Why has eastern European been so behind western Europe for

Large serf population under constant eastern invasion

Late to industrialize

Communism

define eastern europe

>>394342
East of modern Germany/Balkans

Feudalism literally didn't end there until 1991, and even then you could make the argument it didn't end at all.

>>394354
well then you are incorrect, places like poland, hungary and bohemia (and later czechoslovakia) were at times comparable with the "west" - in fact, being culturally a part of the "west" for a longer period in that timeframe than not, their being on the other side of that divide being a recent(ish) development and a result of soviet postwar meddling

>>394365
Loving
Every
Laugh

>>394313
Mongol Invasions fucked up Russians pretty hard which in turn fucked Eastern Euros pretty hard

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>>394313
I don't know mayne, all I wanna know is how to get her to break my knees and facesit me to death.

>>394372
No, he is correct. That is the objective modern definition. The places you mentioned were always considered eastern otherwise. Just because some of it was "compatible to the west" doesnt not make it western

You only responded because of your own vanity and to sound contrarian and intelligent but you know you are wrong and just want to hear yourself speak.

>>394393
how the fuck was Czechia, Hungary and Poland not pretty much western before Russia/communism?

>>394313
Because we had to deal with the ottomans, the tatars , , huns and mongols while you westfags sat on your asses and evolved slowly, under our shields.

Sometimes, I really wish my forefathers would've just let the turks pass through our country and let them fuck you westfags .

>>394406
Well, you're slavs, to start.

>>394406
Completely missing the point of the thread, this is what modern american education has created

>>394393
uhh what
the eastern-western divide most prevalent right now is a result of the geopolitics of the latter half of the 20th century
in, for example, medieval times bohemia was an integral part of the hre, an elector no less, the only kingdom of the empire, a christian realm
in the late 19th century and the transition to czechoslovakia it was one of the more advanced countries on the continent, a democratic republic, with a gdp comparable to that of spain or the netherlands

>>394313
In Antiquity was European "main driving" area around Mediterranean Sea. Later it moved to Western Europe mostly thanks to naval long-range trade and Age of discoveries. Eastern countries were always disadvantaged, their development wasn't kickstarted by Romans, natural conditions were worse and they were often ruined by Asian invaders (Huns, Avars, Magyars, Tatars, Osmans, Soviets etc.).

>>394313
Turds and commies.
Next question.

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>>394313
Because they are preserving what it means to be European for the coming 'dark' ages.

Do you really think Sweden will outlast even a debt-ridden Greece?

όχι

Have you ever noticed that everywhere that got Wrecked by the Mongols, East Europe, Middle East, Central Asia, has been behind since then?

Czechoslovakia was on the developmental level of the Netherlands prior to the cold war and one of the most industrialized countries on the planet.

but muh bohemians

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>>394313
>600 years

>>394423
>Hungarians are Slavs
>being Slav or not was at any point the dividing factor
>American education

>>394606
Yeah, Russia used to be better.

>>394313

No american settlements
Trapped between russia, turkey and western countries (no expansion possible)
Which leads to less economical development, and late industrialization.
Finally USSR influence

>>394423
ethnicity or language was not a factor insofar as an east/west divide could be constructed in the middle ages - religion was

sheeit are there two threads about the same topic right now here on /his/

ottomans were a huge problem that held down eastern europe for a huge amount of time

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>600 years

Stereotypes, racism and propaganda. Le ebin unarmed Soviet zerg rush. The dramatic economic disparity didn't appear until industrialization and wasn't that big until the latter half of the 20th century due to the diametrical economic development of capitalism and communism. This chart doesn't feature Russia but you can imagine what it would look like.

In what sense do you consider them backwards? They had up-to-date militaries, they put out internationally recognized culture, their GDP was on par with the rest of Europe until the period mentioned, and so on and so on.

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>>394692
>Maddison

Guy has been dead for a while now and a lot of his work were just guesses.

I'm not saying there is anything better to compare Eastern and Western Europe but we should look for more recent work.

>>394692

Keep in mind that Russia did survive a world war, a revolution, a civil war, another world war, and economic blockade during the cold war... so ya know.

