>(((((((((modernism))))))))) >(((((((((post-modernism)))))))))

dont let 4chan corrupt the way you think

>>3300352
It doesn't take 4chan to know that postmodernism is cancer

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>>3300340
Death of spirituality and it's replacement with materialism

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>>3300439

>>3300443
>>3300439
Horseshoe theory in action?

>>3300352
post 1 example of modern architecture that is not at least 2 (two) of the following

1: blocky
2: just a plain geometric shape that you could find in a middle school textbook that we are expected to consider "creative" because you did it in a building
3: monolithic
4: fanciful
5: labored
6: harboring large featureless voids of concrete/brick
7: polygonic
8: inaccessible
9: kitschy
10: made to look like a machine despite there being no necessity for it to be that way

>>3300626
Your subjective list of vague characteristics you don't like is obviously made to exclude any yucky modern buildings that you feel anybody could respond to you with.

Of course, the lust is so exhaustive you could find at least two characteristics for nearly any western architectural movement.

>>3300377
t. kid who just found jordan peterson and thinks they're an expert on post-modernism, which he understand at all and only uses as a synonym for anything that he doesn't like, but actually doesn't care about in reality and only pretends to hate it to look cool to a few anonymous basement dwellers on a Kazakh Fingerpainting Imageboard

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>>3300693
Haha its okay buddy the fact remains that anything modern or postmodern is retarded and ugly, and everything classical and romantic is beautiful and uplifting.

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>>3300626
Frank Gehry stuff?

>>3300793
how the fuck do you even enter the damn thing

You mean specifically relating to architecture? I agree, ugly af.

But I think both the modernist and post-modernist movements did a lot for art, and philosophy as a whole. To label it all under "muh jewish marxist anarcho destroying western values" conspiracy is pretty dumb OP when there was a lot of things, especially in the modernist movements that you would probably agree with. (Futurism for one).

I'm partial to traditionalism myself, but not the Judeeo-Christian pseudo-traditionalism of you faggots. You're a modernist and you don't even know it.

>>3300732
Lol, stay butthurt.
Never forget how much money you wasted paying to be brainwashed like a subhuman.

>>3300738
>Eifell's tower is retarded and ugly

Yet it became the symbol of Paris.

>>3300851
That means jack shit.

FUCK THE EIFFEL TOWER AND REAL TRADITIONALIST FRENCHMEN SPITS AT IT!

>>3300340
I usually hate postmodernist buildings but that's a hella nice one.

>>3300812
A door like any other building

>>3300812
that's up to you to interpret

>>3300911
Brutalism =/= post modernism

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what's wrong, not enough statues of naked babies?

>>3301024
This one is good.

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>>3301044
idk why but Slovakia has some intriguing pomo arch

this is their national archives (if you don't know, it looks like a movable book stack)

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>>3300340

Modernist architecture was inevitable as industrial society became dominant. Modernism's focus on boxes, cold conformity, and large spaces was in service of the new machines that had been built and grafted inside existing structures. Things like private automobiles, semi trucks, computers, air conditioning, and so forth all needed new spaces and new systems old buildings couldn't have. So, a new style was created. Pic very much related.

The only problem is that industrial society is inherently dynamic which means architects and planners have to be careful not to destroy old capacity. This is what (unfortunately) occurred with NY Penn Station, which was completely torn down and replaced with Pan Am's new headquarters (complete with a helicopter shuttle directly to their terminal at JFK, obviously). However by 2005 the helicopter service was long dead due to safety issues, Pan Am was bankrupt, meanwhile Amtrak found itself with an undersized station (essentially a converted parking garage) as ridership soared after the Acela was built. This is what is presently driving Cuomo's NY Empire Station Complex across the street at the old post office, which (hopefully) will one day connect into a new set of Hudson Tubes.

Which is to say, there's nothing wrong with Modernism itself it's just that planners are often too blinded by the present to make serious decisions on what they need to keep. In the case of Boston Government Center specifically, the fuckhuge "forum" (parking lot) didn't need to exist and the neighborhood that once stood there should have remained (especially as now it would have been razed and rebuilt with five star hotels and hipster apartments). But this is also a thing industrial society is weary of.

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>>3301065

wrong image

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>>3300693
I assure you, none of the characteristics are ambiguous enough to be stretched over a genuinely good piece of architecture.

>>3300793
>dude, make it wavy and wonky! lmao
looks like something out of a theme park

I get the impression he is onto something yet never uses it, like an artist saying "look, I can't paint with red!"

