Is there a point in learning proportions of a human figure, when

If you can trace and not have it come out as shit, go for it.

>>2729804
It's a matter of pride. In yourself and in your craft.

Do whatever you want.

>>2729804
My humans improved dramatically when I stopped using Design Doll to cheat.

>>2729804
where can I download poses of Design Dolls, Illegally?

>>2729804
A gesture would always be 100x faster than you setting up that 3D model.

>>2729804
what >>2729807 said.
If you can trace it and make it not look like shit go for it.
By the way, you won't, because those models look preety shit and don't behave like a real thing would. They can only help you with foreshortening etc.
If you want to be a tracer, the better solution would be just to make photos of yourself and trace them i guess.

>>2729804
Using a tool/cheat with no knowledge makes you a slave to it.
Very often art is not about using "correct proportions". You learn what is correct so that when it comes time to do our art you can make a well informed decision on how to work it.
By the way, the purpose of programs like design doll and daz3d isn't really proportions. That's not what the crutch is for. The appeal of the software is to help place posed figures into perspective. Even if you know how to do it it can be time consuming, and using 3d figures lets you explore camera options.

The point is that to this day there's no tool that will make you a master. Most of art is informed decision making, and if you have no knowledge of what you're even deciding on you simply cannot compete with someone who knows what they're doing.

Goddamn, where are my links when I need them? I remember YouTube video where guy explained it very clearly - first he traced a figure and then remade the pose from the photo with proper construction.

Needless to say, latter was much, much better.

Also

>Loomis

Take him with grain of salt, for example his illuminated sphere on which you point out shadows and lighting is drawn badly, he doesn't know where highlight and which parts are brightest.

>>2729859

Yeah but was his composition a fresh unique idea or was it anime grill standing on solid fill BG #quintillion? This program appeals to nothing but pornfags.

>>2729869

Well, he was drawing figure in some sort of biker jacket from photo reference in possibly realistic manner, or at least as as much as rough sketch makes possible.

But yeah, pornfags are retarded and deluded.

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Using 3d models is much better than working solely from your imagination; prove me wrong.

(pic is from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmYjIlvrL6w ).

>>2730118
Just use yourself and take a photo, it will be infinitely better than posing a 3d doll

>>2730118
if you are a total noob, sure

>>2730118
>drawing on the left
>your art when you are total shit symbol drawing mongo

>drawing on the right
>your art when you cheat by tracing over a 3D model, learning and improving nothing by letting the doll do the work for you

Anyone else unable to download and install Design Doll? I download it try to install it says: "Application activation is not possible" - Click on application desktop icon or select from Start Menu ...

I had it installed working before. I had to do a full restart OS reinstall for some hardware upgrades. I tried using on my windows 8.1 / 7 / Vista and XP computers. It gives this error on all of them... Anyone else having these issues?

>>2730122

I take a lot of reference pictures of myself but for certain extreme action poses it's not practical. One of the best things about 3d is that you can lit the models however you want too. This is also not possible or practical even if you have access to a high end photo studio.

>>2730123

James Gurney uses clay maquettes that he snaps photos of for reference. It's essentially the same thing, so I guess he is a total noob aswell.

>>2730211
You're not a James Gurney though.

>>2730211
I'd say there's a difference between reference and tracing.

>>2730212

First you said using 3d reference was for noobs, now you're implying it's too advanced for the anyone but him. So which is it?

>>2730213

Sure, I agree. I'm not OP and I don't trace. I just use 3d models loosely for referencing perspective and lighting etc on some pieces. I'm actually very comfortable drawing figures completely from imagination and I'd say that's a requisite for using that kind of reference effectively anyway.

>>2729804
Holy shit. Are you trying to be a artist for Marvel? Because they do that and it looks like utter dog shit I assure you m8

>>2730227
>First you said using 3d reference was for noobs
I did not say that. Once again you're trying to spin my words to fit your narrative. "Sure if you are a noob" to ME implies, by your comment...
>Using 3d models is much better than working solely from your imagination
a noob would think their workflow will be more streamlined and easier than learning to, you know, draw. Because /3DCG/ is 2 blocks to the left.

