What is the actual toxicity level of /ic/ and does being a hard

>>2497008
It reminds me a lot of /a/ the last time I went there, around 2012-2013. This is in term to the level of elitism and average degree of assholery expressed by the typical Anon.

>does being a hard ass on somebody actually help them get better?
For some people it might. Anger can be a good tool to motivate people enough to get off their ass and do something.

If harsh comments make you quit then maybe quitting is the best thing for you. Giving up isn't always a bad idea.

>>2497018
>Giving up isn't always a bad idea.

If you're a bitch with no self-esteem, getting butthurt at the internet, suicide isn't always a bad idea.

Otherwise, if you really wanna improve, quitting is the stupidest thing you can do.

>>2497008
I feel like when somebody gives a non-constructive, shitty critique here (or anywhere really.) they're doing it because they feel bad about their own work.

Not 100% of the time but sometimes it's painfully obvious

>>2497008
>he hasn't seen whiplash

>toxicity level
at least we're not like the fucktarded gaylords on sleepycabin

http://sleepycabin.com/audio/sleepycast-27/

>>2497036
>http://sleepycabin.com/audio/sleepycast-27/
What the fuck am I listening to.

File: b-booyah.png (74KB, 500x541px) Image search: [Google]

74KB, 500x541px

I look at it like this: Instead of getting asspats and false praise on places like dA and reddit, I'd rather deal with someone tearing me a new one on my art. That's what gets you better, not sugarcoated comments.

The biggest part is to know how to filter the shitposts, which you can do pretty quickly.

>>2497008
The problem is that most of the criticism sends people into the autism death spiral.
You start feeling as if your work is never good enough and you slowly fade as your passion gets sucked dry from the ambition to attain perfection.

>>2497033
Also, this guys post.
Watch Whiplash

/ic/ is self destructive if you take it too seriously.

>>2497045
>>2497046
>>2497050

Every post has been good so far. I'm really glad it didn't derail with the first post like when one Anon asked how to market himself.

I'll go download the movie now, actually.

>post wip
>gets shat on by some guy
>has no real recommendations on how to fix it
>vague critiques
>just thinks my piece is shit
Th-thanks anon

>>2497036
>>2497036
wew

The problem isn't that people are "mean" on /ic/.

The problem is that people have an idea of what art is supposed to be, or a conception of the way things are supposed to be done, and are more interested in proving themselves right or winning an argument than in giving helpful, practical advice.

And they will scream and yell these opinions and tear down anyone who disagrees with them. From this you get people who:

1. Are fanatically opposed to photobashing.
2. Hate Concept Artists.
3. Declare that Cintiqs are a "toy" for rich people and that real artists use Intuos.
4. Tear down established, successful artists, claiming to see anatomical errors that simply aren't there.
5. Speak with an unearned level of confidence, thereby misleading people who are too young or inexperienced to see through their nonsense.

Like that poor fool who actually listened to /ic/ and wouldn't use photo elements or 3-d models, painting everything by hand, until he actually got into the concept art world and realized that literally everyone is using photos, because the point of concept art is to convey information to designers, not to make pretty pretty pictures. But /ic/ is too stupid to realize that.

File: 1461250228591.png (758KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

758KB, 1280x720px

/ic/ is a pussy cat, a bunch of jellyfishes and bucket of crabs it serves to test how much talent you have and how badly you want to learn despite all these crabs stepping over each other that are all after the same piece of morsel.

If you honestly let these snibety snabs make you feel like you want to quit I'm going to be honest with you maybe Art wasn't for you as you've got to want it bad. Really bad.

When I was in highschool I was in talented art. I was noticeably better than the rest of my classmates. I don't even know why they were considered "talented". I became comfortable with my talents and did not understand the mistakes I was making. I came here and people shit on everything I post. Now I'm passable but not amazing. This site is at the core of my improvements over the past years. Only shitty thing is that I've out grown the shit tear phase so I don't really get comments unless I ask for them hence I kind of wish I got bashed more.

>>2497134
>When I was in highschool I was in talented art. I was noticeably better than the rest of my classmates. I don't even know why they were considered "talented". I became comfortable with my talents and did not understand the mistakes I was making.
Yeah, being stuck in an ouroboros of praise really sucks.

As great as being surrounded by surrounded by supporting friends and family is, the only thing it really cultivates is stasis.

I probably would have never tried to get better at art if I didn't browse the internet and see other artists at each others throats.

>does being a hard ass on somebody actually help them get better?

No

>What is the actual toxicity level of /ic/
No scale goes that high.

Here the way you present yourself tends to really affect how well you're received. Humility helps a lot. People mostly get shat on when they're overly confident about their skill level or repeatedly ignore critique. There are also very bitter, jealous nobodies that resent other people's success. Recognizing the difference helps.

