Why does /his/ never talk about the Sengoku Jidai? Its a fascinating

Nip history, and Asian history in general for that matter, hardly ever get discussed on this board. And I don't understand why, either.

>>3280692
>>3280677
people dont know about it obviously. same goes for any other topic "no one talks about"

Uesugi Kenshin best daimyo

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>>3280702
>Literally stabbed in the ass by a ninja dwarf hiding in your toilet

>>3280712
>literally beat the shit out of Oda nobunaga's best generals

Because the Taishou period is the obvious GOAT period of Japanese history to discuss, followed by the Heian period.

>>3280727
>Heian period
Nothing happens the period

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Find me a more badass helmet.

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>>3280758
*blocks ur path*

>>3280758
Bring me my tetsubō!

>>3280759
What the hell is that on his head?

>>3280702
>Uesugi Kenshin
>Not Date Masamune

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>>3280782
A 140cm tall helmet. 55 inches for Amerifriends.

>>3280786
lewd

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>>3280758
*smacks lips profusely*
SO HOL UP HOL UP
*destroys Imagawa*
SO U BE SAYIN
*spreads christianity*
SO HOL UP U BE SAYIN
*burns monasteries*
AYYYOOOO SO U BE SAYIN
*fucks boipussy*
U BE SAYIN
*shoots horsefuckers*
WE WUZ
*dresses in western clothing*
SHOGUNS N SHEEET
*spams Ashigaru stacks*

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>>3280786
>4kg

It's like a silly Touhou hat, but real.

>>3280799
yasuke pls go

>>3280677
Who was the best general? Toyotomi or Tokugawa?

>>3280825
Toyotomi was the better general but Tokugawa was the better statesman.

>>3280677
It's not Hitler.

>>3280825
You mean who was the better general between the two? I'd say Toyotomi

>>3280785
>HERE WE GO

>>3280859
Monkey boi? Why him? (Not the guy you replied to)

>>3280692
People talk about Chinese history all the time. Warring States Japan is just uninteresting.

>>3280881
The two arent that far apart honestly but monkey boi had much humbler beginnings and had to deal with more dangerous shit like assuring the rearguard during Oda's retreat from Asakura territory
Tokugawa has his fair share of genius and daring moves but he also had more fuck ups

>>3280912
I see, that's a valid point. Hideyoshi kinda went delusional during the later years though.

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>>3280758
Headscarf of the warrior monks.

>>3280955
>This triggers the Oda

>>3280962
Talk shit to me one more time I swear I'll burn your fucking temple down and kill everyone that tries to run!

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>>3280805
Ayayayaya

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>>3280978

Was there a bigger bro than Hattori Hanzo?

In Hyouge Mono Toyotomi is basically behind Oda Nobunaga's assassination. Since he is the one that benefited the most from the situation, do you think it's possible he really had a part on this?

>>3281156
I doubt he had any direct hand in it since he as one of Nobunaga's top generals he'd be viewed with the most suspicion from both Nobunaga and the rest of Japan alike. That being said I wouldn't be surprised if he knew of the plot in advance and simply chose not to inform Nobunaga.

>>3280785
Masamune was great as a leader bu Kenshin was practically unrivaled as a military leader. Whooped Nobunaga at Tedorigawa and about the only person who could put the fear of god into him.

>>3280712
>apocryphal stories
Ninja weren't really a thing like that. Also Hanzo Hattori was a samurai, not a ninja.

>>3281288
The two are not mutually exclusive. He is noted to have worked with actual ninjas from Iga and Koga, as well as himself having done special missions like hostage rescues and night time raids.

People just need to realize "ninja" doesn't always mean wearing all black with fucking throwing stars

>>3280677
Cuz Nips and chinks in particular have a propensity to use the linguistic equivalent of fucking poetry to describe their histories, describing battles between people who didn't exist with armies that numbered in the hundreds of mirrions.

The Sengoku Jidai doesn't suffer from inflation of the numbers, but it certainly suffers from the inflation of the individual like most of Japanese culture does, and it's next to impossible to get an honest account that isn't complete revisionism.

>>3280677

Why do some higher class Japanese look so European?

>>3281506
If I recall correctly that painting is not an accurate portrayal of what he actually looked like and it was made by a European which emphasizes the caucasian look.

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hi folks I'm just a friendly pilgrim from afar wanting to spread the mikotoba of dainichi :3

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I know this is going out on a limb here, but maybe we could have a South East Asia general? Now hear me out before you REEE gents.