>>394704
I picked first thing I found. The narrative is the same anyway.

I'd just like to point out that eastern europe as a cold war definition doesn't work within this 600 years context

It's really Russian, Ruthenian and Ottomen lands (very broadly).
>>394507
somewhat this, but I'd also like to add the disconnectedness from critical 16th century (and onwards) european events, like the rise of enlightenment, humanism and protestant prolifiration of the printed press

>>394313
Rome didn't set infrastructure in place

Really, I don't know. Maybe a culmination of things like not being cultural descendants of the Romans, getting rekt by Mongols, It's fucking cold, geographical isolation compared to Western Europe (Western Europe has the Mediterranean)

>>394710
Not entirely, North Western Europe started diverging from Europe as a whole while Europe wad diverging from China from roughly 1200-1300 AD. onward.

Absolutely nobody considered Bohemia to be eastern until the cold war, and Hungary with Poland were kind of inbetween. Especially Poland which always interacted with the Eastern, Orthodox Slavs like Ukrainians and Belarusians.

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>>394711
>I'd just like to point out that eastern europe as a cold war definition doesn't work within this 600 years context
ding ding ding

>>394692
Even during medieval period (or especially?) were Eastern European countries several decades behind compared to Western Europe.

>>394729
yeah but I'm confused, are the 'americans' conflating all of us as Russians or is it just good ol' slav=slave, death to barbarian easterners racism meme?

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Communism caused the main economic rift between the former Austro-Hungarian countries.

Picrelated is a GDP per capita graph, red = Czechoslovakia, blue = Austria.

You could probably make a similar comparison between Estonia and Finland and get the same graph.

>>394595
>what it means to be European

Nothing? An identity completely constructed by those pushing for the EU, aka Western European neo-imperialists with a vague set of "values" they think can apply to every corner of an entire continent

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>>394744
>tfw Eastern European but not slav and still backwards and used by everyone

>>394742
>during medieval period
>several decades behind
>DECADES

don't use video games for historical information

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>>394756
>European identity didn't exist before the EU

>>394757
Hungary?

>>394744
>are the 'americans' conflating all of us as Russians
It's this. Like the shit about squatting, sunflower seeds and carpets on the wall are specifically a Russian thing, but westerners seem to think it's the norm all across East Europe.

>>394771
hungarians are slavs, the ugro thing is just a huge linguist conspiracy :^)

>>394771
Romania, at least Hungary's got a semblance of backbone.

>>394778
>sunflower seeds
To be honest though

>>394780
What are you then? Romanian? Lithuanian?

>>394742
Poland had one of the most enlightened and progressive systems of government and got destroyed because progress is a fucking meme.

Byzantium was fucking Byzantium. And the Ottomans were quite potent for the first couple of centuries.

Russia barely existed.

>>394764
It was directly connected to a pan-European ideal
So yes it preceded the EU, but fed right into it

The important thing to take away is Europeanism tended to ignore the East

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>>394754
>mfw seeing that graph

>>394796
Well the notion of a single European country / union is more recent, but probably even a peasant in the most backwood village in Poland understood that he's an European.

>>394807
I don't know, man, one of my 8-year old students didn't know he lives in Europe.

>>394780
Well the identity of being a Slav, Hungarian on German are all linguistic constructs. A Russian probably couldn't be any more different from a Serb genetically, but they're both Slavs since they speak a Slavic language.

>>394807
>probably even a peasant in the most backwood village in Poland understood that he's an European
average illiterate Polish peasant didn't know the world outside of his own village + maybe a few neighbouring villages

until, like, 30ties, they didn't even tend to call themselves polish, instead preferring to refer to themselves as "tutejsi" or "miejscowi" (both meaning "indigenous")

european identity is definitely a very modern thing, post-WW2 at very least

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>>394819
>are all linguistic constructs

LIDF pls go

>>394807
I doubt that just considering it's a "peasant in the most backwood village in Poland"

Just because you know what continent you live on doesn't mean you're gonna identify with that place over your community, region, country, religion, linguistic group, etc.

