So, who the fuck was Chavez? was he good? was he really the amazing

A Cuban influence agent, like every other Latin American leftist.

A charismatic socialist who had god tier luck in governing when oil was at $100+ a barrel, and managed to use that money to create a lavish welfare system and support his fellow leftists in Latin America (Venezuela sent Cuba heavily discounted oil until very recently). He was also lucky enough to die before oil plummeted and made his welfare system/oil dependent economy unsustainable

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>>3334842
Regardless he still led the country to make gains at building up the military which could serve as a deterrent for another NATO bloc attempt at an Arab Spring in the region.

Also le vingt cinq rule.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/12/12/venezuelan-ak-103-factory-will-start-working-2019/

His coup was an incompetently led mess and failed miserably, I don't think he will amount to anything. Surely the people of Venezuela are smart enough to see through the lies of someone who committed treason against a democratically elected government. He is obviously just using the socialism meme as propaganda and if he ever gets into power he will be corrupt as fuck.

>>3334975
Uh, is this bait?

A Cuban intelligence asset. He overthrew the elected government. Tossed out everyone competent in the state owned oil company and replaced them with politically reliable idiots. Billions of dollars went missing. Oil production costs soared. His welfare spending did not include things like hospitals. So he had to go to Cuba to get cancer treatments.

He and Maduro turned the wealthiest latin american nation, that is larger physically and in population, into a client of Cuba.

Now there is no money, no food, and no competence in the government. The Venezuelan people don't want to a dicatator, but still want socialism. So the country is ruined for a generation or two.

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>>3334842
>Socialism of the 21st century

>>3334975
???

>>3334842
Another great left wing socialist leader who ensured that Venezuela would be free from the West. And they don't have a Rothschild bank either.

>>3334860
*tips tinfoil*

>>3335134
I think that post suits >>3335090 better.

>>3335090
They are still a capitalist country LARPing like a communist.

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>>3335090
>Rothschild bank

>>3335167
No they aren't there is socialist country independent of capitalist exploitation. Hence why I said they don't have a Rothschild Bank.
>>3335169
Course the Jews love Chavez, Hugo Chavez is not an anti-semite and he has nothing against religion. And just because the Rothchilds are Jewish does not mean, that's socialist countries are against the Jews as a people and a religion. No, Hugo Chavez is not anti-semitic and he has nothing against any religious people. It's the bankers and the Rothschilds that he's against.

\>>3334985
>>3334994
he's meming as a timetravelling post from the 1990s when chavez launched a failed coup against the government. he ended up getting elected a few years later ironically so a person (rich or middle class) before that period would hold this anon's opinion

>>3334985 >>3335088
I am merely obeying the 25 year rule, what are you doing?

>>3335186
>Course the Jews love Chavez
which is why the middle and upper middle class venezuelans here in florida, a minority of which are jewish, had to flee to this country lmao

>>3335186
Why the Rothschild are so evil for you? why they are different to others banks in the world?

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We should condemn the violence now being done by all sides in Venezuela.

>>3334990
>He and Maduro turned the wealthiest latin american nation

Dubious. It had a lto of poverty within the context of the region and hyper dependent on oil

>>3335186
The complete opposite is true. The Rothschild conspiracy is a total meme and Chavez was a kleptocratic demagogue, it is people like Chavez who throw millions of people into a life of economic stagnation and decrepitude.

>>3335254
No its not. Look it up for yourself.

>>3334975
Kek

Is this thread satire?

Venezuela is a fucking shithole nowadays, it's going the same route as allende government, the country is literally starving

All because of shitty Chavez policies like adjusting a lot of product prices during the world recession and thinking it wouldn't affect the economy some generations after

>>3336707
All I have seen are claims like "Rothschilds own nearly every central bank" with nothing to back it up. It is obviously bullshit.

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>>3334990
Agree with everything that you said except Venezuela was not "the wealthiest Latin American nation", they only managed a decent GDP per capita for a brief period in the 1950s-1970s due to an oil price boom that was squandered.

But Venezuela has always been a lawless shithole with huge shanty towns, an oil-dependent third world economy, no universal literacy, huge differences in income distribution and very little industry.

It is the textbook definition of banana republic, and it was bankrupt, with a 70% inflation rate and most of the population in poverty already in 1999 when Chavez took over.

