So let's settle this once and for all. Was America founded

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>>332965

the colonists literally came to the colonies because the church of england was oppressing their meme religions, usually deism and wacky off shoots of protestantism
>>332984
>only had one reference to religion
Except that part where it mentions "their Creator"

>>333014
Wait nevermind, that was the declaration of independence.

>>333014
I guess John Adams had his fingers crossed when writing the treaty of tripoli?

>>333014
>the colonists literally came to the colonies because the church of england was oppressing their meme religions, usually deism and wacky off shoots of protestantism
Which applied to some of the colonies (many were founded by people wanting to make money) more than a century and a half before then in which time things changed.
>Except that part where it mentions "their Creator"
Which is a deistic perspective, not a christian one. Besides this was nearly a century before The Origin of Species.

>>333037
John Adams was a Unitarian

I don't really see the point of this thread other than for actual fedoras to jerk each other off because we all know today people expressing the same beliefs as Unitarians, many types of Deists, Quakers or whatever the fuck would all be lumped under a generic "Christian" label. Religious sects mean almost nothing today in the Western World.

It wasn't. It wasn't founded on any one religion. It was specifically stated there would be no state religion. It's not a Christian nation. It's not a Buddhist nation. It's not a Muslim nation.

God was invoked in the forming of the government but only as a general concept and not on any specific doctrine.

As said most the the religious stuff was added in during the red scare of the 50's.

>>333037
First of all Joel Barlow wrote that, John Adams only approved it.

Second of he was basically saying "We won't fuck your shit up because you're muslim"

>As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries

Also I doubt you do but if you really care about the opinion of John Adams I would point you to the Treaty of Paris negotiated by Adams and Franklin, in which the very first words are “In the Name of the most holy and undivided Trinity."

Or if you prefer something almost immediately after the Treaty of Tripoli I would point you to how John Adams was actually butthurt about how supposedly religious the constitution was.

In a letter to officers of the Massachusetts militia he actually wrote "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other". Funny thing is at the time people gave them shit for it not being religious enough.

The fact that we specifically wrote in that there would never be an established state religion, with separation between it and state, shows the country was not founded on religion.

That doesn't mean they didn't value religion, they just didn't want to tie it to the system. Last thing they wanted was a Gunpowder Plot

>>332965
There were some colonies founded on it, but for the most part no.


The United States is officially a secular country, despite what the GOP and Constitution Party will want you to believe.

> The founder's Christian beliefs in 1787 are exactly the same as mine in 2015

>>333384

People can only say this is a Christian nation because people are far less religiously devout today than they were back then, so the moderates of their time can look like fanatics today.

The first line of the Bill of Rights forbids religious establishment and interference. So no.

>>332965

Didn't the Founding Fathers (most of whom who were deists) get shit from some of their contemporaries for not making the constitution religious enough?

I would say that going by the wording of the document, they tried to make as impartial and deistic as possible. "Creator" is pretty neutral sounding as you could call the chief deity of any religion that.

>>333214
>specifically stated
Show me where, the closest you get is seperation of church and state but that was more so to keep government out of religion in the context of the full statement not to keep religion from government, why do you think the red scare god propaganda passed so easily in the 50's. It would have met alot of road blocks if it was truly unconstitutional like you say. Never the less keeping religion out of government is for the best as it would only lead to government in religion, just look at the modern state of marriage, but if your trying to play semantics by saying things like "specifically stated" your quite blatantly wrong.

>>332965
Why is the woman groping herself

This recent fanatacism in America is baffling

Shouldn't deceloped societies decrease in religiosity?

>>333770
It is decreasing, albeit at slower rates than elsewhere and with backlash from religious elements, hence your perception of a wave of 'fanatacism'.

Yes and no.
See, it was simply assumed that the US was a Christian nation, there was no need to state that, let alone get the state involved.
One of Jefferson's biggest critiques of France during its bloody revolution was that the country was far too atheist for the Republic to work. In a sense, the United States of America was founded by Christian men, for Christian men. The Founders had a distinct dislike of Islam, I don't know if they had any knowledge or opinions of Buddhism or Hinduism, or any other religions, but they did expect the US of A to be run by straight white Christian men and drew up the Constitution and Bill of Rights with that focus in mind.

