Plato says "Fuck photo realism!" How does this

>>2667487
he's right

Plato was salty that he couldn't draw. This is a big trend amongst philosophers.

How local Romantic painter from Anonymous Proxy discovered ONE WEIRD TRICK to paint more realistically!

Philosophers hates him!

>>2667487
>How does this make you feel?

Fine. Realism and "photo realism" aren't the same thing.

Interpreting a subject and making choices on design (or "style") is the difference between an actual interesting picture and someone posting a drawing copied directly from a photo on Facebook.

That's not really the full meaning of Plato on visual art. All art is a result of mimesis. That caption suggests the bad thing about paintings is that they are "mimetic" whereas that is simply the first principle of art. In another instance, Plato lays out the purpose of art to provide a beautiful orderly environment where the soul will gradually take in the form of the beautiful through apprehension of the likeness of beauty in art, as if by a healthy air the body and then the soul become healthy. In this way art imitates the logos to transform the art which would otherwise imitate only the sense experience. It's not a surprise that whenever an artist sought to express divinity in painting figures or whatever else they looked to Platonic idealism.

These degenerates use that misleading quote by Plato to advance their own chaotic and ugly "art" that Plato would have in a great degree found to be blameworthy. True sophists of our time.

>>2667544

>Plato lays out the purpose of art to provide a beautiful orderly environment where the soul will gradually take in the form of the beautiful through apprehension of the likeness of beauty in art, as if by a healthy air the body and then the soul become healthy. In this way art imitates the logos to transform the art which would otherwise imitate only the sense experience

Deep shit. Didn't know plato was this far gone, truly the father of philosophy.

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Is there a source for this Plato argument?

>>2667497
kek'd

>>2668115
I don't remember exactly where the OP image's claim is from, but it's thematically related to "the divided line" where the things which are most false are reflections or shadows of perceptible reality as well as dreams, illusions, etc.

The one about the role of art in creating a healthy environment is from somewhere in the middle of Book III of The Republic.

Plato isn't all too consistent when it comes to art. There is even a part in the Symposium where the art-creative function is praised because unlike all animals which naturally regenerate themselves through breeding (as a way of prolonging life, and the prolongation of life as an instinctive striving towards immortality and the eternal), the maker aims to achieve a immortality through expression of the soul, since the things created are generates of the soul, and not merely of the bodily functions.

Perhaps it isn't art itself that Plato is wary of, but the artists. What I gather is that art is like a love, which occupies a middle ground (metaxy) between elevation and baseness, immortality and mortality. And perhaps this is what is meant when Hermes links heaven and earth.

In any case, if Plato was really against imitation of objects, he would be even more averse to graceless distortion of objects.

>>2667487
This debate was done years ago OP. Like, a 100 years ago. We have abstract art now to prove this point. Also it's well known that Ingres sucked at anatomy.

>>2667487
The more I read about Plato the more I realize how fucking wrong he is about a lot of things. The dude thought very highly of himself for a bum who did nothing his entire life but think. I met some guys like that, they think they know how the whole universe works yet they can't land a job.

>>2668236
>The dude thought very highly of himself for a bum who did nothing his entire life but think.
Because I'm sure he would've been more successful as a blacksmith or something.

>I met some guys like that, they think they know how the whole universe works yet they can't land a job.
If you're so smart why aren't you rich?

>>2668212
>I don't remember exactly where the OP image's claim is from
Drawing from Observation.

>>2668115
>And now we may fairly take him and place him by the side of the painter, for he is like him in two ways: first, inasmuch as his creations have an inferior degree of truth --in this, I say, he is like him; and he is also like him in being concerned with an inferior part of the soul; and therefore we shall be right in refusing to admit him into a well-ordered State, because he awakens and nourishes and strengthens the feelings and impairs the reason. As in a city when the evil are permitted to have authority and the good are put out of the way, so in the soul of man, as we maintain, the imitative poet implants an evil constitution, for he indulges the irrational nature which has no discernment of greater and less, but thinks the same thing at one time great and at another small-he is a manufacturer of images and is very far removed from the truth.

