At which point do you think using references is not ok anymore?

>>2663730

Nigga even James Gurney uses reference. Your work is going to suffer if you don't, simple as that. I've even seen Kim Jung Gi use reference for guns when drawing his comic books. Don't be retarded.

It also depends on how you use reference. If you mean Irakli tier, then yeah, that's definitiely not okay - his work is entirely dependent upon the works of skilled photographers. But if Irakli came up with his own pose, anatomy and lighting and only used indirect reference I wouldn't have any problems with his work.

I urge you to see James Gurney's vid on how he paints dinosaurs. He shows you quite a bit on how you can use reference and previous studies in your finished work.

>>2663757
>Don't be retarded.
I never even questioned using references, dumbass. Of course it is ok to use references, but to which point is the question.

>if Irakli came up with his own pose, anatomy and lighting
So in other words if he didn't use any reference at all... Great! Drawing pose, anatomy and lighting are the main reasons why people use references, dumbass. Otherwise you could just look at your own body draw pictures from that.

>>2663767
>So in other words if he didn't use any reference at all... Great!

No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that you should have maximum creative freedom and you can't have that if you rely on photographs to create poses and compositions. If you were commissioned to draw Deadpool fighting a dozen of backflipping ninjas with swords in a japanese pine tree forest obviously it wouldn't be practical to need a perfect reference photo for each individual in a dynamic composition.

I don't remember who, but a famous fantasy illustrator said in an interview to always sketch from imagination first before bringing in reference and I think that's a good rule of thumb. I'm by no means a KJG but at a point where I can comfortably draw the human body in most positions in decent perspective (inb4 post work) and it would actually take me MORE time if I would dig up reference first. I do use reference for certain details though and to make some adjustments in anatomy if needed. I also use 3d sometimes to create my own reference for lighting. Complex cast shadows are very difficult/impractical to invent. James Gurney uses crude clay maquettes for light reference and the 3d stuff is my interpretation of that method.
I often snap pics of myself in the mirror when I want to figure out certain details aswell.

>>2663767
You completely missed the point of that anons post

>>2663785
I did not miss the point at all. He was acting like an asshole although I never said anything aganst references.

And to find out the pose, anatomy, and lightning is the exact reason why people use references.

>>2663780
>always sketch from imagination first before bringing in reference
So in other words it's only ok to use references for some parts of the drawing for you? Ok...

>>2663780
>I can comfortably draw the human body in most positions in decent perspective (inb4 post work)
I really would love to see work from you, because drawing realistically from memorization is something only people with a photographic memory can do.

>>2663730
>At which point do you think using references is not ok anymore ... for actual work.
It depends on how you use references. Like if you had a picture of someone as a reference.
A bad way to use it would be to copy the perspective and angle so you're basically just drawing a stylized version of that picture.
A good way to use reference is to change the perspective, turn the figure, change how you're looking at it, change the clothes, ect.
I normally just use references as an idea of a pose, for an expression or just holding / using something.
>would it be ok to constantly use references but turning them into your own style/add some imagination to it?
Taking a reference and just making them anime is pretty lazy, and you shouldn't be doing it as a crutch that you'd need to rely on.
You should be using you're reference to enforce your drawing, not build it out of it. That's how you know you're going to far.

>>2663792
>He was acting like an asshole

I am an asshole. It wouldn't have been sincere if I was being too friendly. I do give constructive advice, though ;^))

>So in other words it's only ok to use references for some parts of the drawing for you? Ok...

Basically what >>2663874 said.
Again I refer to my Deadpool commission example. It would be pretty damn difficult to arrange perfect photographic reference for each of the dozen tumbling, backflipping and sword cutting ninjas. If you didn't have the ability to draw a okay figure in any position you simply wouldn't be able to come up with a good, original composition. Obviously it would be fine to look at photos/videos of people backflipping with a sword from a tricking competition to get an idea on how to position the limbs etc. but again, if your drawing skills are so poor that you'd have to copy the exact silhouette from one picture instead of inventing your own backflipping figure your work will suffer. You'll be dependent on the reference. This gets amplified when taking in consideration creatures and things that do not exist in real life.

>>2663811

Oh, now you're just being silly anon. Obviously I don't claim to be able to draw a perfect photo realistic figure in any pose, but I can get the rough idea down. It's by no means a uncommon skill. Any average capeshit comic book artist can do it. The point is that I am not dependent on photos to visualize poses and actions. Btw, there is no such thing as photographic memory.

>>2663888
>Any average capeshit comic book artist can do it
But their characters also look like shit mostly. I just find that my drawings tend to look much better when heavily using references, so I wonder if it wouldn't be ok to keep doing this, as long as I add some own stuff to it.

I just really like realistic styles, but drawing somewhat realistically from imagination is too difficult.

>>2663910
>drawing somewhat realistically from imagination is too difficult.
Boo fucking Hoo. Just give up on drawing it realistically from imagination then if you're just going to cry about it and not practice / study.

File: heart.jpg (186KB, 962x372px) Image search: [Google]

186KB, 962x372px

I'm sure this wont be a popular opinion, but I never hesitate to eve flat out trace from photos.

I make medical legal exhibit boards, and the turnaround time is super fucking fast, and unlike editorial work it has to be pretty convincingly realistic.

If I need to make a texture of ay fat, I usually find a good image online (free for commercial uses, if possible), and modify it a bit until it can't be recognized, then go to town on my image. If I need to draw a particular surgical instrument, I will find a good reference, paste it into photoshop, and change the lighting on it/remove any branding.

I don't purport to be a fine artist. My work is hyper-commercial, and have no guilt about what I do.

I also take pride in making 100% original work on the side, but just know that if you want to make it in the industry you're going to have to get past your apprehension to use references.

Image not mine, but related.