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>>394842
>Hungarian folk costumes

On this pic is a Slovak folk costume. You could barely tell Hungarians and Slovaks apart if it wasn't for them speaking different languages.

>>394796
Didn't Napoleon already cherish the ideal of a European state?

Besides that you should realize that at least most monarchs were related and a significant part of Europe spoke French before the French revolution. Guys like Frederick the Great all the way in Prussia would typically converse in French. In that regard the upper layers of Europe had a similar culture at least.

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>>394875
that's what I was implying, albeit somewhat memetically

>>394876
never mind that, guys like Catherine the >she conversed in dirty french while pegging her fuccbois

so, Russia in EU when?

>>394909
Well she was more or less German too wasn't she?

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>>394921
>Sophie Friederike Auguste von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg

100% slav ))))))

>>394875
>barely tell Hungarians and Slovaks apart
because Slovaks are Hungarians in denial, duh

>>394943
Or Hungarians are Slovaks in denial, either way works I guess. They're the same people.

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>>394756
>He proposed a treaty among all Christian powers, with Germany (then including Bohemia), France, and Italy and its princes the founding members, but others, especially the Hispanic powers, joining later. The member states would pledge to settle all differences by exclusively peaceful means. There was to be a common parliament and other common institutions and supranational insignia.
>twf nobody listened

>>394938
Are you implying that Austrians and East Germans are in fact Slavs?

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>>394966
am I?

Hey /his/, what is Central Europe?

>>395027
Euphemism for Grossdeutschland in use until about 1945. Currently an empty concept.

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>>395027
we can't even agree on a geographical center m8...

>>394334

/thread

Basically institutions that grant positive economic incentives to work, innovate, invest and divide labor haven't existed long enough to make catch the gap between them and western Europe if we go with Acemoglu's inclusive vs extractive institutions explanation.

As recently as the 18th century Eastern Europeans were still being raided and taken into slavery by the 10s of thousands by the Tatars and others.

>>395293
>Russians and Ukrainians = all Eastern Europeans

Can this meme die already?

>>395367
Jцsт givэ цp м8 дnd эмвrace iт )))))))

>>394720
How was Hungary "inbetween"?

>>394313
I wonder what happened to eastern Europe 600 years ago
>1450
I wonder what happend...

>>395367
Can the mitteleuropa meme die already?

>>395027
An imperialistic concept encompassing the territories of Germany and Austria-Hungary

>>395367
cyka etc

>>395444
Fuck Mitteleuropa, just accept that Eastern Europe isn't a synonym for Russia, just like Western Europe isn't a synonym for France.

>>395452
Well, then we fucking are Central Europe

I don't know why autists on /int/ get triggered when we call ourselves that

>>395464
Because western rulers and aristocrats don't make up for the fact that the masses are bydlo slavs

I think we can agree that Europeans and Indians are basically the same people, since they share the language group.

>India
>Italy

>Persia
>Belgia

literally, it's all the same.

>>395476
There was a ton of Slavic aristocrats in Austria-Hungary, or even Germany. Baldur von Schirach for example.

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>>395521
That wasn't the point.

Ataturk was a westernized militant atheist, but look at Turks.

>>395535
Even the bydlos were westernized m8.

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>>395535
I'm sorry Ataturk

so sorry

>>395548
you should be apologizing to constantine and jesus

>>395560
They can fuck off, berk.

>>395535
Hey turkey is doing pretty well though ofcourse there are some problems with freedom of press etc but everyone outside of western europe has that.

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>>395491
India, Italy, Persia, and Belgia [sic] are fictitious modern creations. Aryans, Romans, Aryans and Aryans again, respectively as per "country", are related. But not arr rook same, Ahmed.

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>>394406
>how the fuck was Czechia, Hungary and Poland not pretty much western before Russia/communism?

Czechia, Hungary and Poland were essentially no different then Western Europe prior to the Mongol invasions of 1241 but even afterward, these were "western" nations and Eastern Europe didn't start until one got to the Russian border.

>>394393
There is something called central Europe you gigantic faggot. Arguably Germany is in it, just look at the fucking map and draw lines around Europe and see where they meet.

