Is European Union historically unique or have similar projects

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>>3328268
Good question, this guy, (elected) king Jiří z Poděbrad of Bohemia wanted to create european-union-like thing, primarily as defensive aliance against Turks, but he also wanted to stop the wars and work for the common interest of all christians. He even sent diplomatic mission of several hundred knight to ride around the Eruope and to spread his idea. Sadly, (((nobles))) and (((clergy))) wanted to keep the power so he failed.

>>3328283
Thanks, that's pretty cool. I didn't know about him

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it self identifies with babylon and it lives up in broad strokes

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>>3328336
>invoke the image of babylon
>specifically the tower of babylon
>surprised when they collapse
It's like they don't know anything about chaos magic...

>>3328268

Its a new form of statehood. Its pretty unqiue and it will be interestingt to see where we are heading.

The Brexit probably will strenghten the EU.

>>3328268
>the commonwealth realm (Can, Aus, NZ, UK, and PNG for some reason) - same top level administration (lizzy), economic prioritization and cooperation, military cooperation and alliance (ww1, ww2, korea)
>NAFTA - trade agreement between Canada, US and Mexico allowing for lower tariffs and relatively easier freedom of movement
>Russia's definitely not soviet alliance of ex-soviet states (central asia + belarus)
can't think of anymore off the top of my head 2bh

>>3328268
It's completely unique. There has never been a body before to which all of its members have completely given up the supremacy of their own lawmaking, trade policymaking and with complete freedom of movement, capital and services.

The EU is a dogshit matriarichal dumpster fire that rewards countries performing the bare minimum and punishes countries for acting in their best interests, for example, not letting in those feral fucking muslims. Fuck any country that's for the EU. Also fuck Germany and Sweden; Trey Gowdy 2020.

>>3328268
>Is European Union historically unique or have similar projects been tried before?
The Soviet Union was very similar in its structure (European Commission = Politburo, European Parliament = Supreme Soviet), except it was imposed by force and in practice its structure was nothing more than a sham as there was no true democracy.

When the Soviets attempted democracy in the first free Soviet elections in history, 1991, the whole thing collapsed spectacularly.

So it will be interesting to see what happens this time around.

>>3329018
>implying that the EU is democratic

The Commission has all the power.

The Parliament is a walking joke.

The Council is a waste of space since it is just national leaders.

>>3328974
you are either retarded or im taking a bait

>>3328367
It's babel, anon

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The western hemisphere SORTA has something like it called the Organization of American States, but it's mainly used to hash out trade deals, it doesn't interfere with the sovereignty of nations.

>>3328268
There's the forum of Pacific nations or some shit.
Naturally, Australia is bigger than all the others combined, and they and maybe NZ are the only countries with any relevance within the forum.

>>3329150
>It's babel, anon
Babel is the Hebrew word for Babylon, anon.

>>3329153
>trade deals
>not interfering with the sovereignty of nations
That's the whole point of trade deals though.

>>3328411
It's a Confederacy.

>>3328268
Just thinking about this image gets me hard. Imagine if Canada and the US were included? A band of prosperous, mainly white nations united by a common goal and common heritage? It could be called the Great Northern Prosperity Ring or something. A united front to the barbarism to the south.

Japan, Australia, and New Zealand can come too.

>>3328283
It sounds like the opposite of the EU.

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>>3328268
EU version 1.0

>>3328268

The early United States.

>>3328268
I'm sure there's some Ancient Greek league or alliance that parallels could be drawn with.

>>3328974


The only incorrect part is

>Trey Gowdy 2020

>>3330134
>Babel is the Hebrew word for Babylon, anon.
Wow, this clarifies my mind. Thanks, pirate.

>>3328268

Austria-Hungary.

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>>3328268
>holy
>roman
>empire

>>3328974
The refugee quotas we're currently struggling with are set by UN, not EU.

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>>3330795
>He thinks Eastern Yurop is "prosperous"
Enjoy your gypsies building shanty towns Burger retard

>>3328268
>Carolingian Empire
>H
>R
>E
>Habsburg Empire
>Roman Empire
There's been plenty attempts

soviet union
it will probably '''''mysteriously''''' collapse one day too just like the ussr

>>3330795
>>3331219
this. fucking blueeyed american mongs. theres only 3 big players in the EU. The rest is vasall states and states that are only in it for the gibs(poland, romania, anywhere balkan or eastern europe)

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The norddeutsche bund could work as an analogy. Both allow for freedom of movement and commerce between nations.

