>le art school is a scam maymay kek, sounds like when I browse

Gym memberships are cheaper.

>>2634295
>there are no cheap art schools
>living in burgerland
lel even third worlders can afford college without having to mortage their parents house.

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Let us know how your MFA from the Slade is coming along Eurocuck.

>>2634300
>blaming the school and not your shitty work ethic
>thinking the effort others put determines your own quality
lmao plebs

>>2634290
Retards going to shit art school and blame others in their fault.

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>>2634304
>>2634308
>9 out of 10 art schools have no staff on hand that can teach tangible representational art skills to their students

>these schools voluntarily choose to bankrupt thousands of young people a year and are well aware they are doing so at the stroke of a pen

>it's the students' and their parents' fault for assuming that their local art school would be able to teach them how to produce anything beyond fingerpaintings and macaroni pictures and what the word "composition" means

lol gradecuck

>>2634320
>going to some expensive one rather than a cheaper one
lmao retard.

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>>2634328
>going to one at all

holy shit lol

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>>2634320
>9 out of 10 art schools have no staff on hand that can teach tangible representational art skills to their students
>gradecuck
First it was about bad art schools, now it's about "9/10 art schools are bad" and "gradecucks".
Your MEMES out of control. What next? Academic drawings are not real?

>>2634329
>https://warosu.org/ic/image/IR9MXulKHg5bXsmk-ZpRVA
Jesus

What's wrong OP, starting to doubt if art school was worth it?

But what about good art schools.

Sure, I have the willingness to work on my own, but there is no doubt that doing so with a teacher and, most importantly, friends is going to make it much more enjoyable.

Of having someone to talk to and criticize each other, and make projects and provide feedback.

WITHOUT anyone using a variant of "meme", "cuck", "faggot", or "top kek".

>>2634348
>there are shit art schools
>therefore all are bad

>>2634351
I have had a very enjoyable experience so far and admire some of the works my teachers have put out. It has definitely been worh it, even if drawing class felt a bit short on some things.

>>2634295
There are no gym scholarships

>>2634300
>le slade meme
Nothing like my own art school experience. Was it anything like your experience? You know not every school is try-hard elitist conceptual shit, right?

>>2634329
My education was paid for by scholarships, BFA from a small in-state liberal arts college. I would rather have spent that time as I did, with access to printmaking facilities, stone sculpting tools, art history courses, a painting studio, etc. than sitting at home shitposting about art school and refreshing 4chan until I "git gud."

>caring about art school at all and not your own art
Not gonna make it.

>>2634290
op is the hero ic needs

>>2634290
You seem like a shitty guy, I don't know maybe you're nice, but you seem real shitty

>>2634389
>printmaking facilities

https://www.amazon.com/OrangeA-Printing-Machine-Station-Adjustable/dp/B016VSQVNO/

>art history courses

https://www.wikipedia.org/

>stone sculpting tools

https://www.amazon.com/National-Stone-Carving-Convenient-Roll-Up/dp/B000YLCVAM

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>>2634340
>>2634343

Here's another one for you're mom fgt, lmoa

If you don't care the professors wont either. These people have to teach hundreds of little snowflakes per semester, they're not going to hunt you down and make sure your practicing like they're your parents. If you went to a decent school and never showed interest, never asked your professors a question, didn't keep up with the daily grind, then tough shit; you've failed yourself. At the end of the day, the only one loosing out of and education is you, and they won't care unless you show initiative interest.

Anyone who complains about, "I went to LeArtSchool and all they did was smear shit on canvases", has nothing to complain about. We live in a time where we can talk to anyone about anything. If you couldn't be assed to do some research, you deserve to be swindled.

>>2634480
are you seriously implying that sculpting by yourself has no difference to learning through a school

wow

'illustrators' truly are absolutely clueless

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>>2634290
Except tools and weights cost money.
Tons of money for the expensive dedicated equipment.

pdfs of Loomis, Hampton, Bridgman, and a Pencil and some paper barely cost a cup of coffee.

>>2634290
Buying your own gym equipment is a lot more expensive than some pencils, paper, and art book pdfs. A gym membership is a lot less expensive than art academies. Gyms have only gotten more advanced over the years while art academies have declined rapidly in quality. Your comparison is shit and so is this b8 thread.

>>2634504
They are roughly the same price as they are time investments.

