I'm completely clueless when it comes to gesture drawing,

>>2637332
>/how that translates into accurately drawing the figure?
It doesn't.

>Do the C/S curves indicate where a muscle is pinched/stretched so you dont need to guess as much?
No.

it's just rhythm, that's literally all there is to it

>>2637334

in other words its useless to learn.

This shit confuses to me to know end. All I want to do is draw accurate people.

>>2637335
no it isn't useless, everything has a flow and rhythm and if you sketch that out first in its entirety its easier to elaborate on. If you can keep that flow/rhythm present while you make the drawing more detailed, then you're in the money.

Try doing gestures of simple objects first - jugs or bottles from life. This will help you build up to figure drawing gestures.

>>2637335

Your people will look stiff if you don't practice gesture.

>>2637339
>gesture of a bottle

are you trying to meme

>>2637339
>gesture of a bottle
the fuck man. Gesture is only present in organic shit like animals, plants, water or fire.

op, try Hampton's figure drawing book (much recommended) and/or Vilppu's drawing manual.
DON'T skip gesture, it's by far the most important part of the drawing, it holds half of the story.
Calm down and try to bring the human form out of the paper with continuous, deliberate strokes. Vary the pace and line weight as you glide across the figure, draw rhytm lines, core shadows or organic curves, forget the contour and keep it clean. Confidence and a clear mind are essential, it's almost like a meditation.

tl;dr - feeeel the form, faggot

>>2637491
>Gesture is only present in organic shit like animals, plants, water or fire.

No it isn't. Obviously inherently stiff objects will be hard to capture a gesture of and doing one of a bottle is a little dumb, but gesture =/= organic. You could probably do a good gesture drawing of a racecar, or a flag, etc.

>>2637491

By that logic there wouldn't be any gesture present in a person sitting still or laying down, since they don't move. Everything has a gesture it's just more obvious in organic forms

>>2637544
gesture comes from asymmetry. a straight line is still a gesture, but that's all you're probably gonna get from a single massed symmetrical object like a bottle. exception would be something like this >>2637545

>>2637332
do it on paper and all will be revealed.
the paper calls to you my child

>>2637550

I'm still waiting for you to duel me on hangouts to see who can do better gestures, paperfag.

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>>2637335
>>in other words its useless to learn.

No, like >>2637350 your shit will look stuff as fuck. Gesture is essential if you're want to draw people. Everything is based off the gesture. It captures the flow and rhythm of the subject.

>>2637362
>>2637491
I just think of everything having a gesture, unless its something entirely rigid like a perfect cube.

>>2637557

>Everything is based off the gesture.

No, and it isn't essential. Not every pose is necessary to start with a "gesture". Please define stiff and get with me.

>>2637555
nice try ricky

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>>2637560
>Please define stiff and get with me

>>2637560
>>2637560
>Please define stiff and get with me.
http://lmsketch.tumblr.com
All his works are stiff

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>>2637631
>All his works are stiff
No, no it fucking isn't. His works are fine. What stiff means is a clog of shit in your ass because not only is your ass full of shit but so is your interpretation of "stiff".

Are you honestly going to tell me you'd start the initial set-up of this illustration with rhythmic lines or "gesture" in this case (the left). Are you going to feel the flow from within these tiny 2 sketches (right) before you actually draw the ass or is perspective more important? To say "everything" is based of gesture is a lie. Think deep with what the meaning of the word gesture is and how it applies to ones workflow.

Now am I saying this artists stuff is >dynamic<? Not really. When we use the word dynamic our sense of what we mean in a pose suddenly goes from point A to point Q. What does it mean to be dynamic? What does it mean to be gestural? Animated? Out of ordinary? Sure.

But stiff? Can you truly define stiff? Stiff as my dick in your mothers mouth? Stiff as a rock?

>>2637648
not him but that and almost everything on this guys blog lacks gesture. learn to see gesture and understand what it is before you start talking shit. if you want to learn, check out vilppu etc.

