Beginner Thread

>>2316119
I ask this on the last thread

>Beginner here, why do you guys suck loomis' dick? I don't understand why you guys worship him like he's a great artist or something. I mean he's good but there are better artist out there and you guys are just trying to make everyone draw like him instead of developing individual skills

>>2316123
sucking loomis' dick is just an /ic/ meme

>>2316123
because its not a quuestion but a statement.

>>2316123

Because his books are good instruction for beginners and you could download them for free legally at the time

>you guys are just trying to make everyone draw like him instead of developing individual skills

I'm sure your idea of 'individual skills' means drawing like shit and not practicing because you're fucking lazy and think you're 'developing a style'.

Everyone from fucking western comic artists, to fine artists, to manga illustrators, etc. have used Loomis' instruction successfully. Quit being a fucking idiot, shitheads like you poison the well for real beginners who actually want to learn get put off of Loomis because they've been given an excuse not to work through the books.

>>2316127

If you worked through Loomis you wouldn't be in the fucking beginner thread

>>2316211
With which Loomis book should i start?

>>2316211
I'm skeptical that manga illustrator uses loomis. Western comic artist and Japanese mangaka have completely opposite styles when compared to each other. When they try to delve into the medium of their counterpart the differences show dramatically. The japanese artists seem to all have the exact same style as each other, is that a product of the lack of loomis?

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Vilppu says he makes his students do this for 6 hours during his day class. I can't say im not intimidated by doing this for 6 hours, how will I find 6 hours worth of models?

>>2316211

Is going through one loomis book really enough to not be a beginner? I find it hard to believe that one book could be that all encompassing, esp fun with a pencil. It seems to focus on one aspect of drawing, and thats drawing people.

>>2316226
on youtube:
new master academy
croquis cafe

you gotta feel it

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help, before I move on?

>>2316227

There are several Loomis books, and if you really put the work in with them and practice there's more than enough in there to get you out of the beginner phase

Fun with a pencil is just to get you to start drawing simple faces, and get you used to the idea of construction. It's for totally raw beginners who don't understand construction.

>>2316219

It has absolutely nothing to do with style. You're not studying an artist's style in an instruction book, you're learning fundamental concepts for successful drawing. Just because you've learned how to properly construct the figure from a Loomis book doesn't mean you have to draw everything in a 60's commercial style. Think about it.

And yes, I've seen Loomis heads and whatnot from manga artists before. The good ones study realism, and Loomis gets around. /ic/ didn't conjure him out of thin air, people have been shilling him for years. Obviously if you learn to draw realistically from something like Loomis instead of just copying other artists and trying to replicate their style, you're going to set yourself apart.

If you think there hasn't been just as much shitty generic styled western comic art as there has been shitty generic manga stuff, you should probably take a closer look.

that feeling when you thought you were good and realize all your art friends are completely out of your league.
>what if they dont really like your artwork
>what if theyre just humoring the noobie
>all your professional art friends laugh at you behind your back
>or are annoyed when you try to speak to them

please tell me this is just me being an confident asshole and none of this is true.

>>2316253

What do you define as a beginner?

>>2316254
unconfident*

>>2316254

personally I think there is no such thing as art friends. people worse than me bore me to death, but if you have managed to surround yourself with artists better than you, you are doing it right.

if now on the other hand you were the top dog in your art-friends group and everyone sucked your dick nonstop for being so amazing, then that's a recipe for disaster because you will stagnate and become delusional.

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>>2316257
I feel like that happened when I was younger. I'm not as delusional anymore hopefully

Does the body look right? I feel like I made mistakes but can't see them

>>2316254

Spend more time drawing and less being an insecure faggot. None of your friends give a shit if you suck unless you're an idiot who doesn't listen to advice, or wanks on about your 'style'.

If I see a fat person at the gym consistently working out and really trying to get in shape, I don't laugh behind their back or joke about them. People respect the honesty and the effort. It's fun to wave your penis around because you're the coolest art guy, but it's stupid to think every relationship is built on the foundation of a dick measuring competition. Quick being egotistic and overly self conscious.

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Going through Peter Han and Alphonso Dunn videos. Comments/criticism welcome

how do i become a beginner

>>2316299
you BEGGING drawing

>>2316299
you begin

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anyone know of any good books on the essence behind what makes a terrifying monster? i would like to draw something that can cause a genuine sense of intimidation in the viewer.

now i'm not actually scared by the things that are posted on /x/ or by horror movies but some of them objectively (im using that term loosely. i just mean something like how we can naturally differentiate between cute and ugly) have a far greater 'terrifying factor' than what i've got.

>tl;dr how2spooky?

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>>2316299
i would recommend starting with basic shapes the same way you learned what the shapes looked like and what they were called from kids books.

but as the other people stated it, just fucking start.

how do i get better at proportions?

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>>2316307
Make the mouth bigger.

>>2316235

Is that clouds in the sky or something exploding in the distance? If that's the sky you need to fix that perspective, they should be going above you then curving over the horizon, not bursting from it in straight lines

Also the angles you've used for your fortress walls don't line up, pick a perspective and stick to it.

>>2316235
You have a problem similar to mine. Commitment issues. Afraid the thing with look bad when you finish it.

We should finish it first because it'll probably be good in the end.

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>>2316299

You start at the very beginning, it's a very good place to start.

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>>2316321
thank you for the tips.Did some fixing up with the perspective, and re-did the clouds. Was that the way you were talking about? curling around towards the horizon ?