>>3300340
Why did you pick such a flattering angle? Doesn't help your argument that my dick gets hard looking at this image.

Ah, the alt-right echo
((()))
It symbolizes Jews and vaginas, the two things /pol/acks hate the most.

>>3300907
Real traditionnalists frenchmen are a bunch or monarchist cucks

>>3300582
No, he's simply stating that Capitalism and Marxism have similar (and incorrect) worldviews with different ways to enact them. He doesn't use that idea to advocate for some sort of centrist stance.

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>>3301083

/pol/ isn't /r9k/

The fourteen words are "We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children, because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth.". In this sense /pol/ is actually hardcore feminist, which makes more sense when one considers them to be on the same level of Woodrow Wilson (who gave women the right to vote but couldn't stand being in the same room with blacks). Most have probably fucked someone in their lives, even if it was their sister.

>>3301079
>I assure you, none of the characteristics are ambiguous enough to be stretched over a genuinely good piece of architecture.
Baroque: kitsch, fanciful, labored
Arts & Crafts: fanciful, labored
Neoclassical: Monolithic, blocky
Gothic revival: labored, fanciful
etc

>I don't like X
Cool, but this is /his/ not /opinions/ so you should go bitch somewhere else.

>>3300340
I bet you think good architecture is some disgusting, american, dense amalgamation of neoclassicism (which is already disgusting, uninspired piles of shit) and gothic.

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Some modernist styles can be quite pretty if left alone by (((corrupting forces))).

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Materialism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAExa9P7hME

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>>3301098
Many examples of these styles are guilty as charged, though not all. Sometimes a baroque building avoids being overseasoned, sometimes neoclassical monoliths are aesthetically proportioned not gauche monstrosities, when they avoid these mistakes they are beautiful. I walked into the oval room of the French national library when it reopened and it felt like that point in a dream where you realize something's not normal and you have to ask yourself if this is real or not. I have never experienced anything remotely like this with modern architecture.

The thing is I don't want to see more of the old, anyone who attempted it today would just make it kitschy anyway. It happened, it was great and now it's done. I want to find something new that is just as inspired, I want to be part of something and think that maybe future generations will want to be here with us to see it.

>>3300340
Never.

I hope the west rots.

>>3300340
It's a combination of hatred towards Europe and her traditions with fetishization of materialism and autistic utilitarianism.
E.g.
>baroque opulence and adoration of classical styles are horrible, they represent thousands of years of patriarchal oppression + they are UNORIGINAL and GAUDY and TACKY and KITSCH (notice this word only appeared in the 19th century), we need something new for the sake of being new!
+
>we don't actually NEED architecture to be pretty, all architecture should serve function and utility, easthetics don't exist

>>3300851
Paris is a degenerate shithole since the (((Republic)))

Notre Dame de Paris or the Sacré Coeur as symbols of Paris are far better

>>3300812
"Entering" is inherently sexist, racist and misogynist form of speech.

>>3300340
>modernism is the jews!!!
>refusal of modernism is also the jews!!!!

What the fuck do you mean?

>>3301226
I want biologically inspired buildings rather than geometrically inspired ones. Not ramshackle, but shaped in ways corresponding with biology. It's both very aesthetically pleasing, and will symbolize the growing power of biotechnology.

I think the bulky and blocky steel/glass/concrete architecture is specifically designed to say "FUCK YOU, WE RULE YOU" to the masses, as a show of power that the elite circles have over the common man.

>>3300832
lol wtf are you even talking about?

>>3301024
Boli sme králi, kurva.

>>3301092
nigga, that is 28 words.

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>>3301047
>Slovakia
You mean specifically Bratislava.

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Boston represent! It was voted the ugliest building in the world btw. But if you think that's something just wait:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/09/07/the-dream-behind-boston-forbidding-government-service-center/zmTu4rsTtcfTqQKjy8sbtO/story.html

>>3300812
The door's on the other side. But more importantly what >>3300998 said

>>3300340
>they destroyed entire neighborhoods full of architecturally significant buildings for this monstrosity

>>3300626
There's literally nothing wrong with 3 4 5 and 7

>>3300732
Holy shit why is this shitty board so cynical? It's like people refuse to entertain different ideas so they just post some shit like this.

>>3301133
T jew who thinks everything beautiful is anachronistic.

