How have standards of beauty changed over time? Is it true that

>>461213
I remember a documentary about someplace in Africa where young women were put on hypercaloric diets to become more desirable brides. I guess when a fetish becomes widespread enough it stops being a fetish for those people.

>>461225

in cultures where there's not as much food, fatness became desirable as it signalled wealth or that the wife was well looked after

>Is it true that fat women used to be more desirable
No, all those claims are based on Rubens who was a fat fetishist, and prehistoric fertility goddesses.

The medieval female ideal was thin and graceful. Since the Renaissance it became a bit thicker, with bigger ass but small breasts. In the early 20th century it became skinny, then it changed a lot during the century.

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>>461213
>then
malnourished woman produce weak offspring or die themselves in labor. ideal was a well fed woman that can produce healthy offspring

>now
androgyn looking females that resemble a boyish undeveloped body type, much in the tradition once alive in ancient greece, rome and other cultures (old arabian proverb - "women for children, boys for pleasure").

>>461213
historically "fat" should be understood as something along the lines of "thick." modern flab golems would be just as unattractive then as they are now

>>461213
A weird thing I noticed is that pretty much only the perception of female beauty has changes over the years. Males were pretty much always regarded as beautiful if they were strong and well build.

Also, our modern pornography is influencing the way that we view beauty quite profoundly. Since porn is something that can be mass-produced, the quality of said porn is suffering. Our pornography is badly executed and focuses only on the satisfaction of mere lust. Porn should be about the appriciation of a person's beauty (both male and female). Porn of past civilisations managed to archive this goal, but once again, our technology is getting in the way.

>>461213
>Is it true that fat women used to be more desirable because it meant they were well fed? I'm curious about how are perception of beauty is instinctual as opposed to what we are taught.

no that's a myth, but beauty standards can and do change. In the renaissance the ideal was slender with a kind of pot belly, but for some reason people think pudginess was sought after.

Attractiveness is based on health, symmmetry and youthfulness, which are consistent, averageness which is almost always consistent barring significant events such as the contact of unknown peoples, and fetishism, such as the big tits fetish of the 80s and 90s or the big ass fetish of nowadays.

There are more subtle influences too, but they are harder to describe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koinophilia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averageness
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoteny

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>>461213
>Is it true that fat women used to be more desirable because it meant they were well fed?

This has been said about certain historic hunter gatherer societies but by the time of agriculture this seems to be less true.

Not as rail thin as some of today's models or fitness girls but not really fat by today's standards, unlike what people might think people weren't bordering on starvation for their entire lives.

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>>461273
Long legs and thin waists used to be in vogue during a few time periods though.

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>>461274
women were desirable if they were chubby (not fat) because the most attractive trait about somebody at that point was that they didn't go hungry every other meal
this is an example of rococo art, where you will find the standard of beauty for french nobility in its truest form. All of the art I've seen has had fairly chubby women in it

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>>461213
>Is it true that fat women used to be more desirable because it meant they were well fed?

No.

>>461287
>dat ass so good you lose your head

>>461281

a girl being chubby and curvy must have driven men wild tho, regardless of time period

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>>461296
Perhaps.

>>461213
Most of Saharan and Sahelian Africa has an old preference for fat women. Not merely thick but chubby and fat.

Thick is still preferred, skinniness is in Vogue in small circles but fattening camps still exist for sure.

>>461258

>Cara Delevingne is considered a 10 in the UK

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>>461258
/this

>>461258
Obesity is a risk factor during pregnancy

>>461377
only for the woman because she is fat and may have a heart attack because of the stress, not for the baby

>>461379
What do you think happens to the baby when the mother gets a heart attack, you bright bulb?

>>461379
Women used to have far more children than they do nowadays

I imagine mother getting a heart attack after giving birth to a few children wouldn't have been desirable even then

>>461225
Mauritania

http://www.vice.com/video/the-fat-farms-of-mauritania

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18141550/ns/health-health_care/t/mauritania-struggles-love-fat-women/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leblouh

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>>461213

Me after looking at OP's pic

>>461213
people i the olden days just had higher test levels

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>>461258
>androgyn looking females that resemble a boyish undeveloped body type

That's just your taste m8.