>>2316323
Thank you, but I find tackling these problems in the process means that the outcome has a better look and feel to it. The fewer mistakes, the more involved I can get the viewer. And the last thing I want to do is polish my turd lol

>>2316335
It's looking better. that's not the exact way I meant but that's definitely an improvement. Bear in mind the horizon is stretching the whole way across the canvas, not just in the valley where you can see it, so you may have actually gone a touch too far with the curve.

Look at some pictures online where you can see clusters of clouds going toward the horizon, when they're above you, you can only see the bottom, and light passes through them in spots completely different to when they're near the horizon, when you're almost seeing them side-on, and the light / shadows change in the way they behave.

It's shaping up nicely, though. I like the way you're doing the torches, your colour choices for the light they're casting is really doing it for me in v2

>>2316337
thank you very much! I think I understand now with how you said it. I'll definitely apply right away!

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>>2316262
I'm done with this

>>2316361
>>2316362
>>2316364
>>2316365
>>2316366
>>2316368

For practice, do these all again but with thick, joined lines or even as black silhouettes with ink. You look as if you're stuck in "my style" and it's sketchy as fuck.

You gotta pin down drawing well before you stylize this much

>>2316371
Thanks for the advice.

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am i polishing a turd or should i continue?

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I never finish anything so I usually have nothing to post, so I guess I'll start posting sketching pages as I fill them out
Thoughts?

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trying to work on painting clothing. any advice?

>>2316400
Looks like my art 8 months ago

>>2316406
What's your art now?

>>2316119
I'm reading Dodson's "Keys to Drawing"
I want to learn to draw digitaly and also I want to be good with pencil and paper.
Should I stay with paper and pencil until I "get it" or do both simultaneously?

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She's a grey skin. That's nerd talk for Ork. Does her weird hunched over pose and overall anatomy look right.

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>>2316408
Made this yesterday

Keep polishing that turd. Then polish a new turd and more and more. Then you will be surrounded by the shiniest turds you can be proud of. It will help you practice for shining some gold. Even if it sucks, you're still practicing.

>>2316425
Anatomy is really broken

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>>2316433
the long arms and hunched body?

>>2316428
>>2316397

so what youre saying is my anatomy is a turd then?

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critique please

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Some nice mecha. Or maybe they're shitty.

>>2316435
those abs man

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Critique please

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>>2316449

>>2316499
Fuck it, here I go
>The cloth seems to cover the boobs seperately of the top
>What is all that black dots and then shine?
>The abs look like 3 anuses
>The crotch part is not centered correctly
>The fingers holding the padel are wrong, look at the curving one
>The hand on the thigh seems to clip through the leg
>What is up with those knees shine/black circle things
>The tooth is like a flat triangle

>>2316499
>>2316508
Keep being strong though, It's not horrible, even if I make it sound that way

>>2316505
Many thanks kind anon!

>>2316499
Find reference m8, maybe you want to draw a simple skeleton model first.

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Another page

>>2316426
Nice, I like it. What books / sources did you use? Right now I am mixing Hampton, Peter han and Scott Robertson

>>2316217
I think you start with fun with a pencil. I'm on like page 60.

w00t! half way there.

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>>2316508
>>2316499
better?

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>>2316511
>>2316516
>>2316558
This is what I was trying to do at first. How do I make it not suck?

>>2316559
>>2316558

stop treasuring this crap, its not worth fixing it, just strat over again instead

>>2316558

Just stop man, you were told those highlights looked terrible but you left them on. There is much more wrong with this than the few touch ups you did and you're avoiding drawing hands because you don't know how to

>>2316479
The right one is pretty nice. Chech Robertson's How to Draw.

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>>2316559
See >>2316565

Look m8, you have a good intention to make your work looks better but pls restart. I think you're trapped with your works which is beyond saving. Find reference, don't stare on it, copy it. My method if I wanna draw something when I have no clue about how to draw it is I copy 2 or 3 reference images till I'm sure it's safe for me to draw what I want to draw. Hell maybe you can ask some reference or help from /s/ or /d/eviants anon who have muscle fetish.

>>2316283
I like your rocks.

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Anyone do stupid exercises like this? Have you improved? I find it works out my shoulder.

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Would anyone be kind enough to redline/crit this?

What is it that is missing with these? They all look off. Is it the lack of shading/details for depth or are the propotions ass? ..both?

>>2316668
Honestly If you knew anything about line pressure you could save middle drawing and left drawing at the very least.

>>2316505
this is the type of redlines you end up with when you dont want people to hang out for having made a bad redline

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/mu/ regular here, give me some advice

>>2316681
...oh?! I didn't even consider the lines at all. Thank you.

>>2316685
Stop drawing symbols and chickenscratching, study forms and do confident lines
You will find info about this on the sticky

>>2316685
I'm feeling a decent 3 to strong 4.

>>2316692
Is symbols really that bad, the loomis books is all about drawing symbols to form the right structure

>>2316700
It is if you ever wanna improve your visual library doing life drawings

>>2316700

When you are talking about symbol drawing you typically refer to the symbols that are more or less universal (like the eye is a almond shape with two circles in the middle and straight lines around the edge for eyebrows) not learned shorthands from your visual library aquired through studying and understanding.

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>>2316681
More like this?

>>2316685
I was going to mock you for the proportions then I remembered he actually looks like that.

>>2316397

Are you using a reference? If you're not using a reference, you should be using a reference. There is no circumstance where you shouldn't be looking for references.

