Did people in the darg ages just forget how to craft great art

>>502947
No, there were still some highly skilled masons. There was just a a smaller market for masonry.

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Yes.
Yes, they did.

>>502947
Replying only because "dark ages" is a horribly defunct term; please use "middle ages"

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>>502947

You're so right OP. Everything was just mud and shit until 01/01/1500 and then suddenly the renaissance happened.

Pic related. Horrible mudshit.

>>502966
Damn son

>>502947
Bait thread

>>503066
I really love cathedrals. I had a phase when I seriously considered investing time and money into a trip around Europe focused primarly on its greatest cathedrals. I know its kinda weird obsession but in certain sacral buildings, and there is no match for cathedrals, I get that special sensation that there is more to life, that things are possible and I admire people who build those wonders despite the poverty (or modesty of life, actually) their communities were in.

>>503156
Make sure you go to Chartes. I've been to Chartes and the Vatican, a few smaller cathedrals on the way.
Athens is also a good stop.
Chartes is my favorite, I got lost in that place so many times

>>503156
>I admire people who build those wonders despite the poverty (or modesty of life, actually) their communities were in.
>I admire people who payed for worthless overly-complex garbage rather than investing money in developing their community

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It's curious how, when they want to promote modern art degeneracy, leftists claim that there is no objective standard for great art, and that realism isn't necessary for art to be great. But when they want to bash the Middle Ages, they just say that Medieval Art is shit because it isn't realistic like classical and Renaissance art.

I, for one, love medieval art above anything else.

>>503624
>leftists all have one opinion and its contrary to yours

Kill yourself. People's ignorance of medieval art and architecture has nothing to do with being a leftist or not. Nor does understanding the subjectivity of art.

Take your muh degeneracy and muh leftists shit back to /pol/

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>>503615
It was this or an "edgy" image macro sooooo here you go.

>>503615
spiritual development was communal development. also they were in competition with other cities and needed places to store all the loot ("relics") from the crusades

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>>503624
Reach for your sources

>>502959 x100

It takes a great degree of centralisation and surplus wealth before you start getting the circumstances that allow for artists to flourish. When society broke down into tiny administrative units there suddenly wasnt the kind of coin going around.

>>503021
You are beyond deluded if you think the collapse of the Western Roman Empire didnt usher in massive problems cultural and economic.

The Dark Ages at best should be seen as the beginning of the middle ages and a transitionary period.

>>503156

I will never forget walking through Lincoln cathedral, noone else around, footsteps echoing on the stones, the the choir practice started singing in Latin.

As close to a real medieval experience as you will ever get.

>>503615#

>he doesn't know that both the church and the nobility gave away massive amounts of cash to the community, giving food and alms to the poor, setting up schools and managing hospitals. Not to mention providing hundreds of years worth of employment to people building and supplying cathedrals and other churchs.

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>>505002
>It takes a great degree of centralisation and surplus wealth before you start getting the circumstances that allow for artists to flourish
Depends. You certainly need that if you want stuff like gigantic sculptures and architecture, and of course you need a large market of wealthy patrons if art is going to be produced in any great amount, but smaller-scale art like painting and jewellery doesn't necessarily need to be produced by some great civilization. All that's needed is some kind of institution or tradition to keep art of alive, such as monasteries or the patronage of petty kings, and of course examples of that can be seen during the Dark Ages in insular art.

>You are beyond deluded if you think the collapse of the Western Roman Empire didnt usher in massive problems cultural and economic.
>The Dark Ages at best should be seen as the beginning of the middle ages and a transitionary period.
I think the problem is that the completely retarded periodization of 'medieval' is seen by the average person as just one big thing between Rome and the Renaissance. They end up having just one image of the entire period, which is usually seen as a pile of shit. Then they find out about Gothic art, cathedrals, Charlemagne, and so on, and realise that the medieval period wasn't all shit.

But since they still only have one image of the entire period, this causes them to go in the opposite direction and think that the whole period was cultured and civilized whilethe Dark Ages are nothing but a myth. The idea of a single 'medieval' period has been driven into out heads to the point that people can't comprehend that 400-800 AD and 1000-1500 AD were completely different things. We really should abandon the whole 'medieval period' as an idea, but that will never happen.

>>505115
I agree with you there.