Chavez nevertheless managed to make it worst, by squandering another oil boom and ruining what little industry was left, downgrading one of the shittiest South American states from the third to the fourth world which is quite an accomplishment.

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>>3336992
Compare with this chart of oil prices.
Chavez was not even able to properly ride the oil boom as production actually decreased during his presidency as he appointed cronies to the State oil company and used the profits for welfare and cronyism rather than reinvesting them.

His predecesors were complete fuck ups since they just rode the oil booms and never managed to diversify Venezuela's industry.

Chavez was so incompetent he was not even able to ride the oil boom in the first place. He killed the golden goose way before oil prices crashed.

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It depend with side are you,
If you're an american who spend his time watching the massive social media and you bealive that bush did nothing wrong just like obama with the war and their relation with the isis, well you're full ignorant and even looking in this forum you'll get a good information to trust about "Who was Chavez?".Maybe you should search not in this side and probably you'll have to learn anothier language because most of this fags in the thread have the same thinking about socialism tagging it as "FOOKING DESGOSTIN"

>>3334842
> So, who the fuck was Chavez?
a dumb army officer
the whole thing was a brilliant cuban takeover

>>3335186
umm no Chavez was very anti-Israel and pro-Hezbollah and Iran, also lots of arabs and muslims in his administration

>>3334975

Are we talking about zombie Chavez?

>>3334990
> He overthrew the elected government
You got it wrong there
Chavez participated in a failed coup and did some time in jail, then he was pardoned and went into politics.
He was elected.

>>3337245
So like hitler :^)

>>3337131
>>3336798

Im chilean and therefore you are wrong

>>3334994
Venezuela really reminds me of an eastern block nation. Waiting for the inevitable collapse. Also it's yet another proof that socialism is just a scam. Priviledged elite holding the population by the balls and killing them when they rebel against their retarded anti-economic policy. It's funny how lefties pretend it doesn't exist now. This is what you want bitches.

>>3337277
Idk if its your people or the Peruvians but stop speaking fucking Spanish in game lobby.

>>3337131
>even in this forum
This isn't a forum, and you're shits all retarded.

>>3335217
Boohoo
>>3335220
B8
>>3335254
So far all the Jews I've seen work with banks in NATO bloc countries and the only socialist Jews I've seen are in conspiracy theories.
>>3337167
Scores a point in my book.
>>3337271
Therefore like Dahnald and Shillary and Obama and every other unpopular populist.

>>3337287
>[collapse]
>Any minute now.
Collapses only happen in burgeoning countries with governments that have lasted only several years. Most of the Eastern bloc countries [collapsed] around the same time as the Soviet Union. The rest of the socialist world still has much of their governments intact even if they have made some reforms so Venezuela is looking to be like another Burma but probably with a somewhat higher degree of economic strength and in the absence of major ethnic discord, a greater stability.

The only negative is due to its location it's not of as much geopolitical importance as countries which border China and Russia but that also may be what prevents it from being taken up into greater turmoil.

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He was a hero

>>3337167
Anti-zionism =/= anti semitism

>>3337380
https://youtu.be/-ByQy8crcZI

>>3337393
theyre the same thing

>>3334975
I don't think you've lived in a country where every problem is spun as proof of the EVIL WESTERN CAPITALIST IMPERIALISM THAT WANT TO DESTROY US.

>>3337439
No? Just like you can be against American imperialism but not hate Americans

>>3337455
I think western socialists use the same excuse. Sometimes you have to live through it to know. Especially if it's something that promises heaven on Earth.

>>3337461
>American Imperialism
What century is this again?

>>3337461
>imperialism

what?

>>3337518
Bigger nations influencing weaker ones if not outright taking them over. Of course communists were doing just that and were even more brutal about it but to this day imperialism is treated as a boogeyman for commies.

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He made action figures of himself that talked about HUGO CHAVEZ'S GLORIOUS SOCIALIST REVOLUTION when you pressed a button.

>>3337547
It takes honorary third place in the ironic socialism championship after Che t-shirts and ticket sale to Marx's grave.