>>394313
Russia

The funny thing is that communism was the most western Russia ever was.

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>no mention of Hajnal line

Check it out, OP. It explains everything.

Loaded question. It wasn't behind for the past 600 years, more like the past 200 (Russia, the Balkans) or 60 (Austria-Hungary).

>>396747
>It explains everything.
If we're going by your picture, it doesn't exactly explain the wealth in Austria.

Honestly, Occam's razor says it's communism. All evidence seems to be pointing that way and it's the most likely explanation.

Lack of developed credit system and financing. They got into that way after we did.

>>396793
You're putting the egg before the chicken. Eastern Europe* fell to communism because it wasn't as developed as western Europe.
*with the exception of czecho-slovakia & hungary, which were subjugated to communism

>>396747
Hajnal is a hack

Not only does nuptiality have little to do with everything else (at best, it's a secondary, tenous relation with economic and scientific growth and so on), the assumption was made in 1960s (and even then, the claim was barely true) and it's blatantly false today.

>>396831
And East Germany, Croatia, Slovenia, the Baltics, etc, even Poland (which was never as developed as say, Germany, but they were certainly better off than Spain or Portugal). In other words pretty much everyone except for Russia and the orthodox part of the Baltics.

And in Russia's case, it's even easier to explain.

>Mongol yoke
>no renaissance
>no industrial revolution

>>396839
>of the Baltics

Meant Balkans, my bad.

>>396831
>Eastern Europe fell to communism because it wasn't as developed as western Europe.

No, you're the one with the chicken and the egg, eastern europe as a concept that exists today began post ww2.

On one hand you have factors like the allies deciding to support commie partisans in Yugoslavia (it could have easily been the other way, with allies supporting monarchists).

On the other hand you have blatant outliers, like Finland and Greece.

>>396831
Basically the entirety of Eastern Europe with the exception of the USSR was subjugated to communism post WW2.

>>394938
>Germans manage to take the crowns of both Russia and Great Britain

On top of WWI, WWII, and the EU, can we all agree that the Hun is perfidious?

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>>396741
"no"

>>396914
This. Dude even wanted to introduce latin script and protestantism to Russia, he was that much of a westernboo, only the backwards boyars cockblocked him.

If you look at St. Petersburg (the original architecture, not the commieblock Soviet horseshit that was added later), it looks as western as it gets.

>>396931
>>396914
"no"

Communist ideology is deeply entrenched in western thought. This c'uck can't match that at all.

Look at China for an even more grotesque example.

>>396852
>No, you're the one with the chicken and the egg, eastern europe as a concept that exists today began post ww2.
I'm not talking about a concept, I'm talking about an area. An area that had been lagging behind western Europe for centuries prior to the October revolution.

>>396972
Peter was no c.uck. He just saw western culture as being superior to the Mongolian Russian shitheap and wanted to emulate it. Kind of like Charlemagne emulated Roman customs, nothing c.uck about that, just a desire to improve your nation.

>>396972
>Communist ideology is deeply entrenched in western thought.
Yet practical socialism in Russia only spawned Asiatic - tier despots which isn't western at all.

>>397005
>it's Asiatic when Russia does it

What is "Asiatic" about jets, nuclear bombs, submarines and covert operations?

>>397011
That's just technology. The rigid oppressive autocracy is very much an Asiatic trait. Look at China for example, they were championing police state when Europeans didn't even know it exists as a concept.

>>397033
So you mean that highly intricate bureaucracies and rigid oppressive autocracy characterizes Mongolian "civilization"?

>>396986
What area then?

Because parts that weren't lagging behind western Europe (as has been established in this thread as well) fell to communism too...

And on the other hand, Bosnia for example (which had been lagging behind western Europe for centuries) is only Eastern European in the cold war sense.

So, what again, what area are you talking about?

>>397062
Absolutely. You can see how in Mongolian, Chinese or Russian culture a strong, oppressive leader is seen as a demigod while in western culture he'd be considered an evil tyrant.

>>394705
>economic blockade during the cold war.