>>2316613

There's nothing stupid about it, and if it's 'working out' your shoulder you need to loosen up because you're doing it wrong. Tension makes for bad technique. You should be doing the rest of Han's Dynamic Drawing exercises too. Ovals and shit.

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I'm doing some overlaps. Anything especially on this page?

>>2316683
yeah it's fucking awful but im tabletless at the moment and if i didn't bullshit around with my mouse in ms paint then no one else would have contributed any advice for him at all.

it sucks? yes.
gave him a basic idea? i think so

i figured i'd give it a shot and i knew it was gonna be shit once i started but i just wanted to try to be nice with what i have to work with. it was either bullshit redlines or to write it out in text. i took the opportunity to give myself a little bit of practice using just a mouse. i wouldn't dare attempt to draw a detailed contour outline this way. i just wanted to place some pointers in certain areas and also saw what i could do when it came to making that branch with ms paint curves.

i would ask that someone else maybe giving it their own go if they have a stylus handy or are actually good with a mouse to give this guy a better visual reference rather than just "pointers."

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Just beginning loomis and figure drawing with vilppu. Gonna take a look at bridgman too. I really wanna stay on track so ill probably be bothering people a lot.

Is it ok to use a circle tool for drawing heads? It seems in the examples that loomis has used one. If not, can you tell me why?

>>2316742
nevermind, I was imaging my own version of your piece with me fixing the lineart with thickness, I was wrong.

>>2316840
and a straight line tool for the lines. is that ok?

>>2316844
part of learning is learning how to control your hand, so no, its not fine.

>>2316851

alright thanks for the explanation.

New Masters Academy had a collection of Vilppu gesture drawing lessons for free on their promotion youtube channel but they are gone. Anyone saved them?

>>2316283
Keep that shit up, dude. You're definitely on the right track.

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Proportions are off, going to have to re-draw. But wondering how you'd go about rendering this? Like to keep it as simple as possible.

>>2316283
whats the video about the rocks?

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Haven't posted in a while, been reading drawing on the right side of the brain. Not that it shows.

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>>2317100

>>2316397
I think it looks rather nice. Just a bit more refining and smoothing and fixing the length of the limbs then you got an above average beginner full body drawing. Nobody is a professional at the beginning. I am far away from being average myself.

>>2317080
>But wondering how you'd go about rendering this? Like to keep it as simple as possible.
Depends what style you want and what medium you are using. Try finding an artist whose style you like and try to render it how they might.

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>>2317100
gonna post some exercises

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>>2316119

>>2317080
Manga Hawk Eyes.

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>>2317120
Been obsessing over shortstacks for the past 2 weeks

>>2317122
cute

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why is editing so hard?

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das it for my recent shit.

>>2316359
She has no nipples.
>>2317122
kawaii

>>2316211
>>2316123
>Everyone from fucking western comic artists, to fine artists, to manga illustrators, etc. have used Loomis' instruction successfully.

If you look a interviews with katsuhiro otomo you can see little Loomis head sketches on the bottom of his notes.

>>2316577
>>2317055

Thanks guys, will do a few more pages and move on

>>2317083

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7O7-EU4bgg

>>2317119
Ah, I see. I'll attempt that. Thanks for the insight.

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>>2317126
you sir are a loli lover. they are litterally the same thing except now people will hate. Embrace the loli my friend

>>2317206
>that disgusting anatomy

>>2317209
what anatomy?

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>>2317206

Technique question:

Any big reasons to avoid using 2D animation stills (TV + film) as practice references, particularly with respect to rendering?

Meaning: is it safe for a beginner's purposes to assume statements like:

>a single frame of animu approximates manga

and so on are factually accurate, generally speaking?

>>2317226
It's fine to use in many cases, but sometimes frames taken out of context will be distorted or weird looking because it was meant to be seen for a fraction of a second as a part of a movement. Use your judgement.

>>2317228
My main concern is lighting, because I've noticed that lots of 2D animation features stuff I don't see, or don't notice, elsewhere, like... block (?) shadows, simple/contiguous/connected regions that characteristically appear in places like the jaw extending all the way from ear to ear and stay there regardless of head movement.

I dunno enough to know if something like that's an animation shortcut or viable on its own.

>>2317232
Most animations, depending how simplistic it's done, they tend to give characters their own light/value in order to create the illusion that the character is in 3D space. Even if the lighting is different, the character in the focal point may have a different light all together, so that way said character is presented to be more believable rather than flat.

>>2316123
>>2316227

Loomis is just another word for learn your fundamentals of

1.perspective
2. proportions
3. form
4. and understand what you're drawing(in this case anatomy)

It doesn't have to be loomis, that's just a meme here to tell you you haven't drawn or studied enough

>>2316219
Japanese artists definitely don't have the same style as eachother, how do you look at One piece, Boku no hero, Berserk, vagabond and many more, and say they have the same style?

Either way any well drawn manga will have their fundamentals down

>>2316309
this. i learned alot doing basic shapes over these months, wish i listen in highschool about this.

>>2317226
what do you mean use it as reference for rendering

>>2316309
if you can draw shapes at any angle you can draw anything from your imagination with enough practice and studying

>>2316335
look at your pic in black and white, do the values of the torch look like fire/light to you? They're not dark enough at all

So here's a girl casually holding a rapier.

Any critique about the arm and hand? A part of me is saying something is wrong and a part of me is saying that it's completely fine.

What does /ic/ think?

