/beg/ - THE BEGINNER THREAD

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>>2884357
that's my art on the cover <3
i'm so emotional right now.
decided to make a series of disney princesses, but i think this sketch is kind of strange
hands and feet are a bit large, right?

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This is the ref from the other thread. I got frustrated and didn't finish the clothes

HOW THE FUCK DO I STOP CARTOONING I JUST

>>2884386
>>2882247
this is the old ref i was talking about

>>2884386
just get rid of the outlines and get a finer pencil tip so you rcan make shadows and stuff in small places with detail instead of just throwing a line

>>2884401
can you explain "throwing a line"? I'm not super sure what that means

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some gesture and figures i worked on

>>2884386
Do all the exercizes from keys to drawing + dotrsotb

>>2884411
anatomy is really good. are your heads so small intentionally?


>>2884406
for example, between his shirt and his hood-ish robe there is line you threw.
just think and look at your reference. how do these layers of fabric overlay? its not just a line to separate them

>>2884411
I feel that there's an excess of lines. Try ghosting in your lines before drawing them.

How the FUCK do I develop my own artstyle? Im getting real tired of portrait drawings

>>2884386
The simple answer is that you're still not drawing what you see. You're drawing symbols or simplified placeholders of the features you see, which is what cartooning is.

When you're drawing a picture, especially one in color, try to imagine it fully black and white. Notice that there is a spectrum of shades from white->gray->black and everything in between. Your job in drawing is to copy those variations as best as you can.

Looking at your reference, there are many things you missed. For instance, the eyes are in shadow, they're mostly dark. On yours, you drew your own version of the eyes with a different shape and lighting. You did not try to copy the eye of the reference and instead created an eye which kinda sorta resembles it. That is symbol drawing.

One way to remedy this is to pay closer attention to the values of light and dark. Try to copy them exactly as they appear. If you blur your eyes, you'll see what I mean. Also draw larger. You're drawing too small which makes it hard for you to see and add details.

Your observational skills are getting there though, you're almost out of symbol drawing. Just draw larger, it will help a lot. Pay more attention to the shading than the outlines.

A good reference for you to try would be this one. >>2884358

>>2884432
move on another type, then. how about dead nature drawing? or landscapes and scenery?
"your style" is just the combination of different artists inspiration that lead you. do you like heavy shadows? heavy lights?
for example, I like to make the shadow tones of a painting more saturate, while the light tones are less saturate. it makes the shadows heavier and more dense

>>2884440
>dead nature drawing
W-what? Like barren wastelands?

>>2884440
I haven't started on nature drawing, it looks way too hard, how should I tackle it? I mean there are like a million tiny details in just one picture of nature, how the heck do you get that as accurate as possible on your drawing?

At what point do I stop posting in the beginner thread? What is the threshold?

>>2884445
No one said you had to post in here, at all. You can post wherever the hell you want.

>>2884448
Whenever I make my own thread people tell me to post here :(

I guess when that stops happening is the threshold.

>>2884445
post your work and people will tell you

>>2884445

just post where ever u want. iif u want quick answers. beg thread is the best option besides making ur own thread.

>>2884442
no. like a bowl of fruit, for example.

>>2884444
that really depends on what you want. of course, if you wanna be a decent artist, you should at least get the basics on all kinds of stuff.

try some simpler nature drawing at first. "nature landscape" reminds us of a jungle full of leaves and trunks and bugs and it's just hard. draw a beach. some mountains. the ocean. one single tree. start small.

if you don't feel good about tackling nature drawing, try some anatomy, why not? human anatomy, dog anatomy, cat anatomy, (different sizes of cats, domestic cats, cheetas, lions, study the similarities and the differences, why some animals can climb and why others can't)

not sure about anatomy either? go for persepctive stuff (which usually stays out of portraits). draw a street (not cocerning about the building details and stuff) with the 3-point perspective.

or draw the building details, some urban scenery!

>>2884445
people will start telling you that you're not a beginner anymore.
but seriously, some dudes in 4chan will not determine your level.

professionals usually don't need other people opinion to finish a piece. if you need, post here. even if you're not a beginner.

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I hate this angle, it's ridiculously hard to get right.

>>2884461
this looks so bad anon, did you do a sketch before u drew that?

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when u draw before u thumbnail..................... T_T

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I did this painting of my father holding a cat, my first ever portrait, what do you all think?

Basically the main problems I can see with it is that it looks too flat and his specs lines could be cleaner.

>>2884464
If this "looks so bad", then you're better off not having to witness the previous iterations. This one has got the facial proportions at least.

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>tfw you made a really good drawing and ur so happy u put your hands in the air then accidently bump your drink and your drawing gets ruined

>>2884427
It's just how they came out, thank you though. I've found that doing gestures is relaxing for me. The heads weren't the focus of the gestures aside from conveying the direction, so i guess i just made them smaller.

>>2884461
It actually looks not terrible, the eyes are great, so is the mouth, but her ears chin and neck don't look quite right, I'm assuming the hair is a rough draft.

>>2884461
The eyes and mouth are good but the hair needs some work and the neck could be smaller

>>2884477
>>2884478
I actually thought the mouth was the worst part. I struggled so much with trying to figure out its angle and position, and it still doesn't look quite right to me. I think the ear should be placed much further when you view it from this angle, and the jaw should be longer as well. And, maybe, reshape the nose again.

Hair is just basic shape, I plan on making it look like this:
http://i.4cdn.org/ic/1488574634247.jpg
(and probably even better) after I get some rest.

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>>2884461
dont worry anon, i made your Orginal Character™ much more kawaii

>>2884502

I feel inclined to like your drawing because I am nazi.

>>2884502
I hope you died from so much moe.

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Practicing 2pp, does this look right?

>>2884514
Are you sure this is 2pt, cause why are there curves everywhere?

>>2884519

Yeah, the vanishing points are inclined. One on the bottom left corner and the other on the top right, I did it free hand and my hands shake a lot, maybe that's why it looks so curved? not sure

>>2884357
How can so many artists now produce incredible photorealism, when even the greatest Renaissance artists that saw that as a central aim couldn't come as close?

>>2884556
We have better methods and resources.

>>2884556
You've got a billion NEETs nowadays who are behind their computer doing nothing all day, back then people actually had to WORK and didn't have time for drawing.

