Let's summon our Japanese overlord by talking about Japanese

>>51056
Maybe you should do less imagining and more reading.

Fireworks were Japan, right?

>>51186
China. 7th century.

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>What caused Japan to side with the Axis powers?
They're the only ones who saw Japans clams over Korea and Manchuria as legitimate

>Did Hitler ever acknowledge Japan or meet with Hirohito?
Yes, Hitler considered them "Honorary Aryans". There's also similar political ideologies, but really he just need an ally

>Hirohito was evil
Showa was not evil. The emperor has no real power during that time of Japanese history, still doesn't, and never really did. Now did he sign off on what was happening? Yeah, sure, but he was never the ones to come up with the plans, that was all the military.

>he wasn't tried for any war crimes
He wasn't. In exchange for forfeiting his status of a being a "divine being". MacArthur honestly just needed a puppet

>>51244
thanks senpai

how did the Japs feel about MacArthur writing the constitution for them? were they aware it was co-written by a white piggu gaijin at the time?

>>51315
>how did the Japs feel about MacArthur writing the constitution for them
I have no idea, but it worked well for them until the 90s and they seem hard pressed to change it now

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>>51056
I'm glad you posted Oda Nobunaga, OP. He's one of my favorite figures. It's really interesting to see the totally different views people in Japan have on him even today. It's like they still can't reconile him. He's more popular than Tokugawa, who was the guy who 'won' the whole era and became Shogun. But maybe it's because he died before unifying the country that adds an extra bit of interest to his life. I'm sure there's also the element of how he spurned tradition, which is still a huge part of Japanese society.

>>51133
Still butthurt over the Russo-Japanese war, I see.

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I feel the need to mention that medieval Japanese sculpture was absolutely fucking amazing. China was usually better than Japan at most things, but this is the one big exception. They were probably the best sculptures in the world for a lot of the medieval period.

anyone here ever read Genji Monogatari?

>>51385
Nobunaga's popular because he was a badass. Nigga burned down a temple full of monks because they were pissing him off. He was also the first to make good use of the arquebus. Also he was allegedly gay and fucked a black dude

>>51592
>best sculptures in the world in medievial period
mate you gotta read some books

>>51613
Yes, in translation. Would you like to discuss it, friend?

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>>51613
>Heian
Literally one of the most boring part of Japanese history

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>tfw this happened instead of Japan becoming an unstoppable Catholic empire

>>51896
Also arguably the most important, because it set up the complex court culture that created a sort of rift in the mindset of the warrior class. Medieval Japanese samurai culture was concerned with trying to balance military might with an attempt to retain the high culture of the Heian era.

>>52009
You're right, but that doesn't stop it from being fucking boring. Edo is boring as fuck too since literally nothing happens for over 200 years

>>51928
It would have eventually made Japan weak and it would have destroyed their national spirit since Shinto is an ethnic religion.

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>>51056
Is that an actual rendition of Oda?

I've always wondered what he looked like!

>>51056
Something weird going on about Hirohito and im starting to think he knew more and participated more in the war effort than is popularly thought

Ace pilot Saburo Sakai became super skeptical about him.
>"We were ordered to go die for victory. . . . Who gave the orders for that stupid war? The closer you get to the emperor, the fuzzier everything gets."

Then there's MacArthur cutting a deal and the necessity to stabilize the government as a non-communist bulwark in the east etc. etc.

>>52213
It wasn't too different from Amida Buddhism, actually; missionaries called it the "devil's Christianity" and many Japanese thought Christianity was another Buddhist sect because they were so similar. There inevitably would have been a rebellion against the western religion as the Tokugawa became weaker and nationalism began to rise.

>>52215
No. On wikipedia it says

>An imagined portrait of Oda Nobunaga, by Jesuit painter Giovanni Niccolo, 1583-1590.

So it was painted after Nobunaga died...

>>51315
They thought fairly well of Mcarthur, and remember the position Japan was in at the time, completely devastated.