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>>2317260
Whoops

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>>2317244
Had to post from phone while doing a siterip on a banned IP for another anon. That was my shitty shorthand for shading et al. Back on desktop now, so I'll elaborate.

As far as I can tell, there are three basic techniques for understanding the lighting topology of a character design:

========================================
(1) sculpt physical mockup, stick model in lightbox
(2) make digital 3D mockup, grab renders
(3) have savant-like abilities of visualization
========================================

(3) is just the Feynman algorithm and therefore useless to mere mortals.

(2) is used by a lot of pros, but time-consuming and just sorta missing the forest for the trees given the drawing level I'm at. "premature optimization is the root of all evil" and all that.

(1) would take me longer to master than the drawing itself.

Then there's the ever-popular:

========================================
(4) just guess until your fuck-ups reach acceptable levels
========================================

I don't go for that, though. I suck at the manual side of drawing right now, but I'm analytical as fuck.

So my thought was this:

What if I just treat high-end 2D animation as a fifth option?

There are better, bespoke alternatives for general figure drawing practice, but nothing nearly as comprehensive (that I can think of) in terms of practical lighting study.

But only if 2D animation tends to obey the same basic lighting rules as illustration, and I'm not positive about that...

>>2316401
good taste in vidya, but I think you should focus on anatomy and gesture before working on fabrics. alot of the folds of the body reflect on the folds of the clothes, and it's just not reading well at the moment, since you dont seem to know much about anatomy. Keep trying buddy, do some studies and gestures then go back at it

>>2317268
I still fully don't understand what you mean but there are definitely some well drawn anime and most of them follow rules of light generally...

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>>2317262
body doesnt look right

>>2316283
Neat, but some note:
The contour lines go into a pattern. Reduce the amount of contour lines you use, and spread them out. Make sure they are not checkered.

Also, be sure to be making very complex shapes. You want this totally fucked up and strange shape placed in front of you, and there think about it, break it up. The entire purpose of the exercise, is so that when you see objects in real life, you've already trained your thought processes to break it apart.

aside from Fun with a Pencil, what other book does Loomis go over drawing clothes?

>>2317278
Simplest wording I can manage:

Can you get an accurate sense of character lighting for illustration -- where highlights and shadows should be, what sort of shapes and value gradients they should take under various lighting scenarios -- from good 2D animation?

From this thread so far I think the answer I'm getting is "yes"

Speaking of animu, why is it that most animu characters faces have puffy cheeks and their eyes tend to be far apart from their nose?

>>2317330
eyes are big but not really far apart unless its just a really shitty anime, and idk about puffy cheeks do u have an example

>>2317284

Yeah you're right. I've switched to brown paper now as it was recommended in the demo videos so I'll do some on there with your suggestions, thanks

>>2316426
I really like this one anon

>>2316692

>I know jargon and buzzwords but can't offer any real advice

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>>2317080

You need to work on how to see objects, not just how to draw them.

Try to think of things as round and three dimensional. Look at the direction the lines flow and curve around the object. Break absolutely everything down into simplified shapes before even thinking about adding any details.

I did a quick sketch of this myself to give you an idea (also I love hawks too).

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any got any good simple resources to due with light value? I'm really amateur when it comes to that. my goal is to make a piece with multiple people and multiple light sources of difference color but I don't know where to begin.

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>>2317484
Wow, this is amazing. Thanks a lot, anon. I was usually lost as to what to do once the outline was completed. I'll re-attempt this again with your advice once I'm out of class. Thanks again!

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Doing loomis heads still. Am I on the right track? Are the proportions reasonable? I feel paranoid of continuing without realizing I didn't get the previous fundamentals right. I want to draw this at various 3/4 angles next.

>>2317591
it's too long. Remember that E is the middle of the face

>>2317627

Thanks I'll fix that.

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First still life artwork. Many more to come as I continue different exercises.

>>2317631
look up perspective

>>2317631

Take a look at some perspective. Try the book perspective made easy by Earnest R norling. I think you will get a lot better from reading that.

>>2317631
This one is two month old.

>>2317633
>>2317636
Alright, will check out

>>2317637
Wrote the wrong date, my mistake.

>>2317737

Thanks for the nightmares...

>>2317433
Those jargon words are real advice, look at the sticky or fuck off

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Guys i listened to the "read the wiki" posts and tried to study loomis, but i remembered i cant learn from books, my highschool teacher said something about "saying but not thinking" in my head or some shit like that. Apparently it makes me good at speeches but bad at retaining information from text. So anyways, since im a special snowflake, what are some good video series i can watch to get me started. I wanna become a super weeb and draw hentai of obscure characters

>>2317770
you're making excuses not to learn from the best materials available to you, art books are picture heavy as shit nigger, it's easy as balls. look at pretty picture, read pretty caption, copy pretty picture (repeat as needed), learn pretty concept.

>>2317770
There isn't any. You're basically fucked.

>>2317770
You're on a text based board right now, stop making excuses

>>2317774
>implying i learned anything on here

>>2317823
It's obvious you have no idea how the human brain works. Do your studies. You can avoid them if you please, but don't complain as to why it always looks like shit.

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alright im having problems with this. im drawing this from imagination and i cant figure out how the fuck do to the shoulder/arm/neck arm on the side thats on the ground. i do realize theres tweaking all around that needs to be done but i just cant figure this area out. even with references.

>>2317829
draw out the skeleton of the figure and use your anatomy book for reference on how force is applied.