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I feel stuck and I honestly don't know what I should do going forward any advice would help.
Should I practice more anatomy, more gestures, more heads (I think this is a main one), proper lighting, perspective, maybe everything ?

Side note how do you finish a drawing? I can't seem to get that done.

>>2884587
It's not the NEETs that are producing that work tho. The generic celebrity photo copies are done by normies who probably don't even draw everyday.

>>2884590
Whoa, so good.

You finish a drawing by spending more time on a drawing. Completely serious. After a certain point, you'll be like "you know what, this is done"

>>2884556
>Renaissance artists that saw that as a central aim
They didn't.

>>2884587
Artists back then didn't have to work or go to school, they could just focus on art from a young age since it was seen as a trade.

>>2884591
literally ANYONE can draw from realism, wouldn't be surprised a normie who never had picked up a pencil would draw a 10/10 copypaste drawing

>>2884595
Yeah but that guys point was that there are so many people who can produce photorealistic art now as compared to the renaissance era.

>>2884468
Anyone have any comments?

>>2884468
the face, cat, and forearms are pretty flat. the hands look a bit wonky, especially the knucles on the higher one. also the choice of background is pretty eh, kind of takes away any possible atmosphere. (keep in mind i am a beginner as well).

besides that i kinda like it

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This

>>2884556
People back then didn't have photographs to copy. They didn't have projectors, photoshop, internet, printers, permanent lighting set up, etc.

Come on, man. It's not that hard to figure out.

>>2884465
Thumbnail or not it'd still come out shit.

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Need advice please, something looks really off about my sketch, the longer I look at it the harder it gets to find "what".

>>2884643
Shoulders look too big/close together?

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>>2884641
Okay. Maybe you can tell me why?

>>2884645
Suppose to bent back sitting on a chair, whcih is why the shoulders look like that, I would have drawn it full size but my sketchbook wasnt big enough.

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Can someone identify what is wrong with the front guy's legs? They just don't look right to me.

Also any other critique is welcome.

>>2884666
The top of the pouch on HIS RIGHT leg should be facing the camera if his right leg is behind his left leg (or remove it completely to see what i mean). It looks fine to me personally but that might be subconsciously tripping you up.

How far in knowledge of fundamentals do I have to draw like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwpTW4znF_g

>>2884695
Typical beginner question. It doesn't work like that. You can achieve anything you want as long as you're willing to put in the time.

>>2884666
Looks a bit weird since the far leg is not entire in shadow when it should be so it implies it is sitting in the wrong space. Also I think his pelvis/lumbar area is a bit stretched, so try compressing it a bit an it should look better.

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>>2884697
>You can achieve anything you want as long as you're willing to put in the time.
Like this?

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Thoughts?

>>2884705
10/10 no improvement needed

>>2884343
It's not autism, all I asked is if he goes in depth on some of the topics or gives a list of exercises to do like Scott.

How does one practice basic perspective other than boxes?

>>2884718
I swear, beginners these days are so dumb. Do you even know what perspective is? Jesus Christ. If you don't know, then you're not gonna make it.

>>2884723
I AM practicing as already mentioned in my previous post, dumbass. I know what perspecive is, and am trying to get better at it. All I'm asking his how to practice EFFICIENTLY.

>>2884699
post all the timewasting scribbles all you want

unless you put your nose to the grindstone and put in the hours and work (you don't strike me as a person who would), you're never going to get anywhere lmao

and if that's how you roll, power to you

>>2884726
try drawing circles and squares on your sketch. It helps with perspective alot

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>>2884728
Here's some serious work I did. One part wants to doodle the other part keeps telling me to "put my nose in the grindstone"

>>2884731
Try a finished work. Of anything of your choosing. A study or whatever.

Just imagine when you've finally made it. You can doodle all day, put some of them on instagram and you'll have 500 comments of people who are shit at drawing praising you.

Remember to work smart - not hard. Having fun is essential but learning and progressing in skill at the same time is even better.

>>2884731
now do a thousand more

>>2884775
>tfw fell for the do thousand gestures meme

>>2884782
its only bad if you do it without understanding gesture.

>>2884785
>tfw they tell you the only way to understand gestures is to do gestures

>>2884782
You shouldn't do one thousand at once, you should do a few everyday. They are great warmup.

>>2884788
thats dumb
also checked

>>2884357
I know that picture. It is from the last thread! Look ma they made it!

>>2884788
A lot of art is mileage, but even more so with gesture. It sounds like a dickhead thing to say but I only got gesture after going through two entire sketchbooks of not knowing what the fuck I was doing until something clicked - the real aspect of "feeling" the powerful curves of a pose. My gestures aren't Mattesi-level yet but I overcame a huge roadblock that a lot of /beg/gars seem to have issues with whenever I see them post it

>>2884904
its flat symbols
sticky

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>>2884476
>>2884477
>>2884491
Tried to fix her ear, neck length, nose, and jaw. Not sure what should be done about the chin, though. No matter how much I reshape it, the current state looks better.

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>>2884928

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>>2884928
>blur tool for the hair
>nothings changed
>spending this much time on one turd when you should be grinding loomis

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Where can the values be pushed in this?

are oil painting supplies comparable to watercolors? i feel like im making oil out to be way more complicated than it really is

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>>2884474
had a hearty kek and drew a shit comic

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>>2884947
resized sorry family

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>>2884357
Trying to understand how to get the body in proper perspective but I feel overwhelmed by how many shapes there are to simplify. Sorry if this doesnt make any sense, been practice twelve hours straight and I am fucking brain dead right now. Also traced this cause I am just trying to be able to see perspective better.

>>2884930
>nothings changed
Surely tells a lot about your judgment.

>>2884957
He means fundamentally nothing's changed. Stop trying to damage control.

Stop polishing this turd and read literally any book in the sticky to get started.

>>2884957
Not gonna make it.

>>2884957
>still defending his turd
if you want to draw animu go find some actually good animu artists and copy their shit (while going through loomis/hampton etc. obviously)


But I already know that you won't listen because you clearly have the mentality of an autistic DA user

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>>2884952
rookies, pls stop using digital if you're trying to learn 2d fundamentals, it's literally the least intuitive and most abstruse way to learn.

.

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How am I doing?

>>2884978
You are so bad it's almost troll, you need loomis and jesus. Also not an illustration, and where does it say "don't use digital for fundamental exercises." I practice traditionally as well and I could have done this that way but this was more effective.