>>3301079
Some Frank Gehry I don't like but some is nice.
The inside of the Walt Disney Concert is a very nice space as is the outside. His house is also nice.
Not a fan of the EMP, one of my least favorite of his buildings. Not sure what happened there.

>>3300340
Gothic architecture 2: current year boogaloo.
Abhorred today, beautiful tomorrow.

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>>3301024

>>3300340
>When will all these disgusting buildings be replaced?

Hopefully never

>>3300738
Everything classical and romantic is disgusting trash, kill yourself

>>3300911
>>3301011
Postmodernist architecture is anti-brutalist

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How do you call this kind of designs?

>>3307372
物語

>>3307382
I don't understand
I don't know of any design philosphy known as "story"

You know, a lot of those uglyblock modern/post modern buildings wouldn't be so bad if they threw in some decorative pillars or gargoyle. Which of the buildings wouldn't be vastly improved by sticking a bigass gargoyle on top of it?

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Why is Neo-Futurism the best?

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here comes I!

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>>3307439

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>>3307440

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>>3307442

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>>3307453

Why is everything that comes from contemporary movements so... ugly? Art, architecture, politics, economics, writing, comedy etc. It's all so fucking ugly and annoying.

>>3306303
t. mad &humanities deconstructorfag

>>3307804
That's so fucking stupid. There is nothing to get a hold of, a retarded amalgamation of rounded shapes borne out of a mind that hates beautiful things.

>>3307801
>>3307804
>>3307809
>>3307817
Please stop

>>3307814
looks like a gehry, an artist famous for slapping down large slabs of metal and calling it art.

If it's really big and has no right angles, it must be art right?

I actually really like most of these designs.

>>3300732
>it's a "you don't understand it" episode
Understand that post-modernism is shit and no amount of philosophy will make it anything but.

Every town or a city that has its old centrum intact is far more enjoyable, beautiful, engages the person walking around in it, is more down to earth and more human than some concrete, metal and glass shitpile designed from 1960s to this day. They also look so fucking out of place.

How much of a difference do aesthetically pleasing buildings make, when you factor in the fact that different people subjectively prefer different styles?

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What makes Art Deco so different from other kinds of modernism? I find it so aesthetic.

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>>3307920
It was an era of optimism in the U.S.

>lol lets make everything ugly and nihilistic because that's progress lmao fuck those old and beautiful buildings found in European city centres

>>3307963
The problem is, you sperg, those "old and beautiful buildings" were made in a cultural climate and era that no longer exists.

Just because you're trapped in babby's first romantic idealism, doesn't mean anyone has to listen to your shtick.

This kind of art is only possible with a lot of presence of mind, and color cohesion. Not only that but having some consistency in the boredom can do a lot to make post modern architecture look decent. Most cities don't have this kind of cohesion but simple steps can be taken to modify an existing city. Maybe one day when we are right we can have a makeover.

>>3301092
>because the beauty of the White Aryan woman must not perish from the earth

Did you just make that up? Can you count to 14?

>>3308051
I can count to 88

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>>3307460
Ayy Lmao

>>3307410
London has to be the ugliest city in the west

>>3307410
Wellcome to City 17

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>>3308197
>>3307410

>>3307410
>Owner: state of Qatar
>London
Not even surprised

>>3300340
Feels more brutalistic too me, anon. It looks fucking amazing anyway.

>>3304413
it is weird enough that it will be considered beautiful in 100 years

>>3308314
This is such a reddit tier meme

In 50 years when classical architecture is back in fashion, people on 4chan will be bitching about it not being as good as "good old fashioned" modernism.

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>>3307986
>unironically being an edgy iconoclast
>"hehe these buildings are COLD and SHARP like my SOUL"

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>>3300626
well that was fucking easy

>>3300907
>being such a tradcuck that you despise one of your country's greatest engineering achievements simply because "it's ugly"

I bet you want us to go back to living in houses built out of shit and sticks and live our lives as disease-ridden subsistence farmers don't you

>>3300340
the point of that style of buildings is to endure air bombings

>>3307814
it's in Las Vegas, that's the point you dumb nigger

>>3307920
it isn't modernism. It was the last gasp of monumental architecture, and eventually evolved into modernism.

>>3308397
Las Vegas is a shithole

>>3307372
Always loved the aesthetics of that game.

>>3308374
Yeah, an achievement in overengineering, maybe. It's a fucking rust bucket, and you contradict yourself completely by accusing someone of being a "tradcuck" meanwhile defending a Blackpool Tower knockoff just for the sake of longevity.

