>age 17 >started drawing in 2014 >says she didn�

>>2761120
16 hours is a meme, 3 hours of observational drawing a day is plenty to git gud, not sure what's so surprising about someone working hard and seeing results

>>2761120
the question is how many of those 16 hours are EFFECTIVE hours.

if you are this uber good for you. but most normies get diminishing returns after 6 hours of quality learnings

>>2761120
Unlike /ic/ she actually puts in the time to draw which is more important than numbers.

>>2761120
anyone has the ref ? I wanna try it, love the colors.

>>2761124
>>2761127
yeah I know 16 hours is a meme and nothing weird about getting results for working hard, but it what seems crazy to me is that she started as absolute beginner 2 years ago and she got to this level without even studying books like loomis etc, literally just by copying people.

>people still don't realize loomis is a meme
Real talk, /ic/ is stuck up on loomis, gesture, construction, etc. because they are autists who need drawing to be presented in bullet point instructions like a fucking cooking recipe because their autistic mind can't wrap around it otherwise.

People here are incapable of filling in the blanks.

>>2761135
some ppl are natural. Others have to work harder in given field. Nothing suprising

>>2761135
You sound like you think that Loomis is required or something. You do realize that all the old masters got good by studying from life, and they accomplished all their work decades or centuries before a mediocre illustrator's instructional book.

>>2761135
My sister is a stellar artist and learned the exact same way. No books, no instructions, no guides, just copying what she sees and heavy use of reference.

It's very possible to learn by using your powers of observation alone. The thing you have to keep in mind is that everyone learns differently and some people also learn quicker and know how to hone into their strengths. There is no one way to study, it depends on how you absorb information and what you need help on and what you plan on doing. Part of studying smart, is knowing how you learn best.

>>2761135
Drawing is all about seeing. People here just get caught up in the technical details.

>>2761134
https://imgur.com/a/eC2QZ

>>2761155
eh

>>2761159
you're right i suppose.

>>2761164
>>2761165
alright, may i ask if there is anything i can do to 'learn to see' other than just trying as hard as i can to copy reference? i already read DotRSotB but i still have problems with getting the proportions right and with hand eye coordination (in the sense that it's hard to draw exactly what i see if i'm not looking at the paper)

>>2761120
Your eyes, your hand coordination and your medium. :)
Practice your eyes to observe. and then hand coordination, lastly get a good medium.

>>2761189
>>2761189
>https://imgur.com/a/eC2QZ

Whoops, wrong link, same person. https://imgur.com/a/tGmma there.

>>2761191
Learn to see 2d shapes and replicate them accurately. Observe the angles and proportions, observe the values.

Then start seeing and understanding it in 3d, and start learning to construct things.

>she
its a dude

>>2761191

>alright, may i ask if there is anything i can do to 'learn to see' other than just trying as hard as i can to copy reference?

Excellent question. "DotRSotB" should have helped you, check out "Keys to Drawing" by Dodson if you also can (mainly good for lots of nice exercises).

BUT what people did to develop their observational drawing is sight-size method and doing Bargue plates. If you will do Bargue plates and casts you will get better.

https://www.sightsize.com/about/

People also use tools to help them with seeing stuff. Mark Carder is a realist painter (painted George W. Bush among others) and he heavily relies on tools: he sets up blackbox in his studio with proper lighting, but also have color checker to pick proper colors, yardstick and proportional divider.

All those things help and after you have grown as an artist, you can ditch those.

>>2761236
>http://vetyr.tumblr.com/faq
Literally in the OP post you just had to follow the link and Vetyr says she's a girl.

Not unusual.

Some people work hard and diligently and do the work right and make great stuff.

Some people make the "right" moves and learn the in's and out's and even work hard as fuck but will never be able to produce work on the level of a natural.

Some people just can't draw. Some people can.

But both have to work hard and smart to find out. Most important part about doing anything is you have to actually do it as close to 100% every time and learn from your mistakes.

>>2761240
I'm not sure if you're the same anon that has been recommending Bargue so much lately, but in my opinion this is a bit dangerous. I don't think Bargue plates and sight size develop artists in an appropriate way for what most people on this board want (which usually is a more illustration, entertainment design, or animation focus).

Honestly if anyone is thinking of doing sight size I suggest they read this essay: http://mrartroom.weebly.com/uploads/2/9/5/4/29546293/concerning_the_sight-size_method_.pdf

Also maybe a bit of a personal taste thing, but I don't think Carder is really the best appeal to authority. His work is really stiff and dead and an example of how modern realist art often falls short.

>>2761120
This is disgusting. I just saw her blog.
I've been drawing since the age of 10 + have studied art non-stop for 3 years and I'm not even capable to produce a work of this quality. I'm 25.

>>2761250
>that jealously
Not gonna make it

>>2761249

No, I'm the other anon. Thanks though for article, will dig in.

I put Carder as an example because he put his process there on the net and it can serve as reminder that artists use tools and that's not a crime. (I personally was never into realist painting, I tend more towards pre-raphaelite and symbolism for figurative)

>>2761250

I had a girl in my early 20's that was better at 14 than I am now. I am in my 30's.

Some people are just savants.

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kek

>person puts in about 2000 hours into a skill
>becomes intermediately competent
>this is surprising
???

>>2761257
What about it?

>>2761120
>says she didn't study loomis or anything
you realize that all stuff like loomis does is give you the shortcuts and patterns they noticed after thousands of hours of work right? so yeah someone could learn on their own with no loomis or anything and arrive at around the same patterns/rules/etc, just usually taking longer.

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>people are blowing their load over photo studies

She's exactly where someone should be 2 years deep of diligent work. If you work hard and have a good iq you will hit this level in 2 years

>>2761262
>>2761257

dat muscle butt

>>2761269

She/he is way above average for 2 years of diligent work. If you went out into the real world you would know that.