>>3328974

>his go to example for criticism of the EU is a meme about a statistically irrelevant number of brown people

Pleb detected.

Historically unique. You just don't see major states willingly giving up their individual sovereignty for the benefit of the whole. Maybe the closest thing would be the Church in the Middle Ages, a supranational body that holds significant political sway over its constituents. Just like the Church, these constituents may resist the authority of the supranational body leading to conflict as the Investiture controversy or later the Reformation. Then as in now, England pulled out of Papism as it pulled out of the unified Europe. Both times, in effect, the English's perceived sovereignty was judged more powerful then the say so of a Continental overlord.

>>3328268
What about the Holy Roman Empire?

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>>3328268
It has been tried and nearly succeeded.

>>3329025
>The Commission has all the power.
No, thats European Council

>>3331040
>>3331825
I would argue Holy Roman Empire was more simlar to NATO than to EU

>>3328367
Occultism is gay and faggot

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I really like the fact that they use the imagery of the tower of babel
Something about people working together and accomplishing great things makes me really happy.

>>3331969
Most people appear to think otherwise, considering the negative connotations attached to the Tower of Babel.

>>3328947
Alliance of Delos?

>>3328283
protestantism wouldve torn it apart
sad boi too ahead of his time

>>3328268
While it is true that all members are there voluntarily and can leave whenever they want, it is basically a franco-german empire and that is not new, not even within europe. The only difference is that they are ruling by giving the ruled peoples money to keep them happy instead of rolling tanks in.

>>3332047
>people working together to build a more harmonious society
>they are the bad guys
wew

>>3332074
They were talking without sense and couldn't get shit done.
Perfect analogy

>>3328268
>>3330936
It's a shame but they're going to fail because of their bully attitude toward total non-agreeing members. The way they treat the members will prevent unification from ever happening and those affected will put up a defense to prevent it. The EU even want's to create an army before some kind of unification and this is a questionable move.

>>3332073
>all members are there voluntarily and can leave whenever they want
>they are ruling by giving the ruled peoples money to keep them happy instead of rolling tanks in.
I think those are pretty crucial differences

>>3332095
Well the Americans are proving to be pretty unreliable and might not have the economic might to protect europe militarily in the long run.
And isn't the EU army project based on just streamlining existing militaries to work together like NATO?

>>3332095
>It's a shame but they're going to fail because of their bully attitude toward total non-agreeing members.
How else would you treat non-agreeing members?

>>3332095
"bully-attitude" against members who dont give a fuck about the values of the eu and are just here for the money. taking eastern europe in was a mistake. well, some are okay like czechia or slovenia, but hungary and poland need to gtfo. especially considering they are pretty much the reason the brits left. trading poles for brits was a really dumb move from eu-perspective.

>>3331564
>are you actually retarded?

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>>3332074
It's not my personal opinion, but from what I've seen that's what most people take away from that image.

>>3332111
Brits were the ones who pushed for Eastern Europe entering EU in the first place.
In British mind, the bigger the EU, the more divided and weaker it is

>>3331552
Wasn't that just Greater Prussia + obedient little Saxony?

>>3331902
Apparently not many people know about it but it was the closest thing to a united Europe because it would also include all Slavs.

>>3332149
The perfidious albion strikes again

>>3332149
Words can't describe the depths of my loathing for British "people"

>>3332149
no, germany wanted them in, brits wanted them to be part of the tariffs union like turkey and norway are but no full membership. germany pushed for full membership, taking in even 3rd world shitholes like bulgaria and romania, and rest of the balkan gypsie countries are soon to follow.

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>>3332155
>>3332156
>The inferior continentals honestly thought they could stop us glorious Anglos from maintaining the balance of power throughout Europe.

>>3328268
>russia
lmao

>>3332169
>YFW by leaving the Brits removed actually the only obstacle from the EU becoming a strong, centrally governed continental power

>>3332149
If Brits hate the EU so much, why did they join in in the first place?