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>>2637648
Hold on I got an image we can use to define stiff. Anything worse than this and we could consider the person as a corpse. If you can draw a character that doesn't look like this it isn't stiff but but probably comes off as unnatural in my book.

>>2637648
stiff as fuck

>>2637648
It's stiff like wooded dummy stiff
It's stiff like plastic doll stiff
Stiff like your dick looking at futanari shit.

It's stiff weeb. Get over it.

>>2637659
fuck off, if you want to face me in a gesture battle get on hangouts man 2 man

>>2637663
calm it and accept you're wrong kid

>>2637665

I'm setting up the hangouts now. Don't run away from the link when I post it.

>>2637663
"Gesture battle"?

What the fuck are you 8? What's a gesture battle? Is that some Pokémon level autism shit? You going to go all Dragon Ball Z on some anon, wait to the last second and turn super saiyan 1 million on anon's ass? Is that how you see yourself? Are you that much of loser that even during internet disagreements you live in a fantasy?

Get a life weeb.

Ain't nobody going to waste time playing Yu Gay Oh! with you.

>>2637670

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IQZNVhVisw

Ah the last time we did this was back in August of 2015 and you never showed up. Boy does time fly, eh?

ebin

simply

xD

>>2637671
WOW! You really are pathetic.

>>2637681

And you're a pussy. How ironic the same month in 2 years must I challenge you to a gesture battle and you refuse to face me.

>>2637557
how is that gesture, there's already form

>>2637684

You can have volume in gesture contrary to your textbook belief. When you get off the training wheels then you'll know.

>>2637682
There is no irony here. It's just plain tragic you've been living with some shitposting grudge for 2 years. WOW!

I hate it to break it to you, but I'm not who you think I am. Nobody is going to do a "gesture battle" with you. The idea is pathetic. You're pathetic. At first I thought it was a joke. But now I see there is some back story here. Sad.

Seriously. There is something with you to go around on the internet asking for "gesture battles" That is some serious asperger-autism level shit right there.

>>2637332
>>2637335
So did you make this thread just to start a shitstorm or are you legitimately this stupid?

>>2637692

Hm, I've given it some thought and I do see how "gesture battle" does seem childish. I never thought of it that way.

Still, there is nothing pathetic about gesture battles.

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>>2637648
Anti stiff staff for you
>http://ataboh.tumblr.com/

>>2637709
>http://ataboh.tumblr.com/

This is gorgeous, followed, thanks for sharing.

>>2637709
>29 years old
fuck give me a break

>gesture battle
Are you gonna feel each other's tension?

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>>2637686
(not anon you were talking with)
This is my biggest problem with gesture, understanding of what it REALLY IS.
Because right now either what I see is a huge controversy or I'm retarded as fuck. Probably latter. Please help me understand.
Let's say, I'm watching Villpu.
He tells me gesture is flow and motion and story, not a contour so I(being a /3/fag) imagine it like spline in on which form is built afterwards. Like uh, imaginary sculptural wire armature for form.
But then the very same Master Villpu draws contours and flowing lines that describe _form itself_ and calls it "gesture".
What the hell? What am I missing?

>>2637709

FUUUUUUUUUU

>>2637751
At 2:50

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ktfwayByRU

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>>2637751
Yeah, you're retarded.

> I(being a /3/fag) imagine it like spline in on which form is built afterwards
First of all, gesture is not structure, you don't build shit on it. Gesture is the relation of the various rhythms of the body. You then use the gesture to determine the relation of forms on the body, but those forms only occupy the same general space as the gesture, gesture is not the skeleton or armature that holds the forms/mass. That would just be a stick figure.

>He tells me gesture is flow and motion and story, not a contour
>draws contours and flowing lines that describe _form itself_ and calls it "gesture"
No. A rhythm can be found on the surface of form, but it is not contour. Describing form is also not drawing contours.

This shit isn't hard.
Every part of the body has a rhythm.
Those rhythms work in opposites.
Moving from one rhythm to the next, following the above rule of opposing rhythms is how you draw the gesture.
That's it.

