in your opinion who is the greatest egyptian pharaoh of all time?

He was a teen autist obsessed with his own funeral, played his funeral with dolls all day

Ahkenaten.

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>>831977
good novel anon, but still fiction

>>831968
Male Egyptians didn't wear earrings, his mask isn't even his own. It belonged to Nefertiti.

Tutankhamun was one ugly, disfigured motherfucker who was a product of incest and who practiced incest himself.

Every time I see someone praising "king TUT" I get mad. It has to be the thorn in the side of every Egyptologist. Of course, nobody mentions that Tutankhamun was a literal nobody and the only reason his tomb was found in tact was because when he died, random crap was thrown (not placed) into it, stuff that wasn't even his, and his tomb was summarily forgotten by even the Egyptians.

He was the end of an bloodline they wanted to forget. His father, Akhenaten, was the real interesting character of his story. On the death of his father, the priests grabbed onto the boy and made him undo everything his father'd done.

Tutankhamun already had a clubbed foot as well as other genetic defects and he did nothing of note during his reign and died from illness due to his deformities. He couldn't even walk without assistance, much less ride a chariot. All they needed was his stamp on restoring the old ways, and when his infirmity finally killed him, they just tossed him out like rubbish.

On the upside, we got a real look at artifacts. On the downside, the least important Pharaoh in history became recognized as the most important figure according to Western culture.

Guys: Look Up Ramses II, Hatshepsut, and seriously - Akhenaten.
These people changed their world. Heck, Seti II, Ramses I, rose from the military, and even King Thutmose IV was noteworthy for being the first archaeologist (rediscovered many treasures, such as the Sphinx).

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HOL UP

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>>831968
Taharqa of course :^)

>>832131
Holy shit, why is he black?

>>832140
Literally everyone wants to forget about this dynasty.

>>832131
WE

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Mentuhotep

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>>832148
Meme's aside, Taharqa was the Nubian Dynasty's Gr8est Pharaoh, and even threw off an Assyrian Invasion.

Also possibly the only black dude mentioned in the bible for that act.

Using statues made from black stone to prove that, for example, Mentuhotep was black is utter rubbish.

WUZ

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Ptomely, fuck you

EMPRUHZ

>>832027
His tomb is legitimately fascinating; the fact that there was evidence indicating contemporary thieves had broken in and started melting down the gold to make it easier to smuggle out and apparently being caught in the act. The idea of stumbling across a 3000 year old crime scene, still intact, gives me goosebumps.

>>832154
WE

>>832027
>rediscovered many treasures, such as the Sphinx
How the fuck do you lose something as massive as the sphinx?

In a sandstorm or something? Would they rush to recover/unbury it?

>>831978
This. Dude was an absolute madman.

>>832617
Moron.

>>831968
Ramses II hands down

The fact that Egypts history is long enough to build the Sphinx, lose the Sphinx, and rediscover the Sphinx all before Alexander shows up is fucking astounding

>>833455
Ramses II was just a builder. Nothing more.
He got a great empire left by his superiour antecessors (like Ramses I), fought inconclusive wars that drained the treasury, build stuff, put his name on stuff that wasn't built by him and died old as fuck, leaving his dinasty in the shit.

>>831968

Seti II

>>832154
There were 5 or six of those guys.

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Ramses III

>>834116
Still kinda cool.
Imagine you're some peasant building the same monumental bullshit for the same Pharaoh as your grandfather, it'd make it kinda easy to believe in this divine origins thing.

>>834908
Well, he had two sed festivals.
A pharaoh reaching a sed meant he transcended into a literal living walking god (even more than the usual godliness of the pharaos), so I wonder what went down when he reached the second sed.

People must have thought that he was immortal.

>>834929
I've always wondered if people who were brought up to believe they are literal gods just accepted that as fact for most of their lives or sort of went along with it so they don't disappoint the people and the high priests or whoever.
There's a fun bit in Pratchett's Pyramids, where the Pharaoh vaguely wonders how exactly he makes the sun rise every morning, considering he is still asleep most of the time.

>>831968
>imo i think its king tut [SIC]

HOW SO, ACCORDING TO YOU?

>>834948
I think that if people brainwash you from early childhood, telling you that you're a god, you're really going to think so.
Of course after adulthood, if the pharaoh wasn't a complete retard, he would acknowledge that the conflicting interests fo your court, and you getting defeated in battle or whatever, meant that you weren't in fact a god.