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This was in december of last year, so she got gud pretty quick.

>>2761240
thanks i am looking more into this as it's pretty much my priority right now.

>>2761265
yes i know but what seemed crazy to me is that she 'figured it out' in 2 years. and if you go in the first pages of her tumblr you can see she wasn't trash a year ago either. that's what surprised me
then again maybe it's just me and >>2761250 or maybe it's true some people are born with a natural talent. i just dont fucking know all i know is getting good at art is the wildest ride of emotions

>>2761272
hey man it's a nice ass.

This girl is gifted, that's all. I always thought that everyone could draw well with work but, the more I work the more I feel I was wrong.

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>>2761274
If by that you mean "She's way better than me despite the fact I've spent more than 2 years on this" sure.

But I don't get why you think this is massively impressive for 2 years. She has a very strong understanding of how to make lighting look nice and how to make colors pop in a study, but those are her only real skills of note.

I'm not trying to denigrate her, I'm just pointing out that this is exactly what someone should expect from 2 years of focused effort assuming a high iq.

>>2761278

Ofcourse she has talent. To deny that would be silly when you see the evidence of how fast people typically progress. Look up the public sketchbooksfor people who are good, 2 years for a similar level is not typical for even the guys that draw a ton.

>>2761281
>mfw I'm probably at least moderately talented
>mfw I'm a lazy piece of shit so I only am an average level pro instead of a top level pro

>>2761284
Find me an example.

>>2761283
>this is exactly what someone should expect from 2 years of focused effort assuming a high iq.

What exactly are you using as the foundation you're basing this expectation on?

Can you provide other intelligent, focused artists who have done as you say? How many? How many does it require for it to no longer be exceptional?

>>2761283

Yet by all available evidence points to her progress being much faster than typical. I've been hanging with some really high level guys, been to several art schools and seen a lot of people's progress. This isn't typical. Does that mean that I consider her some kind of prodigy? Nah, I don't. Everyone can reach her level with hard work. Not every can do it in 2 years though, no matter how hard they try.

>>2761269

what is a good iq ? working hard for 3 years and not at this level at all.

>>2761285
>implying we're not all talented

>>2761120
books are useless if you dont do a massive amount of studies on the side, i've been progressing much faster lately by just grinding studies rather than going through books, once you grasp the concept you need to apply it many times by yourself to really get it

>>2761291
Not everyone is talented. It's an ugly truth, but it is a truth. That said, talent is generally overvalued.

>>2761290
>working hard for 3 years
$50 bucks says you barely put any effort into it.

Or you might just not be the sharpest crayon in the lighthouse, but it's probably the first one either way.

>>2761300
>/ic/ is the 1% that's shit

>>2761289
What is it you are even thinking of as "her level?" Because ALL SHE IS GOOD AT is lighting in photo studies, primarily portraits. If you just do one 3 hour photo study every day for 2 years you will get this good.

It's absolute normie bait, again not saying it's bad, just that thinking it's massively disproportionate skill growth is silly.

Keep in mind this 2 years of focused study on an already existing background of fucking around drawing people casually.

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>mfw /ic/ is putting an average artist on a pedestal because they don't realise how shit they all are
>they are all arguing between themselves how this is possible
>they're all exposing themselves

she's certainly good for her age, and in /ic/'s 1%, but damn a bunch of muddy colorful studies and everybody loses their shit.

>>2761300
don't get me wrong my point was not to show she has god tier skills and i don't care about her age at all. but see >>2761275 that result in 1 year without any books or a guide? 2/3 hours every day on average?

>>2761306
>muddy colorful

>>2761306

She is not average for her age.

>>2761275
PURE IDEOLOGY

This is like Miles Johnston all over again. Get back to drawing you little gremlins.

>>2761312
>she's certainly good for her age

>>2761312
That anon never said that. They literally said she's good for her age, but overall she's still an average artist once you take her age out of the equation.

>>2761316
>average artist
What is this scale that you're talking of?

>>2761317
The scale of people who have been studying in an intelligent manner for a couple years and actually putting in some work.

Drawing is *it*. Not watching design cinema, not painting spaceships, not anything. Drawing (and from life I should add). You do that, you get good.

>>2761317
Average as in you don't look at her art and lose your shit unless you staple her age to it

>>2761316

You're telling me if you took the sum of all artists who have been drawing for 2 years she'd be around the middle of the pack?
I'd love to see above average.

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>>2761317
Russian art gulag scale.

>>2761320
F-feng?

>>2761322
You don't count as an artist if you're utter shit

>>2761323
Russian academies are not really a fair way to judge something. To even get into one you need a fair bit of drawing experience. Many students attend art high schools and then a sort of drawing pre-college thing for another couple years. Some take a few attempts to even get past the entrance exams, which are done once a year. So a second year artist might have received like up to 8 years of art education already.

>>2761325
Basically this. Discounting hobbyists and people who aren't really trying, you are left with the serious people who are trying to go pro and actually are learning on their own. Out of these people, most can go pretty far in a few years.

>>2761322
There is only black and white in /ic/, dude. Don't even take posts about average shit seriously.

>>2761330

>Out of these people, most can go pretty far in a few years.

I've still not seen any of her naysayers provide counter-evidence to prove she's nothing special. It's 100% unsubstantiated assertions without any evidence.

>>2761337
You see this is why you will never get gud. Your brain doesn't understand intuition. You demand fucking evidence for assertions that can only be substantiated either way by cherry picked examples.I show you some deviant art progress image of someone moving this fast and you show me the opposite? Is that the stupid fucking game you want to play?