>Oda Nobunaga

Fucking gun grabbers.

How would Japan have been affected if MacArthur didn't take control of the occupation and deferred to an Allied advisory council?

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>>52924

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>>52424
Oh should have known thanks for the hope anyway anon

>>51056
>japanese history
Blah blah blah for most of antiquity
Get visited by Chinese
Change entire culture based around Chinese
Blah blah blah
Blah blah
Wow beat rooskies
Let's hit it big in china
Let's attack the Russians again
Get fucked thoroughly
Attack America
Get fucked rougher
Now the US territory of japanistan

>>51056
>What caused Japan to side with the Axis powers?

Probably their racial ideology and the fact that Hitler didn't give a shit about East Asia and Stalin had his hands full trying to bring Russian ex-satellites back into the USSR.

>What caused Japan to side with the Axis powers?

Japan had just fought Russia, so allying with them wasn't going to work too well.. They were anti colonial, partially envisioning a pan asian Japanese Empire, which means the european countries with asian colonies like the Brittish empire were generally opposed. The Axis didn't have any colonies in China.

When Japan was industrializing they loved and copied the fuck out of Brittish emprie and Germany.

And remember, at the end of WW2, things rapidly pivoted into being a fight against communisim.

>>51315
The older generation loves the fuck out of Mcarthur.

>>51667
He fucked Ranmaru Mori, but that wasn't considered gay. And you're pulling the fucking a black guy out of your ass. He did have a black servant though.

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>>53424
>The Axis didn't have any colonies in China

Because Japan took them all from German in WW2

>>53520
>WW1

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>>51767
I've seen other sculptures from the period, nothing matches the Japanese stuff between the 9th-13th centuries, except for some stuff in China. European stuff wasn't that impressive prior to the 12th century and didn't outdo the Japanese until at least the 14th. Indian stuff was intricate but much more uniform and lacked the kind of naturalism and expressiveness of East Asian sculpture, and Islam had no sculpture to speak of. Nigeria and the Mexico had some naturalistic sculpture but nothing on par with Japan or China.

>>51056
After the war Hirohito met personally with MacArthur and had plenty of time to butter him up. It also helped that MacArthur became a huge celebrity with the Japanese people.

>>53590
damn that's a sick sculpture

>>53031
It's interesting that Japan bases most of their physical depiction of Nobunaga on that portrait. There were some contemporary art done by Japanese artists IIRC though.

>>53507
>And you're pulling the fucking a black guy out of your ass
No, but I'm am pretty sure he never fucked him. Which is why I added "allegedly"

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>>53634
Kamakura stuff is amazing.

>>53708
you should post more. I'm seriously digging this style. and this is ~10th century?

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>>53624
>It also helped that MacArthur became a huge celebrity with the Japanese people.

Did they think he was an oni or something?

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>>53758
It's 13th (or possibly later 12th-early 14th).

Here's a 9th century one.

>>53758
10th would be Heian. Kamakura is around 1100-1300.

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>>53829

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>>53908

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If I remember the context of these statues is that they scare evil spirits away from holy sites.

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>>53950
This one's 12th century, late Heian.

>>51244
>>Showa was not evil. The emperor has no real power during that time of Japanese history, still doesn't, and never really did.

I disagree. There's a great book called Empires At War: A Short History of Modern Asia that makes a pretty convincing case that Showa was just as power hungry and ambitious as Mussolini or Stalin.

>>He wasn't. In exchange for forfeiting his status of a being a "divine being". MacArthur honestly just needed a puppet

kek. He also got out of that on a technicality. He asked for and received permission from SCAP to perform the traditional rituals of honouring his ancestors, which included the divine sun goddess Amaterasu, thereby reaffirming his divine lineage.

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>>54002
Yeah, something like that, though there are also calmer statues like this too (early 13th century, Kamakura).

>>54050
>Empires At War: A Short History of Modern Asia
Thanks senpai. I don't have the best knowledge on Showa, mostly just Meiji and Taisho. Any other books you can throw my way?

