It's NSFW artwork the only way to earn money as an artist.

>>2770932
>It's NSFW artwork the only way to earn money as an artist.
wtf do people actually believe this?

>>2770943
Uh, yeah?
Don't you pay attention at all at what's going on within art communities online?

>>2770932
Actually OP, artist's that draw G-rated material are much more popular than artists that just draw porn. You have to understand you can reach a broader audience by drawing sfw art.

>>2770955
but is there money in it? I've seen so many webcomics fail. concept art is some resume, interview, work for some shitty people kind of job. I don't know of any patreons other than sakimi and kron that have really exploded with popularity in the sfw realm. maybe some who have been building a following for a decade or more, but not any new ones.

they may be more popular, but I've seen sfw artists with thousands of likes on each image and a patreon that only brings about $45 a month. I can't even pay my Internet bill with that. I'm not that educated when it comes to sfw commissions, but does it really happen? porn seems much more requested and profitable from what I see. fuck industry jobs, I want to work for myself as a freelancer not work for some cunt in an office setting.

>>2770961
Tell me more about this webcomics

>>2770961
WLOP is making 120k a year from his patreon alone. Guweiz is at 1.5k per month already for not doing much other than just his studies.

A bunch of 100k+ watcher artists I follow have 30-60k per year patreons for doing SFW stuff and not offering much in terms of incentives. They still make a good amount of money outside of Patreon via commissions/prints

But yes, if you don't have followers in the 60k+ range porn seems to be much easier to get money from, but it seems like its much harder to grow out of porn though. Ie, if you ever want to stop doing porn you're going to lose most of your patrons.

>>2770984
>But yes, if you don't have followers in the 60k+ range

I guess getting 60k+ followers seems insane to me. I've never really ventured anywhere outside of the porn realm sad to say, so I don't even know where the big circles to get followers are other than tumblr and deviantart. I guess I should do some research since I don't really want to do porn. Should I just start posting things on tumblr and deviantart until I amass a following or something?

>>2770961
For commissions, even people I follow in the 3k+ watcher range have no problems filling their commission queue.

Cute/Kawaii/Chibi art is especially popular too (a lot of the deviantart audience are younger).

>>2770984
>A bunch of 100k+ watcher artists I follow have 30-60k per year patreons for doing SFW stuff and not offering much in terms of incentives.

Can you link some of their pages please? I'm not doubting you I just want to see how they do things.

>>2770988
You need 60k+ for the patreon bux for doing nothing. Commissions come way easier. Just a few thousand real watchers (not bots) would give you a pretty constant supply of commissioners.

I think deviantArt is one of the better places to get SFW commissions from, mostly because a huge portion of the audience are kids, and a decent amount of them have disposable income.

How does someone go about getting commissions from companies? Wouldn't that be easier for the OP provided that his skill is high enough?

>>2770994
What kinds of pictures are these sfw artists drawing where they can get steady commissions? Pop culture or something?

>>2770984
followers on what platform

>>2770961
Of course there is money to it.

By drawing art that is G-rated, you are making it acceptable for everyone to view.

While if you only did porn, your audience would be limited to horny autists,teenagers, and neckbeards. You would scare away everyone else that would be a potential customer.

>>2770990
https://www.patreon.com/katefox
https://www.patreon.com/wlop
https://www.patreon.com/shilin
https://www.patreon.com/Mikeinel (this guy also does porn, but that's under a different alias/account)

...Actually pretty hard to find people with patreons, seems like most people I follow don't have it at all, or only started in the last year or so.

>>2771000
http://hyanna-natsu.deviantart.com/journal/Commissions-On-Hold-352262170

This style is SUPER popular on deviantArt. She's one of the more popular artists using this style, and her prices are comparatively higher than her competitors, but she has a 4 month waitlist for commissions, and she pumps them out like once every 2 days in addition to her own projects.

>>2771005
deviantArt

>>2770984
>but it seems like its much harder to grow out of porn though. Ie, if you ever want to stop doing porn you're going to lose most of your patrons.
Most the ones who do it handle the transition very poorly. I've seen them do everything from guilt tripping to outright shaming the audience they've relied on for years. They act like anyone who doesn't support their decision is some asshole born from the loins of Satan and that moving away from porn is some noble cause brought down on the wings of angels and demanded by God himself. They also do everything in their power to launch a DMCA crusade to shut down any place hosting their old porn.