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>>2634505
lol no

>>2634505
>Time investments

I'll just let them know I'll pay them for the tutoring in "Time" instead and give him some clocks

>>2634509
kek

A bad art school is equivalent to going to a gym with no dumbells, barbells, a broken bench and a heavy focus on crossfit. The best you can do is ignore the instruction and do some pushups... which you could have done at home effectively making the whole thing a waste of money

>>2634495
This.

>Hurr durr I'm doing shit. I hope
it turns out, somehow.

Drawing, believe it or not, is like fucking calculus. You can't simply download a shitload of books and hope you understand half the shit they say, as you can't skip fucking linear algebra and start fucking integration whenever you want. There are methods you should learn in fucking order. There are things you will not learn through simple text and drawings.

Yes. You might learn. You must be super retarded not to learn. But chances are 90% of your time will be wasted.

Tell me why 87.463% of /ic/ should keep on the beginner thread.

>Hurr durr art schools don't teach x and y.

You know... You can attend art school AND study X and Y on your own.

>Hurr durr too expensive.
>Muh sheckels.

Don't be a 'mericuck. Sorry.

>Hurr durr list of self taught artists.

Yes. A handful of people made it. But you simply can't, fucking meme lord.

>>2634557
>Don't be a 'mericuck. Sorry.
A majority of people on /ic/ are from third world countries.

>>2634557
Ok, then why is it that the majority of people working in the art field never went to art school and the VAST majority of art school graduates never go pro?

>>2634602
Because there's no causation between the two. Just because they both have "art" in the name, doesn't make them mutual experiences. A person could go to either and it wouldn't matter much, in the end, it's all dependent on the individual. And just like any field, the vast majority is never at the top. This is obvious, anon.

>>2634379

What about sports scholarships.

>>2634557
>Hurr durr list of self taught artists.
Actually no one made list of self taught artists ever. Better to post memes about art schools

>>2634604
>Just because they both have "art" in the name, doesn't make them mutual experiences. A person could go to either and it wouldn't matter much, in the end, it's all dependent on the individual.

If the end result (fundamental knowledge) is the same, then the means of getting there don't matter. This is obvious, retard.

>And just like any field, the vast majority is never at the top.

The majority of the top is self educated

>>2634606
What about them? They're outside of the analogy

>>2634625
>The majority of the top is self educated
Post them.

>>2634625
>The majority of the top is self educated
Well duh mother fucker. Everyone is a self educator. You have to learn for your fucking self.

>>2634480
Lol are you serious

I'm talking about lithography, acid etching, aquatint, engraving, etc., not just facilities but hands on instruction. How do you do anything other than print t shirts with the link you posted (assuming you have the inks, screens, emulsion, etc)? do you think actual printing presses, particularly large format, are cheap?

Exactly how much stone sculpting have you done? You're going to wish you'd invested in a pneumatic chisel, but I'm sure your YouTube instructor will fill you in.

As for Wikipedia, it's a great supplementary resource, but you'll learn a lot more with guided instruction from people who have studied the works in person, along with jstor and a university library.

>>2634634
See>>2634329
Or go to any viewer ranking system on any online art platform and count how many actually have an art degree

>>2634635
???? Thanks for agreeing with me

>>2634643
That's a handful of anecdotes of illustrators specifically, doesn't take into account actual data for all art related careers.

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>>2634649
Ok, see pic related

Notice how there are even more music graduates than fine arts graduates who can actually make a living as visual artists

>>2634655
>date
outdated as fuck man, it's not even accurate anymore

>>2634643
>7 people
>majority of top

https://www.linkedin.com/title/animator-at-pixar
>of 5 filled out profiles, 4 listed that they went to an art school
https://www.linkedin.com/title/artist-at-ea
>of 10 filled out profiles, 8 listed that they went to an art school
https://www.linkedin.com/userp/title/artist-at-valve-corporation
>of 6 filled out profiles, 4 listed that they went to an art school
https://www.linkedin.com/title/artist-at-microsoft
>of 9 filled out profiles, 9 listed that they went to an art school

>>2634656
You're right, a lot of the remaining art graduates with actual art jobs probably died in those 5 short years.

>grasping this hard

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>>2634656
>>2634660
Memeanon is autistic. Just check archives. He backpedaling everytime

>>2634655
So arts educators don't count? That's like the whole point of an MFA. Most art professors still show in galleries. Other graduates will work in museums or galleries, far cry from mcdonalds. Plus no one is arguing the majority of grads will make it, most aren't fully invested or not willing to sacrifice a regular paycheck for dat starving artist grind. That doesn't mean the minority that do make it weren't helped by their degree.