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>You will never be this cool

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>>54471
>Falling for the Samurai meme

I'm reading The Making of Modern Japan. It's a pretty great survey of Japan from the time of the Tokugawa up through the modern day (around 2000) or so.

Also reading Embracing Defeat which is about Japan in the immediate postwar years, also great.

Shame that there's no other real good books on Japanese history, the Sengoku era, etc. that's not Japanese. You're basically stuck with Turnbull who I've heard isn't actually all that great since he's basically more of a fanboy writing "history".

>>54646

>That
>A samurai

I'd expect a weeb to know better.

>>54710
I'm planing on studying Japanese for that very reason

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>>51385
He's based and all but he's not even my favorite real nigga from the Sengoku.

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>>54947
I prefer the earlier Genpei War for my Heike monogatari and waifus.

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>>51244
>Showa was not evil. The emperor has no real power during that time of Japanese history, still doesn't, and never really did.
It begins. Too bad I can't post the usual .gif.

>>54102
That thing is amazing,

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>>54746

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How different would to Japan be if Totoyomi/Hide didn't force Tokugawa to rebel and remained in same positions?

What about Hojo/Imagawa unified Japan? How about Oda family still being in control, would they be open to the rest of the world after Japan became unified? How would Japan fare in 20th centuary in any of these scenarios?

And lastly, why did Nobu+Hide think they could take on Korea, let alone China?

>>55486
Toyotomi I mean, damn spelling.

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>>55296
Get out of here you Chinese fuck no ones denying war crimes here

>>55486
>How about Oda family still being in control, would they be open to the rest of the world after Japan became unified?
I have little idea of the whole scope of the situation, so this is just conjecture based on a single fact. Oda was a Christian, so I think he would have been more lenient than Hideyoshi and allowed further friendly contact with the West. I could only expect the west to have started a power-grab like they did with China.

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>>55486
>if Totoyomi/Hide didn't force Tokugawa to rebel and remained in same positions
>why did Nobu+Hide think they could take on Korea
What am I reading here?

Anyway Hideyoshi's justifications for invading Korea were sound. The only reason why they lost was because their navy was woefully under prepared and because Yi was a naval genius

>>55623
>Oda was a Christian
Oda was atheist, just open to Western ideas

>>55718
Yeah like I said, not my strong point when it comes to Japanese history.

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>>55669
Half-asleep jumble of questions from a humble anon.
>Anyway Hideyoshi's justifications for invading Korea were sound
Could you please go in more detail, with actual sources?

>>if Toyotomi/Hide didn't force Tokugawa to rebel and remained in same positions
I mean what if like Sekigahara event was completely avoided and Toyotomi held on to the power?

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>>55875
>with actual sources?
Sorry, buddy this is all from my ass. I'd love to give a source but most of this info is scatter shot I've picked up from multiple sources. Take it with a grain of salt

Hideyoshi wanted to invade Korea because for quite a few reasons. For one, Hideyoshi was loyal to the end want wanted to fill Nobunaga's ambition of taking over Asia. At the time the Joseon government was retarded and corrupt, mostly because Korea hadn't been at war for a few hundred years. The worst thing they've had to deal with was Japanese pirates, which is one of the reasons why their navy was as strong as it was. Korea was a sitting duck and ripe for the picking, Hideyoshi knew this. Another thing is that since the unification, he now has hundreds of thousands of idle Samurai who know nothing but war. He feared rebellion and discord so sending the Samurai so he figured sending them to do what they do best was a good idea. It really was too. The Japanese made huge gains before their supply lines were cut off by Yi. Japan really could have taken Korea if it wasn't for their underdeveloped navy. The war wasn't popular though, that's the reason why it's know as "Hideyoshi's war"

Interestingly much of the justification for Hideyoshi's invasion of Korea was used by Saigo Takamori for his proposed invasion of Korea in the late 1800s. The Samurai were quickly become a thing of the past thanks to the rapid pace of modernization. Fuck, they were still being paid their stipend of rice despite the Japanese economy switched over to a more western system so a lot of them were super poor. Takamori suggested invading Korea to put the Samurai back to work. Course that didn't happen, well not until much later and after the Samurai class was abolished.

