Can I get by learning to draw people by not mastering anatomy?

>>2636135
No. There are no shortcuts. Art was clearly not meant for you, just quit.

>>2636135

If you want to draw adventure time or teen titans go then yes you can get by being shit at art.

>>2636136

You dont need to know every single fucking bone/muscle to draw a person.

>>2636140
>not understanding the underlying structure and how tendons are attached and where muscles originate from, how and why and its purpose.

Not. Gonna. Make it.

>>2636135
Yea you need to study everything, as we all know only doctors make decent art

>>2636141

This is art, not fucking medical school

You can, but it won't be very good. But why even bother learning art if you'tr gonna be that lazy?

>>2636146
You draw with knowledge. Understanding the how and why tendons originate from and what forms are in relation to common tendons will clarify and help provide details for a more believable figure. It is essential to know the bony landmarks of a figure without this knowledge of bone structure you will have great difficulty drawing the forms of a figure forms are directly related to underlying structure.

>>2636143
Please stop posting.

>>2636154

It has nothing to do with being lazy. Consider all you draw is surface anatomy and I don't plan on drawing/modeling overly steroided muscle freaks I don't see the point. And all the resources I seemingly have aren't helping for shit. Proko, Villpu, anything on YT, Atlas of Anatomy for Artists, none of that shit helps.

fuck anatomy, if its a good idea it will might work

>>2636159
well it sounds like you've made up your mind then. Good luck.

>>2636163

I didn't "make up my mind". I can't progress/learn anything when these resources aren't fucking helping me for shit. And I learn better with videos anyway. These books are shit in terms of being able to see anything. Proko irritates me to no end and Villppus shit is so bad you can't see/understand a damn thing.

>>2636166
So what the fuck is the problem then? That you don't see the point, or that you can't find good resources? Which is it?

>>2636166
>All evidence points to you have to learn anatomy to be able to draw a person
>That's not what I want to hear! You're not telling me what I want to hear!
>I just want to draw sonic and anime girls!

We're not going to tell you what you want to hear, go to DA and look up tutorials on how to draw your favorite character or buy a "how to draw manga" book.

>>2636170

All of these resources aren't seeming to help me, it doesn't help that studying has never been my strong suit. On top of that, how the hell am I expecting to memorize how every little thing works/moves/looks.Drawing them isn't going to do that for me.

>>2636176
Stop being lazy.

/thread

>>2636172

I'm not looking to draw manga you autistic fuck.

>>2636177

If I was lazy I wouldn't have invested in an artists mannequin and downloaded a ton of fucking books/tried watching/following videos/doing what they say. So fuck you

>>2636181
yah you would lol

>>2636184

Kill yourself autist.

>>2636181
As I have said earlier in the thread, Art was not meant for you. You've clearly been suckered into believing with enough money spent on "resources" that you could learn how to draw without making life observations and studying anatomy.

Why wont you go back and play your video games or something to help you feel a sense of false gratification and accomplishment?

>>2636182
Whining and venting on this Bulgarian plastic molding forum is not gonna help you get better. You likely just have a terrible attention span/Learning capability.

>>2636188

Fuck off

>>2636190

If I can't get engaged with something/seem interested in it I can't fully learn it, whether its programming, or studying the small shit. I just want the end result.

It's like I can't retain any fucking info I try to learn. I'm not going to be able to memorize every single bone/muscle/how they move in contrast to others. Thats way too much info to retain. Idk wtf I can do.

If I could get some advice on how to study so I can actually learn this shit that would be helpful. But I probably won't get it.

It's possible but you're not going to draw any muscular body type.

>>2636211
The solution to your problem is to actually put time and effort into it and keep trying. So no, we aren't going to give you the secret trick to getting good by tomorrow.

>>2636214
anatomy is for a lot more than just muscular bodies. What the shit are you talking about.

>>2636135
m8 learning anatomy isn't the hard part, and of course you don't need to know EVERY muscle, but you'll benefit from knowing the basic skeleton shapes and large superficial muscle groups.

if you don't have it in you to do anatomy, theres no hope for doing any decent figure, because that's the hardest part with or without anatomy.