This is even truer in the Middle and Late Empires, because Egypt had many contacts with other empires and the pharaoh acted as equal to those emperors and kings, like the Hittite king.

As for the Ancient Empire, the pharaohs were inded "gods" as they ruled virtually unopposed, conquered everything they wanted, controlled the river by ordering the build up of trenches and canals, etc. They were, in practice, absolut gods and rulers of the earth they controlled.

>>834980
Yeah that's true, though as I understand it the Pharaohs were never treated/seen as capital-G gods in the fire-and-brimstone sense, were they?
So in your example if they do meet some other king or are defeated in combat, big whoop, there's another god around.

But yes, controlling the river and having your every wish obeyed and such was probably relatively god-like.

>>834999
The ones in the Ancient Empire were treated as literal gods.
There were temples dedicated to worshipping him in life AND death. And those cults remained centuries after those pharaohs died.

The fact that Egypt was isolated and generally more advanced than everything in the world at that time (except Sumer, but sumerians were so relatively far away that even trade was tenuous between the two civilizations) meant that those pharaohs never knew defeat, which further cemented their place as gods.

>>833859
This.

And the fact that they've been doing the same things for over 5000 years or so is mindblowing. Building the same shit, having pharaohs, worshipping the same gods, all with zero advance in culture or technology.

>>831968
King Tut? More like King Slut.

>>832009
I was with him until he discovered a dead mutated monster at Knossos palace, I was like what the fuck

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>>831968

Alexander tbhfam

>>833859
How in the world is it possible to lose a Sphinx?

>>833859
>Believing the multimillennial chronology of Egypt's history

>>836512
There's lots of proof...

>>836006
>butthurt white guy detected
We was kings and don't you ever forget.

>>836480

Leave it to the Egyptians, and it's possible. They're worse than the fucking Italians.

>>836636
No, I mean, how did the Ancient Egyptians lose it? And then rediscover it again? All before Alexander came...

>>831968
Ramses II was pretty based

>>836744
Sand storms and shit covered it

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Akhenaten is the coolest even if he did fuck everything up, and Ramesses II or maybe Thutmose III would be the best overall.

>>836006
>building the same shit
That's factually wrong. The architecture in ancient Egypt jumped leaps and bounds over the time. The skill of the crafters also improved massively.

For example, they didn't have collonades or free standing pillars in the Ancient Empire.

And the fact that some guys built pyramids well after the First Intermediate Period was anlogous to why italians in the high middle ages built stuff reminiscent of roman times.

>having pharaohs
The UK has been having kings and chiefs for millenia too, for example.

>worshipping the same gods
Wrong, the Egypt pantheon changed over time. The gods weren't forgotten, but they surely fell out of favor. Like Re which was everything in the Ancient Empire, but in the New Empire everyone was all about Amon (fusions of Re and Amon aside).

Also, people have been worshipping the same semite god for millenia.

>zero advance in culture or technology
You don't know shit about anything, do you?

>>837915
I mean, Egypt as the land of the pharaohs started with literal people using stone tools, who didn't know how to use papyrus, and could only build mud huts.

From this, to giants pyramids, papyrus, to bronze, to mathematics, geometry, an advanced way of writing ideas and words, to controlling a fucking river.

From this to far flung expeditions, to "not so massive but much more complex and beautiful than the pyramids" temples and palaces, to sea faring ways, to intricate metalworking and jewelry.

From this to medicine, an extensive and complex trade system with the outside world, to a well trained army numbering in the tens of thousands, to amazing riches, to a skyrocketing quality of life among the normal people.

The ancient egyptian civilization is nothing short of amazing in every way possible. That, and the sumerian/akkadian civilization.

>>838774
Okay, kid.

It's getting more and more difficult to discuss anything related to egypt because of shit like that.

>>832027
You should have mentioned Amenhotep III, ruled over Egypt during its absolute height for all time up to now. I like the whole shroud of mystery around Narmer/Menes, first known man to unite upper and lower Egypt.

Akhenaten and his attempt at monotheism (at least, that's what it seems like) is the most fascinating Pharaoh to me, even though he fucked his whole country up by ignoring everything except religion. Have you read nikoznate's alternate history about him?

>>833859
Consider: Ptolemy and Cleopatra are more removed chronologically from the first Pharaohs than they are from us.

>>837915
>>837942
Yeah, they might have advanced a bit and from building smaller stuff went to build pyramids, but when you look at it generally, it all stayed the same.