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>>2884988
less talk, let's see your skills fuckboy, lay it on me.

if your work is >>2884952, then lmao ded
you did that with an arthritic hand on your mouse right?

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>crafting a masterpiece
>zoom out, flip horizontally
>it's utter shit
hello darkness my old friend

>>2884982
Pretty cool, man. Only the feet are messed up a bit - you're standing at its eye level, there's no way you can see so much of the side plane.

>>2884990
Ever heard of the saying "the blind leading the blind" I really hope you dont give crits a lot.

>>2884992
(ignoring that you didn't even say what's wrong with my sketch)

lol i took the time to sketch someone's shitty reference to give them advice, lol i'm so owned.

shows me for participating. (i.e., i'm fully confident that the only people who leave bitter messages like yours are shit and will never have the guts to post their garbage)

>>2884990
>>2884978
Says I have arthritis but has line quality of a fucking mongaloid and using traditional LOL fucking dying.

>>2884978
>>2884997
Don't see anything obviously wrong with anon's work; it's a quick sketch with ellipses and boxes, because you asked for help, right?

At least anon's work has gesture, show us your stiff figure drawings you gaylord.

>>2885000
This is not help, this is someone who couldn't be fucked to really say anying useful.

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>>2885000
He is literally on autopilot with his responses, at least it seems that way

>>2885000
That was a shit trace to help with perspective, I wanted to know what I could do to help me see it better you fuck wit. Also fuck you both for making me even post.

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>>2884666
>>2884670
>subconsciously tripping you up.
nothing subconscious about those trips

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How do I improve my cube/fur game?

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>>2884988
>>2884992
>>2884997
>>2885004
>>2885010

i only started drawing for the first time in my life 2 years ago, and I have filled less than a 100 pages of a4 because of time constraints.

i don't assume that i'll be getting real compliments when i show my work to anyone, but I WILL assume that i'm better than your average newbie rude ass cumlord /ic/ clown

fuck you, go read some perspective and figure drawing books you simple bitch, i'm sorry i tried giving advice to lima bean I.Q. randos (i.e., figure out the perspective directly on the photo you retard, don't draw beside it with your fucking cheap ass tablet)

>>2884996
Also proportions are off, boxes are horrible you make my perspective look godly and that says a lot because it's pretty bad. Why are you mixing boxes and cylinders? Ribs are cancerously represented with that shit proko wanna be shape you did. Well you wanted this man, and you know what this is an unfair crit because your shit was done so lazly like your response. I bet you have better work but I am not going to give you any benefit of the doubt because you did the same for me.

>>2885015
with lighting

>>2885021
Gtfo I work way too hard for your shit. I am going to say this once and you better fucking listen, come back in ten years then give a crit otherwise fuck off you fucking cancer. You are what's wrong with posting on the internet.

>>2885023
"why are you mixing boxes and cylinders"

why do you keep owning yourself like this.

it's conceptual, it's a geometric shape retard. it follows perspective rules and allows you to simplify the human form retard. boxes and cylinders are the mental aids for 2d space retardo. 400 year old science. art school ABC.

you'd know this if you ever read things.

again, i don't know why you're critiquing anyone's perspective or art.

>>2885029
They dont though, and it's fucking obvious

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>>2884964
I suppose you wouldn't be able to give any kind of precise answer if I questioned you about the fundamental changes it needs?

>>2884967
Okay. But I'm still gonna draw and draw, since it's a refreshing hobby and I don't like dropping things halfway. After all, anons who have seen my earlier pictures say I'm improving incredibly fast and should be a pro by fall (which is flattering, but I'd rather not be so conceited as to believe it). If you don't wish to see the results, then just say so, and I won't bother you all for a long time, as I'm grateful for the motivation to draw a lot more portraits and conquer this angle securely.

>>2884976
>> But I already know that you won't listen
Attaboy!

>>2885029
>>2885029
If you think that's in good perspective than you must be severely disabled. And I say "why are mixing" because consistency matters you fucking autist

>>2885021
If you only started drawing why be such a fucking dumbass on here, and you know what you really are not better then most of these fucking people. You are going to plateau because of your shit, not your drawing but because of who you are as a person.

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i gave shading clothing folds a shot, is there a tutorial or something that goes over the basics?

I kind of just tried to find the contours of the clothing, found the highlights then shade accordingly

pic related

>>2885036
Listen, I'm an absolute beginner and even I'm seeing problems with this.

Her face is melting off her skull to the right, her hairline is too low, the neck seems a little too long and pinched in the middle and she has little to no shoulders.

I'm probably wrong on a couple of things but there are some glaring issues that need work, I'd recommend just scrapping it and redoing it.

>>2884991
I thought something flet off, that makes a lot of sense. Thank you!

>>2884461
welcome to eb games

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>>2885021
>>2885021
First pic horrible, chest is not in perspective. Head is also fucked. Second meh, third pic Shruken head and dirty as fuck. Hmmm tells me to read but needs to practice more of this...

>>2885021
You have made me actually physically ill because of your shit. I am fucking done with this bullshit.

>>2884988
>"rookies, pls stop using digital if you're trying to learn 2d fundamentals, it's literally the least intuitive and most abstruse way to learn."

"rookies, pls stop using digital if you're trying to learn 2d fundamentals, it's literally the least intuitive and most abstruse way to learn."

I'm pretty sure the second post kicked the dumbass carnival on here.

Ever heard of the saying, "“Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you.”?

>>2884952
Never mind the fact that this is a terrible image to read perspective; the horizon cuts across her her lower ribs (which is hardly relevant since most of her features have their own perspective vanishing points).

You drew her hips + buttocks + her legs with one box, that is wrong. Since you only drew one for her lower body, it's as if her hips are converging downwards into space (her body is mostly parallel with the picture plane, although she is twisting her lower body ever so slightly).

You're supposed to imagine that there's a cross-section of her body: that cross-section may be a box or a cylinder, that box or cylinder will either go to the horizon line (like her legs) or it will converge somewhere else entirely (her right arm). Either way, keep the horizon in mind and all 6 lines of the cross-section box.