You can use simple lines to move from rhythm to rhythm, like Vilppu.
You can use a shammy, and it would give more mass to the gesture, but it's still a gesture.
You can use the line of the longest gesture and add structure like Huston before placing the next rhythm, it doesn't fucking matter.
Gust find one rhythm and move on to the next.

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If you want, I made a quick example of a stiff vs. fluid gesture based on the same ref.

>>2637332
>ELI5
Die.

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>>2637751
As to not confuse I'm not >>2637801

Anyway, Vilppu's teaching method is simple renaissance drawing in that everything jumps from one thing to the next to the next. This theory works really well if you just take a painting from that time period and try to deconstruct it yourself; eventually everything follows back to the central focus--this is flow and composition (2 birds 1 stone kind of deal). Gesture being a 'wire armature' is good for school learning. It's not practical when you're actually drawing.

>anon what do you mean by school learning

Proko, Hampton etc all have this basic introductory method of gesture. These restrictive rules of "C,S,I" or follow the spine "cervical, thoracic, lumbar" then "lol my thinking line, stretch, curve, finish" methods. I personally am don't like these rules and treat them as training wheels for in the classroom. When you leave the classroom then you can experiment on your own notation and Hampton himself encourages this (which is why he states "if you don't agree with my BS then that's okay you help make my job writing my book easier lol.")


1/2

>>2637801
you're doing it wrong, you're supposed to keep proportions in check while drawing a gesture.

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>>2637881
2/2

Vilppu's method is procedural. However not every pose is practical to start off with >long lines of action< (especially a lot of porn poses like, for example, what you'd see in kusoge screenshots on boorus, analyze those for a clear example on forms that are concealed from view). That is when you'll use a different set of tools and hence you'll use "flow" and volume together.

Sometimes you can use the LOA or line of action.
Sometimes you'll break it down in one big shape or you'll start with a hand or maybe the pelvis.
Sometimes you'll attempt to be as organic as possible with your shapes.
And sometimes you'll use none of these and go with a basic contrapasta method for a simple standing figure.


>Villpu draws contours
Have you watched Vilppu tape on the 3 different approaches? He goes over this and says that's okay. I wonder why this specific tape is less popular with /ic/.

>>2637801
This is shit. Thanks for not wasting my time with the gesture battle after all these years.

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>>2637885
Looks fine to me.

>>2637917

nigga nooo stop stop

>>2637919
I'm not him, I'm trying to see what's wrong. Show me.

>>2637921

First of all, proportions are based on ones ideal model. Your ideals are different from my ideals. If you have to measure proportions like that when drawing you are definitely not going to make it. Secondly, you drew on top of it and did not see the error in the persons balance you told yourself that it looks right. You literally have the axis drawn and still tell me "whats wrong with it?"

3rdly I'm not going to use my skills to draw over a nosebro drawing--yeah I can tell it's nosebro.

im learning alot today

>>2637932

Glad to hear that.

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>>2637928
>First of all, proportions are based on ones ideal model. Your ideals are different from my ideals. If you have to measure proportions like that when drawing you are definitely not going to make it.
Nigga, what? You said the proportions are wrong, I just checked using Richer's average proportions.

Show me what's wrong.

Also, Krita is such a shit program, holy shit. It'd be faster to use MSpaint.

>>2637935

No that's a different anon and I just stepped in to correct your nonsense.
>now using heads tall
yeah I'm talking to /beg/ crowd..

>>2637936
>now using heads tall
It's literally the same measurement as the first one...

Seriously, what are you saying?
If it's wrong, show me how it's wrong. Why are you even here if you're just going to use buzzwords instead of helping other artists?

>>2637939

I just spoonfeed my 2 cents a few posts ago, that is considered more than helping.
>>2637932
Said he learned a lot today, I think I did my job. Maybe you're the one who needs to back up a bit.

Unless you want to...you know...challenge me to a GESTURE BATTLE????

>>2637941
Stop memeing like an autist.

I'm asking you to tell me how the proportions are wrong.

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>>2637942
I can show you how wrong you are...

In google hangouts? Why is this so hard for you to understand?

>>2637944
Not even him, but nigger, just draw it.