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>>3308406
>>3308406
exactly. It's a city where everything is tacky, temporary, and, no matter how much it cost to build and maintain, any one of those buildings could come crashing down the moment the Casino market demands it.

Gehry designed a building that perfectly reflected the culture and environment into which it was born. It's honest. And that's why people hate it. They want to surround themselves with buildings that lie to them; That tell them they're great and that nothing ever has to change. They don't want honest architecture.

Modernism boomed as capitalism first reached truly dizzying heights, and the only direction seemed to be upwards. It reflected the beauty of maximum efficiency, streamlined design and convenience.

Post Modernism, like Gehry's work and pic related, came at a time of great upheaval, the introduction of neoliberalism and increasing social inequality and debt, as the rich got richer and vainer, and the poor got poorer and weaker. Post-modernism reflected the wants and desires of the cultureless nouveau-riche, who, unlike centuries of previous bourgeois generations at the cutting edge of art and architecture, wanted the traditional. Rather than wanting to be seen as culturally ahead, rather than following philosophical and architectural movements movements (whether it be palladianism or arts-and-craft, art deco or International Style), the new rich wanted what they saw as the trappings of luxury, which, to them, was inevitably the luxury of the past. Post-modernist architecture reflected the tastes of an upper-class society no longer concerned with the avant-garde, but which wanted its own slice of Trump-Tower style mashup of modernism, palladianism, mock-tudor, Mediterranean, suburban architecture with a pool and a hot tub and two SUVs to retire to, and that's what they got.

People don't like post-modernism because it tells them the honest truth: their taste is tacky, disorderly, and regressive. They're in denial.

>>3308469
Reddit tier post

>>3308473
>this is his only response to having his architectural taste utterly and eternally BTFO

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>>3301041
noice

>>3308478
Nah, it really is reddit.
>people hate the building because it's honest, other building are lying to them
Pseudointellectual faggotry you pulled out of your ass.
>muh divide between rich and poor
Completely unrelated to the issue at hand. You sound like a run of the mill academia Marxist who masturbates to Foucault and Baudrillard.

>>3300582
No, what he means is that capitalism and communism both speak of "good" only in terms of materialism and money. That is the world is constructed around the bottom line is some form, and that any construction of this world is bad.

>>3308497
>>muh divide between rich and poor
>Completely unrelated to the issue at hand.

I'll concede that. What I meant was that post-modernism came at a time when social inequality first began to skyrocket as opposed to staying largely static in the previous decades, and that this was part of the wider context of post-modernism as a reaction against that (and the perceived failure of modernism) but I articulated it in a way that makes me sound like a marxist

>>3308518
Nonsense. Inequality peaked in the mid to late 19th century all over the western world, if anything it has only went down since.

>>3308527
>in the previous decades
yeah inequality now is lower than the 19th century, but it is significantly higher than the '60s and '70s. I'm not arguing against muh ebil capitalism (I consider myself a neoliberal) but I'm just trying to explain what postmodernism was trying to do.

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>>3300340
That building looks awesome, you dingus.

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>>3308518
Post-modernism isn't a reaction against modernism, it is modernism taken to the logical extreme. Where modernism said "let's add a dash of spice", post-modernism said "everyone loves spice, let's just make a meal of nothing but spice!" Post-modernism is the equivalent of that KFC sandwich that replaces buns with more chicken. It's our organic society churning out a certain something in overdrive to the point that it's unhealthy, like a cancerous tumor. No, if you want to see reaction, the reaction will be when the tumor is removed because for better or worse the anti-postmodern pressure cooker is boiling over and the establishment refuses to release any pressure.

>>3301022
>>3301024
>>3301028
>>3301030
All of these look amazing

>>3301232
Kitsch appeared in 19th century iniatilly with the market for shallow sketches. And you know, those who studied or study the concept of kitsch aren't some leftist boogeymen your head came up with, the wiki page on kitsch cites Roger Scruton of all people. Your mistake is a typical one for a 4channer, you assume that anyone who loathes eclecticist monstrosities or l'art pompier necessarily hates tradition because your scope of art history is painfully limited.

>>3308564
It's not a problem of leftist vs rightist really. Socialist realism was leftist and still aesthetic as fuck.

>>3300340
Brutalist architects need to be arrested for vandalism

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>>3308567
>aesthetic as fuck
Are you by any chance a fan of Thomas Kinkade?

>>3308584
No idea who that is.