>>2761330
>>2761330
>To even get into one you need a fair bit of drawing experience
Nah, it's not very true. A lot of anons from drawthread and anime thread can enter. It's mostly about money. If you wanan free educatino you need to be very good. And some colleges can give you great skills without any institutes

>Reference painting

That's nice and all, but she's screwed the moment she tries to do anything remotely creative she can't get a reference for.

Which is most of the average artist's work. What she does is fine if you're doing for fun, but without fundamentals, ask her to draw anything remotely intricate and she will give you shit.

She's done the same thing over and over and got pretty good at it. There's nothing surprising or particularly 'gifted' there.

>>2761340
Anons from drawthread and anime thread have years of experience under them though.

>>2761337
The muscle thing someone posted earlier in the thread is pretty good evidence that she's lacking fundamentals. Anatomy all over the place.

>>2761344
>studying from reference and can't be creative meme

>>2761348
Her creative work is either simple generic character design, nudes, or faces which all have a very similar structure. I think she's quite good, but her creative work is obviously much weaker than her referenced stuff, as is the case with most people.

If she spent some time on design or illustration she could probably start getting some work within a year or so.

>>2761120
Most of that are photo studies bro

I know a guy who was illustrating for Wizards, Applibot and many other well know companies.

And the interesting thing is when i asked him (few times) what books did he studied from, he always said he mostly learned from life, photos and master paintings.

And i swear to God this guy is pretty close to Jaime Jones level. He is insanely good with digital illustration and he is insanely good with pencil and paper. He started with pencil and paper when he was young and switched to digital when Sijun forums became popular.

What i'm trying to say here is that he became (it took him at least 6 years of serious work with pencil and paper and aditional 2 years to get used to digital) what 99% of /ic won't become in life time just by (as he claimes) studying from pictures, masterpaintings and nature.

NOTE: i am talking about STUDYING, ANALYZING, and NOT copying what you see, but UNDERSTANDING it.

That's not what this chick does, though. These are literally all just photo studies.

My photo studies are better.

>>2761354

i have to add here that his imagination and will power has no limits.
He is one of those people (like most successful illustrators) who almost live in their own world. And that is what /ic should have. That is what naturally powers you and gives you motivation to keep going.

You still strugle, you still study and work hard, but there is a reason. And that reason is to convey on paper/canvas/PS what is in your head.

If you only fill up your head with tons of studies and few forced illustrations from imagination, which are based on what is popular today, you can't expect to, as you guys say very well, ever make it.

>>2761354
>he became what 99% of /ic won't become in life time
Mediocre? Average? What are you trying to say here?

>>2761365

If illustrating for companies like Applibot and Wizards is mediocre or average, then fine.
I assume that 50k €/year is average too, for you.

>>2761369
Wizards artists are prety shitty. They don't even know anatomy

>>2761369
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>joke

>your head

>>2761369

He was calling /ic/ shit, not your friend.

So how do you draw from life?

You just look at pictures and things and draw?

Without breaking it down in a billion diagrams?

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>>2761339
>You see this is why you will never get gud. Your brain doesn't understand intuition.

>IT'S ALL ABOUT HOW I FEEEEEEL!
>MY FEELINGS ARE IMPORTANT!
>I CAN PRESENT THEM AS FACT AND CRITICIZE THOSE WHO DON'T TAKE MY UNSUBSTANTIATED "INTUITION" AS GOSPEL!

I'm literally asking you to provide one or two examples of self taught artists who have done better in a similar timeframe and you're moaning about people asking you to prove your assertions, it's pathetic.

>>2761382
Wew lad let me just break out the study of average progress per hour spent drawing.

>>2761354
>i swear to God this guy is pretty close to Jaime Jones level
Who? This is a pretty big claim, and given your description this person is probably famous. The only one that sort of comes to mind would be a guy like Wes, but he wasn't posting on Sijun from what I recall.

>>2761382
Not that anon, but i think 4xis0 who is also from ic improved as much or more in a year too, but he's too fixated on line art and anatomy. Its just hard and effective work that gives results.

>>2761120
Oh look let me expand the image, yup another piece of shit work!!! Anyone can make blurred out botched out crap

>>2761381
Pretty much, just use your eyeballs to measure things and draw it. That's it. No need for grids or diagrams.

Do it irl though, go to a park and draw a tree you like or something.

>>2761398
I know it sounds stupid but I have such a block when it comes to drawing from like, gives me a strange feeling of anxiety

>>2761395
>4xis0
who? their work doesn't show up in google

>>2761400
It's not stupid, I was the same until I took a life drawing class years ago. You never know until you try it, practice when nobody's there so you don't have performance anxiety on top of the regular anxiety. Once you do it a few times it's not scary anymore.

>>2761413
will do, thanks pal.

>>2761400

Same. In fact, I take failing at drawing from life way harder than anything else.

I can copy from a photo okay (relatively) but my life drawing is terrible. Just fucking horrific.

So I'm doing Keys and just... I guess dumping hours and hours into this nonsense.

>>2761424
it's funny how a creative exercise brings out our deepest insecurities, isn't it?

>>2761382
Most people don't post their early stuff online anymore in a documented way, so it is hard to say exactly. It used to be obvious on the conceptart.org forums though, you could watch as people grew (or didn't), but now those images are gone.

In terms of famous people who had faster growth than Vetyr: Algenpfleger, Min Yum, Jaime Jones, Whit Brachna, Dave Rapoza, Even Amundsen etc.

They're all top tier, sure, but that's why they are memorable. Other people improved quickly and plateaued, so you forget about them. The main thing Vetyr has on most people is her age, she could be a very solid pro by age 20 if she keeps improving and doesn't fall into a comfort zone.

>>2761434

The trouble is it's hard to make an argument that someone's "average" when the only people anyone can cite who did better than her are renowned professional artists. Then again /ic/ has this retarded philosophy that anyone who isn't in the top 0.5% is shit.