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>>3337558
Death to capitalism!!!! *sips*

>>3337547

what a shameless asshole

>>3334842
>try to coup because government was utter shit, extremely corrupt
>fails miserably
>is now a social democrat
>people know about his somewhat authoritarian attitude
>he denies it and say he will be completely democratic
>wins
>start to reform lots of stuff
>clearly authoritarian now
>expropiate lots of stuff
>is friend of Cuba
>gives lots of money to Cuba in exchange of the James Bond-tier Cuban Intelligence agents so burgerstanis don't kill Chavez
>becomes even more authoritarian, expropiate so much that it's now in a funny youtube video (search for Chavez expropiando)
>this alienates the venezuelan middle class, but since it's so small nobody gives a shit

Venezuelans loved Chavez a lot. He was the first venezuelan president who actually wanted to integrate the homeless poors who live ilegally in private owned lots. His country could have been gone to shit if he didn't have oil, he made lots of gibsmedats institutions.

One thing OP is that you shouldn't believe a word of those venezuelan "refugees" since obviously they are extremely biased. Also, Maduro started to roll back many of Chavez' reforms, I forgot how that plan was called. Maybe he wanted to stop the middle class and upper class to hate him. It didn't work though. He kept doing retarded shit like treating Chavez as a legend.

>>3337578
In this pic you almost see the face of real Che Guevara. He was no fun allowed personified. Hated music and his favorite country was North Korea. Clearly a role model for all those cool metal bands right?

>>3337544
Globalism is imperialism.
>>3337578
No some people aren't retarded to go great lengths just to avoid anything remotely capitalist like an autist. Also your excluding the possibility of ambitions of for future seize of such enterprises' means of production.

>>3337603
>appeal to popularity
>Implying all lefties are metal heads.
https://youtu.be/yAOWxFLuz2k

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>>3337646
>Also your excluding the possibility of ambitions of for future seize of such enterprises' means of production.

So... looting?

>>3334842
Socialist tyrant and the biggest mistake that venezuela has made

T.Venezuelan

>>3337679
This would get you banned from socialist reddit.
They hate people with actual first hand experience of socialism in action.

>>3337679
>le capriles voter

You made the mistake you stupid retards. The previous government was so shit that fucking Chavez got elected.

Arepas are fucking horrible, go fuck yourself you shitlezuelan.

>>3337646
Are you the rothschild hater guy? Why those guys are evil to you?

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>>3337655
>posts picture of people looting in free enterprises countries where property management firms and banks practice segregational polices.
I was thinking something more like this.

>>3337646
but metal is reactionary

>>3337693
Nah, though I've never really seen anyone defend Rothschilds.

>>3337693
I think he's the one who posted statistics from communist-friendly websites to prove that people's longevity prospects improved after a fucking world war.

>>3337700
Tell it to that guy.>>3337603

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>>3337696
More like this comrade

>>3337705
But why they are so evil? why them and not others banks in the world?

He was a retarded socialist that helped ruin Venezuela.

These videos show the Venezuela before the PSUV government. Regardless where they come from it shows that student protests in the country aren't a post-Chavez phenomenon.

https://youtu.be/TBA3OSvZSYc
https://youtu.be/R3CR6MzcGD8
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgW-PurYXxJDTkc4Xkk0vUIp3CgwmfRXe
https://youtu.be/Nw9RPVJ3hKs

>>3337759
So he solved anything or just worsened the situation?

>>3334842
Same fag here but I am still keeping my word, they don't have a Rothschild bank so they are good guys in my book. Socialism is against the Rothschilds. So I support them in their fight for independence.

>>3337722
People everywhere just want a reining in of crony policies whichever way they may manifest theirselves.

>>3337767
>Socialism is against the Rothschilds

Nope

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>>3337776
>>3337767

>>3337765
But the way the media and righttards love to spin it makes it seem he created it which looks to be false. Also calling for the downfall of a government so it can be replaced by another set of corrupt politicians isn't going to help much either. Plus there's an observable tendency that has been established. Free enterprise no-regulation politicians are scum and always sack the country.

>>3337776
>>3337782
Not an argument.

>>3337810
why not?

>>3337814
Because you are hostile to socialism and to any independent countries that while they may not be socialist in the surface, the fact that they are resisting western imperialism and western influence and for the fact that they don't have a Rothschild run bank is more proof they are against the Soros/Rothschild gangsters. So, not an argument.

>>3337793
But Chavez solve anything or not?

>>3337825
No they need to give socialism another go.