There's a lot to talk about when it comes to history in Asia, hell there's tons to talk about with just China, or Japan, and a lot of different eras to talk about. Problem is, not a whole lot of people know a lot about them. I know I'd like to know more about history in the region as a whole, and I can probably educate a little on the Meiji Restoration (particularly the Boshin Wars) and the Russian-Japanese war, since I've studied that period a lot. If we made a general, then we could put our collective knowledge together, build up a good starter pastebin for the popular periods, and just generally have a slow, steady stream of discourse.

Of course there would be memes and shitposting, but look at the state of the board as a whole. I'd be willing to put up with some Cao Cao and Nobunaga posting if it meant someone could actually give me a good starting point to study the Boxer Rebellion, or the rise of the Emperor and samurai as a warrior class in Japan, or anything at all about Korea. I'm sure there's some anon here who has esoteric knowledge about what people in Vietnam where doing in 600 BC, why not give him somewhere to talk about it?

If there's any interest I'd be willing to curate (basically just make threads, update pastebins, etc) because I browse all hours because of a strange work schedule.

Think about it /his/, it could be great. It could be comfy.

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>>3281533
Get crucified, cuck.

>>3281947
Build it and they will come.

>>3281972
Was this movie any good?
>>3281980
You think so? I know /his/ pretty vehemently hates generals, but I think one about SEA would be justified.

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>>3280677
Because the Chinese did warring states earlier and better

>>3281506
japs have thin faces, that's all it is

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>>3281947
If you started a thread with a legit OP, providing sources, suggested reading, and topics of discussion then you could get some posters.

>>3282010
The sources would need to be a collaborative effort, and I'm just gauging reaction and interest. I, for instance, know some very good and fairly easy to read books for beginners about the overthrow of the Tokugawa Shogunate and could even upload a few, but I don't have any sources outside of Mary Berrys Hideyoshi for the Sengoku period, and wouldn't even know where to start with the ROTK.

And what about discussion of Buddhism and Confucian philosophy? Should they be included, or should I shy away from &humanities? Are there anons willing to help out?

>>3281972

It's darkly funny is a way, because the Japanese wouldn't have known about crucifixion unless the Christians told them about it.

"yes yes, very interesting. Tell me more about these 'Romans' and how they executed Christians."

>>3281972

is the film any good

my japanese history professor, who was adopted in japan by protestant family, was pretty excited for it.

Why did Japan become the greatest power in Asia during the 19th/20th century? China was bigger and richer, they should have become the greatest power in Asia instead

>>3283969
Yes it's very good if you like slow films, and definitely a must see if you are interested in Japan. it should have been nominated for the Oscar

>>3282000
>>3283969
It is a good film that takes a lot of strange routes. The movie presents facts that are not commonly known, so I appreciated that much, but it also makes large assumptions and creative decisions. It's a movie though so I let them go

>>3283985
China had been worn down and broken by corruption within and foregin meddling without.

Japan was very aware of this and its leaders were willing to do just about anything to avoid it, So when westerners came they basically bought all the technology they could from them and were pretty much willing to sell out their own culture in order to modernize. The Japanese cultural nationalism of the showa era was a backlash to this.

basically Japan was in a position to learn from China's mistakes and they wanted it more.

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>>3283985
China, despite being larger, was divided by warlords that were busying trying to usurp the old style Emperorship kind of government while also balancing out Western influences.

Japan just said "fuck it" and took Westernization with open arms. They force fed peasants a mix of Western values and classical "you must serve the common good" to the point that the Meiji Restoration forged a modern nation out a feudal one within three generations. There were growing pains of course - Fall of the Samurai, the Great Depression, and eventually military junta - but Japan still grew into the modern power that it is today.

>>3281288
The hattori clan were a bunch of sneaky fucks with close ties to ninja.

>>3283997
>were pretty much willing to sell out their own culture in order to modernize.

there's something about the argument youre making rubs me the wrong way.

industrialization =/= westernization.

the qing chinese mid-late 19th century self-strengthening movement aimed to subordinate western technology to help the qing dynasty to defend against aggressive western powers that were brining unwanted cultural/intellectual change,

>>3281481

But that's what makes it fun, their actual historical storytelling sounds like irl Dynasty Warriors.

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>>3281972
You shouldn't have done that.

