Persia: >Civilized country >Trade of material and knowledge

>>3353001
The movie as based on a comic. Now, how did the guy who wrote the comic get that idea?

If you read "The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" you will find lots of "the effeminate persians who had lots of luxuries, cared only about cool shit so they did battles in weird ways unlike the stern, manly greeks". This shit is also said by the arabs in many Hadith books.

>Do not become like the persians who only care about luxury

So there you go.

>but is there any reason Spartan can be seen as the good guys in the war?

Because muh clash of civilizations.

>>3353001
persians were also whiter than spartans

my ancestors :)

>>3353001
you could make some convoluted argument about the philosophical/political foundations for modern western civilization being based in a graeco-roman history that is dependent on Greeks not being conquered, but even that would be a stretch given how much of Hellenic culture was directly influenced by Persians.

so in a word, maybe?

Because we live on planet full of ignorant animals. The few ones, like us, that decided to sacrifice their youth to accumulate knowledge are bound to realize, sooner or later, that they've only waisted precious time. Listen to me you wanna know why the Spartans are perceived as the good guys? It's because they look cool in that movie. God is really dead like my faith in humanity

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Ionics>Dorians

>>3353074
where are the pottery shards boys looks like we got a traitor in this thread.

>>3353001
Everyone fucked little boys back then.

>>3353190
Spartan pedophilia is more systematic

>>3353001
>nigger tier
>practiced eugenics
>nigger
>eugenics
You are not very bright.

>>3353276
Blacks will always be better than wh*Te subhumans

>>3353001
The Spartan myth was created in antiquity. It's a classic example of muh intellectuals and historians creating Sparta into something it wasn't -- a highly militaristic society of iron-clad warriors defending Greece (and later the West in academic discourse) against a bizarre mystical people from the strange east.

It doesn't matter that about 30-40% of Sparta's society consisted of slaves who lived in utterly shit conditions, or the fact that the Persians actually defeated the Spartans at Thermopylae and laid waste to much of Greece, or that the Persians were objectively better, kinder rulers.

>>3353001
>literally practiced eugenics
>Uncivilized

Pick one, moralfag

>>3353276
This

>>3353276
What the fuck do you mean?
>>3353347
>t. Blackedposter

>>3353001
>Persians were objectively better, kinder rulers.

They were still violent imperialists who sought to subjugate all the peoples around them. Liberty is something the Greeks and other Westerners place value on.

+ Dont forget that it also produced rulers like Cambyses II.

>is there any reason Spartan can be seen as the good guys in the war?

Because of their courage, honor and dedication in fighting off a vastly superior enemy. +>>3353359 which tends to wash over the importance of people like the Athenians. - also bear in mind this isnt a modern meme but one that extends to ancient times with the Romans as well.

Likewise you are also have to remember that this was one of the greatest under dog victories in history for about 2000+ years a bunch of rag tag city states defeating the greatest and wealthiest empire in the world.

>>3353276
>thinking nigger has to do with skin color or genes
How fucking racist

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>>3353347
>Aesthetically less appealing
>Evolved for only equatorial climate
>Average IQ lower than the most intelligent silverback gorllias
>Practice cannibalism
>Lifespan of 30 in the wild
>More susceptible to diabetes
>Skin literally rots off in cold weather
>Animal genitals leftover from the Pleistocene
>Require constant food and water supplies from whites to survive
>Never advanced past even the most primitive stages of civilization
>Cannot run successfully govern themselves

You get the idea, so in what way are they superior? Or are you just shitposting?

>>3353276
Fuck off, /pol/. You dumb fucking nigger

Ignore and report

>>3353431
>They were still violent imperialists who sought to subjugate all the peoples around them. Liberty is something the Greeks and other Westerners place value on.
I am genuinely not sure if Persia concerning other places benefited them or not, but compare that to Romans, a western country that was also imperialist. Also Sparta forcing young boys to enlist and practicing eugentics is freedom now?

>Because of their courage, honor and dedication in fighting off a vastly superior enemy.
This returns to the first point of whether Persian imperialism helps the countries being conquered, how can you justify defending such barbaric practices against a civilizing force

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>>3353170
Go flog some helots, you knuckledragging barbaros

>>3353447
see >>3353440

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>>3353445
nice wall of insecurity wh*Te subhuman

>>3353447
Not an argument. Calling anyone you don't agree with /pol/ doesn't invalidate their statement. The performance of the Spartans at Thermopylae more than demonstrates the effectiveness of Sparta's eugenics.