>>3332190
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37iHSwA1SwE

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>>3332181
It is too late, filthy T*uton slave. We have already planted the seeds of your "union's" destruction.
>>3332190
How else would we implement the policies to weaken your pathetic coalition of pesudo states?

>>3332149
>mfw David Cameron was blackmailed by the White House using his father's offshore account into pulling the UK out of the EU to hurt Germany for hosting Syrian Refugees against America's wishes

Brits think the choice was theirs.

>>3332198
>Brits think the choice was theirs.
It always was.
http://thehonestintelligence.blogspot.com.au/2013/04/united-states-of-america-is-not-what.html

>>3332190
It was shilled as an economic union not a political one to people in Britain.

>>3331564
>statistically irrelevant number of brown people

LIke the statistically irrelevant waste of money, crime. rape and conflict those people will cause.

>>3332251
correct

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>>3328283
The poles in the end always want to help Europe but are shitted on by fellow europeans

>>3332292
If you wanna help so much, you could take some refugees

>>3331188
>UN
Fucking amerishits.

It's always them

>>3332294
I'm not a pole, I'm italian.

Get rekt Hanz

>>3332300
Take the goddamn refugees, take then now,

>>3332088
That's only because God cursed them apart.

>>3332111
It was smart if you were a non-brit looking for lots of cheap labour.

>>3328469
>same top level administration (lizzy),
I wouldn't call a purely representative figure part of the administration, since the monarchy is detached from the day-to-day business of politics. The administration in the Commonwealth is much looser.

>NAFTA - trade agreement
The EU goes far beyond just trade agreements. It is also a monetary and political union.

>>3329025
>The Commission has all the power.
>The Parliament is a walking joke.
The Commission can't pass a single law without the Parliament and the Council, and the head of the Commission is at all times possible to be subject to a vote of mistrust to get replaced. Furthermore, he is appointed by the Parliament.

>The Council is a waste of space since it is just national leaders.
The Council is the most powerful entity in the political system of the EU. It also doesn't consist of national leaders, but ministers.

>>3328947
Membership of the EU is completely voluntary. The transfer of competences does not equal the giving up of supremacy, because the competences can be taken back at any time by giving up the membership.

>>3331412
>>3332073
> theres only 3 big players in the EU. The rest is vasall states and states that are only in it for the gibs(
In consultation proceedings, even the smallest EU members have veto powers.
In ordinary proceedings, the qualified vote gives them disproportionally more power than the big countries, which makes coalitions with them worthwhile.

>>3332379
>It also doesn't consist of national leaders, but ministers.
Thats Council of the European Union. European Council consists of the national leaders

>>3332387
The European Council is not part of the European Union.
The Council of the European Union is part of the European Union.

Bringing up the former in the context of the political system of the EU makes zero (0) sense.

>>3332392
>The European Council (French: Conseil européen), charged with defining the European Union's (EU) overall political direction and priorities, is the institution of the EU that comprises the heads of state or government of the member states
Sounds to me like it is part of the EU
Maybe you are talking about Council of Europe, which is indeed not part of the EU

>>3331188
I'm interested, where can I read more about this?

>>3332397
Yeah, I meant the Council of Europe, which includes even Russia.

However, when you're reading a political text about the EU and see the term "the Council", then the one that is meant is always the Council of the European Union, a.k.a. the Council of Ministers.

The poster I was responding to was comparing the primary institutions of the EU (except the European Central Bank and European Court of Justice), which are the Parliament, the Council (of Ministers) and the Commission. The European Council is not one of them, albeit it is an organ of the EU since Lissabon.
Bringing up the European Council is misleading because it doesn't even have any legislative powers, it only coordinates policymaking by giving the impulses on what to work on. He could've meant that, though, since he was talking about "national leaders".

>>3332294
Nice try germ

>>3332464
P.S.: I got confused because in my language the names of the Council of Europe and European Council both translate to the same English term.

>>3332464
I am pretty sure ALL the power is within the European Council, since EU member states are still sovereign countries and they need to agree if new policies are to be implemented.

China was pretty much a union of Asian territories.
America was originally separate States (aka Countries).
Many European empires United Countries as well.

>>3332469
h-how did you know?

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>>3332476
The European Council just decides on what the focus of work should be on. It tackles the "what should we do", but not the "how should we do it". I think that the latter has a bigger impact on outcomes.
They can agree there but the Council (of Ministers) can still come to different solutions and, more importantly, vote differently. The European Council has no legislative powers. The Council has.