>>3282101

"A History of Japan" By George Sansom (British diplomat to Japan way back, studied their history extensively). I got it from Tokyo but it comes in three volumes(all English) the Second volume covers 1334-1615 fairly deeply, with the Rise of Ashikaga (Takauji), The fight for power between the southern and northern courts, Ashikaga supremacy,The Onin wars, the rise of Oda Nubunaga, The Sengoku Daimyo's, Hideyoshi Toyotomi's Rise to power & political aims, Hideyohi's invasion of Korea, his last years, the rise of Tokugawa Ieyasu, and the early years of the Tokugawa Government.

The first volume won't be of much use for the Sengoku period, though the third book does cover the 1615-1867.

>>3283985

China was trying its damndest to not modernize while Japan went into high gear with it with the start of the Meiji Restoration.

>>3284024

Not him but the Japanese DID kinda equate industrialization with westernization for a period. They were so in love with western culture for a short time that some Japanese were actually considering having europeans impregnate their women so that the superior western seed could create a more powerful next generation (since eugenics was all the rage back then). Needless to say this proposal didn't go over well.

>>3282010
>>3282101
>>3280677
this was posted in other threads. its a bibliography made by a cambridge professor listing all the major english language works on japan in all eras
http://intranet.ames.cam.ac.uk/jbib/

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Nobunaga is pretty awesome, I need to find a good book on him to read.

>>3284024
In the minds of many Japanese at the time anything western was superior.

Unlike the qing self strengthening movement they realized that western technology would not be enough without also adopting the sciences, business and academic methods that created it and drove it.

An unfortunate consequence of this is that many at the top started to see Japanese things as inferior. The martial arts nearly died out for example because they were seen as backwards and outdated.

There was a German doctor in Tokyo who noted youth of the upper class did nothing but isolate themselves reading western books and suggested martial arts as exercise. His efforts were poo poo'd by the Japanese themselves untill he took the extraordinary step of joining a kenjutsu dojo and making connections with jujutsu practitioners, including a young Kano. One reason judo became big was that Kano styled it as a "scientific" and "gentlemanly" jujutsu.

>>3281288
large numbers of the samurai from Iga were ninja and/or bandits. The line between Samurai and peasant was really fucking blurry during the Sengoku Jidai, and only began to properly developed under Toyotomi and the Tokugawa Shogunate.

>>3283985
I'd say it's a combination of a couple of factors. First, Japan had a really powerful unifying factor in the Emperor, who was far more revered than his Chinese counterpart (mainly because the Shogunate copped all the crap when shit went wrong). Second, that Japanese did a far better job of removing potentially resistive or counter-revolutionary elements during the Boshin War and Satsuma rebellion. Third, Japan was really rich per capita, and had a fairly well developed middle class that could finance their development. Forth, Japan was geographically much smaller than China, which made it easier for the new government and bureaucracy to administer the country, especially with the introduction of steamships, railroads and telegrams. And finally, as far as the westerns were concerned, Japan wasn't anywhere near as desirable as China, so they never tried to carve out spheres of influence and "leased' territory. This gave Japan the time and security to modernize, which China never got.

Who was the actual successor to the Han dynasty?

>>3280852
>Gets BTFO at Komaki-Nagakute
>Afraid shitless of Tanuki
funny monkeyposter

>>3284355
The thing about "ninja" is that its mostly a modern catch all turn for any spy, assassin, special forces, ect.

In the period there were multiple terms with varying meanings.

Iga was a place full of low ranking samurai and small land owners rather than a major daimyo, It was also very mountainous so the warriors there used very different tactics from the large armies of ashigaru under people like Nobunaga

>>3280677
>Why does /his/ never talk about the Sengoku Jidai?
There's a thread on it at least once a week. Out of all the topics about Japan, it's the most discussed behind WW2.

I think a lot of the problem is just that there hasn't been a serious study on the Sengoku Jidai in the west. The only books are bullshit "LEGENDS OF DA SAMOORYE" stuff or Turnbull who's a "MUH BUSHIDO BADASSES" enthusiast. A serious, legit work that people could reference would probably help hings considerably.

>>3284366
>who was far more revered than his Chinese counterpart (mainly because the Shogunate copped all the crap when shit went wrong).
And more importantly, due to a lack of a Mandate of Heaven, the Emperor of Japan has been one single continuous family line for 2000 years.

So is it true that the Satsuma Rebellion was basically fought over the samurai wanting to keep their right to abuse and kill peasants whenever they felt like it?

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>>3285922
It's a tricky situation, that's obviously much more complex than that. Saigo Takamori, who lead the Satsuma rebellion, was a nigh-legendary figure of the Boshin war, and had actually been the Imperial Army's first field marshal. He retired to Satsuma, opened up a few schools that basically became paramilitary organizations, and started to become disgruntled and angry about what was happening in Kyoto.