Life is what you make it, sure you can make it without art school but pretending there is no benefit to art school is retarded

>>2634379
>There are no gym scholarships
There are, it's called being a fitness model and putting the gym you go to on your twitter.

>>2634674
It's called I can't fucking stand the millenial "it's called" speech impediment and I hope fire ants bite your dick

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The thing is that you can make it without an art school

But if you're motivated and make good use of it of course you'll get better and faster results from it

Why do you get so assblasted about this?

Yeah you can get kinda big doing pullups at home and maybe even bigger than non-roided gymrats, but you'll get bigger and stronger faster if you go to the gym.

If it's worth it to spend money to go to an art school or not is another deal, as it's been said most people here aren't americlaps so some of us instead of mortgaging our parents' houses we even get college for free.

>>2634680
/thread

>>2634678
Why don't you go post about it on your blog lel

>>2634660
I'll save you the trouble of looking and let you know that A) most professionals in general with linkedin profiles have college degrees, and B), those studios have way more than 5, 10, 6, and 9 artists.

>>2634667
You know there's a thing called "reposting other anons images"

>>2634673
>there is no benefit to art school is retarded

I'm not saying this, what I'm saying is that it's not worth the debt. If you have scholarships then you should absolutely go to an art school, ideally one that puts actual emphasis on fundamentals.

>>2634686
>backpedalling

>>2634634

>>2634686
Remember to change filenames next time >>2634340

Avoid saying 'degenerate' and other /pol/ memes too

>>2634499
>bro just pirate all the information and you need
>share the programs too while you're at it

you've become so lost in your own world you've forgotten there's a massive population of folks who still have integrity

>>2634523
>a heavy focus on crossfit. The best you can do is ignore the instruction and do some pushups...

brilliant post

t. potential_student6969

>>2634689
Most successful animator alive - self educated

>http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/nation/drawing-in-millions-10-richest-cartoonists/
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Groening

Most successful comic creator alive - self educated

>http://www.therichest.com/rich-list/nation/drawing-in-millions-10-richest-cartoonists/
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Lee

Second most successful video game franchise creator alive - self educated

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satoshi_Tajiri

>>2634699
Are you blind or retarded? The filenames in >>2634667 are all different.

>>2634686
A) the people included in those lists include senior artists and other higher-up artists at those companies
Here are some other notable examples though:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelmaurino
>former senior concept artist at Riot, studied at Artcentre
https://www.linkedin.com/in/renaudgaland
>lead character artist at Blizzard, designed overwatch chars, studied at
Haute École Albert Jacquard
https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-petras-a8494655
>art director for Overwatch, studied at AI of pennsylvania
https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilmujanovic?trk=seokp-title_posts_secondary_cluster_res_author_name
>lead character artist at Ubisoft, studied at
University of Toronto at Mississauga - Erindale College
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tompapadatos?trk=seokp-title_posts_secondary_cluster_res_author_name
> senior lead character artist at EA, studied at Sheridan
https://www.linkedin.com/in/frank-tzeng-29460b20
>lead character artist at Naughty Dog, studied at AI of california

I can search for more if you want

B) the entire industry has way more than 7 artists

>>2634720
Dude, stop embarassing yourself

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>>2634734
That's cool, but it doesn't really refute anything I said at all.

It's already proven that the majority of actual pros in the industry are self-educated, but I guess that wasn't satisfactory enough, so I also proved that those at the very tops of the respective industries are generally self-educated
here: >>2634720 There's nothing left to prove.

>>2634750
nice arguement.

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>>2634758
>it's already proven
Literally where? A few artists at the top taught themselves? How is that a majority?
Also you linked Satoshi Tajiri who is a game designer, not a games artist. The fact that you can't tell the differece is hilarious. He also went to a trade school 2-year program if you actually read the wiki.

>>2634761
>Literally where?

Majority of working artists being self-educated is proven here >>2634329 (look at the venn diagram)

>A few artists at the top taught themselves?

All of the studios mentioned in this post >>2634660 revolve around either video games or animation. The most successful animator alive is self educated, and the creator of the second most successful video game franchise of all time is self educated. I also included the most successful comic artist alive because of how intertwined it is with the other two industries. That is proof that THE guys on top are mostly self educated. How could I possibly make this more clear?