>>3353469
Not an argument

>>3353431
>They were still violent imperialists who sought to subjugate all the peoples around them. Liberty is something the Greeks and other Westerners place value on.
hahahahaha
do you even read history, faggot?

>>3353452
>I am genuinely not sure if Persia concerning other places benefited them or not, but compare that to Romans, a western country that was also imperialist.

I think you are missing a sentence here what are you trying to demonstrate?

>Also Sparta forcing young boys to enlist and practicing eugentics is freedom now?

You know that Persia required its client states to provide them with soldiers and wealth right?

How do you think the Nubians (black people from Southern Egypt) would have felt being forced to enlist their sons to die in Greece, or Afghanistan to make a foreigner they had never met slightly richer?

Likewise you seem to be forgetting it wasnt Persia v Sparta but Persia v a coalition of free city states.

>This returns to the first point of whether Persian imperialism helps the countries being conquered

The Mongolians brought trade and eastern knowledge with them does that justify their brutal conquests?

>against a civilizing force

What makes you think they were a civilizing force? Part of their ruling style was leaving their client states culture alone its not like they were Romans or even British.

They were happy to:

-allow the Babylonians to practice selling women to be brides at auctions
-let the nomads who fought for them practice eugenics
- let middle eastern peoples force women to be temple prostitutes
-let the Egyptians obsess over animals

>>3353001
>good guys

this is how i know your're 12

>>3353603
>do you even read history, faggot?

I do the eastern style tyranny was something that flustered the Greeks hard and the Persians whilst not Assyrian tier were still military conquers.

>>3353691
go read about them on wikipedia

they were pretty good even more than those faggots romans and greeks

they didnt mix with the population they conquered or imposed their culture onto them, romans/greeks imposed their shit culture onto the people they conquered?
why?

fuck them

>>3354014
>they were pretty good even more than those faggots romans and greeks

What makes you say that?

>they didnt mix with the population they conquered or imposed their culture onto them, romans/greeks imposed their shit culture onto the people they conquered?
why? fuck them

Can you rephrase this you arent making much sense here

>>3354014
>imposed their shit culture onto the people they conquered?
why?
>Another factor contributing to the decline of the Empire after Xerxes was its failure to ever mold the many subject nations into a whole; the creation of a national identity was never attempted.[91] This lack of cohesion eventually affected the efficiency of the military.[92]

>>3353001

Are you implying that more advanced civilizations have a right or a duty to conquer less advanced, "backwards" people? cause that has some unfortunate implications

>>3353472
>narrow corridor surrounded by cliffs
>phalanx tactics
>7000 other Greeks

Yep, it absolutely had to do with Spartan ubersmench

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>>3353001
>persians
>civilised

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*inhales*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAAAHHHAAAHHAHAHAHAH

>>3354094
Basically yes, if you can ensure that you can rule over people of another country better or at least more humane on a human rights level then yes.

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>>3354115
>t. greek poorfag

>>3354166
I think such a thing is entirely theoretical.Empires are not run by boy scouts and the Persians were not acting for the Greek's own good.

But that is a mute point. The Greeks won against a superior enemy: defying the odds and upholding those things their society believed virtuous.

>>3354166
>Basically yes, if you can ensure that you can rule over people of another country better or at least more humane on a human rights level then yes.

So where the Mongols justified in conquering Iran and killing 25% of the total population because they allowed for freedom of religion?

>>3354221
I literally said it's only ok if they actually benefit the population of the conquered land

>>3354273
Was unsure if it was just hyperbole on your part.

Given the stuff in >>3353674 do you think the Persians would have benefited the Greek peoples ?

>>3353001
Because Thermopylae was based.

>>3354077
Thankfully the Sassanids learned from the mistake of the Achaemenids. The Sassanids actually formed the national idea of Iran. Sassanian Empire was called "Iran-Shahr"

>>3353033
Frank Miller is a literal anti-iranian bigot.

>>3353674
>You know that Persia required its client states to provide them with soldiers and wealth right?
You know the majority of those "client states" had the same deal with Athens and the Delian League "dictating" requirements to its allies right? Or Rome with its own allies? Or the British Empire with its territories? Why is this special in the case of Persia in particular? on top of that the majority of these troops were literally used as militiamen and police/peacekeepers or auxiliary units as best, not actual combat troops.