Most people in this thread are essentially saying "I assume there are such a substantial number of people at her skill level that she's average but I have no idea who but they're probably out there" (see >>2761390 >>2761339) and basing an argument on the assumption there's evidence you're not aware of out there somewhere is a pretty poor way to make a point.

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>>2761120
>>2761200
hey i'm not calling her a hack but isnt it weird that the ref image and her drawing perfectly match ? like they just the same size and all ha ha it's weird no ? look at how they overlay eachover perfectly ha ha i didnt resize shit
OH WOW MAYEB DOES SHE TRACE ??? ?§§!!!??? WHO WOULDHEVE TOHGHTHTGTT ???????? ???

>>2761458
tep kek they dont even match

>>2761454
She's obviously not an average artist, people are probably using that term not in the sense of a true average but more in terms of her not being mindblowingly good or anything. To be honest she's doing better than guys like Miles were at her age, and he was always touted as being this young star. Granted there are way more resources available now than then and art/digital art has become more mainstream, so it's slightly more expected that people start popping up with higher skills at younger ages.

That said, what she does now is basically irrelevant, the important thing is what she'll be doing in 2 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years. It's not all that unusual to have someone improve quickly and then plateau, or to get cocky for being a bit ahead of the curve and then get in a comfort zone and stop growing. I've seen numerous people who are "the next big thing" that never go anywhere.

>>2761458
Shittiest troll/joke attempt I've seen in a long time, 1/10

>>2761460
>>2761461
>how can u say it match nose and lips r biggr xd kys u retard
esthetic tweaks ?

>>2761458
>OH WOW MAYEB DOES SHE TRACE ??? ?§§!!!??? WHO WOULDHEVE TOHGHTHTGTT ???????? ???

Would you fucking settle down and talk like a human instead of an ape that's been given a keyboard?

>>2761474
>/ic/ was full of apes all long
No wonder you all suck

>people caring
Le lel

>>2761479
Being scared of other people's success is real for those who are inferior.

>>2761454
>Then again /ic/ has this retarded philosophy that anyone who isn't in the top 0.5% is shit.
/ic/ commonly shits on everything, but it's not a hivemind. We have relatively few posters and a lot of vocal idiots. Most of the time I ignore threads like this.

Regarding >>2761120 , being able to copy photos like that after a couple years of practice isn't all that impressive. She says she just draws for fun and hasn't tried a formal academic approach, so good for her if she likes what she's making.

Her random smudges with a soft brush are really triggering for me though. What the hell is the point of the two massive smudges coming off of her jaw in the OPs pic? You can see them in the thumbnail even. On top of that it seems like she only renders by making blotchy strokes with soft brushes. She needs to work on her edges.

>>2761135
I don't understand what all the mystery is. She's spending multiple hours a day looking at people and drawing them. That's exactly what you're supposed to be doing to git gud. Books are just a guide anon

>>2761467
if something is traced it will match EXACTLY, here there's not a single fucking line that matches, if you think it's traced your eye is garbage and you need to go do some sight size or something

>>2761120

is that art supposed to be impressive?

>>2761120

She's good for her age , I discovered her yesterday. Great motivation

Anyway this whole board is some kind of joke. No matter what people find something negative to say... Even if a master was here he'd be trashed by people trying to find technical faults in their drawings ... those same guys don't even know how to draw in the first place ... pathetic

Learn to appreciate art no matter how it looks like ffs

>>2761568
>Learn to appreciate art
Is there a book for that?

>>2761120
When will people learn that copying photos is not that impressive? I thought this board was for people that do art, not plebs on facebook. She's pretty good at what she does, but again, it really isn't anything remarkable.

>>2761573
It's not that impressive to what you're thinking of, but it's impressive to what a beginner can spew out. You're looking at it the wrong way.

>>2761575
>it's impressive to what a beginner can spew out
anything remotely competent is impressive to a beginner though

>>2761568

stop projecting you fucktard

>>2761575
2 years of drawing is not exactly beginner level. That stuff looks about right for 2 years of steady practice.

>>2761576
Exactly.

>>2761402
4xiszero.tumblr.com

>>2761120
>those god awful, tacky arbitrary smudge attempts
This is honestly the worst digital art meme of all time. Even worse than chromatic abberation. At least that you can do it ironically and have a laugh at how bad it is but the people who use smudge this way have no fucking taste and think they do.

>>2761598
>last post 6 months ago
Wtf ? Doesn't he sometimes post here ?

>>2761611
Agreed. Its like anime levels of blind copying, but with digital painting.

>>2761120
>http://vetyr.tumblr.com/faq
Fucking yes, im better than her. Finally, these last couple of years have been kind to me
But im 24, its amazing that she can do this at 17. Most of her stuff is copied from refs tho. (not that its a bad thing but its not always indicative of how good she is). Bravo anyways

>>2761616
Post your work

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>>2761617
My inspiros are myself, sakimichan and kron desu

>>2761275
Loool she painted slavoj zizek

It's not fucking fair. Back then, say 2005-2009ish stretching it, there was barely anything for ME to get good but fucking Loomis everywher you go online LOOMIS fuckshit and now 17 year old today have all the resources it's not fucking fair I could have been this girl

>>2761626
Back then, artist were also much more discriminated against. It's different today with patreon, tumblr, facebook and twitter.

>>2761275
*rubs nose*
*sniffs*
*tugs shirt*

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>>2761120
fuck

wtf? its just closely following reference. these are studies. all you need is good observational skill and patience to do that. this work is the digital equivalent traditional pencil/ballpoint/whatever portraits of celebrities that popular instagram copy machines do. i applaud the effort, but it's not very creative for entertainment design. perhaps acceptable for fine art, if the paintings were done in oils or other traditional media. also, the extra blue backlight suggests that the understanding of light on topography is rather limited, especially as the length of the nose protruding out from the cranium is left unilluminated

Why are you listening to /ic/ anyway? It is a den of alt-right retards circle jerking to pleb level realism.