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>>3308559
>Post-modernism isn't a reaction against modernism, it is modernism taken to the logical extreme.

m8 one of the most important books of post-modernist architecture is 'learning from Las Vegas' in which Robert Venturi pretty much says "alright lads these modernist buildings are shite let's build decorated sheds instead".

I'm not going to bother arguing over a KFC metaphor but to sum it up:

Modernism - form follows function - the entire building is a machine designed to facilitate the task taking place within it

Modernism is essentially serving an unseasoned roast chicken with boiled potatos and vegetables for dinner and saying "that's yer lot"

Postmodernism - essentially states that the idea of 'form follows function' is the equivalent of building an egg stand that looks like a giant duck (named after a real such stand in upstate New York) and that instead we should go back to 'decorating sheds' - i.e. simple structures which convey their intended task through the ornamental vocabulary built up over hundreds of years of western culture

essentially saying "actually hang on unseasoned chicken is a bit boring and nobody likes it let's roast it in a pot with onion, squash, paprika and tomato and serve it with potato wedges"

pic related, it's the plain roast chicken with boiled veg

>>3308342
The chance of this happening is literally fucking nill because nobody is EVER complaining classical architecture.

>>3308567
Socialist realism is the most disgusting style of art in the history of humanity

>>3308996
t. Mischa Goldstein

>>3307963
"Beauty" is for tasteless plebs like you

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>>3309002
>real patricians embrace ugliness

>>3309011
That's true, yes, posting a photo of a guy with le funny hat doesn't change that.

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>>3309022
No its completely false. Patrician taste never said left was better than right.
Grow up fag

>>3309002
Please do elaborate. Why do I have to suffer seeing garbage in my living space?

>>3308599
If postmodern buildings ought to be "decorated sheds", why are they such a goddamn eyesore?

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>St. Louis in 1904

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>>3310089
>St. Louis fifty years later

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>>3308469
That building is so cancerous that even a bland modernist box is preferable to that

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>>3310091
>St. Louis another 50 years later

>>3310075
Because they're doing it ironically, as a sort of mockery
Post modernism is what Las Vegas is to Traditionalist European cities
In a way, postmodernism is a slut wearing a nun costume

>>3310089
MUH GREEEEEEEKS
ugly as sin

>>3300851
I still prefer Notre Dame, the eiffel tower is literally just the skeleton of a pyramidal structure

>>3301028
I've never realized that thing looks like a minecraft animal

>>3301827
Post-modernism is not the refusal of modernism, it's taking modernity to the extreme, akin of stretching a rubber to see were it snaps

>>3310122
But that's fucking stupid.
>hehe I only did it ironically and to get a rise out of you!
Story of art movements since the 60s.

>>3302996
this

>>3307776
because everything is subjective didn't you get the memo? you don't need objective beauty and aesthetics everything is relative

>>3307804
looks like a 5 year old paint doodle brought to life

>>3308469
>wants to comment on shit
>makes more shit
>ahahah my shit shows how your shit is bad

He could have tried to create a legitimately nice building and let that speak for itself but no he has to go and put shitty symbolism in it

>>3310194
Well shit, I guess I'll go swim in a shit sewer then. After all it's only subjectively bad for you :^)

>>3307388
V A P O R W A V E

>>3307814
>>3308397
>>3307804
Las Vegas? Like a tourist attraction? Except they copied ground zero instead of the Pyramids?

>>3300439
you know that evola was an Expressionist (modernist) artist, right?

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ever notice how those who decry "modern" (most of the time they actual mean contemporary) art in 4chan threads have the most trite, platitudinous taste?

>>3308342
>In 50 years when classical architecture is back in fashion
imagine being this delusional

>>3310122
so post modernism is the "Joke's on you I was just pretending to be retarded" of arquitecture?

>>3310273
>you're an unsophisticated, uncultured, traditional philistine who just doesn't get it!
What a boring, overused attack against those who don't enjoy contemporary art movements lacking any kind of substance.

>>3307920
It still believed in the importance ornamental aspects of a structure
Other modernism is just bare bones

>>3310339
>What a boring, overused attack
as opposed to the clever and fresh (((jew parenthesis)))

>>3310348
So you're a jew?

>>3310348
meme replies get meme replies

>>3310348
Where did I give off the impression that I use (())? Or are you just thinking that I must, because I disagree with you on the value and aesthetics of contemporary art movements?

>>3310381
In the OP.

>>3310395
I sm not OP you fucking idiot.