>>2636135
Yes you can. Rule of thumb is the more you know a subject the more freedom you have in your drawing so it depends on what you actually want to achieve. Be prepared to never come close to draw something that it's in your head and that you need to borrow pretty much everything out of references. But I will say it again, it depends on what you want to do. Also remember in the long term you will benefit more from the in depth study in the beginning because later you will learn new poses, new body types and shit like this ridiculously fast while if you just learning trough copying reference you will learn much slower later. It's totally viable though.

>>2636220
>decent figure

That's not the hardest part, the hardest part is feeling it :^)

>>2636217

I'm not looking for a "secret trick"

>>2636232
Get back to your books then and study them thoroughly.

>>2636135
you don't need anatomy to know how to draw you need common sense.

like stand up abs see how far your arms go can they reach your knees ?

no the can reach below your waste and to your thigh but raise your knee and touch it can you reach your knee now ?

yes it doesn't take anatomy it takes math and creationism to do art.

anatomy helps with reality paintings we're talking about cartoons.

>>2636235

im looking through atlas for anatomy, i dont see how this is helping me much. And prokos not helping either

>>2636237
>implying cartoons don't have overlapping forms and mimic the stretch and pull

As a matter of fact cartoons not only mimics life but exaggerates it further suggesting that knowledge is essential in drawing regardless of style or toons.

How are you going to exaggerate something without knowing what it is you're trying to exaggerate?

>>2636241
Try your best with "anatomy for sculptors". It has simple, instructive text and heaps of clear visuals.

>>2636241
Try drawing a pentagram on your floor with ketchup and then shoving a mango up your ass. That should do the trick.

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>>2636229

>>2636241
I literally see what your problem is now. You're overwhelming yourself. Try starting with simple grand shapes and slowly fill it in with the details. Don't start with the details. Also try to do the general things even if they look like shit and fill them in with specific knowledge.

>>2636248

You should try slitting your wrists, it would do humanity a favor.

>>2636259

My plan was to work limb from limb and connect them. I figure I should be able to muster up a base seeing as I have a wooden mannequin to post, and just try and get the muscles worked in from that. It's just finding a resource that "clicks" with me and is easy to understand/use.

>>2636135
>Can I get by learning to draw people by not mastering anatomy?

Well, considering pretty much every successful and popular professional artist sucks at anatomy according to /ic/, yeah, you should be fine.

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>>2636135
Tons of popular artists don't give a fuck about anatomy. They just draw simple and cute. Seems like symbol drawing give you a lot compared to hardcore anatomy.
>grind anatomy all day
>can't draw cute and simple

learn to use multiple references instead

>>2636274
>Tons of popular artists don't give a fuck about anatomy
And they are shit anon. Don't be like them

>>2636274
The opposite of symbol drawing is not good anatomy, but 3 dimensionality. Anything that is drawn with proper perspective and sits in 3D space is not symbol drawing. The image you posted looks pretty terrible, but the artist clearly at least tried to keep perspective and 3 dimensionality in mind.

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>>2636293
>Don't be like them
It's much better be able to draw cute and simple, while grinding anatomy. Less stressful than constructing anatomically correct abominations 24/7.

>>2636305

id rather kill myself than stick to drawing animu

>>2636313
Yeah, yeah, but I don't think your shitposting will trigger anyone here except another shitposter. Times changed.

>>2636135
Just take your time, knowledge of (almost) every muscle and bone is pretty basic knowledge, but it's not mandatory for a good drawing

So just relax and let it sink in slowly, just be sure to do studies consistently

>>2636146
show your surgeries

>>2636305
This. You'll learn more if you're enjoying what you draw.

That being said you still need to study if you want to improve, and if you enjoy drawing every detail to perfection then that's your way.

Tl;Dr just draw

>>2636145
I'm a doctor, I studied that shit and I've only memorized (some of) it for the finals. Only a surgeon knows the specifics really well and generally it's limited to his area of expertise. IMO it's important to have basic knowledge so you should study some plates but don't try to memorize it with excessive precision, and focus on the big picture not the small miscellaneous muscles

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>>2636305
k. You don't seem to understand so I'll explain to you.
> In aesthetics the uncanny valley is the hypothesis that human replicas that appear almost but not exactly like real human beings elicits feelings of eeriness and revulsion among some observers.
tl;dr: The most elements that resemble the human figure, the most are we likely to react to it. Not that cartoons and alike don't have its place, bur the artists like pic related handle those elements in the intended way (to arouse the audience) and while you could argue that some people wont nut to it, the mastering of those techniques and elements would allow you to toy around with it even more, thus, being able to recreate closer whatever you wanted to convey.