>>2637666
O shit, satanic trips mean business

>>2637944
I don't want to RP pokemon with you, I want to know how I am using proportions wrong, you mong.

>>2637947
But humiliation is better on a live feed :(

>>2637955
I want to show you why it's wrong and humiliate you in front of the entire board, paperfag. Just please accept.

>>2637958
>paperfag
Nigga, I think you're talking to the wrong person.

>humiliate
Just... Just show the proportions, you fucking child.

This is the last post, if you don't deliver, I'm just assuming you're talking out of your ass because you have nothing better to do.

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>>2637962

Oh, if you're not paperfag then out of my face.

Have a good one.

I'm really beginning to think this guy is on meds. This beyond the usual, "I was only pretending to be retarded"

>>2638066
Who?

There are, like, 25 people in this thread

>>2638071
Who do you think? Read the thread.

>>2638074
But everybody's arguing with everybody.

>>2638075
There is only one autistic in this thread. Challenge him if you'd like to.

>>2637802
vetyr saves the day yet once again

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>>2637928
>it's nosebro
It isn't, and I don't know who that is, but I take it that's an insult.

I'm a beginner, and I never claimed I have anything down perfect. The point is that the concept of gesture is simple as fuck, and it's not Vilppu that was confusing the guy.

/ic/ in general acts like gesture is the be-all-end-all of drawing.
You draw one curve, then you draw the other, it's not rocket science.

>>2637802
the lady in the ref should have the gun right up to the hollow of her shoulder if she's shooting. Otherwise she'll knock herself over or bruise her face/shoulder.

>>2638173
Looks like an air gun to me, she may as well be firing from the hip while drinking bourbon with her dominant hand

>>2637917
>>2637917
what are you measuring, flat 2d plane?

>>2638189
It was just a rough check. The perspective is not really relevant in this case since the head is angled in the first place and the primary forms are largely angled to the same degree

>>2637941
nigga, i didnt learn shit from you. fuck off pleb. git gud

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>>2638677

I think I'm too intelligent for this board. Maybe it's time I stop coming here.

>>2638702
on behalf of what? is it the way i talked? is it the way people draw around here? what makes you "too intelligent" to be here?
also post your work!

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>>2638707
On second thought I think I'll stay. /ic/ needs me more than it thinks.

What I'll do is stop bestowing my knowledge to lesser, intelligent beings so that I may not rot my brain quicker than planned.

>>2638734
>he plans to rot his brain
2intelligent4me

>>2637708
>salty anon didn't deliver on the hangout

COWARD
O
W
A
R
D

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There's a lot of misconceptions in this thread.
Gesture is a relationship of forms, an energy running through body in waves, that's where the rhytm comes from. It's physics, one form in a wave can't say fuck it I'm gonna follow a different rhytm, that's why we describe gesture with flowing curves.
If you throw a punch, every muscle will conform, if you sit down, your body takes on rounded forms that don't resist gravity that much. If the form doesn't generate/isn't affected by energy (bottle, car, chair, book), it can't have a gesture.
Proko, Vilppu, Huston and all those dudes are just offering you methods that work for them, but the gesture itself is very objective.

>>2637528
There's a difference between a gesture and a sketch. Gesture of a racecar? Nope, that's a sketch. Gesture or a flag? YES, that's the wind moving through it in rhytm.

>>2637545
kek'd

>>2637559
Sure, Van Gogh did that with Starry night and it turned out pretty well.

>muh synergy

>>2638793
> If the form doesn't generate/isn't affected by energy (bottle, car, chair, book), it can't have a gesture.
Wrong. Like you said yourself, gesture is the relationship of forms, meaning objects that consist of several forms have a gesture. Especially when we talk complicated objects like cars that have hundreds of form intersections that all follow an aerodynamic overall design.

>gesture itself is very objective
That is true but you yourself don't seem to understand what gesture is.

>>2639491

It's mikufag, take her advice with 1/3rd the grain of salt.

>>2639491
>objects that consist of several forms have a gesture
Draw me a gesture of a house, a brick wall or a cupboard, will ya?