I probably post a couple times a week, but when I do I always try to be helpful or make it pretty clear what help I'm looking for. I've been visiting 4chan since late '06. There's a lot of shit here that you have to learn to filter out if you want to do anything other than waste your time. On /ic/ it's easy enough for a person to demonstrate their credibility with a red-line or thoughtful post. Most don't because it isn't worth the effort.

Some people respond to Bob Ross and some people respond to R. Lee Ermey. If the later motivates you /ic/ might be worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TNhS81w4bM

>>2497008
I can tell you it hasn't made me better, maybe even held me back, because negativity doesn't really motivate me, it just makes me angry and want to get away. Somewhere along the line i stopped reading 95% of the posts, because it's all either childish blabber or pure trolling. I just use this place to vent now and i know that i became part of the problem.

>>2497008

There is a huge misconception on /ic/ that giving feedback to someone is all about pointing out all the flaws in a piece. This is only half true. Equally important, and sometimes even more so, is pointing out what the person is doing right. Not because you have to pander to the artist's fragile ego, but because doing so gives him direction and increased self awareness. Everyone can spot flaws but it takes skill to be able to see potential in a piece that is generally technically flawed.

Also, it is obvious that a lot of people are unecessary meanspirited in their delivery because hey let's face it, taking out your frustrations on a anonymous board sometimes feel great. I've had many teachers, online and offline, and the best ones have always been very blunt in the way they have critiqued me. Blunt, straightforward as fuck, but never mean. I know that it's so easy to get dragged down into the mud but I encourage everyone to aspire to be above that.

Ultimately I think it comes down to the poster's intentions. Are you giving a critique because you want to help and learn something in the process, or are you giving a "critique" because you have some negativity in your system that needs to get out? If it is the latter, take a deep breath and punch a pillow or something instead. Faggot.

>>2497025
>if you really wanna improve
i bet he implied that quitting is good if you do not want to improve, or really draw for this matter.

>>2497031
Show your work, smartass.

>>2497008
Telling someone he is shit is easy, they are the equivalent of people doing no studies or anything, but just doodling every other month.

>>2497398
Your post doesnt make any sense.

I appreciate using a picture with a kid in the OP

I feel like lately /ic/ hasn't been "toxic" enough desu

>>2497410
Fuck you, asshole.

>>2497411
When I read this I heard it in Arnold Schwarzenegger's voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuUqpZgHiEE

>>2497410
same

>>2497215
This.

>>2497008
it's never worse than /3/

>>2497008
>toxicity
Why would you use this term, unless you're a tumblrcunt?

Anyway, people seem to have forgotten why anonymity is a good thing and simply use it as an excuse to act like assholes. I blame this on the mods, who are virtually not present and have failed to set any standards or keep long term shitposters under control.

The original advantage that /ic/ had over other art boards, was the fact that people giving criticism could be brutally honest, without suffering a hit to their reputation, or having their comments come back to haunt them.
In other words, people who were in complete denial over their actual skill level could get the necessary level of criticism and insults thrown their way, without the person giving the criticism being held accountable. It was the antithesis to DeviantArt.

>>2497008
Almost everyone on /ic/ is a 20 something who's probably American that thinks they ''know things other people don't want to hear'' and ''know how the world really is'', but they're actually just close-minded edgy retards. Also being hard on someone depends entirely on the person

>>2497215
but how will they cum if they're punching a pillow instead of insulting someones dreams

>>2497398
What about that anon's post triggered you?

>>2497741
I'm pretty sure 'toxic behavior' has been used before Tumblr. Stop giving them so much credit.

>>2497008
Positive constructive support is of course the best feedback you can get.
But most people get nothing or even worse a "nice job champ" from someone who knows nothing, and in this scenario getting shit on by a d/ic/k is better.

>>2497819
Do you think about America often?

>>2497008
I'm a beginner and I've been a regular on /ic/ since I started drawing ~4 months ago.

I can honestly say the tough love approach is the best way to learn. I think every beginner wants positive feedback on the shit they post, but in my exp it only serves to flatter my ego, strengthen my dunning kruger and bring back my fear of failing (cause I think I'm so good).

I believe a shitstorm brings about changes faster than positive encouragement.

>> learn
>> 4chan

kek

>>2498548
No, just something I've noticed over the years, America tends to be more conservative when it comes to art than most of the rest of the world, which is weird because it's also the country that gave us abstract Expressionism in the 50's.

>>2497819
>generalizing an entire country
>generalizing an entire generation
>calling others close minded

huehuehuehue

>>2498613
>what are trends?

>>2498888 This was meant for that

>>2498811

>>2497138
It's like reading a post by myself

>>2498893
>>2498888
>what is you are a massive faggot

>>2497008
There's a difference between the harshness that you might find from a good art teacher, and the elitist mentality of 4chan.

On the one hand, the harshness that many of us need (not only to push us but also to toughen us up because the art world is vicious af, like as catty as the fashion world).
A harsh teacher means no one is sugar coating what they're saying about your work, which you need in a crit, which means that you aren't getting false info about how something might be right when it's not.