>>2885061
you need to draw more boxes, your shit isn't lining up

>>2885069
I meant to reference this second reply >>2884988

>>2885021
Dude, you at least tried to help, and that what counts.
You got your point across, wich..even if you yourself aren't that good still is correct.
So yes, fuck those people criticism you just because you tried to help

>>2885069
>>2885069
>>2885069
>>2885071
You are right man, and your response is literally what I wanted. I am fucking exhausted okay, my patience is absolutely non existent. Anyways I was fucking wrong to act like that.

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I think the feet are a little better. How can I do cast shadows without messing up my form shadows? Should I just attempt to do them on the same layer?

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>>2885050
I swore that I would draw a complete picture of my waifu each weekend, and I'm going to stay true to my word. It's only natural if most of my drawings turn out bad in the beginning, and it's fine and not something to be ashamed of as long as I strive to improve. Shame comes later, when you improve considerably and see just how horrible you were back then; but it's something that you shouldn't hide away. Instead, you should be proud of making it so far.

I don't understand it when you say that her face is melting off to the right. It's one thing when everybody tells right and left of the picture uniformly, but it's confusing when some use the viewer's POV and the others correctly refer to the subject. But to clarify, here's a reference I used to correct the face (yeah, the angle is different); and here's the guide about feminine heads, which I studied:
https://design.tutsplus.com/articles/the-differences-between-male-and-female-portraits--vector-14954

About the neck... well, it's a really confusing subject. I used to draw female necks really thick (like mine), and was told that they suck. Then I studied some reference and found that necks are generally much longer and thinner, especially in anime. I even found a model with a neck that seemed impossible: http://imgur.com/a/9wS5y

In the end, I still haven't grasped how much the neck could be stretched, and I subconsciously draw shoulders overly narrow since in my first pictures they were too broad and straight (although that was probably the least of many flaws in them) and since my own shoulders look really narrow when I turn my head to look at them or try to feel them, even though their breadth almost reaches the length of my torso. Shoulders would be easy to fix, anyway. For the moment, I'd be glad if the face looks cute and human not only to me with a couple of fellow Japanese lurkers.

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>>2884666

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Can someone critique my shit

So in everyone's opinion, do grid drawings even help? My college had me doing the grid drawing method for photorealistic portraits but I don't feel like I actually LEARNED anything.

>>2885103
Well, the left leg is fucked up completely (along with the buttock), and her breasts, curiously, don't seem to experience any effects of gravity.

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>>2885093

Yeah, like I said I am a beginner so I'm having a lot of trouble expressing what I mean about the face.

It just kinda feels like you can see too much of the right side of her face when so much of the left side of her head and neck is facing the camera so the head feels too flat and not round enough for the face to be positioned where it is, I'm not sure if I'm making sense.

I'm glad you're dedicated though, I attempted to try a few quick doodles of my waifu a day and that fizzled out fast. Now I'm just drawing cubes everyday.

>>2885101
Will dubs make me a better artist?

>>2884357
what should i use over photoshop? its like fucking terrible for digital art, i can honestly draw better in paint. Maybe its cuase no photoshop skills but im at a loss

>>2884928
I literally see no difference. Study facial structure and then worry about colouring techniques

>>2885118
yes

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>>2885109
i wonder how many anons have posted rough sketches of acclaimed/successful artists and gotten critiques on here as a laugh.

>>2885103
i think that was drawn by Richard Williams, one of the best animators to have ever lived.

>>2885132
well i´ve used gimp but only layers and brushes as useful, everything else sucks

>tfw your brain will not let you get perspective or foreshortening
Fuck

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>>2885026
If you're still here anon, Is this any better?

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is good?

>>2885166
amazing
the tufts get smaller as they go into the distance remember.

i will never imrpove, my skill still is at fucking elementary school level. seeing everyones "art" in this thread really waked me up that you cant become good if you havent been born with the talent.

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gave the op pic a really quick chance with nothing special yet going on

>>2885173
NOT GONNA MAKE IT

>>2885173
its the same guy just complaining instead of grinding. how petulant can you be. go lift weights and stop masturbating
reported

>>2885169
go back to deviantart

>>2885173
JUST FUCKING DO IT YOU FAG
WORK HARD
PRACTICE LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER
AND GIT GUD
I BELIEVE, ANON

>>2885171
I'll work on that immediately, thanks anon.

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Posting my adult art because no adult thread.
Rip a hole in my heart and tell me why i suck

>>2885132
Clip Studio Paint >1.4 is a good choice.

>>2885110
No, you're actually making a lot of sense. I knew for myself that the back of her head is too far to the right. Shifting the front of her skull to the right, I forgot to shift the back in the opposite direction. If pic related is one of those doodles, then I must say it looks cute and expressive. With some elbow grease, it could evolve into a pleasing comical style.

>>2885134
If you don't see any difference, then you should probably worry about your eyes. (I suppose you never won a single "Find N differences" game.) Even on the thumbnail, I can see the most noticeable changes, and you don't have to look at it in full view to notice the smallest change to her nose.

>>2885173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

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I invented a plane-based face construct and tried to understand the proportions local to the form's movement. My goal by the end of the week is to be able to draw this head without any references from all eye-level angles and some extreme angles

>>2883995 It's me again for continuity's sake

>>2885195
why no pupils

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Is this good for a begginer?

>>2885258
dubs and this image is now a meme

>>2885260
It's literally the same guy who posts it anon
Don't fall for the faggot's bait

>>2885264
reroll

>>2885254
Much small, very difficult

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>>2885171
I finally finished it anon, I think its a nice improvement over the last one.

>>2885308
really really good
make sure to get the outline of the cube hidden i think

>>2885308
why are u posting work that is not yours?

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>>2885312
Thank you anon, noted for next time.

>>2885314
Lol what?

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>>2885317
Windows 7

>>2885314
extensive search proves its legit
are you >>2885173 by any chance?

>>2885317
LOL anon i was joking.

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Been feeling really stuck with my art lately. I know it's bad I'm just not sure where to start improvements.

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>>2885308
Nice job! I think if I would critique it then the biggest issue is that it is too uniform. All the clumps of fur are pretty much the exact same size and painted the same way. I think you can make it to some parts are softer, some are more defined, some shapes are bigger than other etc. In the shadow the textures will be less visible.

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>>2885327
>Indirectly complimenting someone else on /ic/

>>2885308
Whoa, anon can you teach me how to render fur?