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>>3310279
Yes
Even modernism has more revolutionary zeal and ideal than that
Post modernism is basically 'anything goes'
>>3310273
There are some really great modern architecture out there, but you cant deny that average 'modern' buildings are terrible, for every Louis kahn, you get 1000000 soulless prefabricate building
Either way the main problem with modern architecture is how it distance itself from old vernacular, creating building with no ties to the land and its identity, Im leaning toward bit of both, an architecture should be a product of its time, yet it also must be borne out of the land its build upon, architects, current avant garde non commercial architecture trends are heading toward that direction thankfully, look up to 'critical regionalist movement'

>>3310396
Let's be real, people like you are interchangeable and indistinguishable.

>>3310515
>the main problem with modern architecture is how it distance itself from old vernacular, creating building with no ties to the land and its identity,
But that's good you shitlord! If you created art that has ties to its land and traditions you'd encourage traditionalism, nationalism, conservatism and nazism!

Ever noticed that autists that think that aesthetics are an objective science also just happen to think that objectively good taste just happens to align with their own?

>>3310541
So are you, the typical faggot who praises originality for originality's sake. As if a building that looks like something out of a post-apocalyptic game or a formless heap of metal and glass like the Gehry ITT is good because it's oh so rebellious and tries to compete against tastelessness of past eras by shoving that very same tastelessness to its logical extreme just to make a banal statement of some kind.

>>3308564
> saying you loathe stuff that clearly takes great skill and mastery of craft while insisting that other people are limited in the scope of their appreciation

History will decide what's good and what's not. That some works sell at high prices today, or that certain architects are sought after, may simply indicate that most people are prone to mindless conformity and easily duped by marketing.

Personally I think a lot of contemporary art and architecture is overrated while a lot of older stuff is underrated, at least by the masses, but we can agree to disagree. History makes fools of most of us in one way or another.

>>3307372
Modernism with some Scandinavian minimalism

>>3310564
>skill and mastery
Irrelevant to aesthetics. You're a child.
>history will decide
Fuck off, democrat. muh populus is the biggest scam in history.

>>3310339
>it lacks substance because i dont understand! where's the allegory for virginity? WTF?!!?! I CANT MASTURBATE MY MORAL PENIS TO THIS

>>3310586
>you just don't get it!
ebin defense my man

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>>3308527

>https://ourworldindata.org/income-inequality/
>What we can learn from this long-term perspective is summarized in the visualisation below. Consider the case of the USA, in the left panel. Before the Second World War up to 18% of all income received by Americans went to the richest 1%. After that point, and up until the early 1980s, the share of the top 1% dropped substantially (first quickly, and then more slowly in the 1970s)

>After the 1980s inequality in the USA started increasing, and eventually returned to the level of the pre-war period. We see that this U-shaped long-term trend of top income shares is not unique to the USA. In fact the development in other English-speaking countries, also shown in the left panel, follows the same pattern.

>>3310586
>I CANT MASTURBATE MY MORAL PENIS TO THIS
This statement applies more to contemporary movements since every other piece's statement is along the lines of blah blah inequality blah blah racism blah blah discrimination blah.

Thread full of stupid cunts from /pol/

I feel like we're slowly recovering.
The building now are less disgusting than the ones in the 50's, 60's, 60's and 70's.

>>3310960
80's and 90's

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>>3310200
>He could have tried to create a legitimately nice building and let that speak for itself

he does and has, many times, which is why picking a single example of a building intentionally designed to look like it's being demolished and calling an architect and an entire philosophical movement shit is a terrible way of arguing.

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>>3310091
I know you're criticising the architecture itself but the projects are a terrible example of modernist planning because the entire point of building upwards was to make more space at ground level for parks, recreation and open spaces while keeping population density the same - "A city amongst the trees".

It seems to me that the projects in your example merely used modernism as an excuse to pack as many poor people into as little space as possible, against the spirit of Corbusier's original ideals.

>>3310988
>because the entire point of building upwards was to make more space at ground level for parks, recreation and open spaces
But this is also retarded. Have you ever been to a properly-designed modernist suburban mid to high-rise development? They are incredibly boring and uninviting, walkability is a joke, there's zero community spirit, services are low to non-existent. There's a reason they're often called sleeper suburbs. It's where wage-slaves trudge to at the end of their day to sit in their little boxes, get the nightly propaganda and then recharge themselves in order to insert themselves back into the economic machine the next day.