>>461258
Gay.

Everything is someone's fetish. The internet has really changed things.

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You could look at their works of art.

Venus tends to not be fat in artwork, for example.

http://www.femininebeauty.info/skinny-fashion-models
http://www.femininebeauty.info/sexually-antagonistic-selection
http://www.femininebeauty.info/feminine-vs-masculine

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>>462921
Here is the wife of Emperor Charles V, widely considered a great beauty in her era.

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>>461258
>>461322
These guys are gay. Perhaps closet homosexuals who have been lying to themselves about their sexual orientation for decades

>>462926
>very skinny face

She obviously has a lot of clothing on you moron

>>461213
All I know is I want to spread my imperialism all over that

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>>462921
>>462926
And here is Nefertiti

>>461258
You're bi, anon. Just admit it

>>462942
I don't think he was disagreeing with you

>>461369
wellp. gay now.

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>>463390

Dayum. I don't care if I'm dooming the white race, I want to nut way up in that

There's all the Greek statues and paintings since then, probably not the fat you're thinking about.

>>461213
Beauty is roughly the same, but you looked for thick ladies because that meant they could afford to gorge themselves.

I would say that ideals of facial beauty don't change very much. Nefertiti was considered a beauty in her time and people would still say she is beautiful. You can look at old portraits of popular society women and still find their faces pretty. I do think certain kinds of faces go in and out of style (the top beauties of the 1910s and 20s had cuter, more childlike faces than are currently popular but they wouldn't be considered ugly). The facial ideal does seem to shift towards making a woman merely cute or pretty instead of gorgeous but doesn't shift enough to make what we'd consider to be an ugly woman a beautiful one in another era, or vice versa.

Grooming does change. People used not to care about body hair, for instance.

Body shape seems to change the most but a fat figure has never been the universal ideal, it is the case in certain cultures and eras and individuals (like Rubens) but the ideal body has varied. There are times when plumper is preferable and other times when thinner is preferable. Same thing with breasts, the ideal varied. Lastly I think that without mass media there was a less unified idea of what ideal could look like, I've a collection of old Victorian rags and there was a story about two stage actresses getting into a brawl. One was much more slender and the other (the lead) was noted to be 165 pounds. They were both considered beautiful.

Around the same time period the Floradora girls were selected for being the same height and weight, 5'4" and 130 pounds. I think people's preferences were broader or more flexible.

Standards of beauty are about symmetry, health, and wealth. That has never changed.

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beauty is a patriarchal construct

>>461258
>proverb
thats afghani, and you left out the best part.

>>461213
Fatness was a sign of status, not beauty. Wifing guides from nearly every era recommend you have them run to stay less than obese.

>>464693
I don't understand the relevance of this picture.

Fat people were desirable because only fat people were rich

>>464806
>only fat people were rich

you mean:

>only rich people were fat

>>463705
>It's okay for white guys to racemix
>But if white girls do it, they're whores!
Hello /pol/

>>465199
Well, to be frank, the guy is correct.
Impregnating another races women doesn't really hurt, as long as our women don't mix.

>>465910
You'd still piss away your race's genes if you were to mix. Regardless of gender.

>>462926
She's really cute.

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>>464696
the watermelon?

>>461258
anon is right, it's been shifting towards it, the older generations still likes tits and ass, but the younger its all, emmas, caras and other fuccboi androngynies.

>>465925
Yes, but it's much more harmful for women to be impregnated by a man of another race.

>>465959
>Much more harmful
In what way? You're still having a child that only partially looks like you depending on the race.

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>>461213
Of course beauty standards have changed. But then again, they've never been completely constant no matter the time or culture.

There are still a few key things that usually stick for everyone regardless. Signs of youth like smooth skin, a symmetrical face, healthy looking eyes, signs of fertility and health like rotund breasts and ass.