He started to believe his own hype basically, and decided to march his army to the capital to see why the Emperor's cabinet was disrespecting the warrior and leader class the way they were. He actually thought that once he took the field, a bunch of smaller rebellions would pop up all over Japan spontaneously, and the Meiji administration would crumble. The crazy thing is that if he had actually sent agents out and made plans, this could have happened, or so we believe. It's hard to overstate what a big deal he was at the time, but he didn't plan his rebellion properly. A few other rebellions actually did crop up, but they were too small to affect anything.

The big misconception is that the Satsuma forces hated Western technology and only used swords and bows out of some sense of samurai ethos. The truth is after the first 2 major engagements they literally ran out of bullets and arms and had to resort to guerilla attacks with old style weaponry that their great grandparents probably used.

>>3285662
Well there are academic histories...

>>3286694
isn't true that Shinsengumi only used swords?

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>>3286834
Thats an interesting question. I'm fairly certain that they were generally only armed with swords while on duty but, like most samurai, they loved guns and used them. I know that their vice commander Hijikata Toshiro, aside from being the handsomest and most dapper motherfucker during the Restoration, owned a 6 shooter (Colt Army? Navy possibly?) and wore it on his hip.

Let me do some reading and I'll get back to you on that.

If youre interested in the period, here's a Russian website that has a lot of excellent books for download, you know, what with their very lax copyright laws and all.

http://www.bakumatsu.ru/library/en-lib.html

I'd recommend starting with "The Last Samurai: Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori," and "Sakomoto Ryoma and the Meiji Restoration," as good starting points into the period. Ryoma's book is a little boring through the first bit, but stick with it, he's a very interesting figure.

But like I said I'll see what exactly I can dig up about the Shinsengumi.

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90% of what I know about the Sengoku Jidai is from niptoons. Are there any good texts (academic or otherwise) that could give an in-depth review of the period?

>>3286918
I've seen Mary Elizabeth Berry's "Hideyoshi" referred to as an excellent starting point for the period. I've read another of her books, which I can't recall for the life of me, and she's an excellent author, her books are fantastic to read.

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>>3286834
EArly on they used swords, spears and armor. They eventually armed themselves with modern firearms though I do not believe they used them as well as western influenced militia.

>>3286944
Awesome no wonder they are such a legend. thanks for the site is very nice.

>>3280677
best warband mod Sengoku Jidai.

>>3286989
Gekokoju? Have you seen the new Rising Sun mod?

>>3280712
Jaromír, Duke of Bohemia was assassinated the same way.

In Japan there is a lot of study of the Sengoku ara, with shows and documentaries. Getting translated materials can be tough tho

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>>3286914
Who's the most based Meiji figure? I'm reading Making of Modern Japan and am now entering Imperial period with the first elections and the last days of the state builders and stuff and doing more reading I've really grown to respect guys like Ito Hirobumi and Fukuzawa Yukichi. I'm really wanting to read Fukuzawa's autobiography and other writings.

Actually is there a similar resource that covers the post-Bakumatsu/early Imperial era? The closest book I can find is Emperor of Japan - Meiji and His World.

>>3285662
clearly thats a gross exaggeration, just see the amount of books in.
>>3284068
the problem is you're taking what little works on the period you've been exposed to and making a hasty generalization out of it

So did anything important happen during Japan's isolationism? Most history stories treat Sakoku like it was a blank period where it was pure stagnation.

>>3280677
That fucking picture of Nobunaga has always confused me

A picture of a painting that no longer suvives so you assume its an actual photo and your time references get messed up cuz nobunaga isn't from when cameras were a thing

>>3287538

Not to mention as some have said, he probably didn't look quite like that.

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>>3287235
You bring up excellent questions that I don't really have an answer to. Aside from basedness, which was this absolute madman.

>>3287529
Nothing super important as far as the rest of the world goes, but the idea Japan spent 250 years frozen in time is largely a myth.

There was a huge population explosion, and huge market revolution, and a slow cultural shift. The Feudal system set up by Hideoshi slowly broke down as samurai went broke and merchants could buy higher status. While most of the famous swordsman of the early Edo era were decedents of the highest of samurai nobility, most of the famous swordsmen of the late Edo were from non-samurai lineages, and only lifted to the rank because of their skills

>>3287585
It's kind of funny reading Jansen's book because I really wanted to read about the Edo Period and didn't care as much for the Meiji yet I found the Edo Period kind of dull while the building of the Meiji state, the rapid and carefully done modernization and emergence on the world stage is probably one of the single most fascinating things I've ever read. It's given me a great amount of respect for the Meiji state builders.