>>2317836
but i dont have one of those. which one should i get?

>>2317840
Huh? Sounds like you're getting ahead of yourself with that drawing. You should learn some anatomy before jumping onto the subject. What has your anatomy studies been so far?

>>2317841
well i do have hogarth, dynamic anatomy, and read through it but that just goes over proportions, descriptions of muscle groups, etc. nothing about describring different poses and how to deal with perspective and such

i did >>2316397 and i can copy from reference pretty fuck well. i can dump a whole bunch if you want. im just trying to make the jump to drawing figure from imagination now

what makes this pose tricky is that my view is from a little above instead of straight on. so the neck SHOULD(?) over lap a bit the arm should be 'tucked' and 'smashed'? the shoulder should be flush with the ground? im hesitant to let this one go because the rest is pretty solid

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some stuff I've done in the past month or so. Nothing too fancy.

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>>2317846
character concepts i started working on too.

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>>2317847

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and then of course, the obligatory fanart

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why does my non-constructed chickenscratch shit look better than the stuff I attempted to do with loomis

>>2317854
Because you're not practicing enough doing confident lines?

Why might it be that constructed eyes still look symbolic? How should I emphasize the volume of the lids?

>>2317335
Well, there more far apart than usual. It differs from anime to anime. Some anime, characters would give a "crossed eyed" look to see something in front of them. I believe this happens simply because their eyes are so far apart from their nose.

Also, most girls, when trying to be "kawaii" or whatever have puffy cheeks on their face like tweety bird (but not AS exaggerated

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Okay, I just finished this. Not bad, but there are some things that I'd correct now.
Thoughts?

im a shit
A SHIT

Is there any more info in regards to Proko's Structure Basics video, or perhaps more examples of this method somewhere? The video is nice, but it felt like it was missing a lot. Was hoping he'd provide more examples on animals or whatever, but even his prem vids don't offer much.

>>2317959
prokos premium video :^)

>>2317854
disregard >>2317865 its because your brain chooses the most appropriate line so youre folling yourself into believing its better. Additionally, theres a luck component to everything.

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Any suggestions on how to fix this up before I attempt to render it? I'm not really feeling this right now for some reason.

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>>2318006
Fuck. Here's the sketch at the proper size.

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this is what happens when you forget loomis

>>2317983
Prem vids on the subject offer almost nothing more. Was wondering if there was someone else who went further in depth on structure. Seems like a very interesting subject.

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dumping studies; please critique

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>>2318091
from old study thread

>>2318091
i recognise that gay bird job

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I feel like the main body didnt need the swirls??

>>2317484
Any tutorials or perhaps something to look into to read up and find out how to simplify the things the way you did? Love the approach, would like to see it the way you did.

>>2318104
yeah i forgot to scan the image in colour and since i only really paid attention to the colours of the bird the idea got lost.

should i upload a coloured version?

How do I use references for creating my own creations instead of just making an exact copy of the reference? Like not directly copying the ref how I see it?

I give up. Drawing people is a fucking nightmare. The only thing that I can seem to draw well are assorted animals, lions, Zebras, wolves, etc, but drawing people is just fucking impossible.

>>2318144
Draw your idea to the best of your ability. When you hit a wall or are unsure of how something works/looks then use a reference to patch the holes.

>>2318146
If you drew people as much as you complained you might get somewhere. Get to it and stick with it.

>>2318152
If you drew as much as you gave out shit advise you might have become Pablo Picasso.

But look where you are now.

>>2318159
>>2318152 has a point though, albeit worded harshly. avoiding things you're bad at is no way to get better. no need for toxicity here.

>>2318159
But I do draw.

You should too, get back to work.

>>2318148
Okay that makes a bit more sense, thank you. Any other advice on using references without replicating them?

>>2318171
I had an infographic detailing how someone showed their philosophy and how they would use references but I don't have it on me. One thing that I do recall though is to do a lot of studies of things pertaining to an idea you have, do your "research" by learning about what you're gonna be drawing ahead of time by studying things on their own.

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Re-drew this a few times, not sure how to approach it. Trying to break it down as much as possible, but I'm not sure how that works. How would you simplify something with all these feathers in the way? I know what I have here is obviously very wrong, but how do I fix it?

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>>2316119
I'm trying to transition into anime, I used to draw mongolian comics, but those have gotten bad since the taiwanese economy has failed. I don't really support isis but they aren't that bad.

Would really appreciate a redline. Thanksss

>>2318204
fuck off to your shitty thread

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>>2318129
im sorry anon for reffering to memes you dont know, pic related

>>2318204
this is beyond bait

>>2318207
>>2318221
at least offer feedback if youre going to be mean.

>>2318224
see >>2318221

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>>2318183
Considering your level, you should probably use animals with easier, more visible solid forms.
Alternatively, if you want to stick with animals with long fur or plumes, study their skeletons first, so that you have an idea of what's going on beneath. Once you understand the underlying form, applying the plumage should be easier. Group the feathers in chunks as much as possible.
I probably fucked up the proportions here but it should give you an idea.

>>2318225
just because its not very good doesnt mean im trolling.

>>2318226
Thanks, anon. This gives a very strong idea. I knew this was going to be a challenge for me, but didn't expect to hit a wall this hard. After that drawing, I've gone ahead and downloaded several skull angles just to study it a bit more and see how I should approach it.

In this case, what animals do you recommend I look at for more visible solid forms? In the mean time, I'll attempt a re-draw with this info provided.