Most of the Christian bullshit was added after the fact, but thinking the US was not founded for Christians is as ignorant as believing Christianity is correct.

>>332965
It was founded from a society in which christianity meant something socially and idealogically to that state.

I bet their was not one catholic founding father

>>333770
It's not recent, it's been around for a long time. They're just crying harder because America is in fact becoming steadily less religious which means demographics are now working against them and denying them the influence in politics they once had.

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Honestly as a Christian it pains me to see "Christians" venerate a fucking flag. Idolatry if I ever saw one.

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>>334299
Bomb God

>>334167
>As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion;

The Treaty of Tripoli 1797

>The first amendment to the US Constitution states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" The two parts, known as the "establishment clause" and the "free exercise clause" respectively, form the textual basis for the Supreme Court's interpretations of the "separation of church and state" doctrine.Three central concepts were derived from the 1st Amendment which became America's doctrine for church-state separation: no coercion in religious matters, no expectation to support a religion against one's will, and religious liberty encompasses all religions. In sum, citizens are free to embrace or reject a faith, any support for religion - financial or physical - must be voluntary, and all religions are equal in the eyes of the law with no special preference or favoritism.

There is no one religion of America. Any law that favors one is unconstitutional. Case in point, Lemon vs Kurtzman. And to say that the government was founded on one religion is silly when the Constitution itself declares that no religious test shall ever be required to run for office. That in itself should show that they were not looking for a Christian government for Christian people.

It's a secular government that allows for all religions but favors none. That's how it was intended to be. The wording of the documents support this both in the Constitution, in reference to the Constitution, and in the Bill of Rights.

>>334167
>The Founders had a distinct dislike of Islam
proofs

>>332965
Most americans were christian but firmly believed that it had no place in any government institution.
This is a stupid, stupid argument.

Why the fuck would it matter if America was a christian nation?

Rome was as far from a christian nation as you can get and look at them now.

Maybe christian values and beliefs were just highly dominant in America, prompting the idea that the predominantly christian nation should be considered a "christian nation" by some people.

Anyways, the existence of 'A' god, even if not the Christian one, was highly considered to be self-evident before the spread of atheism, which still does not so much disprove the existence of a deity as it does provide alternatives to faith-based thought and clash against the church as an establishment and as a teaching resource, rather than as a source of wisdom or spiritual truth.

One could however say that "one nation under God," even while presumably including other religious beliefs, is still a call to practice organized religion, which is considered supporting a corrupt organization in modern times, as opposed to what the public sentiment was hundreds of years ago, that it was part of one's civic duties.

>>332984
Nice sources faggot.

I don't disagree with your point, but source your shit pls.

No, it was founded on anticlerical Enlightenment values. That's what made it so vulnerable to communism, and why religion had to be brought back to fight it, like it's said here >>332984

Because as the Venona papers have shown, the "fear" of communism was completely legitimate.

>Was America founded on Christianity or not?

Implicitly
>But le separation of Church and State!
The separation of church and state was a compromise resulting from the fact that no Protestant faith had an overwhelming majority across the United States - an Episcopalian didn't want to pay upkeep on a State Congregational church any more than a Congregationalist would do the same for an Episcopalian State Church.

Idiots confuse freedom of religion to freedom from religion, as in the French model of Laïcité

>>333397
>what is fundamentalism
People are more fanatic now. You didn't have nationwide tv screen faith healers, no creationism debates, no Westboro Baptist Church.

It was founded on deism

>>332965
Pious masses and secular state.

>>335973
It's in the Constitution. The rest are historical events, there is nothing to source. Go look it up yourself

>>335764
>Barbary Wars
It wasn't that they just hated all Muslims, but they were incredibly wary of warmongers and Muslims were definitely on that list. Washington said he would accept Muslims who were "good working men" but didn't have high opinions of the not so hard working ones.

culturally yeah (mostly New england)

politically no (most legal documents outright say "we are NOT a religious country).