If a head of a government has a tight leash on his cabinet, though, then that country's part of the European Council can have more power than the Council counterpart, because at the end of the day, the head of the government has the policy-making power.

But think about this potentiality: The government of, say, Slovakia is a coalition government. The head is from party A, the minister from party B. The head can say "I want this policy, convince the others", but the minister's party can want a different policy. So the minister votes for the different policy. The head is outraged, but what is he going to do? He can replace the minister, but the vote is through, and replacing the minister angers the coalition partner, which might even lead to the government failing and new elections taking place. So, the head gives the coalition partner that concession.

Also, remember that the Council of Europe includes the head of the Commission, which the Council does not.

>>3332477
None of those were united by peaceful means, though, contrary to the EU.

>>3328469
>NAFTA
a free narket zone is one of the first steps to what the EU is today, but it's not comparable. In fact, what it is happening nowadays with Truno is a step on the opposite direction.

The steps are

Free Market Zone
Customs Union
Common Market
Economic Union

In the 70-80's there were talks to integrate the Latin American countries into a single market, on par of what the EU is today, but due Mexico's foreign policy of approachment to USA,which ended up in the NAFTA agreement, this idea was ultimately abandoned.

It's funny when you compare what the EU is an a theorical LAU could have been in regard of what kind of obstacles both needed to face.

In Europe you have different cultures, religions, languages and the historical rivalry between countries and yet they manage to form the EU, whereas in Latin America we have a common ancestry, language, religion and I don't believe any rivalry between LA is comparable to any of Europe.

>>3332598
>and I don't believe any rivalry between LA is comparable to any of Europe.
Brasil vs. Argentina?

>The steps are
>
>Free Market Zone
>Customs Union
>Common Market
>Economic Union
You forgot the monetary union and the step after that would be a political union.

You could also prefix it with a preferential zone.

>>3332645
>prefix it
All of them, that is.

>>3332294

Fuck, the Poles can start by stopping being refugees themselves. Bexit happened more from wanting to stop Poles from coming in rather than Muslims.

>>3328268
All nations are constructs of common interest and artificial identity.

How is the European Union different from, let's say, Russia or China, also highly heterogenous unions?

>>3332535
As far as I understand, council of leaders makes the strategic long term decisions, while council of ministers is responsible for concrete legislation (which follows the strategy decision of council of leaders).
Is that wrong?

>>3332673
Freedom of movement is one of the fundamental rights of single market.
If you leave out that freedom, eastern european countries would become western colonies

>>3331902
What are you refering to?

>>3331040
This is actually a theory often brought forward in political theory.

>>3332773
This is a stupid theory though, since HRE wasn't created peacefully, there was no single market, and members weren't free to leave

>>3332759
No, that's correct.

You can read about the competences in the Treaty on European Union, art. 15 I.
>1. The European Council shall provide the Union with the necessary impetus for its development and shall define the general political directions and priorities thereof. It shall not exercise legislative functions.
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-european-union-and-comments/title-3-provisions-on-the-institutions/88-article-15.html

>>3332535
>Also, remember that the Council of Europe includes the head of the Commission, which the Council does not.
Addendum I forgot, but which is important: Both the head of the Commission and the head of the Council of Europe don't have votes in the Council of Europe.

>>3328268
Continental System

Sadly Russians and Bongs ruined it, like this time

>>3332924
>Continental System
Was established by Force.
One of the factors that makes EU unique is its peaceful and voluntary nature

>>3328268
>tfw Michael "Can't exterminate the superstate" Macron will bring back the Bourbon French King and use his popularity to unite the right and the left, with the goal of centralising the EU
>tfw the EU will become an actual world power, no more US military bases where soldiers go out and fuck as much as they can, spreading diseases all over the place

Feels good man

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>>3332943
michael?

>>3332238
That's how it was shilled everywhere.
The krauts snuck the political shit in later.

>>3333031
WRONG
Its not our fault your anglo media lies to you

>>3333034
Dutch media is controlled by anglos too?
Good to know.

>>3333031
>>3332238
Great Britain joined in 1973, long after integration beyond economic ones had already taken place, such as the establishment of the European Court of Justice in 1957 (Treaty of Rome).