>>2318228
no, you are trolling because you are pretending to be serious about what you just drew

>>2318204
I know this is bait, but look up any side shot of any anime character you like and compare it to this abomination of yours to see what you should do differently.

>>2318233
Why the fuck would I go to the beginners thread and fuck up on purpose on i/c literally everyone is mean here. Makes absolutely no sense.

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>>2318234
is this better?

>>2318235
>i/c
>legit

>>2318236
yes

>>2318236

Believe it or not this helped me. I was wondering how I would construct the head of a minotaur and it pointed me in the right direction

>>2318229
Insects are probably the most straightforward to analyze, as their name suggests they are neatly divided in clear sections. For animals with fur, the shorter fur the better (as longer fur/plumage makes it harder to spot the underlying form as you saw here). Fur is also a problem because it usually comes with color patterns which again mask the underlying form, so beware of that too.

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Hey, could you guys critique my latest work?

My thoughts:

I think I did well on the evergreen.
The clouds worked out better for me, even if they look like shit they were easier too paint - apparently adding a bit of liquid white/paint thinner helps clouds become more cloudy and less muddy, though I also tried using much less phthalo blue for the sky this time around.
Mountains were ehh, and the background tree line at the foot of the mountain had a bad cut out in the middle, but otherwise okay-ish. But still not what I'd call good.
The tree on the right is a bit too translucent, and looking at the trunk it looks too angular and the shading's not right. I dunno what happened, but I couldn't get the trunk to look like the evergreen's.
I don't know what to think about the foreground. Looks okay to me, but I know I can use work. I started with a bit too much sky and the bottom was a bit cramped.

Also, again, I really need to do better pictures than just a tablet camera with shitty lighting.

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>>2318241
Here's the re-attempt. Still messy, but I'll go on and try Insects or perhaps less hairy hawks.

By the way, how did you see the eagle's skull the way you did? I know it's at an angle that should be more "3D", but I just couldn't for the life me grasp that, even with your example. How can I open my eyes more on the subject?

>>2318245
>(2.89 MB, 5312x2988)

i wouldnt call that an attempt

When are new artists allowed to post? Should I have a certain about of time logged before I post my art or what?

>>2318252
Hey, I'm >>2318242.
That's my fourth painting ever. Worst case scenario, I'll get chastised for sucking on an anonymous online forum. Oh no, my precious ego.

Post what you have, hope someone is doing similar things and can offer you pointers. Also read the sticky.

>>2318245
I'm not even sure I got the right angle with the redline to be honest. It could probably be rotated a bit more with the front more towards the viewer.
Studying perspective and practicing with the aim of depicting only forms/bones will help visualize stuff in 3D in the long run. Don't expect overnight results though.

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>>2318012
Alright, I've started rendering it, how's it going so far?

>>2318254
Of course. Nice guess.
In that case, I'll focus more on perspective while I attempt to draw insects and what not. Thanks for the feedback.

>>2318242
cool; got sort of a misty vibe

watch the tree on the right though, the oranges and yellows sort of washed together and it ends up looking flat and faded out.

i'd suggest having more contrast between the darkest oranges and brightest yellows (judging by the rest of the scene, probably darkening/reddening the foliage in shade would be better than brightening the yellows) as well as better defining 'clumps' of foliage to improve the overall depth

how does one actually study someone's art?

There is a certain artist I like and I want to be able to draw like they do.

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Tried doing the study from two threads ago.

Any areas I could improve in?

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Just started doing gestures. Been an artist for a while but wanna learn the figure now. How am I doing?

>>2318261
That looks like the thing it looks like

>>2318166

Post work. I need a laugh.

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Lost interest halfway through

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finished it the first time and ended up closing the whole thing without saving
the cat is way too big. i feel like as i get further away from where i start the drawing, the proportions start falling apart. what should i be practicing to prevent this?

That dog has some long ass legs.

>>2318309
try measuring stuff in your head. like note the width of the dog's head in relation to the distance between the dog and cat heads, and the cat head in relation to that, and everything else

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>>2318317
not long enough honestly
>>2318321
thanks

>>2318288
that isn't halfway, that's like barely ten percent of the way

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Gave it a try with pen.

>>2318331
I'm liking it laddie

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Study of the dogs head

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>>2317741
you are welcome

Does anyone have tips for drawing animal legs (like on the shiba)? I have to do the strokes a dozen times over until I almost get them right. Is it just a practice thing?

>>2318261
you painted over it didnt you

>>2316400
Don't make the mouth so close to the nose

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>>2317484 (You)
>>2317586
>>2318108
>>2318183


OK I put together a quick step by step guide on roughly how I simplify objects, break things down into shapes/outlines etc... using the hawk picture that you submitted as an example.

This is not the most detailed breakdown, but hopefully it helps give an idea of the process. Any questions, or if any extra explanation is needed just ask.

>>2318483
Nice! I see it a little more. However, my question is just how you see step 2. Below the ink, I would draw it out in marker first (just shapes), so my step 1 is there and in marker. Step 2, however, to train my eye to see it that simple, I'm not sure how that's done. But like the other anon said, this may be too complicated for me to approach. I'll attempt something more simple like insects or a more simple bird/hawk.

>>2318354
Finaly somebody understands how to study - no need to copy the whole thing, do what you think will help you the most and what youll enjoy doing!

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>>2318467
This is great. Thanks.

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>>2318329
I have ADHD. I really just sketched and colored in the dog's base color and didn't feel like doing more. I never do...