Only long term economic blockade they had to deal with were arms embargo and limitations of dual use items, stuff that would improve their military capabilities. Basically no one had any problems with FIAT licensing what was seen as most modern car back in mid 60's to Soviets and setting up factory to built 'em in Soviet Union. Toshiba scandal was a scandal because they supplied Soviets with CNC milling machines suitable for making better propellers for submarines.

>>397113
>western culture

you mean, anglo culture

Germany, France, Italy, Spain, etc. were perfectly happy with their demigods (on occassions) even post 1789.

>>397131
Out of those countries you're correct only about Spain and even in Spain it was never as glaring as in Russia.

As for Germany, while Hitler was indeed a bloody dictator, he was an utter cunt mostly against Jews and foreigners, not his own people like the Russian autocrats from Ivan the terrible onwards.

The late Romanovs are probably the only exception to that, especially Alexander II.

>>394313
>why has Eastern Europe been so behind the West

I'd say geography and population was the biggest factor.

Western Europe is home to multiple population centers that are relatively close to each other, making travel between them relatively easy no matter what time period you are talking about. This relatively compactness of peoples and ease of travel made trade and the exchange of ideas easy and each culture was able to take from it and advance.

the Steppes of Russia and Ukraine, however, are a different story. Population centers are very distant from each other and travel between major cities was often a long and arduous journey. Traders would often not make the harsh journey to Novogorod or Kiev because of the distance involved compared other trade routes such as Milan to Rome.

With fewer traders willing to make the journey, wealth and the exchange of ideas was mitigated due to the harshness of traversing the steppes to connect each of the major cities. It would take weeks for Moscow to hear anything from Kiev, months even in wintertime, so traffic between Eastern population centers was kept to a minimum to Russia's detriment.

Peter the Great was the gamechanger though, with founding Russia's first major European port as a "window to the West" Trade and the exchange of ideas boomed to put the Russian Empire on a fast track and became a major European power because of it. New ports like Sevastopol, Odessa, and Riga only further boosted this, but by that time it was still too late, that Eastern Europe was always in a game of catchup to the West on account of distance to travel and the willingness of travelers to make the journey.

TL;DR Russia/the east has shit geography no one wants to deal with, cutting communication, Russia has to expand to more favorable territory to remedy this.

"Backwards" Eastern European parts: ex-Russian and ex-Ottoman

"Developed" parts: ex-Austro Hungarian and ex-German

It's really no rocket science.

>>397145
>Russia is the entire Eastern Europe

Again this meme.

>>397138
>correct only about spain
So, we're gonna just ignore an almost absolutist monarchy going full fascist, a manlet with literal demigod delusions, a deformed autist, curtailing the powers of parliament because he wanted to play soldiers, etc. ?

convenient...

>>397156
>an almost absolutist monarchy going full fascist
What are you referring to?

>>397156
>>397138


oh I'm sorry, I misread you, you're going for the "brutal police state" angle

Well, a lot of Russian history doesn't fit that then..
It doesn't just magically roll from Ivan the not that great into Nikky.


And contrary to memetical belief, Putin Russia isn't the bleak police state of soviet times

>>397167
I think Putin is much softer than people believe him to be, but he actually has to roll with the "le evil badass tsar /Bond villain" meme because Russian people love their autocrats.

>>397171
I think there's a relatively big divide in perception between the west and russia and westerners trying to project have to be careful...

You have to realise, they've been on "the other side of the fence" for a century now.
They probably see Putin as a leader who will successfully hold the tide of western imperialism (whether or not this is a realistic concern is another thing).

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>>395636
>of course there are some problems with freedom of press etc

There's a fucking understatement, but that discussion is far more /pol/ than /his/, maybe in twenty years or so we can talk about it here.

>>397161
Alternate universe Mussolini maybe?

>>397210
Yeah I was thinking he meant Mussolini, but Mussolini neither had absolute power (there was still the king sort of keeping him in check), nor was Italy ever an absolutist monarchy.

>>394802

Did you notice a funny detail? Note the starting year being 1948. Commies were ahead for few years after end of WWII. Reason is simple. They had far less labor issues to deal with. Pointing with a gun and mentioning a nearby ditch is usually faster than shit like negotiating with unions about wages.