>>2771007
Porn stirs up a natural human instinct in people and if you attach it to properties people adore and maybe even fetishes that are commonly looked down on then people are much more willing to let money flow freely from their wallets.

If you're doing g-rated art you need to find the g-rated equivalent of what I just described. You don't have to be the best artist but you need to engage with an audience on a primal level. Otherwise you're just another guy among literally THOUSANDS of artists uploading nice artwork but not really incentivizing anyone to pay for it.

That's why artists like Sakimi and Kron do so much fanart and only pepper in a few original works in between that. Fan art is part of that primal response.

>>2771018
Im not denying drawing fan art is the quickest way to gain an audience and make money.

Fan-art follows completely different rule set than any other art since people have emotions attached to characters and themes from established IPs

>>2771014
I just had a really bad realization that everything I've ever known has been a lie. What a fucking epiphany. I don't even know how to continue my life as this point, it's too overwhelming to contemplate.

>>2771024
I guarantee you you can't draw like that

>>2771024
Well if you only browse /ic the only people you're going to hear about are the super stars and everyone else who didn't make it, but you have to realize just like in any field there's people between in between those 2 extremes making pretty good to okay money, but you'll never hear about them because you limit yourself to just /ic.

>>2771018
This, need to stir up some emotions. tapping into peoples sex drive is the easiest way, so Porn/cute girls.

>>2771027
I'm close enough that I can get there without really worrying about it. My main problem is rendering, which I've been trying to learn realistic rendering. Cutesy simplistic/cell shading is something I've done for a while. Much of her art is very primitive, and many of the faces look like your basic anime faces. She doesn't seem to have much of a style in my eyes. If she posted something somewhere I wouldn't be able to tell her art apart from the hundreds of other anime artists.

>>2771027
and if you're talking about her chibi characters, I could 100% do them.

>>2771033
>>2771034
post work. Not trolling, just curious

I love to draw cutsy anime girls(at the moment theyre kinda shit), so give to me straight guys. is being a freelance commission kawaii anime artist a viable life career choice to work towards?

>>2771053
If you are able to sell it, everything is marketable. I wouldn't recommend to go this direction though.

>>2771066
why not?

File: 1449070446101.jpg (14KB, 255x186px) Image search: [Google]

14KB, 255x186px

Is dA even a source of followers in this day and age?

I have never been really active over there, but I notice about 90% of my followers come from the pre-2012 dA era. I rarely get any follower or views these days, and my art has greatly improved over the years.

>>2770932
you could always do traditional art. that will always be lucrative. fine arts outside of sotheby's sales is still pretty standard stuff. you'd probably have an easier time making a living selling landscapes, still lifes, and portraits than trying to follow the latest digital trends. digital markets are mainly for 18-30 year olds. fine arts includes that market AND every other age if you develop good fundamentals and develop your tastes.

>>2771121
It is, but dA is stacked against people who aren't already semi-popular or established. Pretty hard to get a following if all you post are studies or OCs with no existing fanbase.

>>2771121
post something of yours, and how often do you post something new there? are you active or one of the once a month posters? do you make original art or do you make fanart?

>>2771121
You really have to work for your followers on dA, its not like tumblr/pixiv where you can just work and tag and you'll get viewers. You basically have to whore yourself out on dA if you're a nobody, but after a certain point you can just sit back and rake in the watchers without putting in much effort.

>>2771121
DA is still a great place.
Better than tumblr when it comes to searching for art, but loses to Pixiv on what kind of content you can post

>>2770932
Why are the people on this board so incredibly out of touch to even ask such things?

How can you possibly come to the conclusion that drawing porn is the ONLY way to earn money as an artist?

Jesus fuck, /ic/.

File: 135085320541.jpg (56KB, 576x418px)

56KB, 576x418px

>>2771130
>>2771131
You don't really get it, it's not about quality or absolute numbers, but about proportion.

My work has always been "niche" and very sparsely posted, but it USED TO render me viewers, and nowadays it's as if I was posting it to myself, no living soul gives a fuck.

It's like they lost their visibility on whatever corner of dA they used to get some. Maybe it's to do with the displaying system not favoring unknown artists anymore.