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>>3337823
what you call socialism is just state capitalism, also Chavez wasn't even a socialist, he was a ridiculous left winger leader populist who loved Bolivar so much than even related him with marxism.

>>3337825
Yeah infant mortality dropped. Also plenty of poor people where had homes constructed. There's something.

Another thing the msm is also liable to using clips of past events and other places and spinning it as taking place at this moment just like they do in their reporting of the Middle East. They'd probably use clips of pro-left agitators from some time past and claim it was a riot against the government.

>>3337855
So because he created state welfare and healthcare he was a socialist? he was more like a socdem to me.

Are South American countries destined for unstable socialist governments? Each time they fail they fail the excuses from socialist apologists are always the same "but look at [instert less relevant thing that central planning can actually fix]. It's improved"
And in the countries themselves they will just blame whoever. The rich people, capitalists, imperialists, neighbors, bad weather. And the cycle continues.

>>3337874
Oh well the righttard argument and shilling is always focused against soc dems for being socialsts so whatever.

>>3337892
Other types of cronyism don't help. The problem is probably more deeply rooted and cultural.

>>3337874
Didn't he drive away actual companies and nationalized them? Or am I mixing it with someone else.

Anyway when arrogant pieces of shit like Chavez or Maduro decide to improve thier country they may do stuff that will make them feel like real leaders. It's not hard to pump money into say education or some government programs and reduce illiteracy. People don't hate central planning and socialism because they can't do anything. It's because they don't see the big picture. Debts have to be paid, people want to have the freedom of earning their own money (and large government programs prevent that), they want to start businesses etc. Looking at governments in terms of how many tons of steel they produced is incredibly simplistic.

>>3337596
>"Refugees"
What did he mean by this?

>>3337892
South American countries have improved a lot in every sense, Venezuela is the only sad exception

>>3337916
And Bolivia.

>>3337896
>if critice Chavez you must be a rightward

Venezuela is still a capitalist country, with a populist left wing government LARPing as commies. thanks to that, venezuela was turned in a sad meme than both (socialists and capitalists) enjoy to exploit to made evident the eachother faliures.

>>3337911
aka dissidents, defectors, expats, diaspora, exiles etc. Various words used to refer to victims of __ regime.

>>3337929
Really commies think Venezuela was a capitalist inside job? Jesus Christ they want to give it one more try don't they?

>>3337924
Bolivia has been doing great in this decade, despite the government commie rethoric. This year their economy will grow 4% with inflation around 5%.

>>3335231
>2013
Note that this was before everything went to utter shit, and about the time Chavez died.

>>3337929
Can be true but I'd prefer the discussion to shift to asking questions such as why the country is perpetually prone to being immersed in 100% inflation and such rather than the constant drivel over why the socialist government was is 'baaad'.

>>3337946
They've been calling for a downfall for years now.

>>3337287
It's worse than most Eastern Bloc countries at this point, though some butthurt Lithuanians would say otherwise. In the Eastern Bloc (at least up until the last period) everyone had a job and a house, and you didn't need to forage through the garbage to get food.
>this is what liberals want
That's bullshit and you know it.

>>3337941
Uruguay was also one of 5 of the only countries whose economy grew during the recession. Several years earlier it had experienced its own crisis along with Argentina.

>>3337544
The USSR practiced imperialism but nowhere near the scale of the West

>>3337603
>Hated music
That's funny. There's at least one song written about him by a Cuban.

>>3337969
I wish we were imperialised by them instead of fucking empire of evil and the biggest butcher of Europe.
Now this sounded a bit dramatic. But basically every comparison between USA and USSR makes USA look more favorably and trademark Soviet whataboutism can't change it. I'm so glad it's gone.

>>3334946
Last thing I heard about the Venezuelan military is that it's corrupted to the core, poorly maintained and is actually considered a narco military

>>3337976
Hated rock and jazz. And other unrelated things like fair trial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPl9Go3hHDI

The fact that this guy made it and still is a successful musician while that sick fuck Che failed and died is deeply satisfactory.