Just do what this chick does and draw your heart out.

>drawing from 1 to 5 hours every day, usually 2-3,
it's still way more than most people on /ic/, and probably enough

>>2761640
>and probably enough
Key word here being "probably"
You don't even know, so how would /ic/ know you're right?

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>>2761434
algen wasn't particularly fast, he also fucked his wrists drawing so much. took him 4 years from this to pro.

>>2761626
meh i was on conceptart.org back in 2005 at 17. Didn't stick.

>>2761648
and to add to this "While i always did a bit of sketching in and for school, the common stuff like doodling on your books, and a bit of manga-style crap, it wasn't until July of 2007 that I started taking art seriously".
So that is 6 months in. Pretty typical.

>>2761135
are retarded or something

>>2761191
'eh'? It's either that or she works harder than you. Also about the proportions and angles; use your pencil to 'catch' right distances and directions. Gotta be the oldest trick in the book, im always using it

>>2761398
so just to be sure, i don't construct the thing or anything? i just put the lines down trying to get the proportions right?

very impressive, my only criticism is that i'd like to see her paint more from life. there's a lot going on with skin that photos don't capture so it really comes across when someone has learned color primarily from photostudies. it's nice to see there are people still coming here who actually try.

>>2761120
You do realize that the level of the kids of this generation will greatly outclass all of you 25+, that's the way it is and always have been. Accept it and get to work instead of complaining over the fact that someone younger than you has worked harder or have had access to more lectures and books.
In reality it's all about the time you put into it, no book or lecture will make you good, put in the fucking work and draw what you like drawing.

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>>2761257
Let's go college boy!

>>2761697
>You do realize that the level of the kids of this generation will greatly outclass all of you 25+, that's the way it is and always have been

Really? I can't think of a single current 25+ year old illustrator who greatly outclasses the likes of Frazetta, Loomis, Rockwell, Leyendecker and co. Seems to me that with maybe a handful of exceptions, the new generation usually does one step backwards instead of forward.

>>2761741
Dont take the baiterino of random neckbeards on 4chins. Most of the people here cant draw so listening to anything that they have to say on the subject is irrelevant. And usually false.

>>2761257
Whats wrong with a study you faggot. Thats why youll never make it. Cause you cant draw, and you dont lift. Stay mirin manlet

>>2761120
Ughhhhhhhhh guys this shit is easy when you just copy from photo reference

The hard part is drawing from imagination
When you understand this you will stop being jealous

>>2761763
its not that easy. If it is, post your work.
Its definitely easier than imagination work tho.
But the way you put it is like every random person can shit out a painting like this.

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>>2761766
>But the way you put it is like every random person can shit out a painting like this

Completely your interpretation

Pic related took literally 20 minutes, based on what ive read on her blog, the OP pic took a few hours

>>2761741
>including Loomis unironically in a list of genuinely good artists

>>2761767
It looks pretty bad though, you can't just use the time as an excuse. Post something that you spent a couple hours on for a fair comparison.

>>2761785
>you cant use time as an excuse
oh right, a 3 month Ruan Jia can be just as good as a 2 minute pencil drawing

>It looks bad though
please, its comparable to OP dont be silly.

I'm not here to argue with you. Gonna go practice, i suggest you do the same.

>>2761785
i wouldnt call it bad exactly. be fair at least

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>>2761693
I'd do construction if you're comfortable with that so you can gain confidence and then try out just putting down the lines and see how you do with that one. Like do a few gesture drawings for warm up and then do the real thing from another angle. Maybe take a lot of time with both methods to see what you struggle with the most?

If I'm wrong I'm sorry.

>>2761767

You're really proud of that portrait, I've seen it several times.

Seriusly, stop posting it fag

>do something
>do it a lot
>start getting better at it

holy shit what a surprise

I want all the references

>>2761841

Not that anon, but most of it looks good in thumbnail especially, but if you start looking close the construction is rather wonky at places. She is by no means bad. But yea, she put in hours of work, so she is getting good at it. What all anons should be doing. And keep on staying critical of your own work.

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>>2761565
>if something is traced it will match EXACTLY
uuh no it does not ? have u ever traced anything in ur life ? plus this is a 1-2 hours painting not fucking outlines sooo theres obviously an esthetic direction in it... its not just studies even tho she calls them that
well anyway, why r yall arguing if shes good or not ? if shes real shes obviously the second coming of moses but hey i dont believe she is, and i'm surprised no one s teaming with me...

what yall seem to miss in my attempt at calling her a hack is that im not mostly talking about the contours of the object but its size... i mean, pic related is what she tells is her process to do studies, what r the fucking odds that her painting and the ref merges so perfectly ? they arent even done on a same sized canvas ? i'm talking about the general size and form of the subject, u dont have to resize shit, this is the key, why would her painting and the ref be the exact same fucking size, just take them both from their sources and watch how obvious it is that she just put the ref on another layer and painted over it god....

>>2761565
Stop whiteknighting, it's obviously traced

>>2761907
>uuh no it does not ? have u ever traced anything in ur life ?
You write like an illiterate child. Why don't you show her refs are the same size as her paintings and shut the hell up?

>only draws people

I'm sorry but that's never impressive to me, if you draw a face everyday for 2 years then it's no surprise you get good at it.

Itt: jelly as fuck fags that will never make it

>>2761927
>those drawings
>making it

They're good but if that's making it for you then you must have low standards as an artist, imo.

>>2761911
>calling people out over how they write on the internet
Why don't you shup the hell up ?