>>397243
Actually no, it's just that commies took over in Czechoslovakia exactly in 1948 (the February coup) and commie laws and policies weren't fully implemented until the early 50s.

>>394313
Because those niggers had to deal with invasions from the yellow horde, invasions from the fucking Muslim horde, and then they had to deal with the absolutely pants on head retarded communists.

>>397243
gommies were not in power between 45 and 48

>>394392
be ur self

Slavs are born Slaves.

It was mainly beacause western european countries turned to the sea, trading with the whole world, eventually finding America and reaching the far east

Because everyone in the world was behind Western Europe?

You probably thought there was a "European civilisation". No such thing exists, there is only Western civilisation, and its core doesn't go farther East than Austria.

>>398030
>Hungary and Bohemia not being a part of western civilization for 1000+ years

>>398044
Can't really think of anything they've contributed tbqh.

>>398048
There's plenty, but being a part of a civilizational / cultural sphere isn't about "contribution."

>>398057
Being part of a civilisation's core is about contribution.

I mean nowadays Africa and Japan are Westernised too, doesn't mean shit.

>>398069
Fine: Dvorak, Smetana, Mucha, Capek, Divis, Hus, Comenius, Wichterle, Forman, Heyrovsky, Bartok, Rubik, Liszt, Jedlik, Petzval, Gabor, Barany, Wigner, Szent-Gyorgy etc.

I still don't see how that's relevant, a country like Iceland contributed fuck all yet nobody is challenging their western history.

>>398095
>ignoring based Sigur Ros
>ignoring "one flew over the kekoo's nest" bjork
>ignoring Eidur Gudjohnsen

Fuck right off pleb.

>>398106
>some shitty hipster band and a 3rd rate soccer player are comparable to nobel laureates, classical composers and inventors

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>>398114

>>398095
Literally never heard a single one of those names, except Dvorak. Pretty sure the West would have survived without him.

>>398131
>>398095
Oh and Bartok and Liszt.

Do you have anything other than second rate composers?

>>398131
Then you're a retard obviously. Simply googling those names would help.

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>>398134
What are you even trying to suggest? If you want to go the pleb route, fine, but was getting yourself caught as an uneducated faggot part of your master plan?

>>398095
>ignoring the Icelandic Sagas

>>398095
Western core countries are France and its immediate neighbours (Italy, Spain, Britain, Netherlands, Germany), with less essential contributions from Portugal, Austria, and Scandinavia. Beyond that, other countries might as well never have existed.

>>398131
>>398106
>you're a pleb because you don't know Eidur Gudjonsen (literally who?)
>but not knowing the Nobel laureates in physics and chemistry is totally not pleb

>>398145
The fact that nobody knows any of the people you listed kind of goes against your claims of relevance.

>>398153
This desu.

>>398157
The fact you resort to listing fucking soccer players as contributors to anything means you're cranking the meme machine up to 11.

>>398167
That wasn't me senpai.

>>398170
I wasn't >>398145 either.

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>>398172
>>398170

I am >>398145
And also >>398155
>>398157
>>398162
>>398167

>>398095
But anon, Icelanders have blonde hair!
Also, Vikings! VIKINGS!

How can Liszt's symphonies compare to spiked helmets!

>>394313
>uneducated opinions, the thread

Tell that to the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth.
Tell that to the Czechs

Besides, plenty of areas of western Europe were underdeveloped.

>>398095
>a country like Iceland contributed fuck all yet nobody is challenging their western history.

Iceland is more than a bit smaller than Hungary or Czech republic. Current population is around 330k, 100 years ago it was less than 100k.

>>394375
that guy you lel at is right

you know shit about east europe

The Holy Roman Empire led to a lot of political divisions in the East, and so nations changed borders a lot and there was constant wars and upheaval up until the 20th Century or so. Hard to develop when every time you do so your city gets razed to the ground.

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You really have to draw a line between what is Eastern-Central Europe (Poland, Cz, Sk, Hungary, Slovenia, Croatia) and the rest. Czechia stands out even more being part of HRE.