It's also silly to, for example, say after almost 50 years of practicing police cooperation (TREVI in 1975) go and say "we just noticed that we didn't want the thing we've been doing for 50 years all along and just want economic integration".

>>3332379
>The Commission can't pass a single law without the Parliament and the Council

Neither have the political will to block anything. And the Commission PROPOSES the laws in the first place.

>at all times possible to be subject to a vote of mistrust to get replaced

A power that has never been used because it is impossible to get the votes for it.

>Council is the most powerful entity in the political system of the EU

Only theoretically. In practice it isn't.

>It also doesn't consist of national leaders, but ministers.

I meant minsters.

>The transfer of competences does not equal the giving up of supremacy

I've never been swayed by this argument. The possibility of regaining your independence doesn't mean that you are independent.

>>3333083
>Neither have the political will to block anything.
This is evidently false, since laws get rejected and revised after failing to gain a majority in the EP all the time.

>A power that has never been used because it is impossible to get the votes for it.
It's "impossible" to get votes for it because it's the EP that selects a proper candidate in the first place, which prevents abject failures not supported by the EP to become head of the Commission, in which case such a measurement would be necessary.
But if they wanted, they could do it literally at any time.

>Only theoretically. In practice it isn't.
Who else is then, and why?

>I've never been swayed by this argument. The possibility of regaining your independence doesn't mean that you are independent.
Then there's not a single independent country in the world because international treatise exist that they subject themselves to.
And you're not an independent person because you have a job.

>>3333120
Also, a two-thirds majority is far from "impossible".

>>3333071

Yes? Look up who owns RTL.

>>3332763
>If you leave out that freedom, eastern european countries would become western colonies

Why woudl that be wrong? Slavs would surely be granted full rights once uplifted to the moral and more importantly wealth level of westerners.

>>3328268
>EU reaches all the way to the Pacific
>Still hasn't recaptured Constantinople

>>3333230

There is no point in having Constantinople if there is no christian Emperor of Rome/earth.

Why do Deus Vult posters never understand medieval mindsets and worldviews?

>>3333193
>and more importantly wealth level of westerners.
That would never happen, since colonial politics would prevent slavic countries from modernizing. Just look at what Brits did with India

>>3333187
Seems to be majority German/Belgian, anon.

>>3333246
>implying Merkel isn't Christian

>>3332150
It was everything except Bavaria, Baden and Württemberg, I think.

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>>3330900
>Roman Empire
>Western half collapses due to letting in a load of unassimilatible outsiders
>Eastern half enters slow 1000 year long death spiral

huh

>>3332673
British cuckoldry never ceases to amuse me.
>Polish out, Pakis in

>>3328268
>EU-Rightful_territory
>no Svalbard or Iceland

>>3332109
They need to study how the Thirteen Colonies united. EU and it's overreaching bureaucracy has only made people suspicious. They need to loosen up the grip because it's to Brussels-centric.

>>3333909
Why is it Brussels-centric and what do you propose how "loosening the grip" is supposed to look like?

What about the bureaucracy is "overreaching"?

>>3333821
>projecting modern politics onto rome
Unlike today, Byzantium was far richer than the western roman empire.

>>3334033
I'd say making threats to members is overreaching when they're simply making independent state decisions that aren't economic.

>>3334088
What "threats"? The individual member states have to uphold the laws, which they agree to by joining and staying in the European Union.
When they don't, they get sanctioned. There's nothing overreaching about this when everyone agreed that this is the modus operandi. Otherwise, there'd be no point in passing literally any law.

>>3332294
.t Merkel

>>3331582
Submitting to the Catholic Church wasn't a voluntary thing. Whole crusades and wars were fought for the supremacy of the Catholic Church.

It's also debatable whether "England" (i.e., Great Britain) will be and will be perceived to be more sovereign or not, depending on whether they'll turn into another Norway or Switzerland after the Brexit happens in 2019. That is, having to submit to the European standards and paying in without having a vote.

The roman empire united a lot of peoples which got to keep their culture to a certain degree, but its obviously not really like the EU.

People who made or tried to make a European Union:

>Roman Empire
>Catholic Church
>Central Powers
>Nazis

Now it exists. But that's just pure coincidence, right?