>>2761907
>>2761458
>2017
>bait still works
lmao

>>2761932

Well, yeah. Do you see how many people can't do it? The bar is set real fucking low.

>>2761918
>Is implying drawing people is not the most complex of art forms.
TOPOKOKOKOKO

>>2761767
Its definitely not horrible when it comes to beginners, but your values are cancer compared to her, your brushstrokes are shit, you dont really understand the volumes of the face, line quality is trash tier. You are just not good enough yet to notice the difference in her work and yours. Also dont bullshit me, that didnt take you 20 minutes otherwise you wouldnt have such a shitty ass drawing, but would have a nicely laid out structure not a copy.

You fucking retards dont understand what makes a copy and what makes a painting.

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>>2761458
I don't believe tracing is really relevant, but now I'm upset people can't hit that from imagination after 2 years. I thought she used a different ref, internalized the forms, and rotated it.

Observational drawing from a picture is incredibly easy.

I never even do it, and aside from some screwy proportions due to a rushed lay-in, it came-out alright after I watched a couple of control paint videos. I'm pretty sure you could get photo-realism at any skill level once you have an ok eye for value/gradient variation.

I will always have more respect for good artists that draw from imagination that supplement their work with references. That's truly hard, and it deserves a good deal of respect.

>>2762013
copying photos 1:1 is pretty lame if you're a digital artist

>>2762013
hahahahahahahahaha

Fucking delusinal bunch of faggots the lot of you

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Doing hardcore photoref three quarter pose portrait bullshit where you do nothing but line up lines is easy modo. Even FiRez can do it.

Let me see some complex shit from imagination.

>>2762017
For me, it's only really good for studying values and learning how material works.

I'd rather learn more about drawing with my minds eye.

I think it really depends on what you want to do as an artist. Some people can take a reference and alter it incredibly by combining both their understanding of form and color, etc to make a great work of art.

>>2762024
I mean, it's a legit way to study if you're painting in a physical medium. In digital I just don't see the usefulness of it.

How do you even study like that? You just put the photo in another window and try to adjust your selected color to what you see? That's a pointless grind.

At some point you just gotta realize you're handicapping yourself and you should simply trace the photo and dropper-pick the values.

>>2762019
It's obviously not a finished picture.
There are certain areas that need to be darkened, etc. The hair is still at its base colors.

If I had spent an extra hour or two on the face, it'd be very close to the original despite my inexperience with digital rendering.

It's almost a thought-less process in comparison to imaginative drawing.

>>2761484
>check thread
>ppl still caring
Is a real dumb thing desu, f am.
Am just hope silent majority-tan is laffing at ppl liek this 2

>>2762031
It looks nothing like the picture you retard. You have no idea what the fuck you are doing.
JESUS CHRIST.

>>2762047
I compared angles and their relation to one another, but I didn't spend much time on it as previously stated.

That's why there are major proportional issues that ruin the likeness. The eyes aren't the correct space apart, etc.

>>2762013
"Observational drawing from a picture is incredibly easy"

Easy ? you're not even capable to do a E- work.. The proportions are fucked up and values are shit. You have to squint more and kill that huge ego.

>>2762060
Check your fucking ego for real, holy shit you sound autistic.

If its so fucking easy go ahead and do it. Spend a couple more hours on it and make it really good. If you can do it ill fucking apologize right then and there. AND i'll gift you a 60usd game on steam of your choice

>>2762083
I'll admit it.
You're really ticking me off.
I accept.

>>2762086
Good. Now you can improve.

>>2761767
>>2762013
Dunning Kruger at its finest. These are not even close to the level of the portrait in OP.

>>2762023
Firez does more than photo studies

>>2762088
Cool im waiting

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>>2762013
>>2761767
Not easy for you two, obviously. I sincerely hope you learn from this.

>>2762098
he's also bad

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>>2761458
You're full of shit tho

I like. Hope the person will not fall into kitsch by overusing cheap effects.

>>2762013
Not really appealing to be honest. Barely anything about her facial feature is right.

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>>2762013
Get off of ic,practice more, and talk less

>>2762372
>tfw in Valley of Despair

>>2761864
yeah i've noticed it too, it's weird

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>>2762332

I want to be this bad

>>2762490
Then just actually draw for a couple of weeks and you will be there.

>>2762086
So its the next day over here, and you still havent delivered. I guess either you didnt try it or you realised that it's not as easy as you keep saying, and you were talking out of your ass, without having any real experience. Much like most of /ic.

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>>2762497
Sure anon

>>2762514
How long you been drawing firez? You seem to be at an acceptable level that I want to be able to reach.

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>>2762514
Has the beginner thread issued an Amber alert or are you firez himself?

>>2761120
30 minutes a day of real work beats 8 hours a day of fidgeting and distracting yourself while pretending to work.

>>2761135
Books are useless, stop being an autist or you'll never be an artist.

>>2761243
Everyone can draw.
If you can't it's because you don't want to. Your hubris is heavier than your love for art and doesn't allow you to see your mistakes.

>>2762531
>tfw this is probably true

>>2761120
wait this isnt any special. Its all blurry studies, what is so special here?

>>2762539
What's special is that she was able to make the decision at such a young age.

>>2761288
Asian and russian kids get to this level in their first year of art school.
If she puts similar effort, getting to the same results in twice the time without the instruction is perfectly fine.

/ic/ dwellers can't fathom how easy it is for someone who actually draws, because we don't draw, we just complain and whine on a cambodian cave drawing carnival.

>>2762540
I'd say she got lucky more than anything, that she could draw at such young age

I got my first tablet at 18 when I had literally 0 knowledge of anything

>>2762554
>not being able to draw as kid
You live in a prison cell or something, anon? I know kids are taught art in elementary school forcefully, then after that you have to decide to do it yourself.