>forced to enlist
Exaggeration and hyperbole.
>allow Babylonians
Babylon stopped existing as an independent nation with even the faintest theme of independence after Xerxes put down their last revolt; which included destroying large amounts of their temples, statues of their gods, and cleaning houses on their older customs, so not really buying this.
>let nomads who fought for them practice eugenics
What nomads practiced eugenics?
>let middle eastern people force women to be temple prostitutes
Are you making things up now? The Greeks had entire sects of priestesses and other women used communally as equivalent to bukkake troughs.
>let Egyptians obsess over animals
You mean cats? Who doesn't love cats?

>>3353674
You are a brainlet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_War

>>3354115
>Persians were so civilized the Greeks attempted to adopt their model of governing immediately upon conquering them.
>The Persians were so civilized that the Greeks called them effeminate.
you're a tard

>>3354115
Oh its our resident cockroach shitposter. Still butthurt you can't use your trip anymore?

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>>3354625
>constant revolts having to be quelled
>create Royal Road for the express purpose of military communication and transport
>hated by most subject nations, most of all Egypt and Ionian Greek states, who welcome any outsiders willing to fight Persia as literal saviors.

Truly beloved and beneficent rulers, those Persians. Not to mention even-handed and fair, what with their requiring military and financial tithes in exchange for the current ruler not marching his army into your capital and looting it. And let's just ignore the fact that child-wives were a thing for nobility. Get over your Persia-booing and just admit that they're just as bad as everyone else.

Also, not claiming that Sparta is the greatest city on earth by any means. Most of the Greek city-states weren't the beacons of civilization that people romanticize them to be. In fact, they're pretty much just as bad as the Persians, except they fought to subjugate each other rather than other peoples. Which is arguably just by happenstance.

t. Someone who doesn't fault Persia or Greece more than the other because they've both got good and bad points

Also, ephebophilia isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's not pederasty, which it's almost always mistaken for.

>>3353691
>I do the eastern style tyranny was something that flustered the Greeks hard
Proof?

>>3354625
>let middle eastern people force women to be temple prostitutes
>Are you making things up now? The Greeks had entire sects of priestesses and other women used communally as equivalent to bukkake troughs.

Holy shit. That's hot. Any more info?

>>3354673
>constant revolts
Other than Egypt, not really no.
>create the Royal Road
The Royal Road already pre-dated the existence of the Mede and Achaemenid empires, you brainlet. Darius certainly massively expanded it but that was as much for trade and administrative purposes as it was for military logistics, you retard. The Royal Road was primarily also a highway for moving goods and caravans under the protection of local and imperial soldiers in the Persian Empire to safeguard them from highwaymen and bandits/robbers.
>hated by most subject nations
Wrong.
>Ionian Greek states
Only a minority of them.
>Egypt
All of the uprisings in Egypt were by local nobles who wanted to kick start their own dynasties, but not by commoners. So bullshit, mate.

Now keep lying.

>tithes
Every empire required these you dipshit.

>>3354673
>child-wives
Show proof.

>>3353674
>The Mongolians brought trade and eastern knowledge with them does that justify their brutal conquests?
Mongols also erased entire cities from the map, and not a small number. I don't think persians did this, their "brutal" conquests don't look that different from normal conquests to me. Unlike the mongol ones.

>>3356451
>>3356437
samefagging this hard

>>3356593
I wasn't pretending to be a different poster in either of my posts, you piss-ant.

>>3353190
Don't project your degeneracy to everyone, you disgusting lgbt revisionist.

>>3353001
It seems to me that any Spartaboos can be quickly silenced when you mention their dealings with Persia during the Peloponnesian War. They were very proud warrior people who didn't bow down to anyone, until the time came to go and ask the Persians to gibe moni plox.

>>3353473
>responding to such obvious bait
oh gee i wonder why he's not putting forward any logical arguments

>>3353001 (OP)
>practiced eugenics
>fucked little boys
Pick one and only one.

Anyway, according to Xenophon, Sparta seemed to be the only Greek state which prohibited pederasty, unlike what other people described.

>>3356760 (OP) (OP) (OP)
you are the OP now

>>3356760
Xenophon is also a Spartaboo. Can't trust him as a source as being 100% unbiased.