>>466005
Because women are needed to materially care for the child, and the resources put into her for all those years are "wasted". It's difficult to argue without going into "harmful" terminology.

I'm not saying it's good either way, but one is better than the other.

>>461213
>In the effort to set themselves apart from plowboys and milkmaids—- that is, working and rural youth—- middle-class daughters chose to pursue a body configuration that was small, slim, and essentially decorative. By eating only tiny amounts of food, young women could disassociate themselves from sexuality and fecundity and they could achieve an unambiguous class identity. The thin body not only implied asexuality and an elevated social address, it was also an expression of intelligence, sensitivity, and morality. Through control of appetite Victorian girls found a way of expressing a complex of emotional, aesthetic, and class sensibilities.
>Joan Jacobs Brumberg- The Appetite as Voice

>>466103
>women
>intelligence
Ha

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>>461213
When they say "fat women used to be pretty" they meant being about 30 pounds over weight.

This is about what would constitute 'fat'

>>466103
>In the effort to set themselves apart from plowboys and milkmaids
the thought of a thick milkmaid eyeing yuh up after a long day of work is much more appealing than the latter

>>464722
Just some /pol/tard trying to point out that this woman has a biracial and a white child. I don't know who really gives a fuck except for other /pol/tards.

>>466641

>Just some /pol/tard trying to point out that this woman has a biracial and a white child. I don't know who really gives a fuck except for other /pol/tards.

Not quite. It is a person pointing out that this woman has children with 2 different men and is currently single. For any normal male this should be a warning sign that this woman at the very least makes rash decisions and more likely would be a poor choice for a partner.

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>>463390
tfw no 11/10 black gf

>>461379
>>461389
>>461406
Actually children born to obese mothers have slower intellectual development and a higher chance of being born with health issues.
Read it in an article a while back while debating someone but I can't seem to find it now.

>>466716
>For any normal male

For any normal human, to be honest.

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>>466011
Nah man even rotund tits and ass have shifted in and out of fashion. People think the stars of the 50s where curvaceous but view them from the side and you realize they had wide hips and small bums. Elizabeth Taylor had a modest butt, as did Marylin Monroe, they did however had wide hips and teensy waists. From the 1920s (when bathing suits were tight enough to make observations about it) to the 1960s models and leading ladies have had modest size bums, though the preferred hip size relative to waist did vary.

Marilyn is a pretty woman but I don't think she has a rotund butt at all in pic related, and this is for a promotional film set in a decade popularly known for a curvaceous preference.

>>463494
But there is no problem dude, as long as you don't have a child

>>461213
>People of the past were a huge hive mind and only in recent times have we gained any sort of independent thought.

I want off of this wild ride.

I think the girl in op's pic is nice looking. anyone agree?

>>470835
yes

Greece and Rome: We've more than enough of their art available to see their standards of beauty. Not fat.

4-8C: Northern Europe- poverty and warrior culture, not fat (might be perceived as desirable, but would be impossible to reach what is considered obesity now). Western and Eastern Europe- heavily Christian, Gluttony is a sin, not fat.

8-15 C: Europe largely hardcore christian, Gluttony is a deadly sin, fat is sinful and undesirable.

16-18C: Scientific Revolution and Renaissance: Obese people are less healthy and Rome and Greece set beauty standards. Not fat.

18-19 C: Romanticism, 'natural' is good, animals don't get fat in nature. Fat is not beautiful.

1900s: Ask your grandmother if your grandfather thought fat chicks were hot. You know the beauty standards of later years.

Anything before Greece/Rome is a fucking nightmare to decipher to any degree of accuracy.

>>471490
And I'm aware this is Euro-centric, think of it as a case study.

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>>461289
Yeah, when I see those old statues I suddenly realize that old timey people just liked a slightly plumper Remy Lacroix style body type.

Has there ever been a culture where darker skin was considered the feminine ideal? I don't mean tan.

>>472634
In pre-colonial Yorubaland coal black skin was seen as ideal and the more common brown was seen as plain.

>>471450
ty