>>2771152
We will never know since we have zero information on you. For all we know you could be posting noodle people and the only reason you got views was because you were one of the only people posting noodle people with cool hats back in 2012.

>>2771152
You're right in that the changes in dA have pretty much killed any exposure you used to have. The new UI pretty much favors only popular/trending pieces. The default 'home' page for logged in users is the popular/24 hours category.

For logged out users, there's this weird page that does show some 'newest' art, but because there are so many users on dA your stuff is not going to be up there for more than a few seconds. 5 years ago you might have been able to get your new piece to stay up there for 5 minutes, which would get you decent exposure if it was interesting. It's also much more of a hassle to try to find new art.

The same with fanart, if you search for something using the UI it defaults to 'popular all time'.

Also, if your watchers accounts are old, most of them are probably dead. If you don't have active watchers your view count is basically going to be near zero if you don't do something else to gain visibility.

>>2771157
see >>2771167
There has been some major changes to DA that definitely prevent unknown and even lesser known artists from getting exposure. Just browsing that site is a fucking chore. Downloading from it is an even bigger chore.

With pixiv I can use tags to find shit easily. I can use batch downloaders to download shit easily. If I get a premium account things get even easier. DA is a shit hole and any artist that posts exclusively to it usually doesn't get my attention as a viewer and certainly won't get my patreon bux. I can't fucking stand that site.

I actively monitor over 5000 accounts on Pixiv with no issue. On DA I can barely stomach actively monitoring a few dozen. It's a shit site that has worn out it's welcome and has always had issues with censoring it's users with arbitrary rules that apply to some and not others.

>>2771152
How do you fare outside DA? I make original art only and I'm OK at it. The style is on the lines of Moebius/ Miyazaki, ligne claire, ink, traditional wet media. I draw mostly characters.

I rarely get more than 2-3 likes (from new users) per piece on social media platforms (Instagram, Tumblr, Twitter), sometimes I get reblogged but it stops rather quickly. I got some hundred-ish followers in 1 year totes. I regularly get new followers but it's so painfully slow. Is this just a natural process?

(I don't care much about growing an audience since I've pretty much given up on art as a career and I'm going for the day job route, but still.)

>>2771450
Different anon here. Until you have a piece that goes through the right rebloggers or your style/content/composition delivers something that thumbnails well and can trend through a popular tag, it's a slow ride.

>>2771468
I've noticed that those very few times I made fanart I got a lot more feedback (like 20x), but since 95% of my stuff is original work it just ends there, I gain no followers etc.
I don't think I'm good enough to deserve popularity yet, but after quite a bit of improvement I'm still getting pretty much the same amount of traction I got in the very beginning.

P.S.: Thanks for not making assumptions like "git gud" etc.

>>2771478
Almost everything has an audience, but Tumblr sucks for connecting artists and audiences. You have to game that system and the occasional fanart of a work that matches your style goes far.

Also I did tell you to git gud. Graphic design composition and advertising theory are powerful in the amateur market. Ape color palettes that are popular but shift them to stand out subtly against what what comes up when you search your tags.

I A/B tested a couple pictures and the versions I carefully thumbnailed or colorpicked got more likes. More than I usually had and more than similar pictures in the same timeframe got. I even ran a t-test to see if it was signficant and it was by a small margin with a miniscule effect size because we're talking less than 30.

>>2771450
Yeah, unless you're extremely good you're going to have to actively market yourself if you want to get a steady stream of followers.

Many of the popular tumblr/dA artists are like 50/50 art/marketing

File: S45xOE_hMq7jH6msy7ukQcUEzaMPFwFY8I5xqXjxHmI.jpg (92KB, 575x767px)

92KB, 575x767px

>>2771496
Blog?
Can you talk more about your insights and experimental methods? You sound like you know your stuff compared to the average d/ic/k. I smell a stem major.

>>2771525
>projection and superiority complex

File: 894.png (7KB, 558x565px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 558x565px

>>2771525
I know very little about why art is good and have no innate ability with composition or color, but I do recognize what is aesthetic through comparison. I'm the last person to have any actual insight because I can only copy and rearrange the elements. Also I'm still lacking fundamentals.

