (whatever that means) enough.

>By the time you have that much determination, you would have already made it.
I'm not saying it's impossible to make it by any stretch of the imagination, but you have to sit back and think where you want to be in your late 20s and early 30s- Earning 40k annually working 70 hours a week making assets for the next generic shooter sequel that aren't even going to get used in the final game?

The hours you work and the pay you get are a direct result of supply-demand. Otherwise it would be easier to negotiate a higher wage, but there's always some one more "passionate" and "determined" who'll do more work than you for less pay. Want to have a house, wife and kid at some point? Guess you're just not passionate enough.

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>>2896656
WotC and FFG are anomalies in this industry and not good examples. For example I'm usually able to raise my fees through negotiation tactics with most other clients. And besides, both companies have "tiers". You only have to deal with low fees if you're a no-name.

>The passion and determination to work 50-60 hours on a painting for a card art studio that pays 350 dollars before taxes?

Nigga, what planet are you from? TCG artwork like that is done under fifteen hours.
If you're a render whore like Brad Rigney or Noxizmad, it's your own god damn fault.

>Earning 40k annually working 70 hours a week making assets for the next generic shooter sequel that aren't even going to get used in the final game?

Again, what the hell are you talking about? I know no one, who has to work 70 hours a week to make their 40k. If you do, you're not good enough as an artist yet and should probably focus on getting better.

Don't listen to this fool, people.

>>2896673
Post your income

>>2896677
Post yours

>>2896673
A friend works at mid-sized studio in Europe and his salary comes out at just over 25k per year. Sure he's not work 70 hours a week for most of the year (except during crunch time) but it's not a lot of money for the work he does, especially not after the high income tax.

>>2894034
村田先生、どうやって芸術産業に這入ていらしゃいますか。

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Hijacking this thread.
I'm good, I got a basic portfolio, now what? How do I get freelance jobs?

>>2896937

Can you post a design concept where we can see how you problem solve?

>>2896937
Start sending off a shit ton of emails to companies. If you have any friends who are pros then ask them if they can help you out. They probably have some art director emails or inside info that will give you a leg up, or they might recommend you to their boss or something. It's also good to post your art as often as you can on various social media and try to build an online presence for yourself.

As much as /ic/ talks of taking X years to get to a pro level, they never talk about how once you are that skilled it still takes a while to get consistent work and build up a client base. Just keep at it. If a company doesn't respond then send another email in a couple months when you have new work to show. Keep doing this over and over and if you work is actually good then eventually things will start to come in.

>>2896673
40k salary is still shit, without crunch.

350 usd for a deliverable is shit, no matter how fast you work.

Rationalizing low pay by saying you just need to be faster and better...in the end you're still being paid the same and the client/studio is getting stellar work for relatively cheap.

Artist/designers are underpaid and under-appreciated theres nothing wrong with admitting that, and it can help improve the situation for everyone down the line. You see the fights in VFX/Games, the wage fixing and the crunch, don't rationalize that shit, it's just wrong.

>>2894635
Are you my boyfriend?
No, my boyfriend isn't such a mopey faggot.

When I think of this I want to kms because I don't know what else I could do

>>2895680
This, this board is all limp d/ic/k

If rich kids and autistic asians have inherent advantages then use that american poorfag grit and out-create them, this isnt basketball you can use your mind and hand to fuck them all

>>2897120
American poorfag grit doesn't work anymore I thought

>>2897095
You can keep working hard anon. I know you want to be able to draw, so do it and show me.

>>2895680
>sorry if any of this comes across as gibberish im sick and getting fuckedd

>getting fucked while shitposting on ic
thanks for the new goal