>>2636305

Is there a book like this?

I'm primary leaving 2D to do 3D anime art.

No, you don't need to learn about every single bone and muscle in the body.
Just the ones that have an effect on the body's shape and show through the skin in ways that significant affect the believably of your drawing of a given pose.
This happens to be most of them.

You can simply down a lot of muscles into groups though, real Figure Drawing: Design & Invention by Michael Hampton. He presents the major important muscle groups and bone landmarks of the body in ways that are easy to get your head around.

Resources don't make the artist, it's the blood and sweat you put in. Quit whining. We all mess up at first. Look at those resources you blew off and keep trying following them step by step. There's no getting around this. I used to have a short attention span, too, but then I realized art is MY passion and what I want to do with my life, if that isn't enough for you to grin and bear it then art isn't for you. No worries though, you don't have to be an artist to appreciate it.

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>>2636337
Isn't all Kyle drawings looks stiff because of construction? Hell, even Legoman's drawings looks stiff as fuck. It's like 100% "correct" construction hurts your drawing. Compared to this

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>>2636366
or this

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>>2636366
>>2636369
Are you blind?
> the mastering of those techniques and elements would allow you to toy around with it even more, thus, being able to recreate closer whatever you wanted to convey.
Also, while not anatomically realistic, there is a comprehension of how the body is structured, thus they know what elements to simplify in order to get that effect.

Second, what you are referring as stiff is probably lack of dynamism. Yes, you can have both, and is even more recommended to be as accurate at representing the subject to are drawing since it delivers a stronger punch (action in anime wouldn't be as strong if it was just stick figures moving wouldn't it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XczKQAAVbaA skip to 3:29 )

>>2636366
Sauce?

>>2636195
dory?

but seriously it sounds like you arent incable of memorising its just you wherent taught how.

You remember things through repetition of the information and applying it in various ways. so if you learn the muscles in the arm try applying what you just learnt and drawing a few arms and muscles hell even label them to further memorise alot of this depends on the individual as well some people are naturally better at remembering everything while some can remember in different ways for example phoenetic and visual memory vs remembering sentences and words from books.

>>2636295
plus they implied they knew the surface landmarks and placed them too attract attention to the ass.

>>2636135
You'll need an understanding of some muscles but nothing to drastic.
A lot of people will tell you you need to know every muscle under every part of the body when really you just need to know the basic ones and how they look.
It'll help knowing more but you can and a lot of artist do get away with only knowing the more prominent ones.

>>2636435
>Nostalgia Critic
Oh wow, that brings back memories.

>>2636266
You don't want to learn how to draw figures by starting with one piece and building out the rest, you need to be able to visualize the entire pose and figure, either in your head or on paper. Starting a drawing with the whole figure in mind will save you many, many headaches down the road. If you dont care enough to study muscle groups and shit at the very least learn how to draw stick figure skeletons and draw your characters over them.

Muscles are actually quite easy when you learn how they work. The only thing muscles can do is contract. The beginnning (origin) of the muscle is on one bone. The end (insertion) of the muscle is on another bone. When the muscle contracts, it pulls the bone it is connected to. That's really all it is.

For example, the bicep. Well known muscle, super easy. Starts at the upper arm and connects to the lower arm. When it contracts, it bunches up and bulges out, and it lifts the lower arm up towards the shoulder. On the other side, the tricep (which pulls the lower arm back down so it's straight) relaxes and stretches.

You don't need to know ever muscle in the body. Especially not the deep muscles that you really don't ever see. But it is very, very, very helpful to have an understanding of the "gross anatomy", the larger muscle forms and surface musculature.

Even cutesy art benefits greatly from an understanding of where muscles and bones lie. This >>2636369 is as convincing as it is because the artist knows where the muscles forms on the thighs are, where the fat collects on the stomach, the placement of the collarbones and the navel and how the calf muscle on the folded leg compresses.

Figure drawing is also much more useful as practice if you already know what the processes beneath the skin are. Instead of blindly copying and learning what looks good through trial and error, you see the capabilities and the appearance of specific parts and how forces acting upon them change how they look.