When I said "you're not a James Gurney", it means you don't have his skills he honed from years of painting where taking shortcuts to meet deadlines is simply 'part of the process' means to a paycheck.

>>2729810
I guess this is a big part of it.
I could never trace in good conscience.

>>2730246

Using reference is not a shortcut, though. Gurney doesn't use maquettes to meet tight deadlines, he uses them because it improves the quality of his work. He very clearly states that he cannot meet the same level of realism without it.

Using 3d models as a shortcut would be to copy paste a render into the painting like some of the prominent photobashers do and pain/trace over it. That's not what I'm talking about here. I'm not OP and I'm not trying to defend him. I'm simply saying that there is value in 3d as a tool.

>>2729804
Ohgod anon do not use this shitty model for christ's sake. If you're gonna trace, trace a realistic model not this weebshit. You can always stylize it later

>>2730118
why does he talk like that?

>>2730206

Anyone? I use another 3D posing tool but this irks me.

>>2730258
but it is a shortcut, you can do the same with mere construction. they're just figures not fucking mechas or airplanes, now that is where 3d shines.

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>>2730118
I don't get that at all.
That's like those info-mercials where someone fucks up everything on purpose.

>>2730348
>but it is a shortcut, you can do the same with mere construction. they're just figures
>just figures
>just
>figures

>>2729810
This is the wrong answer. Fuck pride. You should only take pride in how good the product looks, no one else gives a fuck if you took the long way.

That being said, 3d models are a tool you should absolutely use, but learning the fundies (i.e. hours of life drawing) will enable you to use those tools 100x better. Its like steroids. You should only use them once you've trained to your natural potential.

>>2730466
Nobody is accusing you of dignity, photobasher.

>>2730476
>implying thats an insult
I blindfold myself for a full week before starting a drawing in an underground all white room,just to be sure that im not under a harmful visual influence.

Cause, yknow, originality is the most important thing and creativity only exists in a vacuum.

>>2730512
You're just a glorified collage artist.

>>2730514
At least im glorified. If only you had a time machine to go back to before photography started doing your lack of a job better than you ever could.

>>2730348

No, using reference is not a shortcut. it's a tool to improve the quality of your work. And no, your construction abilities are not superior to 3d graphics I'm afraid.
That's one of the specific reason Gurney says he uses models for reference - it's difficult, impossible or impractical to plot cast shadows etc. accurately in complex scenes. Sure, you can do a pretty good approximation but it will never be as realistic as when working from reference. And when you add things like architecture and landscapes into the mix things just get ridiculously complex. If you use 3d you can lit a scene however you want and create beautiful light situations on the fly. It allows you to be more creative, not less.

It's obviously not needed if you do more abstract stylized stuff or figures with linework only, but for realistic painting reference can only improve your work.

>>2729804
It will just slow you down in the long run. Why use a crutch forever when you can learn how to walk?

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>>2729804
>Have the urge to never work from imagination ever again
>Draw from 3D imagination, and realize I could do it way easier with blender models

I don't really want to though.
It'd be robbing myself of the joy of knowing everything came from my hand.

I'd only do it if I'm doing a commission for someone. I would want everything to be absolutely perfect for them. At that point, it's pointless to worry about my own personal pleasure in what I do. It's all about what looks the best.

Learning anatomy can help you properly stylize your art.

>>2729804
Kys

>>2730760
>It'd be robbing myself of the joy of knowing everything came from my hand.
But it doesn't. It comes from Loomis that in turn comes from academy that in turn comes from Leonardo's treaties, that in turn come from nature.

Are you autistic enough to go dissect corpses and chart muscles? No? Then use models, the composition and end result is what matters.

>>2730206
>>2730340

Anyone unable to download and use Design Doll?

>>2732010
Nope, it works perfectly fine for me.

>>2730286
I think he said he was Ukrainian in one of his videos