They still had gods, they were still building stuff dedicated to them, they still had pharaohs they worshiped, the last 2000 years of their existence were exactly the same and it's hilarious. How can one civilization keep up for so long with the same fucking bullshit?

>>839395
>Ptolemy and Cleopatra are more removed chronologically from the first Pharaohs than they are from us.

yeah, but there was barely any cultural, technological or any other advancements between the pharaohs and the Ptolemaic dynasty

now compare the time between Cleopatra and us, so much shit has happened

>>839462
Just like the western civilization has kept up with the same bullshit for so long.
>still building houses of worship to gods
>still have people to worship (kings, celebrities)

It's hilarious, how can one civilization keep up for so long with the same fucking bullshit?

We are closer in time to the extinction of the Tyrannosaurus Rex than the Tyrannosaurus Rex is to the extinction of the Stegosaurus.

>>839481
No, seriously.

If you first went back in time to 2000 BC and then to 1000 BC, you wouldn't be able to tell that much of a difference. Like, if one of the people from 2000 BC traveled to 1000 BC, he wouldn't have much problems fitting in with the society.

Now, look at us and look at 1500 AD and look at 5 AD.

>>839514
Taking into account technology has been advancing exponentially, it's only natural that would happen.

Egypt and Sumer still saw advances like crazy, taking into account their frame of existence.

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>>837942
In terms of technology Egypt generally was pretty conservative compared to somewhere like Mesopotamia or the Aegean though. For example, they didn't adopt iron until it was forced on them by the Assyrians, while their Canaanite neighbors had adopted it centuries ago. Even during periods of disunity and chaos, they remained fairly closed to innovations from outside. It's pretty strange.

I agree though that the Egyptians cultural and intellectual development was spectacular, and that's really where their influence on history is strongest. For example, our modern writing systems (everywhere outside of East Asia) are ultimately derived from Egypt, and much of ancient Greece's art and architecture seems to have developed out of Egyptians.

>a skyrocketing quality of life among the normal people.
Can you tell me more about this or give me some sources? Egypt always conjures up popular images of tyranny and oppression, so I'd love to hear about its more benevolent side.

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Thutmose III is the greatest Pharaoh, hands down.

He had a 54 year reign, seventeen military campaigns, conquered Nubia and Syria, and added even more monuments to the temple complex of Karnak.

When Thutmose II died, leaving little baby Thutmose III as Pharaoh, his aunt and step-mother Hatshepsut used him as a tool to become co-Pharaoh and gain power for herself.

After reigning for 22 years, she died and Thutmose was so pissed at her that he literally erased her from history. He destroyed her monuments and tore down her obelisks and defaced what he didn't want to destroy.

And all this time, Thutmose had been leading military campaigns into Syria and Canaan for her, exacting tribute from scores of nations and even from Assyria.

The 18th dynasty is the greatest dynasty in general. Hatshepsut, Thutmose I, II, III, and IV, Amenhotep III, and his son Amenhotep IV, better known as the heretic Pharaoh Akhenaten, Queen Nefertiti, and Tutankhamen.

The only dynasties that can come anywhere near the amount of greatness they had is the Ptolemies, AKA the 34th dynasty.

>>839575
What about the 4th and the 19th?

>>839556
Regarding the quality of life.

The stability brought by a striong central power permitted the building of things like canals and dykes to control the flow of the river, thereby creating a vast area where agriculture was possible. This made Egypt a place where famine was extremely rare, in contrast with places like Canaan, Assyria, Elam or even Sumeria and Akkad.
The only time where there were hunger were during a year of severe drought/strong river waters, or during the intermediate periods, when the central power was weak and wasn't capable of mantaining the dykes and canals (which required work every year).

The expansion of Egypt towards the south, into Nubia, also gave Egypt a vast number of slaves and serfs, freeing the general populace from very heavy work or the worst of war (although they were still required to work for the pharaoh, of course).

Private enterprise was allowed by the pharaoh, although regulated, which gave people other means of gaining wealth besides farming and salaries for monument building.

The general view that the egyptian people were tyranized by the pharaoh si generally wrong. They were well treated and actually wanted to be employed in monument building, as it gave them the opportunity to travel the country and gain more money.

Being more insular, the egyptians were also safer from raiders, people trying to kill them and control their land, and so on.

Resuming, the egyptian had an easy life compared with its neighbours. They lived longer, were well fed, had more money, enjoyed themselves.