>Also you linked Satoshi Tajiri who is a game designer, not a games artist.

What the fuck? Both concept art and design are branches of the visual art industry

>He also went to a trade school 2-year program

Yeah, in electronics and computer science. How is that relevant at all?

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>>2634785
>proven
>image of venn diagrams with no citation/source
>oh wait i found it
>includes writers, authors, artists, actors, photographers, musicians, singers, producers, directors, performers, dancers, choreographers, and entertainers in the "working artists"
>literally nobody bothered to fact-check this
2/10

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>>2634799
https://www.princeton.edu/culturalpolicy/quickfacts/artists/artistemploy.html

46% of working artists are visual artists if you don't include "architecture" or "other".

The logic still stands.

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>>2634785
>Majority of working artists being self-educated is proven here
>ebin meme
>forbes
>numbers out of nowhere
>proven
This fuckin guy.

>>2634680
>The thing is that you can make it without an art school
>But if you're motivated and make good use of it of course you'll get better and faster results from it

With lots of art schools, it'll probably be more like...

>you'll get taught to do the wrong things by clueless teachers who never "made it"
>you'll end up with massive debt and interst, and spend the rest of your days working min. wage jobs to pay it off, leaving no time or energy for you to even begin to learn art in any decent manner
>you might try to justify that the school had a computer lab, cintiqs, etc. for you to use, but actually you could have just bought that stuff yourself for less than a semester's worth of tuition

>>2634852
>>you'll get taught to do the wrong things by clueless teachers who never "made it"
This is a legitimate problem with some art schools, but with internet it is ultimately your fault if you pick one where the teachers are nobodies.

Art school's just a tool to improving, and a good one at that, but at the end of the day all that matters is if someone's willing to put in hours of work daily to improve.

There's those who have made it without art school but that's because they had the discipline to use the resources available on the internet to learn on their own. The fact of the matter is that most people opting out from art school because "it's a scam" are actually just too lazy to learn and aren't going to make it regardless of whether they go to art school or not.

entertainment art -> self taught
art in galleries -> art university

>>2634852
>debt and interests
these ameriburgers and their college debt, lmao.

move to yurop or something faggot.
I'm a thirld worlder and my semester costs 100USD.

>>2634688
>it's not worth the debt
Well no shit

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>>2634340
>>2634667

>can't pick up on sarcasm or hyperbole
>"ur autistic"

Obviously there are "good" art schools that exist. I have never said otherwise. This is not "back pedaling"; I have nothing to "back pedal" from.

For example, you could relocate to California and go to Calarts or ArtCenter and pay around $35,000-50,000 a year to be among the privileged >3500 people that have a fantastic shot at "making it" into one of the local entertainment studios. This is not in dispute, but it's also not realistic for a lot of people.

You post these screenshots of the archive showing my images being posted over and over again as if I should be ashamed for having posted them as redundantly as I have or something, but I'm not in the slightest. If someone mentions going to art school in the U.S. within earshot of me (particularly a shit school like SAIC which was among the more recent ones mentioned by name) on this board I'm going to post it whether it's become annoying to the people who've seen it before or not, because if a person isn't privy to the information it contains they deserve to be.

>>2634660
Ignoring the claim that anon made which is based on the misinterpretation of my image he cited, the fact is the great majority of working artists whether they're the top or the bottom do not have a formal art education based on the best available data. Going into massive amounts of debt to attend school would be a dubious decision even if something like 25% of working artists didn't have degrees because it proves that they aren't necessary to find employment in the field, instead it's 84% don't.

>>2634823
>numbers out of nowhere

Actually they're numbers out of somewhere, namely Forbes and the Bureau of Labor Statistics published by the u.s. federal government.

>le ebin meme, meme

You can hide behind anime reaction images and buzzwords all you want but it's not doing anything to advance the conversation, whether in your favor or mine, fambalaya.

>>2634942
>he is american
>he doesn't go to study to canada or mexico or europe
>he doesn't join a atelier
>he doesn't study in some comunity college
>he doesn't pay for live drawing classes in some shitty cultural town center
>he doesn't pay a better artists to train him
no nigger stop.
you're seriously deluded if you think drawing in your basement is the most optimal way to study and improve.