>>2762557
i had drawing in elementary school but it was all just "draw whatever you want kids i dont give a fuck" so literally nothing came from that. I'd say I am starting to learn drawing right now at 22

>>2762554
>I'd say she got lucky more than anything, that she could draw at such young age
This is going to happen more and more as there is a lot more information that is accessible online, and digital art has now become "cool" and mainstream instead of a weird niche hobby that almost no one has heard of.

>>2761741
Everyone outclasses Loomis, he made instruction manuals because he wasn't good enough to sell.
He was the Chris Hart of his generation, that he was actually good enough to teach future generations the correct way to draw speaks more of his peers than of himself.

>>2762565
I like that you differentiate between digital art, because the alternative is generally fine art which is what is weird and niche.

>>2762562
The age gap between me and you is crazy small, although I guess we just had different experiences. Video games and anime/manga were what I had back then so I already had an incentive to draw, but I never really put in the time to improve since "talent" meme.

>>2762557
Lots of parents actually forbid the hobby.

Calling for bullshit.... 16 hours a day if you dont use any of the books. The books are a shorcut. A technical one. They save time and give the fundamentals. The rest is practice. Think if it as a full time hobby. But you also has to have a life to nurture your talent. 8 hours max rest and do something else

>>2762598
>16 hours
>Books
>Fundamentals
You were magic tendons and namedropping Ruan Jia for the loser artist bingo.

One hour a day of observational drawing will give you better results than 6 years of religious devotion to the fucking sticky judging by how many great artists have come out of /ic/ so far.

>>2762603
There where a couple of artists that may have started here, but no one here would admit that they are good.
People often switch their workplace after finishing their training, because they will for ever be known as the trainie.

>>2761907
>uuh no it does not ?
uuuh yes it does, thats the whole point of tracing retard, the fact that you act like measuring properly is impossible just shows how fucking shitty you are, go do some sight size so you can understand that copying is fucking easy and she isnt doing anything special

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Why dont any of you master painters ever post your work?

Its because you cant paint, and can only quote some random ass sources and books that youve browsed through. You dont know shit about painting and you never will unless you start actually practising the craft. So why don't you shut the fuck up on subjects you dont know shit about. You guys are like overweight trainers. You dont know anything besides untested theory.

>>2762628
Post your work.

>>2762628
>Why dont any of you master painters ever post your work?
Half are beginners parroting information, and half are good enough to have work that can back themselves up, but are smart enough to know that posting their (probably identifiable) work here will just open themselves to attack.

I think Vetyr is pretty impressive for her age. I could post work that would shut people up, but for what reason? It would either just be to stroke my ego or have people blindly call me shit regardless and have my work associated with bickering on 4chan. I'm also several years older than Vetyr so there's no point really. She's certainly better than I was at that age.

>>2762630
I DID you fucking retard.

>>2762633
If you're good enough you'd know that her work is not just copying senpai

>>2762633
Every artist worth a shit that comes here has posted their stuff in the self promotion thread.
There are no secret masters in /ic/. Only a handful of average to good artists, a couple really good semi-pros and a bunch of noobs.

People never post their work because they're shitposting.

>>2762636
>If you're good enough you'd know that her work is not just copying senpai
I never said it was. I think she's good.

>>2762638
Nah, some very skilled people don't post their stuff here and just come for the occasional conversation or laughs.

Any Ideas or tutorials on how to paint/blend like she does in photoshop?

>>2762654
literally just the round brush

XD

I check her tumblr every now and then. It's true she mostly does faces and studies. I'd like to see her do more complex, polished works. She has a lot of potential.

>>2762490
>>2762514
Do you actually think the first image is good? I've seen your stuff and you are pretty good but that image is not one of your good works.

>>2762707
popoopost your work or fuck off

Somebody once told me /ic/ is gonna roast me
Well I ain't the newest fag on the board
we were lookin kinda dumb
as she placed her finger and her thumb
In the shape
of an L for Loomis
Well, the gains aren't coming and they don't stop not coming
Breakin' the rules and I'm still shit postin'
Didn't make sense not to post for fun
Your posts seem smart but your drawings get dumb
So much to draw, so much to see
But i'm just sitting in my basement seat
You'll never know if you don't go
Post your work or you're a homo


Hey now, draw your waifu, post your work on /ic/
hey now, no more laifu, parents are disappointed now see
All those art gainz are lost
Ignored the crit~iques you were told


It's a meme place and it only gets memer
You think you're smart now wait til you get older
But the furry inside begs to yiff(er)
Judging your anatomy’s like a sparklewolf picture
The new meme rate is getting pretty thin
You just wanna draw porn so you're gonna fit in
This is my patreon, how bout yours

[chorus x2]


Somebody once asked why does your style look like ass
you need to get yourself out of this dumb phase
I said yep, time to photobash it
I could use that brush set, myself
And I'll add some aberration for praise
Well, the likes start coming and they don't stop coming.
Gonna be Kronz when I start colorin'
If I don't make it I can always get a gun
Thought you got gud but can't draw a thumb


So many artists as good as me
No, their taste belongs out on the street
You know you wanna follow
Every follower inflates my ego


[chorus x2]

>>2761135
Wew lad i cant even. Its still a mystery how people like Rembrandt or Raphael learn to paint without Loomis etc. Maybe it got something to do with copying and memorizing.

>>2762739
Really does fire up the neurons

>>2761120
This is really depressing and I'm only 3 years older than her. I think I'm going to quit for a few weeks.

>>2762739

Someone cover this shit kek

>>2762755
>I think I'm going to quit for a few weeks.
"someone is better than me, I better stop working so they get even farther ahead!"