(And by money I mean possessions, as egyptian economy was barter based.)

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>>839600
Thanks m8. I really need to learn more about Egypt.

>>831968
Alexander the Great
:^)

>>839664
Not a pharaoh.

>>839575
Pretty sure that's the guy Moses offed.

>>839474
What are you on about? There was relatively less advancement, yes, but to say that there was barely any is just plain wrong.

>>839514
>2000 BC
>rich provinces, art everywhere, pious populace

>1000 BC
>seaniggers, desertniggers, nubianiggers, hittiteniggers everywhere, iron weapons and tools

What the fuck.

>>839556
The whole oppression meme is because of the Jews. Blame Charlton Heston and The Ten Commandments. If you were an Egyptian, Egypt was a dank place to live.

>>839673
But he was.

>>831968
Any answer other than Thutmose III is wrong

You just can't beat the warrior king

>>831968
You mean the one that some retard broke the beard off and thought that crazy gluing it back on was a great idea?

>>834184
Mentuhotep II is the only relevant one.

>>839844
Unless you're Moses.

>>839996
U wot?

Even if Moses was real, which he wasn't, he had nothing to do with Thutmose III.

Jamaal the Turnt

>>832150
WUZ

>>839594
4th dynasty is great but as the great as the pyramids are, they just aren't as architecturally complex as the monuments built under the 18th, not to mention that they had few military and geopolitical accomplishments.

19th dynasty is shit compared to the 18th. Ramses I was a mediocre conqueror compared to Thutmose III and Ramses II was mediocre culturally compared to Amenhotep III, and wasn't a very successful commander either.

>>831968

The black ones, from which African Americans are descendents.

>>839673
Alexander was definitely a Pharaoh. The Argeads (His dynasty) were the 33rd dynasty of Egypt.

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>>839673

>>839996
The Pharaoh of the Old Testament was probably Ramses II.

>>840027
WE

>>840018
>which he wasn't
Whoops, better put on my newsman fedora here.

>>840038
>In 1974 Egyptologists visiting his tomb noticed that the mummy's condition was rapidly deteriorating and flew it to Paris for examination
>Ramesses II was issued an Egyptian passport that listed his occupation as "King (deceased)".The mummy was received at Le Bourget airport, just outside Paris, with the full military honours befitting a king

kek

Holy shit, Sphinx was actually built before the pyramids...

>>840024
KANGZ

>>832609
WUZ

>>840084
KANGZ

>>840038
Nah, he wasn't @1446 BCE

Being the Son of Ra is hardly exclusive.

>>840018
Buried him and his entire army in the Red Sea.

>>840132
kek

>>832609
Okay fags you don't need to do this for every single one.

>>832178
Shit look at that big ass nose. I wouldn't be surprised if the nogs WE WUZED him too.

>>832143
it was to symbolize fertility

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>>841002
Or maybe because he was, you know, black?

>>831968
yes I have actually seen the royal sarcophagus of Tut at the LACMA when I was twelve years old. I wish that I would have appreciated it more but history was tedious to me as a kid

>>841039
Those are some Nigerian features right there.

>>842780
Yeah, Fulani as fuck if you google around.

>>831968
>his amazing death mask
>his

We all know it is Ramses the Great.

There's no contest here.

19th dynasty master race tbqh

Ramses III

>>843134
The man literally did nothing.

>>843142
Hey now, that's a god-king I can relate to!

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>>843101
this

>>831978
One of the worst pharaohs ever. His reign ushered in religious and political unrest, and he put the entire country into a massive recession because he didn't pay any attention to his responsibilities. All he did was move the entire capital to amarna, force everyone to move or go homeless, and such the sun gods dick in the middle of the desert.

>>841039
Don't bait.

>>844518
CHOPPIN EM OFF LIKE A CHAMP
GREEKS [literally] KEKED

Hatshepsut, Seti I, Khufu, and Ramesses II.
>fuck Thutmose III AND Amenhotep IV, you fucking pop culture bandwagoners

>>846412
>khufu

I love this meme

>>841039
HOL UP

Senusret III

>>846460
Khufu was pretty great though senpai

>>846412
But liking Ramesses II instantly makes you a pop culture bandwagoner.

>>831968
>i think its king tut

what did he actually do? He's a meme leader

>>847435
literally nothing, the characters surrounding him (Akenhaten, Ay, Nefertiti, Horemheb ) are far more interesting

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>King Tut's tomb: '90%' chance of hidden chambers

what's inside?