>>2634808
This may be old af but it does prove one thing. In the past when I'd shown this >>2634655 image I'd suggested that it was possible that the "Educators" category included artists-as-teachers (as this guy >>2634673 similarly suspected), but this image shows that this isn't the case, as art teachers are lumped into the "Artist" category after all.

>>2634942
You can stop writing novels, as no one here is advocating taking on massive debt to go to art school.

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>>2634951
I do go to an atelier though lol

I am a big proponent of ateliers, apprenticeships and online courses as an alternative to art schools. People misinterpret me bashing art schools as hard as I do as if I'm trying to promote the idea of rejecting art education entirely. No, I'm promoting the idea of rejecting debt in most circumstances, and I'm for potential students being provided with the contextual information they may need to make an informed decision regarding a perilous subject.

If you're European and getting tithed 30% of your income and paying a 25% VAT on everything you buy for the rest of your life to get your 'free college' then by all means do your due diligence and find a local school that's right for you, but because half of the users of this site are american I am compelled to dissuade anyone that has the misfortune of mentioning art school near me from making a hasty and uninformed decision if I can help it.

>>2634976
>le taxes are bad maymay
lmao retard kys.

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>>2634979

>>2634987
>free healthcare
>free college
>free firefighters
>free infraestructure
>free roads
>free police
>welfare
>how is the goverment going to pay for it

>>2634976
Literally no one here is advocating taking on massive debt though, so who are you arguing with? In fact several people who have posted in support of art schools have explicitly said it isn't worth tons of debt.

>>2634989
We have 5 of 7 of those things; if as many of the people in your community were morbidly obese troglodytes as mine are you wouldn't want to pay for other people's healthcare, either. To say nothing of having other people's liberal arts degrees as part of your "social contract".

>>2634999
>who are you arguing with

The people that fail to separate the school apparatus from the education itself.

>no one here is advocating taking on massive debt

No one's advocating it, and yet to attend school in the u.s. that's what it takes. Because the likelihood of any given OP being from Swedenistan or any of the other nordic countries where everything's free and comes with a side of sand pee-pee is slim (http://www.4chan.org/advertise), OP might as well have sent me a formal invitation.

>>2635013
spend some time on the flag boards and you'll see america only makes 50% of this page population.

>>2635013
People here can control their habbits due to education and advocating of healthy lifestyle

Enjoy your burgers burgerlander

>>2635013
I'm an American who went to college for free. All I had to do was give half a shit in high school (scholarships for incoming freshman) and focus on my art once I got to college (scholarships for soph/Jr./Sr.). If I were poor or a minority, I could have found additional funding (had I needed it). Was it as prestigious an institution as Yale or Slade? No, but that sort of pretentious aesthetic philosophy gets shit in here anyway. But I did have access to all of the art facilities I needed (and more), hands on instruction for art forms I never would have dreamt at getting into at home, a creative environment to cross-pollinate and compete in, years of focused study, and lots of honest critiques from more experienced artists.

There are lots of situations where someone can pay for higher education in the arts, even in America.

>>2635035

With how effortless posting is, I'm not about to assume that someone inquiring about school is either not an american, or happens to be one that has access to the rare free-ride scholarship. I get rock hard on even the slightest potential of having cock-blocked a shit school like SAIC or the Slade from preying on another naive kid. I also feel that the prevalence of self-taught (or rather "no degree") artists both working formally in various industries and as freelancers is contextual information that shouldn't be kept from any potential students, even whom would otherwise be making a well-informed decision with regards to what school they've ultimately chosen.

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all schools are shams . there all the same they don't care about you or your talent , you don't need them fuckem and build your own job off your own talent. bitch.

>>2635137
>I get rock hard on even the slightest potential of having cock-blocked a shit school like SAIC or the Slade from preying on another naive kid
ah, well carry on with your crusade then

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>>2635196
Thanks for your understanding.

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>>2634290
Im curious, post some drawings so we can see what art school is doing/did for you.

>>2635389
not that anon, but don't be a fag. posting your work is not a prerequisite for having an opinion, it's just an opportunity to ignore their arguments and shit on their work.

also post ur work

>>2635397
It's not about that, I just want to see what it is that caused him to make this thread.

>>2635411
what's that got to do with his work?

>>2635397
>posting your work is not a prerequisite for having an opinion

If your "opinions" can't come through in your work, what makes you think you have an opinion worth listening to?

>>2635415
Everything

>>2635451
you might have a point, won't be sure until u post ur work