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>>3310988
>It seems to me that the projects in your example merely used modernism as an excuse to pack as many poor people into as little space as possible, against the spirit of Corbusier's original ideals.
What do you mean, its the perfect example of typical Corbusier masterplan, pic related his plan for Paris

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>>3311027
ugh...horrible

Tangent, but it's really annoying when movements or styles are named relative to time (modernism, new wave, etc).

Because then you'll inevitably get into issues where subsequent countermovements occur and it becomes a nightmare to name them appropriately (postmodernism, post-postmodernism, metamodernism, etc). It's also annoying that "modernism" is really "modern 100 years ago but not very modern now".

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>>3300340
>>3300340
that view is pretty cool, and postmodernism can be damn impressive. And the idea behind it is a beautiful mix of modernist and classical ideas.

It's an amazing architectural genre if you get it right.

Don't let /pol/ be your thoughtguide.

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>>3301043
>>3301041
>>3301036
>>3301034
>>3301033
>>3301030
>>3301028
>>3301024
>>3301022
>>3301043
>>3301047
>>3301065
>>3301066
all modernist

Postmodernism has the right idea for the future, along with high tech.

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Greatest composer of post WW2, (((György Ligeti)))

>>3311152
You have terrible taste

>>3311176
/Pol/tier answer

>>3311228
>I'm from /pol/ because I hate tacky memetecture

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>>3311152
Bofill is quite good but he never describe himself as post modernist, but rather as "romantic brutalist", his architecture lack the sense of irony and comedy that typical postmodernist like Venturi or Gehry has, infact he's closer to regionalism in term of style

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>>3311273
Also good video on one of his project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIQlWkYijLM

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>>3310972
>Gehry the crumpled paper jew

>>3311114
We contrast modern with contemporary in school although modern still conotates newness outside the field.

I'd say post modernism in architectural theory lost its steam around the turn of the 21st century. (1968~2002) Current theory in architecture deals more with pragmatism, technology, and ecology. I have not seen a name but it's a broad shift toward realism.

>>3300340
The building you posted looks great. Copying old stuff feels just soulless and that's probably why the chinese are doing it

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>>3308469
a lot of post-modern buildings don't follow your shallow defenition at all,

pic related: architect wanted to give everyone in the flats to feel like they where living in a palace, but for the flats to still be affordable.
It's a blend of neoclassical and modernist ideas and it's anything but regressive.

stop smearing your communist propaganda on architectural buildings and just study them for what they are. You are the reason why people think modern art is snobby.

>>3311273
>>3311281
i get what you're saying but most architects wouldn't define themselves as folowing a trend

bofill's style does definitely fit the postmodernist definition.

>>3311281
>>3311273
Amazing video btw, really makes you appreciate his work and views. Kinda became a fan.

>>3310972
>intentionally designed to look like it's being demolished and calling an architect and an entire philosophical movement shit

I was referring to this one specific building. What are you on about?

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>>3311273
that building is modern architecture done right but bofill did create some monstrosities

>>3310656
t. redditor that has never actually studied modern architecture
It's more utopian than that.

i just call this "the supervillain base" style of architecture.

>>3310257
Do you mean his Dada-phase?

>>3310582
>irrelevant to aesthetics

Perhaps we agree then. Some people say it's all subjective and everything is relative. I strongly disagree and you comment applies that you do as well.

So what then *is relevant* to aesthetics in your view?

Sure it's pretty easy to sit back smugly and say you like this or that based on some secret set of criterion which only you are cultured enough to be in possession of.

How about you enlighten us plebs so that we learn something and are better able to appreciate good architecture.

Or would that take all the joy out of it for you?

Maybe you rather just insist that the emperors clothes are glorious and anyone who thinks otherwise is unrefined and unlearned. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I thirst for knowledge and love art and culture deeply; if you can open my eyes to new wonders I'll be in your debt.

>>3311273

For me, that picture, the factory, shows irony and comedy. Not sure how you don't see that.

Or is it simply eclecticism?

>>3311498

The windows are so big. Is that some sort of populist thing or something?

>>3312147
Motherfucker, somebody can have an incredibly strong sense of aesthetics and not revert to relativism, while also not falling for kitchy WE WUZ ROMANS N SHIEET garbage.
>>3312182
No. Moderrnist and postmodernist architecture allowed for the use of walls of glass. It essentially allowed for a building to both be clearly artificed while still working with the environment.
This triggers neolibs like >>3312147 because it means they can't flash their colonialbenis while also not stripping one's Oikos away from them.