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>>2885331
Ah yes very true, everything does look the same, I guess looking at more refs would help me with that issue.

Thank you for the feedback!

>>2885333
Nice trips
But in all seriousness I've simply been looking at tutorials and real life refs.

>>2885332
it's was a compliment it idiot. <3

>>2885049
Are you drawing that nigga from Deus Ex?

>>2885328
delete your entire """artstyle""""
and start drawing from scratch again

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vanishing points too close again orz

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>>2885103
>>2885140
yuup the guy who wrote the animators survival kit

>>2885308
Are you gonna use your fur drawing skills to draw cute fluffy kit kats?

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Please critique

How do I move away from drawing cartoony-like?

>>2885355
why tho

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>>2885371
I already draw kitty's I'm just trying to improve my skills in a more realistic way so I can submit a nice portfolio and hopefully get into Uni.

>>2885376
dont cell shade

>>2885376
>this is cartoonlike
This looks better than anything I can do.

>>2885380
you cant improve garbage, start over

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hi anons

>>2885385
Don't listen to this abrasive faggot

Study your fundamentals

>>2885385
>just tell me whats wrong with it

>>2885376
If you don't want it to look cartoony then you need to get more specific and naturalistic shapes and colours, and get rid of the linework and cell shading.

>>2885390
I have to admit, I'm impressed by the rendering of the dick.

>>2885398
>get rid of the linework

I never understood this. What is the purpose of linework if I am going to get rid of it anyway? What am I supposed to do when I get rid of it?

>>2885376
It looks cartoony because of your retarded background with thick lines like in the cartoons. The crusader guy is fine.

>>2885400
Well you can leave it in if you want, but it will make it look more cartoony. And the purpose of linework is not always to be in the final, it is just to get the drawing aspects correct. Many painters do linework first to place everything and get the design in, then will cover it up with tones. I usually paint right overtop the lines since if you just paint under them then remove the lines it often looks bad.

>>2885376

use reference anon. that is the all you can really do. the rest takes time and practice.

honest answer.

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>>2885381
Lol that wasn't the kind of kit kat I meant. Good luck with uni though, looks like you're on your way!

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Drawing from imagination, I need someone to point out my mistakes.

>>2885408
you're not ready!

draw from life for a few years. you will see a massive improvement when you draw from imagination

>>2885408
Flat, unfinished, anatomy issues, broken perspective, overall shit. Go draw it again 50 times and this time put it on a ground plane and maybe create a better composition.

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>>2885406
Ah my apologies!

Thanks!

>>2885411
are you sure about that? i thought for sure you had to practice drawing from imagination as

>>2885417
oh my mistake you're right! i forgot! then after that slit your wrists!

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>>2885411
Not that anon but I started out drawing from imagination.

I'll let you be the judge of whether my skill is good or not

>>2885419
From ref or from imagination in this one?

>>2885422
This is from imagination but I spent quite a bit of time studying armor

>>2885411
>draw from life for a few years.

I don't want to end up like proko.

>>2885414
>Go draw it again 50 times and this time put it on a ground plane

Okay, I will do this.

>>2885424
true u so gud already

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Draw good like Franken Fran.

>>2885434
tnk u bby

>>2885460
Screen tones everywhere

>>2884437
would be nice if there were more posters like you

>tfw it hits you just how bad you really are

been drawing every other day for the past 3 months and I have zero improvement. I've never had so much trouble learning anything in my life

>>2885470
Let me guess, you're one of those people who never study.

>>2885381
Sigh. Such a waste of talent.

>>2885399
Seconding this. The dick is way better than everything else in that image.

>>2885471
studying is all I do. loomis, bridgeman, gottfried bammes, keys to drawing, art of drawing animals
i have 25 gigs of vilppu videos that i've watched and drawn with over and over

>>2885478
I'm not going to waste my life drawing furry porn anon :) But it certainly is the easiest way for me to make money right now!

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H E L P
E
L
P

>>2885470
Post your work often, ask for help on what you're having trouble with, and maybe we can help you move forward.

>>2885424
What's wrong with Proko?

>>2885500
nothings wrong with (((proko)))
you arent a bigot are you goyim?

>>2885490
perspective is really weird. you can see the top of her head but also the underside of her nose/brow/lips?

>>2885506
No I'm just new here.

>>2885399
>>2885482
Thanks anons, I guess too much porn is good for something

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Help me out fellas. Is this alright?

>>2885508
he just shills his paid services a lot, isnt that skilled and has infiltrated sacred ground such as the sticky. which is why people distrust him.

>>2885500
He made a drawing from imagination live stream and failed horribly. I mean, really horribly.

At the end he said to not wait 8 years before you start drawing from imagination.

Here's an edited short version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h4-2HRHaHI

>>2885525
>At the end he said to not wait 8 years before you start drawing from imagination.
>>2885411
Really makes me think.

>>2885525
So how useful is drawing from life or references before jumping into imagination?

>>2885514
>>2885506
I don't care about him being jewish (is he actually?) or allegedly shilling.

It's just that hes fantastic at life drawing and teaching and he knows anatomy no doubt but can't draw from imagination, like he's seems to be almost as bad as me.

The short edited version >>2885525 didn't include the other stuff in the stream which was also rather bad.

>>2885411
That's why I reject the advice to first do life drawing for a few years. I trust proko when he says to now wait years before you start drawing from imagination.

>>2885533
>So how useful is drawing from life or references before jumping into imagination?
Very useful, if there's one thing you have to break out of, it's symbol drawing. Once you can do that, then you can draw from imagination. Also drawing from life/references helps you draw things grounded and not floating in your mind. This is important for perspective which leads to foreshortening and depth and a lot of stuff that makes drawings look good.

>>2885538
>Once you can do that, then you can draw from imagination.

Do you think that proko is still doing symbol drawing?

>>2885542
No, he just has zero visual library and is not used to drawing and lighting things without references guiding him.

>>2885544
In that case the statement that once you got rid of symbol drawing you can draw from imagination is not true.

>>2885542
The two things are not mutual. I meant that once you stop symbol drawing, you can now draw from imagination more correctly because you aren't symbolizing your own imagination. You're actually seeing your imagination for what it really is. It's like removing a filter from your mind that was making your imagination foggy and unclear. Proko copies perfectly well because he can see exactly what is there in front of him, that means he's not symbol drawing.