>>338398
>culturally yeah

What does this even mean?

>>338950
Seems pretty obvious. The average settler was Christian. Especially in new England where the puritan communities had extremely harsh religious rules that would look like ibslamic gommunism to Americans today

>>333770
Along in the coasts it is and has been for some time. In the south and midwest it still is shrinking a bit last I checked but those areas are poorer and less educated statistically and have always been the evangelical center of the US.

>>338986
Isn't that exactly what they were trying to escape though?

New england was founded on christianity, the united states was not.

>>332965
if you see the USA as a white nation then you can't deny Christian roots (americlaps will now having a hard time to differentiate between Christian culture and the religion)
if you see the USA as some multicultural state then no.

>>336008

And yet despite that, churchgoing numbers are nowhere what they used to be back then.

>>334167
>Dislike of Islam
That's why Jefferson taught himself Arabic through his personal Koran
>Possibly no knowledge of Buddhism or Hinduism
These were some of the most learned men in the western world. This was only 200 years ago

>>334193
John Jay was catholic, but non of the others were especially religious

>>336001
>Implicitly

Objectively wrong. Next.

>>333384
Reminder that people, especially Christians themselves, considered different Christian sects (Orthodoxy, Catholicism, Lutheranism, etc) to be just as different from each other as any of them are from Islam or Judaism. It wasn't until around the 1900s that a unified Christian identity sprung up.

>>333014
>what is deism

>>337784
How does that equate to a "distinct dislike of Islam"? I'm sure Washington hated Christian pirates too, does that mean he had a "distinct dislike of Christianity"?

>>340134
Founded? As in... What? There is no state religion in new England

>>340127
It's my understanding that they were fleeing the persecution of the British establishment telling them to calm the fuck down.

>>340127
They where protestants escaping Catholicism IIRC.

>>340127

The Puritans were extremely zealous, and like >>344197 said England wanted them to tone it the fuck down. But that wasn't good for them, the Puritans actively wanted to persecute the people following the "wrong" part of Christianity, so they fled from the persecution towards their need to persecute.

>>333014
All religions are memes to be honest, family..

>>333214
>most the the religious stuff was added in during the red scare of the 50's.

This. Fucking this.

>>344517
Actually, if you look at the numbers, Christianity has been steadily declining since the end of the Cold War

>>344725
The state took interest in religion as a propagandist tool against a rival state. There's no reason to assume that this would reflect or be reflected in the general population, or that the state would maintain its position as the conflict deescalated.

Well the puritans came to America because they could not save the English church due to it being corrupt.

Is the woman in OP's picture rubbing her nipple or something? Why the fuck is her hand placed so oddly

>>332965
The last state church was closed in either 1835 or 33. We literally had official state churches.

>>335750
We had state churches until 1833. That's when Boston disestablished. The constitution says congress, not the whole nation. Also, polygamy is a banned feligious belief. There's so much you are wrong about.

>>333014
That was only the Puritans in New England, and in another sense the Quakers in Pennsylvania

Maryland, Virginia, and anything south of that was people trying to make money off various cash crops
Many of the colonist were servants indentured to those landowners

>>332965
The state was founded on freemasonry, the nation was undeniably Christian. Arguments relying on the Constitution and the Treaty of Tripoli are faulty because they only give a glimpse into two specific moments of America, controlled mostly of the intellectual vanguard of the time.

>>335968
Atheism is a statement of observed fact.

Nothing more.

Secularism is what you're railing against.

And its as varied as there are there are versions of christianity.

Also it should be known that the Roman Republic lasted 482 years, thats nearly twice as long as the US has existed.

So those pagans must've been doing something right up until Ceasar showed up.

>>335968
>Rome was as far from a christian nation as you can get and look at them now.

Rome adopted Christianity as a state religion and made all other religions illegal