I went on /gd/ for a few weeks and picked up some graphic design principles for making an image catch the eye and worked through basic color theory. Then I started paying attention to which thumbnails on here I would open and made little value and hue studies of the composition. I may have also spent a bit of time in cognitive psychology databases.

From there it was just scrolling through tumblr making thumbnails of what was popular and what came up in dailies related to my "art" and playing around with both. Just from watching what I opened I found that it's the more subtle differences that make you click. Contrast is jarring.

I'm in a niche with a lot of shitty autists so there were simple trends. Most of it boils down to good composition, but if you're going to compete, you have to stand out from the competition. I only ran 3 tests, but the hypothesis looks sound that you only have to do one different thing.

>>2771543
Can I have some fries with that salt?

File: Color_diagram_Charles_Hayter.jpg (94KB, 467x750px)

94KB, 467x750px

>>2771582
I think it should go something like this. This applies to the thumbnail most of all and if I could get clicks with how shit I was at the time, something works. These go both ways.

Composition and Value
>If everything is portrait, do landscape.
>little value difference - big blocks of value
>rounded compositions - angular composition
>focus of composition is dark on light background - reverse composition, add blocks of value in between
>complex, noisy compositions - less moebius buildings, more moebius sky
There's probably something big you could do with the rhythm and gesture here, but that's not a thing you can describe with words.

Saturation
>Add subtle bits if everything else is raw linework, dial it way back if it's furry porn

Color
>warm - cool
>change the ratios of color in the common palette
>find the dominant color (or the one used sparingly) and base a different palette on it
Really just treat your piece like a color you want to stand out in the rest of the palette.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head. Go to the grocery store and see what catches your eye and compare it to everything else. See what you avoid. That's what you're trying to do.

File: trap.png (537KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

537KB, 1200x1600px

>>2771157
>>2771450
Well, I guess I could show you something. This is what my art looks in terms of quality, although I don't post promiscuous stuff on my galleries.

Apart from dA my only posting place is Tumblr - which also receives almost no attention - it used to, a few years back.

The only "hits" I have are with fanart - but it varies wildly. I drew a new Pokémon on DAY ONE and only got 1 like, I drew a rather complex Touhou fanart and got 1 like, then I drew a character from an ongoing cartoon and got almost 200 notes, including reblogs.
I intend doing some more fanart from this show to see where it goes - although it doesn't really render me that much followers; most rebloggers do it without blinking an eye so they don't even care about the artist, just that single picture.

>>2771496
>thumbnailing
Are you referring to actual thumbnails or just as a compositional concept? Because Tumblr is always full-size, isn't it?

File: anubistancolor.png (928KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

928KB, 1200x1600px

>>2771782
I forgot to mention - I don't blog.
I see people I follow blogging and rambling and talking shit all day long, but I don't have that capacity (nor the desire) to do that. They always have something going on to talk about and people engage a lot.

Definetly not my case. Does this useless blogging actually act in favor of artists? They look like emotional pukeballs of pure immaturity in my eyes, but maybe people like that.

And here is something less polished.

>>2771504
What does "actively market yourself" even mean in this context? Like, what are the actual steps you have to take as an amateur artist without an audience? For example I see lots of popular DA artists have made literally hundreds, if not thousands of comments. What are those? Just randomly commenting on other people's galleries? Is that considered part of marketing yourself? I'm honestly completely clueless about this sort of shit.

>>2771817
>What does "actively market yourself" even mean in this context?
It's the "networking" mystery. My guess is it's part shilling your stuff anywhere you can, part building up an online personality, part dedicating a whole lot of effort on things other than art: thumbnailing your work so it's appealing, getting current with the facts in the industry so you can comment on them, interacting with other artists on the same level / better than you as you so you get noticed.

Artists who just post art don't make it very far unless they're god-tier. You gotta treat each post as a product and build a narrative around it, so popular artists are often artists just by a small degree.

>>2771788
>>2771782
No offense but I have to be honest, you're still in a phase where you need to improve your basics, so you shouldn't worry about popular attention yet.
The competition is fierce these days.

>>2771932
agreed, the art is pretty bad. I honestly thought it was a troll it's so basic.