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He was the ultimate ruse man
Tricked an entire country into thinking they were heading to a bright future and could keep living like kings in the middle of the slum, then he just died after fucking up most of the relationships with neighborhood countries, leaving a failed economy plan and an abandoned country to its own
Sad enough, there is STILL people out there who back Venezuela, it takes an special kind of stupidity to do so

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>>3337955
yes but without chavez the regime lost much popular support, Chavez was charismatic figure compared with the literally bus driver Maduro

>>3337998
When in doubt they can always blame someone else for their failures and promise that paradise is coming. Just 5 more years of hardship. The governments has a plan trust us.
That's the way the government was explaining things back in communism. Not that they had any support to begin with.

>>3337984
>>3337984
The Assad crime family and the CIA DEA are also heavily involved in drugs enterprises. Drugs are a fact of life and lucrative and it's no surprise that government entities end up taking involvement with it.
The Wa State Army in Myanmar has financed its army and built cities through the drug trade. The people in that society probably see little wrong with earning in that manner though in recent times there have allegedly been moves to move people to other occupations.
The Venezuelan military might not have to deal with the same degree of command chain obstacles that Arab militaries allegedly do.

>>3338038
What you say of the Wa State army sounds more like the people are benefitting form that trade while Venezuelan literally kill each other for food

>>3337941
did Bolivia adopt the chinese economic model?

>>3338052
>Venezuelan literally kill each other for food
If anything what can be seen in this video shows that it's nothing new.
https://youtu.be/R3CR6MzcGD8

I actually think pigeon may be a traditional or historical cuisine among the poor or slum dwellers and used as by opposition and the right as proof things being worse in the country.
The Wa State is infinitely smaller by comparison and borders China and has been receiving its support recently. And it still doesn't mean the military doesn't benefit from it.

>>3338059
>Prosperity can only be possible through Chinese economic derestriction.
There's a thing called a social market you know.

>>3338059
The growth also coincides with a reported increase of cocaine traffic from the country.

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>>3335090
>MFW the fucking Rothschild autist shows up

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>>3337544
>anti-commie unironically using whataboutism
Top 5 capitalist irony

>>3338226
I don't know what are you trying to say. Muh beatend negroes is a trademark fallacy of the Soviet Union. Piece of shit empire that enslaved half of Europe before we broke free. Their hypocrisy is a stuff of legendary political jokes.

>>3338246
And there's somethign extremely funny about a worshipper of a failed religion-like utopian ideology that subjugated nations and which we rejected with gusts first chance we had appear all smug and ironic on the internet place were he can talk to actual people who survived it.

>>3338246
I am finding the humor in an anti-commie using a favored Soviet Union technique of propaganda and deflection dumbass

>>3338269
>implying i am a tankie
Keep projecting

>>3338485
No it's an example of Soviet hypocrisy that they practice what they officially hate the most.

>>3338246
>successfully deflected the topic of how anti- American imperialism isn't anti-American to be about Soviet Union
You would have made a great commissar comrade

>>3338507
>hypocrisy
What? Whataboutism isn't hypocrisy, but intellectual dishonestly. Whether or not Soviets were hypocrites doesn't undercut their criticism of American imperialism, but it is intellectually dishonest of you to suddenly mention them when someone just mentioned the existence of American imperialism.

>>3338628
It has to be said. United States had former Spanish colonies and maybe a couple caribbean countries while USSR held like 16 different countries together and had half of Europe as its satelite states with pupper governments. No comparison.

>>3338641
And no one is making that comparison but you! Does that change the fact that America has imperialism or that it is bad? No. You are only mentioning to deflect any criticism. What a shame you would have made a great tankie

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>>3337596
>Maduro started to roll back many of Chavez' reforms, I forgot how that plan was called. Maybe he wanted to stop the middle class and upper class to hate him. It didn't work though. He kept doing retarded shit like treating Chavez as a legend.
Maduro had to roll back policies because the GOVERNMENT RAN OUT OF MONEY. Socialists seem to think the government is an unlimited source of cash.

Fact: ANYONE that took over in 2013 after Chavez death would have faced economic collapse and riots.

Chavez absolutely buttfucked the economy of Venezuela. Here are some FACTS so that the delusional commies ITT shut the fuck up:

1. When Chavez took over 87% of Venezuela's exports were oil. When Chavez died 96% of Venezuela's exports were oil. Economic diversification actually decreased.

2. Oil production decreased as well, despite record oil prices. PDVSA was staffed with government cronies and its profits used for gibmedats rather than reinvested in exploration and refining.