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Hello! Newfag at drawing. Always been interested in drawing but I never really decided on getting serious until now.

So I read the sticky and tried my hand at the first exercise! (Pic related)

I'm obviously a newbie and a complete novice at drawing but I'm open to all sorts of teaching/tips/suggestions! Also, about how much time should I spend each day practicing? Should I use a sketchbook instead of a drawing tablet? I already got one and a set of pencils with different thicknesses and also two kinds of erasers, though to be honest it seems a bit easier to draw on a tablet than on a sketchbook. Perhaps that's bad.

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>>2318492

Training your eye is exactly right. It takes practice to learn to break things down, simplify and look for the important shapes.

Unfortunately a lot of people focus mainly on "how to draw" but really the most important lesson for an artist to learn is "how to see".

This board loves to talk about Loomis and "construction" and various technical sounding jargon etc... but it's all absolutely useless if you don't develop your artistic eye.

Hopefully this gif I made might help a little in explaining how to try and see the simple patterns and shapes and break the image down. It's a very difficult concept to explain though.

>>2318630
This has all been very helpful, thanks for the info. I guess in this case, how did you learn how to break things down? I'd like to train my eye and exercise this as much as possible, but I'd like to do this "right". I've been doing the peter han method for months now, and sadly, no avail (I'll post what his method was once I'm back home. It's in the QA as I was one of his students).

I know you should avoid detail and get simple shapes, but I'm unsure how to train myself to see those simple shapes. I can get as far as step 1, but the rest is a lost for me as step 2 just seems like "now go straight into rendering". The steps posted earlier was really neat, but I have no idea how that was even done. And I'd like to approach this method with little hand holding, but I'm just trying to figure out how. Or a better question; How do I figure out How to do that?

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Hi, this is my first to here. What I wanted to say is that I am quite new to art, I've had an interest in drawing since a small child because my mother is an artist. I recently got serious about drawing, and I've been drawing for around 1-2 years. I just finished this experimental piece and would like critique from someone more experienced. Thanks for your time

>>2318724
Also just a note, The shading isn't dark and unequal as the picture shows, its just the image quality

>>2318429
Nah, I fucked up one some places like the cup and the doily.

>>2318270
Thanks.

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hey /ic/, how's my first drawing?

>>2318772
It's shit

>>2318772
Your first drawing doesn't matter, it's what you do over a long amount of time that does.

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Drew this a little while ago, anyone have tips on how to draw decent looking circles?

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>>2318877
Here's what I was trying to copy.

>>2318877
ur circles aren't the problem. the body of ur camera is way shorter than it should be, and the angles are all wrong (look at the bottom edge of ur drawing & compare it to the reference). draw the body of the camera first (ie just the plain rectangle) and then look at how th angles of the lens is relative to that and so on.

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pls tellme
i´m doing rigth ?

>>2316262
reminds me of manic. :^)

>>2318892
Thanks for the feedback, will try again.

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>>2317100
Just started reading it myself, what i have so far

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>>2316119
so ive been grinding for the past couple days doing like 10-15 pages of acrylic figure drawing because im trying to do some oil paintings for christmas. how can i improve on the next one

>this one is oil btw im trying to be liberal on paint but the end result will be alla prima

>>2318893

stop using grid paper; its a crutch, and please post your pictures right side up

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So I took another shot at drawing the camera, hopefully I improved a little bit.

>>2318659
Not that guy, but shape recognition and whatnot is a big part of Keys to Drawing, as well as DOTRSOTB and could also be trained through something like Bargue plates.

>>2318985

The lens is the most glaring part. Check your reference again and look up ellipses in perspective.

>>2319047
Never read Keys to Drawing, but I did read DOTRSOTB and I draw Baruge Plates very often. I actually enjoyed DOTRSOTB quiet a bit, great read and fun exercises (did they all quiet a bit). Bargue plates are neat, I use them as proportion studies among other things.

Yet... I'm still not sure how this even works.

>>2318724
work on your mouth shape, just looks like an overlly rendered oval with an indent

>>2318588
try to dedicate at least half an hour daily. that's a pretty good stravinsky, well done

drawing tablets aren't recommended because you can spam undo until a line looks right and you won't learn how to concentrate on how to actually deliberately focus on the line and then only sketch it once or twice. if don't do that then i don't see how tablets are worse.

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How about this /ic/?

How would you go about drawing a Water Bottle, or even a Spray Bottle? Anything out there that explains how to break things into simple shapes?

>>2316253
where can I learn construction?

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>>2318630
>>2319047
>>2319077
For a beginner like me, see pic related

I am working through Loomis "Fun with Pencil" right now. Should I keep going or should I just jump into DOTRSOTB or Bargue plates

>>2319195

Draw a box lesson 6

>>2319196

Draw basic forms then use those basic forms to build Loomis Blooks.

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not a bad excersize
what can i do to improve my practice?
i think i accidentally gave them all slightly different facial features. so hard to draw the same guy twice.

>>2319273

Pick a direction to look in and stick to it. ;)

Seriously though, make sure the eyes look right first before adding color etc... it's much harder to fix later.

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Haven't drawn anything for like 2 weeks because Bert Dodson keeps giving me too hard exercises

>>2319273
This looks decent . I just wish the face weren't so squashed vertically. If it were slightly longer face it would be aesthetically more pleasing

>>2317223
looks like a trace of a real girl? Is that good?