>>2885547
It's only partially true. You do need to get past symbol drawing to draw from imagination, but it's not the only prerequisite.

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>>2885525
what a fucking fraud.

the whole point of drawing is to be able to draw from imagination. why would anyone want to be a really shitty human camera

>>2885557
>the whole point of drawing is to be able to draw from imagination
>there are people on /ic/ who actually believe this

>>2885561
Would you feel better if he said *for most people* it's the whole point? Fucking autist.

>>2885563
No, because it's not the point for most people. If you think it is, then you are in a tiny bubble and need to get out more and look at more artists and learn some art history.

>>2885566
not him but you are wrong

>>2885566
Can you prove your claims?

>>2885566
>Hey we need an artist to create some concepts for us, are you interested?
>Sorry I can only draw things that there is already a picture of.
>...

>>2885566
Not gonna make it.

>>2885567
>>2885570
Outside of /ic/ and maybe a few commercial artists it's not the goal. The goal of most artists it to create a good piece of art that conveys what they want, and most artists use reference to do this. The whole idea of drawing from entirely from imagination is very very recent and basically is the result of models being too expensive now and fast turnarounds needed for commercial work. Historically almost all painters used models or photos, and even now pretty much all fine artists and most illustrators use extensive references. Even if they do draw from imagination partially, they wouldn't consider it their main goal.

Seriously guys, start learning some basic art history and learn how different artists at different points in time make images. And realize that illustration and concept art are both tiny niches in the art world and there are tons of artists that work outside those fields.

>>2885575
>>2885574
>>2885570
>>2885567
>>2885566
>>2885563
>>2885561
>>2885557
>>2885551
>>2885550
>>2885544
>>2885547
>>2885542
>>2885538
>>2885535
>>2885533
>>2885526
>>2885525
>>2885514
>>2885506
>>2885507
>>2885508
>>2885510
>>2885500
Wrong thread.

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>>2885561
yes eventually the whole point of drawing is to produce a product that can sell.

drawing really good realistic figures is non marketable. good luck with that..unless you're parents have connections.

draw, get gud, draw some more, then draw some more again, then start drawing form imagination. see how creative you actually are.

>>2885561
In the past you would be correct but since cameras replaced photorealistic artists the only point now is to draw things that cannot be photographed in real life

>>2885577
>Even if they do draw from imagination partially, they wouldn't consider it their main goal.

How do you know? Have you asked them? Or do you just make claims? If they come up with something new (for example a semi-realistic fantasy character after looking up medieval armor), was the main goal not to come up with something new, ergo their imagination?

as >>2885574 pointed out, no one nowadays (yeah, art history, we talk about today, not a time before cameras) your chances to get paid and not being able to draw from imagination is very low.

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>>2885093
>I even found a model with a neck that seemed impossible
Are you retarded? Oh wait why am I asking.
Her head is tilted up and she's stretching it forward a bit that's why her neck seems longer, and the neck connects kinda high up on the back of the skull.

>>2885525
>>2885424
>I don't want to end up like proko.

Wow you got memed. Drawing from imagination means learning to draw from reference. Both go hand in hand. All artists do it, especially the better ones because they know that if they want their imaginative work to be convincing, it has to look real. Proko may not be a concept artist by profession, but he can do concept art if he really wanted to because his figure drawing is good. You're fooled into thinking he's as bad as you with imagination from a demo video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGjdt2-5Ulw

Whereas your drawings from imagination will always look shitty in comparison because you've never learned how to draw anything from real life. That's not to say you shouldn't practice from imagination. You should. But works from imagination rely heavily on real life. For instance, you're drawing people, armor, and weapons. They look terrible because you don't understand how to draw the real thing. No amount of drawing from imagination will fix that. Drawing from life can only help you with your imaginative work.

>>2885423
You're proving this point. You studied the real thing to know how to draw one from imagination.

>>2885632
t. proko

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When I was reading the w/ic/kis I noticed the term symbol drawing, and it got me wondering. Are cartoons and cartoonic styles symbol drawings? If yes does that means that you do not NEED to have a realistic style? Surely a realistic style is the one with the highest skill ceiling and the one where a person has the biggest room to improve on, but at the same time 90% of the artists you see on the internet and even the ones who were hired for works such as concept artists and comic artists willingly and openly choose to use symbol drawing.

All that is, assuming a drawing is either a symbol drawing or a realistic drawing.

>>2885049
I would concentrate on understanding form and improving lines first.

>>2885036
I would start with perspective, form and slowly Loomis or Hampton (head construction) + some studies of portraits, I bet you couldn't draw a portrait from ref, yet you're trying to draw one from imagination. That's not gonna work.

>>2885632
Alright, I will do more life drawings. It makes sense that you can only draw what you know.

Though the guy I answered to implied I shouldn't draw from imagination until a few years later.

>>2885411
>you're not ready!
>draw from life for a few years.

>>2885645
>I would start with perspective, form and slowly Loomis or Hampton (head construction) + some studies of portraits, I bet you couldn't draw a portrait from ref, yet you're trying to draw one from imagination. That's not gonna work.
Do not try to help that guy, he refuses to listen and he will turn into one of those DA autists that any kind of criticism as a personal attack

>>2885648
Okay then. If that's what he wants... I believe that if you want to improve and be good, you'll find a way. Let's see where he ends.

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>>2885643
Guys pls respond.

>>2885653
>he doesn't know what symbol drawing is
Not gonna make it.

>>2885655
>he knows what symbol drawing is and is actively studying it
Not gonna make it.

>>2885643
>Are cartoons and cartoonic styles symbol drawings?

Depends on the comic, duh. (most are)

>>2885658
>he also doesn't know what symbol drawing is
Not gonna make it too.

>>2885655
>>2885657
Stop with this bullshit, it's a legitimate question, if a drawing is either realistic or symbol drawing then many professional artists willingly choose symbol drawing.

Comics, cartoons, webcomics, animas, manhwas, animated shows, none of those are on a realistic style. Furthermore many people who want to learn how to draw do not want to be able to draw a realistic picture so pointing them on that direction seems counterproductive for both the learner and this board since it generates more confusion and repeated questions.

>>2885653
Practically everything that isn't photo realistic is a symbol, it can be taken to the extreme like caricatures or anime do.

>>2885666
>>2885667
Holy shit, how has no one gotten it right yet? This fucking place. Just goes to show who actually draws in here.

