What if Constantinople didn't fall? Let's say they

>>964704
they get fucked soon after. they were already a sinking ship

>>964704

For Byzantium to survive, they need to stop Constantinople from being sacked by the Crusaders in 1204 and at some point regain all of western Asia Minor. Plus they constantly have to check their northern borders from emerging powers like Hungary, Serbia and Bulgaria.

Overall pretty damn difficult to pull.

>>964704
If the Ottomans didn't get them the Russians, Venicians, or Spanish probably would have. You would need to go back a hundred years or so and make radical changes to the political structure if your aim is to save the Byzantine empire.

If it was impossible even for a genius like Alexius to with the help of the crusaders (Who at least initially helped the Byzantines) retake enough land from the Muslims to get a proper frontierI don't see how anything could have changed the fate of Byzantium at that border.

Things would be pretty different I imagine

What I've always wondered is, if the Byzantine Empire somehow managed to survive to the 20th century and hadn't radically changed the events of history after 1453, would it have fallen under Communist influence in the Cold War due to its relations with Russia. This is assuming that somehow the course of history went unaltered by its survival. Of course, it surviving would actually drastically change the history of the world.

>>965106
It would probably have undergone a political revolution at some point, and it's later influence entirely depends on that.

>>964704
Civil war between the Catholic and Orthodox schisms.

>>964889
Anything is better than the Turks.

>>965136
this

>>965136
Rather Turkish turban than Papal tiara.

File: 1459695107769.gif (493KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

493KB, 500x375px

>>965186
t. mehmet

>>964709

Could the holding of Constantinople have halted the Turks?

The city was actually pretty well defended. Byzantium wasn't as doomed as you might think by just looking at a map.

>>965106

It's literally impossible to know so instead we can have fun mindlessly speculating.

I think that when the Tsardom fell Byzantium would have a frosty relationship with the USSR and the Byzantines would in the end be too loyal to their own traditions to have a Communist revolution of their own. I think at most they'd become a Constitutional Monarchy with an elected Parliament/Senate.

Would Russia have even grown to the extent that it did if Byzantium never fell though?

>>965238
>>965225
>>965186
>>965136
>>965116
>>965106
>>964925
This whole discussion is pointless unless we precisely define what it means for "Byzantinum did not fall".

"Not falling" can mean anything, from being an independent city, a Venetian puppet or winning the war in such a way Byzantinum would turn into exactly the same thing as the ottomans, except for they're more european than arabic and orthodox rather than muslim.

>>965206
Loukas Notaras actually

>>965247

Didn't fall in 1453 and somehow continued to survive after I'm assuming is what's being discussed.

>DUDE WHAT IF XD
Fuck off