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>>2761120

I have been actively drawing for about 2 years, but I still find drawing from imagination really hard. (Or using references correctly) Do you guys think that making studies and trying to draw them again from my head would help a lot?

>>2762554
>>2762557
>>2762562
I guess it all depends on personal experience but I've been drawing for as long as I can remember, but drawing just cause I liked it without studying and shit, didn't bring me anywhere. I suppose you could say I didn't start as an absolute beginner on the getgud path, but it was kinda close. Doesn't help I avoided drawing faces all the time in favor of guys in huge armors.
Anyway what the fuck do I know, maybe I'm just stupid

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Didn't Ven improve this much too though?
Found this on her sketchbook a while ago.

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>>2762786
and she posted this on her tumblr a couple days ago.
Both girls..

>>2762755
nah dude don't do that. the point of this thread was not to discourage anyone, just wanted to hear opinions on this 2-year-gud thing
i think it doesn't matter how good x person younger than you is, you shouldn't care, also like someone said here they are all studies and shit, sow whatever i guess.
just put effort and dedication in getting good and don't pay attention to how other artists fare, shit's just distracting. or perhaps even better look at their work and see what you can learn from it

>>2762013
>I never even do it
it shows

>>2762086
I guess you were proven wrong neckbeard

>>2762786
>>2762788
theres a bunch of youngsters on this board doing good progress, gonna go catch up to them brb

>>2761458
That's not even close to being a "perfect match", you tard.

>>2761909
Are you people seriously so shit at drawing that you can't do a study that's a pretty close match to the ref by eyeballing it? Then you need to start practicing, cause that study, is CLEARLY not traced and you should be able to see that!

>>2762013
How can you fuck up a study this badly... How can you not see where you went so obviously wrong... /ic/ never fails to amaze me.

>>2762739
This is one of the first True pieces of art I have seen in a long time.

>>2761257
JOHN CENA

>>2762612
u cant read can u ?

>>2762013
AAAAAHAHA

>>2762739

this is fucking incredible

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>>2761458
get outta here with that trash I can get my shapes that close by eye. oh, and I'm a terrible artist by the way.

>>2761733
fuck off back to pol now... go on go... good anon!

Post work done from imagination. If that's solid, I'll truly be impressed.

Too often you see atelier fags who are really good at copying from ref, but their work completely falls apart when drawing from imagination.

>>2762779
Yes.

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>>2761135
>2 years isn't enough time to git gud

clearly you don't have the spark

>>2763221
>pic related absolute garbage
hey at least you were right about the terrible artist part !

>>2763221
The shading isn't great but overall that's MUCH better than most people on this board

>>2763250
this, cringed hard seeing some of their imagination shit. their observational stuff is fantastic though

>>2761621
needs more chromatic aberration

>>2763507
>clearly you don't have the spark
>tfw terrified to know that working hard will just be a waste because of this

>>2763515
No it isnt

>>2761306
Nigga You know the rules, POST YOUR WORK

>>2763577
it'll only be a waste of time if you work in a manner that's inefficient or incompatible with your learning style and you'll figure that out pretty quickly as long as you aren't stubborn & don't let your ego get between you and your goals

draw everyday, challenge your comfort zones, work deliberately and you will improve

>>2763516
>>2763250

Isn't Ven an atelier bitch though? Her imagination stuff is pretty good.

>>2763507

Well, shit. I definitely don't then.

Still gonna draw, but that's time has passed for me.

idk you guys, maybe it's because she actually spends her time drawing instead of shitposting on pointless boards like this

>>2764033
But she does shitpost on this board.

She's just has a really good eye for copying things, anyone can do it if they try hard enough. It takes a lot of mind power to actually be creative.

From what I see she she's still at the "copy things because people like that stage" she doesn't really know what she's doing with her art.

In other words it doesn't really mater how long it takes you just enjoy it, and find a use for your art.
Only you know why to make art.

>>2764105
>anyone can do it if they try hard enough
Based on the other images posted in this thread...no, no they can't.

>>2764033

THE DEVIL, YOU SAY!!

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That's pretty impressive. I know she's probably gonna see this thread again, and if you are V, keep on improving. Don't stagnate.
I'm more of traditional artist, so seeing someone younger than me better at digital art comes off to me as no surprise, but rather a bit of inspiration.

>>2763582
Post your work

>>2764124
I would like to rephrase.. you can, but it's going to take you a while and you have to want to improve. (also guidelines help a ton hint hint)

>>2764166
Yeah, but the question is how long is "a while"?
Does it matter if it takes you until you're 60 years old? Most people probably want to do it before 40.

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>>2761120
You may aswel draw a curtain than this shit op.

I can't wait until /ic/ makes a 300+ thread all about me

>>2764261
don't worry they won't

>>2764261
fuck off nile

Probably the post cathartic, and healthy decision for me was to throw out all my fundamental books and just copy everything I saw around me from several angles till it stuck.

I've started practicing with inks to get a clean, minimalist style.

>>2764283
To be fair, who here hasn't gone through a period of intense shame at their earliest work? Took me a long while to come to terms with mine.

>>2764340
>tfw feel intense shame about current work

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>>2764261
You should be careful what you wish for.

>>2761124
this, keep a balance
drawing consciously is more important than just forcing it

>>2764283
b-but 4chan is for 18 years old reee

>>2761257
I'd e-eat his butt out, n-no homo haha.

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I'm proud of her.

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>>2761257
wanna spread dem cheek and lick on that gloryhole

>>2761155
>some people are natural!
>yeah, that's why I'm still shit, it's genetics, out of my hands, it isn't me being a lazy fuck and not applying myself to the study

>>2761120

this thread made me want to kill myself

>>2761135
A lot of people learn best by trying to figure stuff out on their own. The struggle is where the learning happens