File: mariça quiriçami.png (360KB, 1200x1600px) Image search: [Google]

360KB, 1200x1600px

>>2771932
No offense but you're an illiterate parrot and I didn't ask for feedback on my skills - they are irrelevant to the point of the discussion (which you have completely disregarded).

There are heaps of artists worse than me doing fine, and I'm proportionally less popular nowadays than I was back then. Is that too complex to go through your honest skull?

>>2771167
>>2771176
Thanks for the thoughtful reply, by the way. At this point I believe the only way to recover that small spotlight would be to produce a sheer amount of drawings and bruteforcing visibility. But getting good is an easier task, of course.

Would you say overall competition is still the same in terms of skill/quality, just the system is rigged differently? Or would you say the bar has really been raised?

>>2771070
Because the chances of success are really slim and require great skills in socialising and marketing. It's something you do on the side.
You can shift your focus to figure drawing though, it gives you the required skills for good stylized work and opens up some other opportunities.

Drawing anime girls is fine, your question just reads like an excuse to not draw other stuff. If you get into classic illustration you'll just have the better options. Even pin-up is pretty niche these days. If you only want to draw characters you could at least go into the design direction.

But if anime girls are the only thing you enjoy drawing, stick with it and let no one tell you otherwise. I just wouldn't bet on making it a carreer, have a backup. (Doesn't have to be art related)

>>2771963
Your skills are always relevant. You're making a fool of yourself with this kind of overreaction.

File: ef.jpg (20KB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 500x500px

>>2771963
>This unbelievable amount of salt
You're never gonna make it

File: 01 55tab.png (506KB, 1200x1600px)

506KB, 1200x1600px

>>2771986
>>2771990
I still don't see you tackling the subject, just yapping the same gitgud shit we see on every thread as if it wasn't common knowledge enough, having some sort of epic win because I'm le butthurt.

If you think I'm even a wee bit ashamed of how much I suck, you are in for some wild one-sided banter.

But feel free to answer all the questions I've brought to the table once you're done having that much fun.

>>2772013
Post artists who you think are similar that you're competing with for views on a monthly basis.

>>2772013
>because I'm le butthurt
except you are

Someone told you that you should not be worrying about popularity yet because you need to improve your basics. This is a legitimate train of thought since all the marketing / networking shit comes after you have built a decent portfolio of skills.

>>2772013
I'm going to venture a guess that you have no views these days because there are actual decent artists around now and plenty of them. Your art is very much beginner tier. Like someone just made a deviantart account and posted their middleschool anime doodles with no studying the basics tier. You get no views these days because your art is literally shit.

File: 25 - bailey jay.png (527KB, 1200x1600px)

527KB, 1200x1600px

>>2772021
I'm not posting more ammo for you to comfortably talk shit from your seat.

>>2772022
>>2772023
What you twats don't seem to comprehend is the fact that I have ALWAYS sucked - but my suckiness wasn't a problem on getting views before. And that my question is about the overall scenario of dA - or whatever social networks are cool these days -, NOT my personal scenario.

A few other anons seem to agree that has indeed been a shift in the tide, so luckily I'm not just talking to the walls (you) here.

>>2771782
>>2771788
>>2771963
>>2772013
Textbook example of someone who has 0 self-awareness. I think 100 followers in a year is pretty good for someone with your skill anon.

File: 04.png (283KB, 1000x1000px)

283KB, 1000x1000px

>>2772023
But yeah, seems you at least brushed on what I asked: so you believe quality has been higher nowadays? Why?

>>2772027
>absolute numbers
Never stop sharing your gifted mind with us.

File: 1470098297798.png (1MB, 1200x1600px)

1MB, 1200x1600px

>>2772013
Get better before you worry about popularity. Shit like this isn't impressive.

File: latest.jpg (43KB, 733x450px)

43KB, 733x450px

>>2772030
Quality is more accurately represented with the sheer number of art and animation students and graduates in the illustration and graphic design industries posting online. You aren't being viewed by doodlers, autismals and literal children anymore. The people posting, liking, and sharing have standards. How this isn't obvious to you is obvious to me.

File: 1480767942410.png (2MB, 1268x870px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1268x870px

>>2772033
Your problem is assuming I care about popularity.
I'm in the same situation as >>2771450 , and am just discussing the meta-game at this point.