Basically:

Truth = *The* chair
Imitation = a chair
Imitation of imitation = a painting of a chair
Quintupple EXTRA heresy imitation = a painting of a painter painting a painting of a woodworker making a chair.

>>2668242
What? What's your point. You're saying nothing. Plato was a man funded by the state to do absolutely nothing all day long.

>>2668242
Did I say I was smart?

I know that I am smarter than this guy, because I know that I know nothing.

Socrates

Maybe you should read about better philosophers.

Also learn to write if you want to convey an idea because I don't understand shit about what you're trying to say.

>>2668271
>quoting Mr "everything known about me is second hand knowledge from Plato" Socrates
>calling Plato stupid

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Plato on music:
What, then, are the dirgelike modes of music? Tell me, for you are a musician. The mixed Lydian, he said, and the tense or higher Lydian, and similar modes. These, then, said I, we must do away with. For they are useless even to women who are to make the best of themselves, let alone to men. Assuredly. But again, drunkenness is a thing most unbefitting guardians, and so is softness and sloth. Yes. What, then, are the soft and convivial modes. There are certain Ionian and also Lydian modes that are called lax. Will you make any use of them for warriors? None at all, he said, but it would seem that you have left the Dorian and the Phrygian.

>>2668305
Fuck you got me there. I'm down.

>>2668333
>baaby's first Plato

>>2668271
>I know that I am smarter than this guy, because I know that I know nothing.
>smarter than plato
>smarter yet knows nothing
>proceeds to explain using English vocabulary
isnt that these people you claim to know really just a reflection of your autistic self?

>>2668333
is he complaining about certain modes or what?
can someone clarify in plain english

>>2668347
It's a quote not a statement. I should have put the quotation marks sorry.

Also I can't understand your last sentence.

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>>2668212
>>2668249
Pic related
Interesting read

>>2668350
He's saying that some modes are better fit for certain moods, a thing everybody on music knows.

>>2668355
gotcha thanks
got it once I looked up wtf dirge was

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> Pic related, a bust of Plato debasing the "Platoness" of the bodily Plato

I wonder if Plato would have acknowledged construction drawing methods as a way to show the concept of things in our mind (having the idea of all humans through the knowledge of one ideal man with ideal proportion).

>>2667487
>How does this make you feel?

Trigerred. Odalesque isn't a word. It's la Grande Odalisque.

>>2668227
>Also it's well known that Ingres sucked at anatomy.

Well known by who? He knew anatomy quite well and certainly better than 62.5% of /ic/.

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>>2668363
If you compare him to other painters of the same era that is.

http://www.apollo-magazine.com/closer-look-ingres-impossible-ideals/

Look at that arm man.

>>2668363
In OP's painting the girl has at least 2-3 more vertebrae than a normal person

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>>2668350
>>2668355
He's saying that certain modes (ionian) promote sloth and feminity, whereas others (dorian) are masculine. Probably because different modes were associated with different things.

Essentially in the republic he argues that the artist's role is to be beneficial to the state, and therefore degenerate art and art that is good but detrimental to the state should be removed.

>>2668271
>Also learn to write if you want to convey an idea because I don't understand shit about what you're trying to say.
Don't worry about it, I got everything I needed from you.

>>2668243
I meant the claim about Plato, which is misleading.

But after searching for that book, I came across the art of the author.

http://www.brian-curtis.com/text/paintings.html

n o s p a r k

>>2667487
Why would you listen to a guy from 2500 years ago when you could listen the the rest of human history that has only improved his ideas?

All Plato was good at was asking questions. Leave the answers to the philosophers who've had the privilege of time.

>>2667487
Where are artist and artisans in the Plato's soul-hierarchy-kind-of-shit?

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>>2670926
The fuck are you talking about? Plato makes numerous coherent arguments. Such as enlightened despotism being the best form of government.