3. Poverty decreased from 41% of the population in 1999 to 29% in 2013 when Chavez died. This is not an impressive figure considering the record oil prices, other countries achieved more poverty reduction in the same timeframe with no oil bonanza.

Furthermore, between 2013 and 2017 poverty skyrocketed to more than 80% and this can be squarely blamed on the hyperinflation Chavez created. This invalidates EVERYTHING that happened in the previous years.

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>>3338918
4. Retarded economic planning. Venezuela calculated its budget assuming a $130 USD barrel, guess what happened when the price collapsed? Sensible countries like Norway realized it was a temporary thing and planned accordingly, budgeting to a $50 USD barrel and pocketing the difference in a Sovereign Wealth Fund to plan ahead for the bad times.
Literally the cricket and the ants fable.

5. Nationalizations destroyed Venezuelan agriculture and industry. Nationalized steel mills, farms, cement factories, and so on, practically every single nationalized industry is producing at around 30% levels of what they did under private management. The only reason this was masked under Chavez years was because of the oil price being so high, which allowed the government to compensate by importing goods for cheap. This also explains the increased economic concentration of Venezuela's economy, non-oil exports have literally collapsed.

6. Reckless money printing and scarcity of goods due to price controls already existed during Chavez years. It just became intolerable during Maduro but the symptoms were already there way before.

See chart and explain to me how can an economy with 50-70% inflation rates (as it was under Chavez) could ever possibly be sustainable.

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>>3338920
And yes, the hyperinflation can be squarely blamed on Chavez because economic policies are not magic, they take some time until you feel its effects.

Money printed today reaches has its full impact on the market after 1 or 2 years.

The vicious hyperinflationary cycle (money creation pushing inflation higher and inflation in turn pushing more money creation) begun under Chavez.

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>entire economy is state
>entire state budget is built on premise that oil prices can only go up
>oil goes down
>don't worry as long as we print more money than Zimbabwe we can pay our debts
>debtors please come back why won't you accept this trillion dollar bill it is a collector's item

Where can I learn more about the Venezuelan oil industry? They have ultra heavy tar sand oil but don't surface mine it like they do in Alberta, how the FUCK are they extracting it?

>>3337911
Not actual refugees. Lots of venezuelans got out of their country since 2015. In those years shit wasn't like now. Even now pillaging and violent protests are only in certain places, not all over Venezuela. Keep in mind it's the middle class who is getting the fuck out of there. The middle class isn't affected by those protest since they live in the nice part of Venezuela.

I would also get out of Venezuela I'm not lying, but saying shit like "Venezuela is like Syria" is plain lying, just because they can no longer buy Timberland boots doesn't mean it's a literal shithole. Funny anecdote, from all the venezuelans I met 9 out of 10 bought clothes and playstations. They also bought toilet paper just to post it on facebook and tweet it, what a bunch of faggots.
>>333891
Didn't know that was the main reason of why Maduro rolled back Chavez' policies.

>Fact: ANYONE that took over in 2013 after Chavez death would have faced economic collapse

Yeah, I remember that the Minister of Economy (or Prime Minister, can't remember) was the heir of the government and not actually Maduro. That's why Maduro went full retard and cried in public to get popular support.

>between 2013 and 2017 poverty skyrocketed to more than 80% and this can be squarely blamed on the hyperinflation Chavez created

This was utterly retarded. Chavez initial plan was to stop the extremely poor being that poor. He expropiated hotels and buildings and gave it to the poor, which was just populism and not an actual solution.

>>3338918
butthurt revisionist anti-communist detected

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>be Mi Comandante Chavez
>literally lucky as fuck with the oil prices and all of that
>money to do whatever you want
>instead of investing said money in agriculture and industry you simply waste it
>not even invest it in actual social development, no, you just give the money to communal organizations
>millions of dollars
>to organizations made up by people who barely can read and write
>the money is literally wasted and non of the goals is accomplished
>you go back every year and give them more money
>fast-forward to today

Also, regarding their military forces

>corrupt as fuck
>own lots of companies and even government agencies
>they have more generals than all of NATO combined because they cant trust each other

Nice army you got there

>>3338110
nah, it´s mostly lithium
Bolivia stores around 70% of the world's lithium reserves