These countries (or what they were part of, see Slovakia) became proper feudal christian kingdoms in the 10-11. century The edge of Europe at time was often understood as being the Carpathians and the marshes in (now) Belarus.

I read a good article once that used medieval travelogues (very huge but often underlooked genre) to see how these countries developped. Theres a clear difference between pre and post 1200s descriptions. Before you read about vast empty lands and forests, small villages, small towns, few stone buildings at all. Then descriptions change and you get more of a 'proper' western-like description. Much of this was properly triggered by reconstrucion after Mongols and due to large number of German and Frankish settlers. Hungary for example barely had a dozen stone castle before mongols (not so suprisingly, these all resisted sieges), the number explodes after 1242.


Also the Roman thing is not as relevant as many posters make it, most of Germany wasn't a province, while Romans had Dacia and Pannonia.

I'll drop a few more thought on the go.

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I don't know why many people islike it, but Central Europe is an useful concept, exactly for what I described above, it distuingishes between the bit latecomer catholic kingdoms and the orthodox realms.

Many people drop things about how these countries were not so connected with trade, but thats not true either. Rivers and roads were very busy, Vienna after all grew so great thanks to being an exchange port between Hungary and the HRE.

Also these countries were rich as fuck when it comes to natural goods.

Agriculturally, the drier, sunnier continental climate is way, way better for wheat and growing just about anything, these countries peoples barely knew about famine and didn't have to worry about pests as much.

The Carpathians even by todays standards still rich in ores, back then these mountains were loaded with gold, silver, all kinds of ores and most importantly salt. Hungary was Europe's main supplier of gold and salt, and together with Czechia mined most of the silver.

Before their collapse, these kingdoms reached a great high point in the 1400s. Prague and Buda hosted Europe's greatest gothic palaces, the library of king Matthias was second to the Vaticans, Rudolf's Prague became an European intellectual center, Krakkow and Buda were one of the firsts places where Renaissance took hold outside Itay. The mining towns of Czechia and Hungary were probably some of the richest in Europe.

All in all these three kingdoms followed a parallel line of development with Western Europe, with a slow and sure converging. Really the only thing they lacked was that few centuries they were 'late' by.

Then Poland and Hungary got lolfucked being the ground between German powers, Russia and Ottomans. There was simply nothing to avoid it unless you call in some deus ex stuff and magically defeat Turk early on or something.

Still development didnt stop. Transylvania was the first country to enact a law granting religious tolerance to all demoninations, printing press spread quite quickly to post-collapse Hungarian and Polish parts. The napoleonic wars caused such a massive income for Hungarian nobles (owning lot of unscathed land) they went on a palace building frenzy.

There were of course serious flaws that inhibited these parts. Feudalistic structures lived on till the 19. century, capital stayed in the hands of nobles unwilling to invest into manufacturing.

>>399277
>Transylvania was the first country to enact a law granting religious tolerance to all demoninations
To expand on that point for poland
Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was very tolerant. Jews fled here from all over Europe due to oppression, Tartars, Armenians, the Dutch, Germans were being settled here, many times seeking refuge.
The state was too democratic and liberal. All the nobles were equal in rights, they voted for a king. It didn't work out as it allowed foreign powers to meddle with our affairs.
As you can see nowadays, Poles ain't be taking this shit seriously. It's too late now, especially after nationalism took over the world.

American IPs should be banned on /his/. They know fuck all about history and clearly haven't got their own.

>>394876
Because he was a francophile fggt, not because the richest most powerful Prussian can afford regular travels to France and French classes youre gonna have normal Berliners speaking French.

In Russia's case at least it would be climate, terrain, and lack of warm water ports. With countries like Poland, Czechia, Hungary, and the Ukraine it is pretty much just communism. No Slavic country really did colonialism as so many were landlocked, which shut off that revenue stream for them.

Also, one thing that should be pointed out about Poland is that it is completely fucked geographically. No natural borders.

>>398878
>feudalism in '91

I'm Eastern European myself and you're retarded.

>>397161
The German state was always characterized by conservative militarism and realpolitik, but when they do it it's classy.

>>399905
>no natural borders

odra river? carpathians? Białowieża forest?

hello?