On the other hand, 4chan will just tell you "it's shit" or "loomis" rather than actual crits.
A good crit would point out an area, why it doesn't work, how you might fix it or show you why it's off.

In my crits in my art class I gained a new sense of sight, being able to notice mistakes that had become hard to see after working on it for so long because my classmates could see it immediately.

If no one would comment on anything on yours it meant it was probably too fucked up to be able to say anything nice, so they'd rather not say anything at all.

Etc.

4Chan just tells you loomis (which, while yes everyone should do loomis, if Person A is already studying loomis and what not, and just wanted to know their progress after studying for 5+ hours, then a proper crit would be far more beneficial to them.

People just like to let loose on 4chan and say the kind of mean spirited comments (which may be true, most of the time the art DOES suck or have something glaringly wrong about it that the artist can't see) that you can't get away with in a class or on more "public" art websites.

Especially if you happen to be a fine artist, which has a lot of those bullshit kind of art pieces or installations that just make you hate other artists (you all know what I mean unless you are one of those artists, in which case you're retarded and won't last long on here anyway).

>>2498942
(cont)

So what do I ultimately think?
I think 4chan is a good place to gather resources, to sometimes get a good crit if you're at an intermmediate level, but not really a good enviornment for beginning artists or people without a thick skin who can read between the lines.

d/ic/ks are basically if your art teacher had tenure and literally didn't give a fuck anymore. If he could just tell you you were retarded for not grasping a concept yet. It is every artist without a filter because no one is going to think less of them offline because they said the beginning artist's work looks shitty.


I disagree with that part btw. I think everyone is too harsh on obvious beginners who need a little direction and are probably overwhelmed trying to search for it elsewhere. It's easier to post anonymously when you're first starting out but it's also terrifying because everyone else is anonymous too.

In short: Have a thick skin, don't take everything here seriously and you can learn a lot and find a lot of resources to help you learn more.

>>2498945
resources: yes

learning: basically this >>2498613

>>2498922
Fantastic argumentative skills friend.

File: 1422240498583.jpg (51KB, 500x353px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 500x353px

>>2497008
When I first came here, /ic/ helped me bread down my ego when it comes to art.

It's also toughened me up when it comes to criticism.

Yes, there are unhelpful faggots here that don't give actual criticism, but there also helpful faggots here that do give criticism.

>>2499191
In other words, you gotta break them down before you rebuild them.

>>2497215
underrated post

It is worth posting even through a thousand shitposts if it grants you one helpful critique

>>2497099
Underrated

>>2497008
Being a hard-ass only works for some people, and it only works when the person in charge knows what they are doing, which isn't the case when you have an anonymous board filled with beginner and intermediate artists.

There have been no success stories as a result of /ic/'s community and mentality. The good artists here were good before they arrived, or got good independently from /ic/. In fact, most of the good artists who ever came here have since moved on after realizing just how toxic it is here (many were even chased away directly by personal attacks).

>>2497046
Oh god this is me with music. You fucking saved me from suicide!!!!!

I honesly really like coming here for crits because in real life all people give you are compliments. Compliments don't make me better at painting, crit does. I've also been painting long enough to know what advice is good advice because the foremost tthing that I've learned from ic is how to teach myself and ironicly the best way to teach yourself it to speak to peers. While Im several levels ahead of the average ic poster there are enough good people here to put me in my place and it doesn't take Reubens to give me a solid crit.

I've been doing competitive team activities throughout my life and the most important thing ive learned is that it's OK to point out mistakes. It doesn't just benefit one individual, but anyone witness to the critique. You need to hold yourself to a high standard and create your own self confidence because at the end of the day, the losing team doesn't get ice cream. The only ice they get is in a bag to put against their bruises.

I'm sure you people get triggered by sports analogies, but go fuck yourselves.

File: 01 Bob-Ross.jpg (611KB, 912x913px) Image search: [Google]

611KB, 912x913px

Why can't more people here be more like pic related?

No matter how unenthusiastic I feel about drawing or life in general, listening to this guy just cheers me right up

>>2501046
I liked it, anon.

>>2497036
Sleepycabin is the most embarassing failure ever concieved.
Those are newgrounds animators in their early 30s who never went beyond the macromedia flash phase they had when they were 14.
By their age classic animators had already finished a few motion pictures and those disgusting gen x fuckers still do nothing but pure shit

>>2497008
>What is the actual toxicity level of /ic/

Pretty toxic. But like 95% of anons here don't actually draw, they just sit on here and shit all over people who post stuff.

Here is an experiment you can do:

Find an actual professional artist who doesn't work in video games, so someone like Steve Huston, Chris Legaspi etc.

Take a sketch of theirs

Post it here saying it's yours

Watch anons shit all over it making things up about it that are wrong and tell you you're not going to make it and give up