How the fuck did the Russians let so many of their armies get

>>3327706
The purge happened. Which scaked a lot of senior military officers.

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Stalin ordered them to stand down,he didn't want to instigate the German,also the Russians are poorly organized due to the recent purges
also the eastern steppes are perfect grounds for German maneuver warfare,the only advance where the German had trouble was with the Southeastern front in the Pripyat marshes

>>3327706
After the purge, all the remaining generals took time in the planning room to see who could have the most vodka. Needless to say, they got piss drunk and just started drawing shit on the map and everyone just went with it.

>>3327706
It took them some time to sober up and realize it is not a prank.

>>3327706
Panic, most of army leaders runned away leaving their soldiers behind.

STAVKA giving no one any direction

>Purge this, purge that
And what purge was in effect during August 1914 when the Russian army suffered just as big military failure?

The senior officers - the new Red cadres or the ex-Tsarist officers - would have not changed a thing. Hell, the new officers saved from purging and those elevated shortly after, even with their lack of war experience were better trained for the new unknown 'Blitzkrieg' than the old officers still following seniority quidelines and nothing else.

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>>3327706
They were invaded amid a massive reorganization program.

>>3327979
>Hindenberg outsmarting Samsonov while Russia was invading Prussia is equivalent to the entire Russian front getting split into pockets while on the defensive

Did purges happen in France and Poland too?
How could you explain that German offensive was stopped in the end?
German military strategy was most advanced at the start of war.
It took some time for Soviets to adapt to it.

>>3328109
>German military strategy
More like tactics and officer corps, on the strategical level they were not exactely coherent. You can't expect to defeat Russians in a decisive battle.

>>3327706
Because they kept the bulk of their army right near the border with little in the way of operational reserves. As soon as the Germans made initial breakthroughs, they were in a position to encircle mass quantities of Soviet troops.

>>3328109
>>3327979
The major effect of the purges wasn't so much the removal of senior brass and replacing them with new people. It's that the STAVKA was now in, and aware of being in a position where they only serve at Stalin's pleasure. This in turn subordinated pure effectiveness to political doctrine. The primary reason the Soviets had this "defend at the border, counterattack at the first sign of war", was that Stalin wanted every inch of sacred soviet soil protected, and nevermind that this plan for defending it is retarded as fuck.

>>3328019
what purges did french & british army had?

radios

>>3327706
Not a stebb bagg! :DDD

>>3328109
>German military strategy was most advanced at the start of war.
Bullshit.

Soviets had better tanks. They even had heavy tank years before the Germans.
>>3327706
Soviets were preparing for offensive war on someone elses territory, their defence was weak because they thought they won't need it.

>>3328225
>Soviets had better tanks. They even had heavy tank years before the Germans.

Such a shame they had no idea what to do with them or how to coordinate them.

>>3327706
a myriad of reasons, the core ones being:

1. panic - there really was no warning for the Red Army to be prepared for an all out invasion, they did prepare for border skirmishes as tensions heightened, but even as the British informed Stalin that Germany was preparing a full invasion, the officers and troops on the frontline were never alerted, and Stalin dismissed the warnings. So when invasion happened, most troops on the ground had no idea what to do in order to mount a defense as no arrangements or drills were made in case of an invasion.

2. communication between Axis forces - Having radios installed in tanks and other motorized vehicles meant that formations miles away could work in tandem with other divisions, working together to encircle soviet troops from the 2 opposite sides of the encirclement.

3. Red Army leadership - the USSR was still trying to reorganize the army from the ground up after the purging of their officer corps, with most officers that refilled the ranks never having any real training in leadership or tactics, not knowing how to set up the logistics for supply trains or how to command formations effectively. It took a full 5 months before the Red Army's leadership was fully filled with experienced and trained men to lead the defense of Moscow and set up supply lines for the besieged Leningrad.

Though the story of the Red Army in WW2 truly is fascinating, to see a military that's been purged of its officer corps and filled with inexperienced leadership transform into the strongest land army the world has ever seen throughout the war.

>>3328225
>Soviets were preparing for offensive war on someone elses territory, their defence was weak because they thought they won't need it.
That's why they built Molotov Line?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_Line

>>3328279
>most officers that refilled the ranks never having any real training in leadership or tactics, not knowing how to set up the logistics for supply trains or how to command formations effectively.
You know, there are officer schools and military exercises for that purpose.

>It took a full 5 months before the Red Army's leadership was fully filled with experienced and trained men
What? Where did they take those men from?

>>3328279
>2. communication between Axis forces - Having radios installed in tanks and other motorized vehicles meant that formations miles away could work in tandem with other divisions, working together to encircle soviet troops from the 2 opposite sides of the encirclement.
To arrange encirclement on strategic level you don't need radio on every tank, it gives you you tactical advantage though.

>>3327706
Most of the area they just conquered didn't have maps or fortifications so they had no idea what they were doing. The soviet army was meant to attack they never expected someone else to be as shitty humans as they were. They left their former strong deffensive positions to the new front but these old fortifications were getting old and neglected by the time they retreated back to them. Another factor is the ammount of planning and intelligence the germans put in place before the attack.
>>3327716
Also this, some of their best officers were eliminated and some of these were plots by the germans to get the russian to do exactly that.

>>3328430
>Another factor is the ammount of planning and intelligence the germans put in place before the attack.

Interesting, but from what I've heard German intelligence was notoriously bad and underestimated Soviet capabilities. Do you have anything we can read on the subject?

>>3328439
Yes read the book SMERSH, it gives the perspective of the russians which is correct when you said the germans underrestimated it but that's only post 1941, maybe mid 1942. Before that german intelligence and espionage was second to none. There are still some mysteries as to how they obtained varyous information and even when russia had its insane espionage game in 1942 the germans knew exactly about these offices and where they were but the german manpower was extremely low compared to the russians and they couldn't compete. These factors helped the russians: their cynical approach to oppression, they oppressed their soldiers more than the enemy and if you weren't at the right place or the right time a better equiped NKVD officer would either execute you on the spot or put you on "trial" to be executed later. They had entire armies made just to keep men fighting and NKVD officers would sometimes pretend to surrender to germans only to throw some grenades at them and run. This made any russian deserter who could give info a target for angry germans. The germans tried to get around but their plans were always foiled because the members of their intelligence school were 1/5th russian spies who would inform the soviets when germans infiltrated.

There's a lot more about how crazy russians were about shooting anyone who coughed a bit but the german espionage and archives of russian positions were extensive pre 1941

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>>3328225

>german strategy...
>muh look at the tanks 1!1!1

Yeah...

The Soviets were aware of the importance of tanks but were in no way able to utilize them properly.

Their officers and crews weren't trained nearly enough to engage in the high-manouver kind of warfar modern tank warfare demands.

Often their tank divisions were severly undermototrized slowing the tanks to a crawl negating any tactical advantages tanks have.

>>3328439
I have no reading suggestions for you but the Germans also had no real idea about the fuel demands and infrastructure conditions the soviet union would burden the Wehrmacht with.

They didn't calculate how many trucks they would need (because of the rail fuck up the SU was) and how fast they would burn to their existing stock of trucks, tires etc.

Oh and nobody has mentioned the crippling offensive of the Luftwaffe that intercepted strategic communications, the chain of command etc.

>>3328488
Sounds like Russian apologetics tbqh.

The Germans were never strong on intelligence and they had no idea what an enemy the SU would be.

>>3328488
>their intelligence school were 1/5th russian spies
No, they just recruited people from PoW camps and part of them deserted back to Soviets after crossing the front line.