Looking past your own ambitions and not assuming everyone wants the same end-game is the key here.

But I'm glad you're digging through the archives instead of digesting simple information for a bit. Looks like I've got a new fan!

>>2770954
>being this sheltered from reality

>>2772039
You're not in the same situation as that anon. I have an idea of who he is and his stuff is really good. His problem is a style that doesn't pop against the competition when scrolling on a phone. Yours is that it looks like shit.

Who is your audience? What else do they look at and like? You can't metagame the system if you don't even know the game in the first place.

>>2772039
>am just discussing the meta-game at this point.

That's like a baby discussing his future football career. That's what you're not understanding. You are not anywhere near a level where you should be discussing popularity, meta-game, end-game, patreon, money, or anything other than learn the basics mate.

File: wolverine.png (642KB, 1200x1600px)

642KB, 1200x1600px

>>2772045
>his stuff is really good
See? You can't see past fixed metrics. It's depressing.

If you want to talk absolute metrics, I'm actually faring similarly than him in numbers of followers - which brings us back to the point: his art is superior, but he gets no visibility. Why?

And my art gets less attention than it used to. Why?

>>2772050
Except I already have a local "career" at my neighborhood, where I used to casually play for fun, but nowadays nobody comes to play anymore.
And when I ask the old folks that keep yelling at squirrels on the park (that's you!) why isn't fresh blood coming to play anymore, they say it's because I am not a professional league champion and I wouldn't even get a trophy at the state competition.

If asked why we can't see the stars at night anymore, /ic/ would say:
"You are just too dumb to become an astronaut and get in a rocket to look at them directly from above!"

>>2772050
You don't need to be on any level to take part in a discussion. A discussion is about the arguments, not the people argumenting, why can't /ic/ understand this simple thing?
Posting your art is irrelevant in objective discussions.

>>2772056
Your art gets less attention because you're an ambitionless slob. You either regard art important enough to work on it or you stop caring about reputation. If you want something in return, you don't just "play for fun".

Seems to me like you're excusing your lack of skill by playing it down with
>chill out, it's just a hobby, bro

>>2772063
>>Seems to me like you're excusing your lack of skill by playing it down with
>>chill out, it's just a hobby, bro

That's exactly what he has said.
>how do I make my shit more popular?
>Acktshulajulaay, I don't want to be popular

>>2772064
Then why would he care in first place?
Not saying he shouldn't talk about it, just curious why he would be interestedin something that's not affecting him in the slightest. Seems like a waste of time.

File: montante.png (252KB, 2817x1200px)

252KB, 2817x1200px

>>2772064
>how do I make my shit more popular?
Feel free to quote any post where I expressed a desire to rack up my views.

>>2772063
So you're saying I wasn't an ambitionless slob back then?

>>2772067
You don't need to be on any level to take part in a discussion. A discussion is about the arguments, not the people argumenting.

>>2772056
>Why?
Why not posit a solution to your own questions. The answer is obvious to the average person.

>>2772072
>The answer is obvious to the average person
I wouldn't have asked if it was obvious for me.

Also are you seriously expecting an average person to browse this board? Fucking normies.

File: Golden.gif (1MB, 500x287px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 500x287px

>>2771782
>>2772026
>>2772030
>>2772033
>>2772039
>>2771963
>>2772013
>>2772056

Thank you, Master.

>>2772078
Take an educated guess.

>>2771963
The bar has definitely been raised simply because there's way more people posting art, especially since you have these big name artists making bank, bringing in a lot of fresh blood.

To be honest with your current skill level you're going to have a hard time getting followers. Also your work is lacking that 'finish' that is popular in dA. You can have shit fundamentals but if you know how to finish a work you'll get normies to follow you. A decent amount of mediocre artists have a good following simply because they know how to get that wow factor to cover up their shitty fundamentals.

Unfinished work is unappealing unless you're really good.

I suggest just getting better but also doing little things to make yourself more visible on online mediums. Consistency is a big factor too, if you only put out work once in a while nobody will be interested in following you, but if you consistently put out new stuff and there's noticeable improvement you'll have higher retention rate.

File: Bait (1).jpg (90KB, 739x742px)

90KB, 739x742px

>>2771788
>>2772079

Do you notice how both of these posts have fishing hooks in them.