>>2318259
Depends. Is it stylize? If so, the more you learn from life, the more you understand why they made those choices. Once you understand the rules, it's easy to see how they broke them.

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What digital painting exercises do I need to follow to be able to paint like this

>>2319348
You need an understanding of how light and form interact. Honestly there is nothing special going on there, but there is obviously several years of studies and fundamentals and experience behind it.

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Trying to learn arms from the Youtube channel thread.

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Pt. 2

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Draw this if you're so tough!!!!

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Good, Bad or shit?

>>2319376
invisible

>>2319350

The guy has stuck a bunch of reference photo's together in montage and then painted directly from them.

The rest of the images apparent sophistication is made up of something called "false detail", i.e all the brush patterns and rough texture gives the illusion of much more complexity than is actually there.

Telling beginners they need to study years of fundamentals, or have some kind of advanced grasp of light and form to create work like this is disingenuous.

>>2318877
Find the Peter Han video and grind out the circle exercises.

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>>2316119
i been drawing for a hobby for 3 years but now i want to learn to draw the human figure semi decently so i can draw cartoons people
is it possible to learn that in 6 months ? how many hour should i study a day to reach that goal?
i have downloaded these books
- force dynamic life drawing for animators
-michael hampton figure drawing
-vilppu figure drawing
and also i'm watching proko

>>2319425
depends on your definition of 'decently'. You probably already can. Or you need 5 more years before you can.

Don't worry about how 'decent' you are at it. Adopt a daily routine and do figure studies and gesture practice, and do everything you can to do BETTER at it. Go somewhere you can stealth draw people. Join a group that hires models. Use youtube vids. W/e you do, don't worry so much about the books and just draw humans. You'll get better.

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i'm trying to do a disgaea girl, but i don't know how to translate this pose to the disgaea Proportions/style i have never drawn before, and i don't have any idea, can you give me some advices?

>>2319477
Copy disgaea art. You have to draw it to understand it. No one can come in here and tell you magical secret to greatness. At best they can give you an example, but then what?

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>>2319490
thank you anon, i was stuck, but i will try this.

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I'm working through keys to art, I've got one huge fucking problem, that being, I'm using a tablet for the first time in my life, cheap little thing I got from a friend.

On paper with pen, I can make a mostly straight line, but that's drawing from the wrist (bad???) I've been working on the reflection of a bottle practice and I can't make a straight line for fuck all. The pen catches all my micro jitters, all the little catches and it causes and ugly thing to appear on the screen.

As is, I've got the tablet leaning around a 45 degree angle, pitched between my solid keyboard tray and the top of the desk. IT's not the desk, but my arm, I know it. Is my positioning wrong, or is this a skill thing? I see so many artist with desks that are angular as all fuck, and just practicing the movements in air makes me feel like I'm doing it completely wrong.

Any help for the beginner?

Here's what I have so far, as you can see it's top tier shit.

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Tried some maid study, had some fun in construction then totally realized I barely know how to paint/render. Oh well, it was a fun effort

>>2319239
thanks anon!

>>2316359
Your sketch looked so much better, what happened?

>>2316685
usethony loomistano here.

>>2319600
Why do my finished drawings look worse than my sketches? What am I doing wrong?

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>start drawing
>mind immediately starts to wander

Hey does anyone know a good tutorial or book on how to digitally paint?

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I need a critique on my gestures. I tried doing the "Economy of Line" mentioned in Hampton's book but I don't know if I'm doing it right. I feel like I've been drawing more the form rather than the gesture if that makes sense(I'm still learning these terms.)

>>2319890
Find Huston's lectures on gesture from CGP when you get the chance, or maybe some vilppu.

>>2319908
I'll look through those materials but can I get an idea what I am doing wrong? Is it the whole thing that is wrong or just a small part?

>>2319916
You're focusing on simplified contours and wrapping lines when you should be thinking about the lines that flow /through/ the figure, how they curve, and exaggerating them. The Huston lecture is very short (20-40 minutes iirc) and covers this well.

>>2319924
I see, thanks. I'll look through Hudson's Lecture then.

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>>2319715
Don't think, listen to music and get a feel for what you want to draw. That's what I do atleast to get out of drawer's block. Granted I fucking suck but I'm happy I went through with what I wanted.

>>2319960
The second I put pencil to paper I start to think "am I doing this right?" "dammit, concentrate" "fuck, should I be visualizing" "oh god I'm doing everything wrong." It's really annoying.

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>>2319997
Ignore your thoughts, some people plan ahead on what they draw, maybe you should try just going through with it. Some doodles turn into masterpieces with time.

>>2319197

Do right side of the brain, you're symbol drawing

>>2319196

Fun with a Pencil, then Figure Drawing for all it's Worth

>>2320012
I think that the first lesson of the famous artists course is superior to both of those books, in terms of teaching beginners the concept of form and construction of form. I would suggest doing that, and practicing seeing and drawing form from life and photographs etc, until you are certain you understand form, and are able to put it down on paper. After that, loomis would make much more sense, and you will have a lot more success with it.

NEW THREAD

>>2320096


>>2320096


>>2320096

>>2318724
Study the shape and scale of the facial features. It also seems like you got a little lazy with the mouth area, instead of following the textures of the lips. But the shading in the nose ain't too bad.

P.S.There is nothing wrong with searching for advice on the internet (hey that's why most of us are here). So don't hide the fact that you used a Mark Crilley tutorial... https://youtu.be/W1QkYcGnHeU

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>>2319367