>>3353001
>but is there any reason Spartan can be seen as the good guys in the war?
They didn't lose to a bunch of nigger boy fucking eugenicists lol

>>3356717
>Shah sama p-please give Darics to help us stop perfidious A-thenians

Greeks have God of War and Persians have Prince of Persia it's pretty obvious GoW is the better game therefore Spartans > Persians

>>3356886
God of War has been shit since after GoW II. Classic series was GOAT through and through; Sands of Time, Warrior Within, The Two Thrones, plus AC spin-off series.

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>>3353347
>>3353469
Why do you always capitalize the T?

>>3356760 (OP)
How are the two things mutually exclusive?

>>3356708
I'm not the one being a revisionist

>>3353001
>is there any reason Spartan can be seen as the good guys in the war?
They were defending their homeland against invaders. Obviously, they were the good guys,
Also they were not that retarded or else they would not have been "successful" in Greece. Almost all we know about them was written by their enemies.

>>3353456
I'm going to use this in real life.

>>3357073
I assume you also think the Allies should not have invaded Nazi Germany

>>3357073
>good guys
>war
The same homeland Greeks were doing the equivalent to being state-sponsors of terrorism to the Persians so that line of relativistic thinking is dumb.

>>3357156
>>3357218
I'm just saying that when you're being invaded you have naturally every right to fight back, be it nazis or ackbars. No one blames the nazis for having defending their Heimat at the end of the war...

>>3354053
because achaemenids left people and their culture alone, you only have to pay your tax
>>3354053
>Can you rephrase this you arent making much sense here
romans and greeks imposed their culture in to the people they conquered like arameans, phoeicnians, etc
>>3354077
they just have to lower the tax and change the elite class

>>3357323
Except the invasion was agitated and caused by the Greeks themselves and it was a reactionary war as a result.

>>3354673
The Achaemenids were largely stable until their final years and Egypt was the only real problematic province which was sporadically revolting here and then. No one would call someone was energetic, capable, or talented as Darius the Great "incompetent" and he had to deal with Egyptian rebellions several times. The Empire's lengthy duration of existence was due to its friendly policy of not imposing the Persian faiths, culture, or beliefs or forceful treatment of its conquered peoples in the first place.

Darius even even way before Alexander was encouraging Persian and Greek nobles to intermarry and mix up so they could form a more unified elite social class blending the best of both Arya and Hellene cultures together.

>>3357932
>Except the invasion was agitated and caused by the Greeks themselves and it was a reactionary war as a result.
Exactly what the nazis did, and no on blame them for their defense.

>>3357980
Please tell me how Achaemenid Persians are equitable with Nazi Germans.

>>3358111
>reading comprehension
In your example the nazis can be compared to the greeks, they did some shit and get invaded in return, they defended their homeland, and no one could expect them to do anything else.

>>3356925
Littleboi assbabies are genetically inferior, everyone knows this

>>3354673
Ashoka's reign of India, after he became Buddhist, was a beacon of civilization though.

I like to LARP as a Gandharan and THEN an Ancient Persian, lol. I just imagine meditating beside Greek, Indian, Bactrian, and Persian wise men not giving a fuck in Gandhara.

t. Persian who's an Indiaphile and Sinophile and descendant of Bodhidharma's one night stand.

>>3358315
Not really no, that's not what my example was leaning at in the first place.

>>3356900
nobody tell him lmao

I've heard this before (300 doesn't make sense since Sparta is evil as fuck and Persia is much more sympathetic by modern standards). Forget where.

>>3358907
Maybe from any real historian?

>>3353001
Because people love the underdog

>>3353001
>but is there any reason Spartan can be seen as the good guys in the war?

It was their land? Read The Peloponnesian war. Athens were the fucking niggers, Athens and their useless fucking walls.

>Were much more humane to slaves than many other countries and empires at the time

They had an empire of slaves, Spartans and their treatment of the helots was fine. They were weaker than the Spartans in all respect. In history invaders were not welcomed with open arms and their land freely given and their subservience, their is usually a struggle. It's ludicrous to expect it.

Honestly, read The Peloponnesian war, it will change every aspect of the way you think about the Spartans. They are criticised as slow to react to avoid any unfavored outcome for any party. They were the sign of strength in turbulent times. Even in the face of utter disrespect from the Athenians (Themistocles and those fucking walls) they remained civil. One thing you do not understand about the Spartans is the meme about their strength is literally true, the aspect which is always left out is their civil and structured nature in warfare and politics.