>I mean what if like Sekigahara event was completely avoided and Toyotomi held on to the power?
Dunno. Hideyoshi was dead and Hideyori was like 8

>>56682
>He feared rebellion and discord so sending the Samurai to do what they do best was a good idea

Sorry for the mangled sentience

>>56682
>Dunno. Hideyoshi was dead and Hideyori was like 8
Oh, RIP you glorious rat-faced bastard.


But yeah, thanks for sharing that bit of info anon. All I knew of the war was the failed fighting itself.

>>53131
Japan fucked the ruskies and that was the end of it. Russia's fleet got demolished and their eastern spread got halted permanently. The only reason Siberia didn't get taken from Russia was thanks to Big Brother America TM and some New England treaty.

>>56855
>All I knew of the war was the failed fighting itself.
Like I said, the Japanese did great in land battles. They had some trouble with guerrillas, but pushed they were able to take Pyongyang in an incredible amount of time. Yi Sun-sin was a main reason for Japanese defeat. If you want to read about a bad ass look him up. See Battle of Myeongnyang

>>57133
I was strictly speaking of the naval failure, but yeah. Thanks for even more info.

I'm a newcomer to Japanese history, but I know the basics. Are there any books that you guys recommend for me to get into? Don't care how long or comprehensive they are.

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I've always wondered, just what caused the Anglo-Japanese alliance to break down? The answer I'm typically given is Japan's annexation of Manchuria, but I've also read that relations were rapidly deteriorating before that.

It always seemed strange to me that two countries so closely linked diplomatically in the modern age would be engaged in such a bloody war so relatively soon after.

>>58424
Well, one of the reasons Japan modernized so quickly is so they could kick whitey out of Asia. That probably has something to do with it

>>51056
Tbh there was a lot of similarities between the Nazi ideal of the Aryan Ubermensch and the Shinto concept that the Japanese were the chosen people of the gods.

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>>55718
no m8 he wandered around & was never heard from again which is why he vanish's from records

>>58424
Shitty treaties, refusal to recognize Japanese colonial claims, European powers generally treating them like shit just because they were Asian, and a mix of >>58621 but that's not entirely true.

>>51202
Japan wouldn't be Japan without China desu senpai

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>You will never burn monks alive with her
Why live?

Was the reason for Akechi Mitsuhide's betrayal ever made clear?

>>55875

Hideyoshi was going insane in his later years

He could of taken Korea if his navy wasn't getting so fucked hell he did pretty much take korea but was pushed back because of supply issues.

The anon talking about the bajillion samurai with no-one to fight I think is wrong because certain daimyo (see Fucking Tokugawa )didn't have to supply troops for the korea campaign so I don't see how getting a bunch of his own soldiers killed is a sound strategy

>>61102

Nope

Was a power grab most likely probably with some simmering resentment because Oda made fun of how is head looked.

He didn't expect Hideyoshi to pull a forced march out of his ass and his allies to betray him (his son in law sided with Hideyoshi)

>>51315
>how did the Japs feel about MacArthur writing the constitution for them

The people generally loved the shit out of MacArthur. The Japanese bureaucrats, iirc, really fought over the language of the text and because the constitution needed to be written in both English and Japanese as it was drafted, there was some really ingenious playing going around with the nuances behind the words used in the final version.

It's weird how little there has been movies and TV series about the MacArthur years in occupied Japan, it's ripe as fuck era to be mined for modern entertainment. And when you do get something, it's like. I was platinium mad when The Emperor turned out to a total shit movie about romance. The political stuff of the era, like the trials and day to day running of the occupation, the black market, etc. is fascinating as hell.

>>51613
>>51778
I got to the third chapter and stalled for a bit. Royall Tyler translation. Will it be worth it?