Most cars have their front part shaped to resemble the gesture of wind for the sake of aerodynamics, but since they are constructed artificially, they don't conform to gesture - they don't conform to energy flowing in rhytm. That's the objective physics behind gesture.

>you yourself don't seem to understand what gesture is
Correct me then. Just saying I'm wrong doesn't cut it, you have to correct me.

>>2639501
It's just a meme, fuck off.

>>2639531
Was the "fuck off" necessary? Chill out you stupid kid.

>>2639538
Misunderstood your comment, my apologies.

>>2639542
Yeah you better apologize. Kiss my feet too while you're at it.

:o

>>2637332
Gesture drawing is a meme. Actually Loomis, Bridgeman, Vilppu and Hampton are all memes. The approach of deconstructing the human figure is downright retarded. You just have to learn how to detect colors/ values and how to measure and you will get good results way sooner. Nothing beats a keen eye and excellent hand to eye coordination. The authors named above are literally for talentless hacks who can't draw what they see.

>>2639648
and what if you want to draw from imagination?

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>>2639651
No, drawing from imagination is a meme just like Loomis and the rest.

Everyone knows that the greatest art is done strictly from reference.

Drawing from imagination is for kiddies and weebs with their anime shit.

I strive for accuracy everyday, pic related, one of my latest studies.

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>>2639531
>Draw me a gesture of a house, a brick wall or a cupboard, will ya?

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>>2639501
>her

>>2637332
Read pic related, go to quickposes.org and fucking draw.

>>2639660
Drawing random lines through objects is not gesture. Now stop shitposting and go practice.

>>2639663

miku is a girl is common knowledge, newfriend.

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>>2639531
>Draw me a gesture of a house, a brick wall or a cupboard, will ya?
You gonna be rekted now.

>>2639657
too obvious bait, 2/10

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>this thread

gesture is a tool, peoples usage and understanding of it might differ from person to person. that's why it is such a vague topic.
but it's a TOOL that you use to help you understand complex (or not) arrangements of elements by grouping and simplifying them.
take the face for an example, you might not understand how the face moves if you look at each element by itself. but using gesture you get a feel for how the entire face moves. and you can only do this because some of the elements are inherently connected.

just like how the upper arm and lower arm are connected. because they're connected, you can simplify their form while still keeping something essential.

again, this is a TOOL. i'm not telling you to draw noodle arms, but just being aware of the gesture of a pose, expression or whatever else can help you make design decisions that are more visually appealing and coherent. it helps you see the bigger picture.

>>2639693
post your work.

>>2639501
I don't think he's been on /ic/ since he got banned

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>>2639725
>he won't believe me unless i post work
if you think it makes sense then just believe me mate.

>>2639725
Don't reply to anime posters.

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>>2639791
>he can't handle it
one day you'll understand gesture too

>>2637802
>>2639681

Images like these tell me that gesture is just a meme. /ic/ is full of shit as usual.

>>2639870
Sumimasen, demo Watashi thinks you should leave this thread and never return, or post your work.

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>>2639681
>Look at how shitty those lines are
>Can't trust this picture worth a fuck

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>>2639663
Where can I get a quick download of this?

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>>2640079

nani shite better back da fakku ue saki watashi bukoroshite yaru anta ass out kono thread for ijiwaruing my tomodachi

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>>2640084

>>2640084
anta no nihongo wa shitto chi bi ecchi

motto ganbatte neeeee

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>>2640080
>>2640040
>Can't trust this picture worth a fuck
>http://www.angelfire.com/art3/kchendemos/
Do you understand that it's Reilly method? Watts, Erik Gist, Ron Lemen, Charles Hu even fuckin Huston use this style gesture. Goddammit, Vilppu himself mentioned this gestures in his videos. Do you even draw?
>inb4: waah it's not gesture it doesn't works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBk3ynRbtsw

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>>2640139
I can tell why you're a fan.

>>2637709
I really like this guy and he draws like a maniac, but sometimes I can't tell what the fuck is going on in some of his larger pen illustrations.

>>2638756
LOL