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>>3310564
great skill and mastery amount to nothing when in the yoke of saccharine sensibilities, if i don't like pompous cranks of 19th century whose emotional subtlety was that of a sledgehammer, then there is like, 90% of art outside of that left to appreciate

I think the deal with most modern buildings is that they are grey bland and boxy, a little bit of green would make them look somewhat healthy.

>>3307410
Huh, I was on the street a few months ago.

>>3300340
thank Nietzsche and that homo Foucault

>>3307814
I think it's interesting. It doesn't appeal to me in an aesthetic way, but in an hypnotizing way.

>>3300340
>Why did humanity go so wrong?
It didn't anon. There's nothing wrong with either movement, you're just witnessing the 90% of Sturgeon's law.
>When will all these disgusting buildings be replaced?
In about a century, when the structures will be decrepit, tastes will have changed, and people need high value areas renewed. Only the best few will survive, just as it happened for every other era.

>>3312182
Yes, that's the modernist influence, allow a lot of light in the Building, make the flats look big

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>aspies like modernist, brutalist, ugly architecture in general because they want to be "different"

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If you would rather have >>3301041 or >>3308362 or any other piece of shit in this thread than pic related

Please

Just please, slit your own wrists, your life is not worth living

>>3313495
That is the most boring and depressing Building ever, why did you choose that?

>>3313547
>boring and depressing

>>3311027, >>3310273, >>3304413, and >>3310091 would like to have a word with you.

>>3300831
>the modernist movements that you would probably agree with. (Futurism for one).

Is fascism a modernist/postmodernist movement?

>>3307439
this looks unironically comfy as fuck
fucking chinks, they even make modernist architecture work, is there anything they can't do?

>>3308362
That's neofuturism not modernism

>>3313597
>kahn's salk institute is boring and depressing
go there for yourself and try saying that

>>3313474
>its ugly because my aesthetic standards are limited to fanciful gr*Ek nonsense

>>3313495
HAHA KILL YOURSELF FOR NOT WANTING TO LIVE IN MY SLAVE QUARTERS HAHA XDDDDDDDD MUH GREEEEEEEEEEEKS

>>3313599
It's post-modern.

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>>3313914
I guess that makes me a post-modernist

>>3302996
lmao that has been the point of all government buildings built in the past 5000 years, now adopted by commercial architecture. The Greeks and Romans buiilt their structures to look extremely sturdy and powerful, to display the power of the state. All those kitschy 19th century buildings you like? Same fucking idea, you are just disconnected with their original context so you view it more like a novelty and a relic of a lost time

>>3300340
don't dislike the main building
what is it?
i dislike the stree bazaar around it
perhaps the plaza is a bit too large and some benches and trees would be a neat addition
also, a green roof

>>3314014
The use of a consumable product being adopted as a symbol of supremacy, not because of its color, qualities, etc., but because it is inaccessible to another, is very post-modern.

>>3310598
not what he said, the dude is using arguments as if they apply to all art, not just the art he likes

>>3311530
The OP you fucking moron, y'know? the point of the thread? eh?

>>3300738
I still find that image very ugly. But I am a proponent of more internal space for buildings. I hate the NYC style commie blocks with stuffed sidewalks of people. Of course the reality is the need for space, but more courtyards and pedestrian walkways to give the city more life instead of the gommie thoroughfares for cars and people.

>>3300732
ITS AN UZBEK FINGERPAINTING BOARD FAGGOT

>>3312222
>>3312262

So you like what you like because you have a "strong sense of aesthetics" which rejects the "saccharine sensibilities" of those rare cranks (only 10%) who want don't want their classical ornamentations fiddled with ("colonialbenis" and "oikos" -- not sure about "neolib").

Is that a fair reading?

Since I'm trying to cultivate my own sensibilities, and since I presume you feel strongly about the importance of such matters, perhaps you can tell me more about what specifically makes the good ones good and the bad ones bad?

I'm struggling to see the difference between your, if not subjective then at least poorly defined tastes and relativism. If there actually are characteristics or even faintly discernible qualities that distinguish good modern and postmodern architecture from run of the mill crap, you do the greats a disservice by remaining mute. It's almost a backhanded compliment.

I do understand if you don't understand what it is that you like, or can't communicate it clearly, but if that's the case then you really shouldn't be spouting off about other people's preferences, especially when the basis for those preferences are at the very least being clearly stated.

>>3300732
>trying to disprove somebody using an argument that contradicts your own post

Never change /his/