Sure they fucked over their slaves, but slaves are slaves and there are no good ones. And during their time how they treated their Helots in respect to how everyone else around them treated their people, it's really nothing. Ancient Greek history is full of lies and deceit, the Spartans with their ancient government had no need of this and were rightfully feared as being truly just.

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>>3353001
t. John Green

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>>3354625
>Why is this special in the case of Persia in particular?

Did you read the context in which I made that post? the person who I was responding to wrote as if Spartans were the only people who compelled to fight for them and that this was not the case in Persia

>cleaning houses on their older customs
I know he melted down their statues but did he actually outlaw bridal auctions?

>What nomads practiced eugenics?
I cant recall the exact name but I think they were either the Scythians or one of the smaller groups from that north Iran Caucus area.

>Are you making things up now?
No, pic related (although I using a different translation/footnotes)

>You mean cats? Who doesn't love cats?
I mean, dogs, cats, stalks, cows/bulls and crocodiles - with emphasis on the last two they spent a huge amount of money on time on these animals and when it came to crocodiles people who had been killed by them.


>>3354630
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_War

how does the Corinthian war respond to any of the points in that post?

>>3354625

>>3354864
I dont have the specific page but it was contained in the footnotes of Paul Cartledge written for Tom Hollands translation of The Histories.

>>3356516
The Mongols also produced a vastly greater flow of trade and information. The point Im trying to get across is that its not a black and white matter

>>3359404
They didn't.

The silk road existed before and after the mongols.

>>3354673
>requiring military and financial tithes

EVERYONE IN HISTORY HAS FUCKING DONE THIS. EVEN FUCKING NOW.

>>3357368
>because achaemenids left people and their culture alone, you only have to pay your tax

And provide soldiers for their wars. Demanding men and gold/silver isnt really leaving people alone.

>romans and greeks imposed their culture in to the people they conquered like arameans, phoeicnians, etc

Have you considered the advantages that might bring?

>>3357368
>they just have to lower the tax and change the elite class

A temporary solution and one thats very vulnerable to bad luck when it comes to weather or succession. Which is why the Empires that came after them focused more on culture.

>>3358315
>Nazis 'did some shit'
Yeah like fucking invade and annex whole countries. Everyone blames them because they shouldn't have invaded in the first place.

>>3359412
>They didn't. The silk road existed before and after the mongols.

Where did I say the Mongols invented the Silk Road?

The mongols brought the Silk Road to its peak with the security and destruction of trade barriers they introduced +their at the time umatchable messenger service.

When the Mongols collapsed the route went into a decline which it never recovered from .

>>3359483
no they didn't

Any increases on trade that might have occurred due the the territory being entirely controlled by one power can't be attributed to be some Mongol achievement either. Mongols wanted to bring nothing to the places they conquered besides death and destruction and to take from those places all that was valuable.

Tired of seeing this retarded increased trade and religious freedom meme shit.

Sparta did messed up things, but they still held off a Persian invasion, which eventually led to Alexander conquering them, so in the end Sparta wasn't really that bad

>>3359499
They also tried fighting on behalf of Persia and lost to the other city states.

>>3359495
>Any increases on trade that might have occurred due the the territory being entirely controlled by one power can't be attributed to be some Mongol achievement either.

Why? Just because it was unintentional? Without their presence this was impossible and why the road literally collapsed with empire itself.

>Mongols wanted to bring nothing to the places they conquered besides death and destruction and to take from those places all that was valuable.

Which is why they were so keen on trade amoung their subjects as it meant better gear.


>Tired of seeing this retarded increased trade and religious freedom meme shit.

They arent memes, however I do hate the opportunists like Jack Weatherford who act as thought the Mongols were motivated by benevolence and or this somehow justifies their genocidal brutality.

>>3353001
>I am not accusing people of historic revisionism or anything, but is there any reason Spartan can be seen as the good guys in the war?

Given that Germany has made more scientific and cultural contributions to humanity than Poland or the Czechs, we see once again that Hitler was the good guy.

>>3356925
Go ask Nazi. They're the master of eugenics.
Exterminate faggots is one of few things I won't condemn them too harsh.

Pederasty is "Dysgenics", a degeneracy, not "Eugenics".