>But since they still only have one image of the entire period, this causes them to go in the opposite direction and think that the whole period was cultured and civilized whilethe Dark Ages are nothing but a myth. The idea of a single 'medieval' period has been driven into out heads to the point that people can't comprehend that 400-800 AD and 1000-1500 AD were completely different things. We really should abandon the whole 'medieval period' as an idea, but that will never happen.

Hit the nail on the head there, although I think its not as bad when you brake down the period into its sub categoires,

yeah

>>502947
>Did people in the darg ages just forget how to craft great art and buildings?

1. THE MEDIEVAL "DARK AGES" ARE A SPURIOUS HISTORICAL CONSTRUCT.

2. ESSENTIALLY, YES.

>Like wtf happened?

FIRSTLY, THE TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS BECAME UNAVAILABLE, SECONDLY, THE METHODS FOR REPRODUCING THE TECHNOLOGY WERE GRADUALLY FORGOTTEN, OR IMPOSSIBLE TO IMPLEMENT, THIRDLY, THE ARCHITECTURAL TECHNIQUES DEVOLVED AS THEY WERE ADAPTED TO SUBPAR TECHNOLOGICAL MEANS, FOURTHLY, THE ARCHITECTURAL TECHNIQUES WERE EVENTUALLY FORGOTTEN.

IT WAS A GRADUAL PROCESS OF HUNDREDS OF YEARS THAT WAS INITIATED SINCE BEFORE GREECE HAD RISEN TO PROMINENCE.

The amount of technology lost by the fall of the Roman empire (concrete and steam engines) ment western europe was thrust into a feudal-style survival mode(small isolated communities), it became known as the dank ages because so little information was written about the era.

Yeah

Can you name one great monumental structure in the British Isles before 300AD? or one in the vicinity of the Rhine?

>>505733
Stonehenge

>>502947
They died, mostly of Plague.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian

The wiki does not go into the details of the follow up out breaks but I have done reading on the subject my self. 30 years after the first out break the population of the areas active in trade inside Europe and the Mediterranean was maybe was low as 40% of what the population had been before.For some cities that were heavily into maritime trade it was as low as 20% of the population they had before hand. That is inside the mortality range of small pox out breaks among native American.

Or to put it another way the trans regional grains market that was functional in France and England did not restart on a permanent year to year bases till around ~1130.

It's what happens after a civilisation collapses. Cities are deserted, people return to the simple rural life that always stayed the same.

Read Spengler.

>>506424
There is a podcast called the history of byzantine and there is a whole episode about the Justinian plague.

>>505002
>The Dark Ages at best should be seen as the beginning of the middle ages and a transitionary period.
that's why its actual name is the "early middle ages" and why the anon you responded to said what he did

>>503624
>modern art degeneracy
What's wrong? 2 deep 4 u?

>>506548
thanks, I will check it out.

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>>502966
post yfw muslims take over europe in 20 years and blow all this stuff up

>>506620
Literally impossible.

>>503615

I love medieval cathedrals and admire the artists who created them as well despite not being religious at all, but he is arguably sort of right

>>504958
>that post wasn't even fedora-tier
>>504964
>spiritual development was communal development
>Catholic Chruch
>spiritual development
for fuck's sake
>>505045
>he doesn't know that both the church and the nobility gave away massive amounts of cash to the community, giving food and alms to the poor, setting up schools and managing hospitals. Not to mention providing hundreds of years worth of employment to people building and supplying cathedrals and other churchs.

Kek. They got the money maybe the 1% of which they redistributed from the people themselves. The system of the Middle Ages relied on the ruthless exploitation of the lower castes, and you can't deny that. I'm not hating it or anything, I understand history and everything has its course of development. But you really do sound like you'd support Trump (or whoever the muh heritage corrupt nepotist billionare politician of your country is.)

>>508004

> points out the medieval church didn't just sit on its wealth and helped people
> hurrrrr must be a trump supporter
> muh 1% buzz statistic

There was some lost technology and science in Medieval Europe. More important was the structural degeneration of the economy (loss of trade networks and commercial practices, in particular) that characterized the 3rd-10th centuries.
Changing values also had an impact on the figurative art. You don't see huge naturalistic statues or paintings because the human body isn't valorized in that way in Medieval Christianity.