>>2885643
the idea is that you have to learn how to draw properly in order to symbol draw your cartoons otherwise it looks like shit.

i should note that anything worthwhile isnt symbol drawn. good animanga isnt and you shouldnt aim for it even though some things are.

>>2885643
Drawing is always going to be symbol drawing in some respect.

Because it's impossible to copy the real thing on the paper, we're only creating the illusion that it's on the page via tones and lines.

The challenge for artists is to try to approximate the real thing by refining their symbol drawing to such a degree that it begins to look visually indistinguishable.

So we are only ever symbol drawing. It's just that you can have a very sophisticated symbol drawing that mimics the real thing closely, or you can have one that is a more simple and stylized which is basically what a cartoon is.

Just gonna this drop this shit in since it's actually possible to get good without knowing the difference but symbol drawing is NOT the opposite of realistic drawing. People right now keep comparing the two.

>>2885681
Do you have autism?

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>>2885667
>>2885681
So shouldn't the sticky have something about teaching GOOD symbol drawing, because certain things such as perspective, lighting, shading, color composition and consistence of shapes can still apply even to symbol drawing. And people are clearly able to learn those things separately since many times you see an artists with good shading but terrible perspective, good anatomy but terrible coloring.

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>>2885643
Not all 'cartoon' styles are symbol drawing. And ultimately, all 'cartoon' styles are based in reality, even if it is someone's watered down version of reality. All styles are emulating someone's interpretation of reality.

It is difficult to understand concepts like form and value if you never study the real thing.

btw, style is much more than how cartoony something is drawn

>>2885688
/beg/inners are so retarded, god damn. There is no such thing as GOOD and BAD symbol drawing.

>>2885681
>Drawing is always going to be symbol drawing in some respect.

Define symbol and then define symbol drawing before you make such a bold claim.

>>2885692
You are arguing about semantics, you have the person that's trying to mimic real life to the best of his ability, and he may do a good job or a bad job, in the second case it's what I was calling bad symbol drawing. The second case is of someone who purposefully draws something distinct from reality, call it stylized if you want, I was also calling this symbol drawing because it's exactly what it is, a person drawing something symbolic, a representative of an actual thing.

>>2885688
It's easier for beginners to understand how drawing works by defining this thing called "symbol drawing" and having them practice through it.

There are already so many beginners that for some reason don't understand that and get stuck in rudimentary symbol drawing like drawing almond shapes for eyes and a dot for the iris. The first thing is to always teach them how to see and draw what they see.

The sticky IS guiding you to good symbol drawing, but by that point it's just called drawing. Drawing is symbol drawing. We're creating visual symbols to indicate something real. But we make the distinction between beginner symbol drawing and advanced because it's necessary.

Somebody can draw a portrait with a circle and a smiley face. Another can draw it with perspective, form, lighting, and it will look amazing. Both are symbols for the real thing, are they not? It's just that one is more sophisticated and the other very basic. Drawing is an approximation, and all those techniques work together and improve each other.

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o-opinions?

>>2885697
Symbol drawing and stylization are different. Get the fucking difference into your head. I know we don't have a fucking teacher and all, but at least don't echo the wrong thing.

>>2885700
finish it

>>2885702
Define symbol / symbol drawing.

>>2885698
>Both are symbols for the real thing, are they not?
No they're not dumbass. You are referring to a different meaning of symbol than the one that is used in symbol drawing.

>>2885698
Still, what about those whose objective isn't to learn how to draw something extremely detailed and realistic, call it "stylized" as this autist >>2885702 puts it?

>>2885716
Whoa, so good. Do you have anymore or an in color?

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>>2885694

A symbol of an abstraction made by the human brain in an attempt to more easily store information that captures the essence of something without a necessity to render out all the little details. Symbol drawing is by proxy, the expression of this phenomenon by the artist from the human brain, and it is the main thing beginner artists are trying to understand, and that is that in order to really draw what you see in front of you, you must learn to separate abstraction from reality.

It's also the reason why Autistic people are so good at drawing with maximum detail without much training, because their mind lacks the capacity to form abstraction.

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>>2885717
Had to repost her as the initial file was way too big. So I did this at work, didn't had a reference available as monitor were taken with work related stuff.
More stuff you can find on my DA, Razorbliss101

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New to drawing but I was looking at another picture while I did this.

>>2885724
If that is your definition and since you seem very liberal in applying this definition, I must ask, are polygon renderings, like in ultra realistic video games, symbols?

They are, after all, just an abstraction or reality, right?

But wouldn't it be ridiculous to call them symbols? When I think of a symbol I think of the "STOP" shield.

>>2885729
thats a nice drawing anon

let's put it on the fridge

>>2885729
Pretty good, you've got potential. Keep at it anon. Keep drawing that anime. You might want to learn how a head works though, you kind of could make it higher. Also you could learn about the spacing between eyes. Also the ears and how to draw full bodies instead of a half shot.

>>2885711
>You are referring to a different meaning of symbol than the one that is used in symbol drawing.

I already said that.
>It's easier for beginners to understand how drawing works by defining this thing called "symbol drawing" and having them practice through it.

But I'm also making the point that drawing in general is creating a visual representation of something real, which makes it a symbol.

It's just that we have methods of making them more realistic, that sets the different between the beginner and the pro.

>>2885713
Sure, but learning the former (drawing realistically), will take your stylization much further than having never learned it. I think that's the point of people who push fundamentals on beginners. Think about your favorite manga artists. The ones with good art have very solid drawing skills rooted in drawing realistically.

I think we do tend to jump on the conclusion that everyone must want to be a well-rounded artist. So we overlook alternative options that people might want to take.

>>2885724
That's a good definition of it.

>>2885736
>Sure, but learning the former (drawing realistically), will take your stylization much further than having never learned it.
This is isn't true necessarily. People pushed this belief too hard and it fell on its ass, because really beginners should just draw from imagination and from references of their favorite artists. Although you can't teach that because that involves "wasting" time which really just means spending a lot of time on your own instead of being taught how to do something.

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>>2885706
I tried

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>>2884357
I did a self portrait pls bully.

>>2885729
Thanks for the feedback. I started painting with oil paints a few months ago but I can't work on those while I'm out and about so I decided to pick up drawing as well. I don't really have much experience but I've learned a lot in a short period of time.