>>2637558

Here's one of my favorite examples. There is a scene in Show White and the Seven Dwarves, where Snow White is singing in the house and there's a pair of deer in the house. The deer were drawn by somebody who kinda knows what deer look like, but doesn't understand the bones and musculature and construction of the animals. They look vaguely like deer, decent enough, but nothing special.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIwa9sPFT5I

The compare to the deer in Bambi, where the animators went and studied live deer, and really watched and learned the anatomy of their subjects. They really managed to capture the awkward leggyness of a fawn, and the easy grace of an adult deer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezzBc5DiixI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ormU6ArcEIQ

In the end it's up to you if you want to put in the effort. I used to be like you, wanting to only draw what I wanted to draw and not pu in the effort to draw "boring" things and practice. I eventually grew out of it. I'm passable, as an artist, sure. But I know that I would be much better if I had actually listened to the advice I was given and worked on my fundamentals more.
Your work will always benefit from more reference rather than less. Always.

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>>2636176
>On top of that, how the hell am I expecting to memorize how every little thing works/moves/looks

You spend years doing it.

No one told you drawing was going to be easy, anon.

>>2637558

This is really solid advice. I feel like I gained a lot more understanding from figure drawing practice after learning this sort of basic anatomy. It can be presented as an "advanced" topic but I'm not sure it should be.

I think that the time spent on this sort of study pays for itself pretty quickly, since you learn faster from reference. It really feels like that for me, anyway.

Also, thinking about the body as a mechanical system and learning WHY the muscles are there is the secret. More interesting and much more useful for making up poses.

>>2636182

Cute. A twenty dollar investment and a shit load of downloads.

If you spent some time actually using those resources instead of whinging on this forum you might learn something.

op has got to be baiting

there's no way someone's this stupid

If you want your work to be excellent, you have to put in the work and practice and study to make it excellent.

If you just want to draw for the hell of it and are fine with it just being okay, then draw whatever you want however you want.

>>2636135
I mean you don't have to know every muscle and bone inside and out but that does help. And if you're like me I just find the human body and mustcle structure to be fascinating, so I enjoy getting in there and seeing all the nuance. Basically you should search for a way to enjoy studying this sort of thing. If' you're not enjoying what you're drawing then you're doing something wrong.

My advice, is to go about your normal way of drawing people but every time you draw something, say, add in about 20% content you're uncomfortable with. So Draw 80% however you like, then if you're not terribly good at drawing feet, spend that last 20% dedicated entirely to studying the foot and try your best to implument what you've learned into your drawing.

This is a good mode of thought to be in in general, no matter what you're drawing/painting. With every picture experiment with one aspect of it.

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>>2636331

>>2638151
not enough loomis

>>2636135
no. Then get used to drawing anime you pleb

>>2636159
>It has nothing to do with being lazy.

Yes it does. You are lazy and probably a child.

>"surface anatomy"

"surface anatomy" is still anatomy you fucking dip.

>>2636176

Studying isn't your strong suit because you are a lazy retard m8.

read a book nigga

>>2636241
>I'm looking through atlas for anatomy

pppfffftttthahahaha

truly the DSP of /ic. You sure you got the book turned the right way champ?

>>2637567

yfw little Bambi catches on quicker than op

>>2636141
he didn't say not having an understanding he said not mastering, you're correct he needs an understanding but doesn't need to be a master of anatomy.

>>2636135
YES, yes you can. Ironically though, it's way easier to sit down study that shit muscle by muscle and draw what you know for the rest of your life than to just keep guessing what it is that looks off about the picture.
You will appreciate the invested time with every single figure you draw.

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>>2636135
Yes you can. Ignore the armchair art professors above, telling you it's not plausible.

I can draw very convincing figures, and sure, I can identify the major muscle shapes. I definitely haven't mastered anatomy, but it hasn't gotten in the way of me learning how to gesture draw and figure draw from imagination.

Pic related, that's what I can do, if it means anything to you.

All that being said, you will still need to commit to a bit of technical learning for the sake of your craft. If you don't, you might not be able to draw decent people without seeing a reference. But relax, you don't need to know the names of the muscles and bones like Proko does. Just look at diagrams of major muscle groups from time to time, and recreate it on a sketch from a different angle. That'll be challenging. You can do it. No pressure.

>>2638221
doesnt look very good desu
you could use a bit more mileage

>>2636268
I've spent like 5 minutes on /ic/ and I can tell this is true already. The elitism is fucking insane, if the artist is popular theyre more successful than you apparently

Not everything has to be DaVinci does it?