>>2885736
>Sure, but learning the former (drawing realistically), will take your stylization much further than having never learned it. I think that's the point of people who push fundamentals on beginners. Think about your favorite manga artists. The ones with good art have very solid drawing skills rooted in drawing realistically.

>I think we do tend to jump on the conclusion that everyone must want to be a well-rounded artist. So we overlook alternative options that people might want to take.

Sure that's a pretty good and logical explanation but part of teaching is making the student want to learn, if there was a simple paragraph on the linked articles about all of this I wouldn't be confused about it.

>>2885724
That's a very good definition of it, the "bad" symbol drawing would be a person drawing inaccurately because he or she is not trained to make a proper detailed illusion, while the "good" symbol drawing would be a person deliberately making a simplistic or inaccurate drawing to pass a different feeling, emotion, idea...

>>2885736
>>2885724
>That's a good definition of it.

A 3d model of a human, ultra realistic, would by this definition be a symbol.

Since polygons only describe the surface and since there's a hardware limit they are by their very nature just an abstraction, made by the human brain, "in an attempt to more easily store information that captures the essence of something without a necessity to render out all the little details."

little details like the underlying anatomy beyond the surface.

The usage of "symbol" like that would however be retarded, symbols are meant to drastic abstractions. To say that all drawings are in a way symbols is kind of retarded, because if you apply the definition so loosely I have to ask - what ISN'T a symbol?

If you call 3d renderings and realistic drawing symbols and feel the need to be an smartass about it on anonymous board you are kind of retarded and most definitely autistic beyond repair.

>>2885747
>That's a very good definition of it, the "bad" symbol drawing would be a person drawing inaccurately because he or she is not trained to make a proper detailed illusion, while the "good" symbol drawing would be a person deliberately making a simplistic or inaccurate drawing to pass a different feeling, emotion, idea...

What then ISN'T a symbol?

>>2885749
>>2885752
You, I like you.

>>2885752
Reality, even live action movies are technically moving symbols because they are nothing more than pictures.

>>2885730


>If that is your definition and since you seem very liberal in applying this definition, I must ask, are polygon renderings, like in ultra realistic video games, symbols?

Yes, they are symbols too.

>But wouldn't it be ridiculous to call them symbols?

No, it's not ridiculous to call them symbols. I would offer to say that there's a spectrum from your ability to lock out abstraction and render out a more truthful vision of reality of the subject you are attempting to draw. Truly, all drawing is symbol drawing, it is just that some are more truthful to reality and the laws that make it.

Obviously, for easy of understanding we don't get into these level of depth and we just say ''Hey dude, you're symbol drawing''.

>When I think of a symbol I think of the "STOP" shield.

You also think of symbols when you think of a shield, or anything, even my own words and the meaning you derive from them. We understand the world through abstraction.

>>2885754
>>2885755
Abstract artists please go. This is a place for REAL artists.

>>2885754
If everything including reality is a symbol, the word becomes meaningless.

>>2885755
>No, it's not ridiculous to call them symbols.
Really? It would not feel weird to you to refer to them as symbols in real life?

By the way what is the difference between "symbol" and "abstraction"?

>>2885762
Now you're just trolling.
>>2885763
You asked what isn't a symbol and I said that reality isn't a symbol, there's a comma in there.

>>2885766
My bad, I didn't notice the comma.

If even the slightest form of abstraction is a symbol, and if every symbol is an abstraction, what is the difference between "symbol" and "abstraction"?

>>2885763

I would say a symbol if an abstracted concept made by the brain in an attempt to simplify information, abstraction is the process that makes such symbols exist. For example, a 5 year old kid sees a dog, the brain abstract the information and creates a symbol and stores it, then the kid attempts to draw a dog, and he draws a wobbly ellipse for the entire body, another small one of the head, some lines for the limbs and , some stick for feet and some more sticks for the tail and ears. That's the symbol, it's simplistic, but it communicates a complex idea very easily.

>>2885771
Is there a difference between abstract art and non abstract art?

>>2885775
Not him but every art is technically abstract I'd say, but what we call abstract art is a style that doesn't try to mimic any specific idea or symbol.

>>2885775

I am not a connoisseur of either, but if I had to take a wild assumption I would say that abstract art concerns itself with grouping abstracted concepts (that is, simplifying to the core of it to the best of your ability to extract things) that are based in reality. I think the best abstract art out there is likely to be the ones that have relationships between the shapes/colors/lines (whatever) that are presented the most accurate to reality, even if by themselves they don't communicate something that is very easy to understand and rely more on a subconscious understanding/response from the observer, which can be interpreted in a myriad of ways due to individual differences.

Non abstract art on the other hard, simply does not go into such level of reduction, and instead maintains more detail that would allow an observer to more easily understand the ideas or concepts being shared by the artist, so there's less of an error of misinterpretation, I suppose.
That's my guess

so whats with all the people larping as artists

>>2885797
it's fun

>>2885797
they dont want to go back to getting better at drawing because its depressing to see their own art

>>2885791
If despite every art being abstract there is a difference between abstract and non-abstract art, and we can distinguish them - do you think that we can distinguish between symbol drawing and non symbol drawing in a similar manner despite everything - technically - being a symbol?

>>2885806
>>2885806
>>2885806

>>2885806
>>2885806
>>2885806

>>2885806
>>2885806
>>2885806

>>2885806
>>2885806
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>>2885802

>do you think that we can distinguish between symbol drawing and non symbol drawing in a similar manner despite everything - technically - being a symbol?

Yes, I think we do that already quite well, or rather our brain does it for us. When a drawing doesn't look good, no matter what kind of rational arguments you come up with, it won't look good. The more a drawing is based on the fundamental rules that make up reality or are more truthful to the way our eyes/brain sees the world, the better the drawing is, at least from a technical stand point. I don't see anyone bothering to change the term ''symbol drawing'' for a more accurate one anytime soon, and I am not sure there's a necessity for it either.

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>>2884358
Did I do good, d/ic/ks?

Any advice for hair? I'm currently drawing the hair as if there were no light source and then using an eraser to lighten where the light hits. Lips are also challenging.

>>2885036
The plaid jacket gives away who the character is, and lemme tell you, even if your drawing was good it would still be wrong.
Yuuka has wavy hair, learn your damn 2hus.