>>3280712
Meme story to justify the turbo-cancer he got from drinking so much.

>>3281947
South east asia is Thailand, Indonesia, etc. Japan, Korea and China are East Asia.

>>3282000
Don't make a fucking general, just make an east asia thread.

>>3286694
Saigo was a big dude. He barely looks japanese.

>>3286918
Sengoku Rance

>>3288015
Ah, I see.
>>3288023
I think you're right honestly. While it would be pretty neat to have a persistent OP with a collection of sources, I don't think /his/ is the place for generals. On a better note, I've noticed threads about Asia generally escape the normal /pol/ posting, so that's a good sign.
>>3288046
>UUUU
6' tall and 260lbs in his 40's I believe.
>>3287986
The political jockeying is what really did it for me, personally. I mean there were some truly diabolical motherfuckers working behind the curtain, and some super slick political operators. Hell, the whole reason that the Boshin War got violent in the first place is because the Imperial supporters couldn't outfox ol' dishonest Abe.
>the head of the Shimazu clan literally exiled, ordered ritual suicide, and NINJA'd over 50 people his son had carefully placed in the administration, ruining about 10 years of preparation in less than a year when he realized his son was going to force him to retire.
Black magic Evil motherfuckers.

>>3280677

because the Heian period is more interesting

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Why were Merchants and Craftsmen shit on so much in feudal japan?

>>3288218
Interestingly enough, they were so low on the totem pole that they didn't get taxed regularly, so when during the late Edo Period you see an emerging group of very wealthy rice traders that started what became the middle class. To answer your question
>Lords need samurai
>samurai are dedicated to their lords so they're mad honorable
>samurai need to eat
>farmers grow food, so are honorable in their own way, but not as much as samurai
>merchants sell other people's shit, haha what lazy plebs
I can't elaborate on why Craftsmen are ranked so low though.

>>3288218
They were seen as making their living dishonestly since they lived off of the income that others provided to them for their products rather than farmers who lived off of what they produced. Furthermore a lot of craftsmen had regular contact with substances used in their crafts which were seen as spiritually impure to deal with.

>>3280677
Because it's just small civil war happened in backward remote islands which is highly romanticized and exaggerated by Jap ACG culture and weebs.

>>3284051
>China was trying its damndest to not modernize
Correction, China WAS trying its damndest TO modernize.
Japan could simply learn from the opium wars and actually get support from western powers while China was divides between differnt Imperial powers intrest in the region.
To not forget the wars and constant rebellions draines the treasury that could've been used for westernization

>>3288324
Romanization of Japan goes back way further than ACG culture. Hell it goes back further than the rise of Japanese cinema in the 50s. Westeners have been fascinated by Japan since the 19 century

>>3288218
Confucianism
Peasant are valued because they actually produce the food.
Craftmen second because they dont produce life nessesities but are important non the less.
Merchants produce nothing of value and leech of others hard work

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>>3287235
They're pretty cool guys, albeit with some questionable beliefs and actions. If you want someone who is actually pretty respectable even from a modern perspective you should read about Okakura Kakuzo.

His most famous work is called The Book of Tea, which was written in English, and basically tries to inform Western educated audiences about the importance of Japanese culture. He was also part of a loose group of international humanitarian intellectuals.

>>3288567
>Okakura Kakuzo
https://archive.org/details/awakeningofjapan00okakiala

>>3288567
Well a lot of them were militant nationalists so it's western liberalism. Taisuke Itagaki seems like he kept the more humanitarian, less militaristic aspects of liberalism as well.

>>3289708
That should say western liberalism filtered through Japanese nationalism (hence the slogan "Japanese spirit, western technique"). And considering how the opening of the country went and the Brits blowing out Kagoshima, plus the Chinese example, their mindset of "we're not going to let this happen to us" is understandable.

>>3288533
>>3288218

What's interesting is Confucius himself didn't think highly of soldiers, he put them at the same level as prostitutes.

>>3280883
But the way Hitler scratched his balls one day is more interesting huh, judging from the threads.

>>3280785
>not Takeda Shingen

>>3289883
Confucius is just a big crybaby that can't get over a peasant with just two years training with a crossbow can kill any noble warrior who trained for 20 years any time of day.

Really, only reason China follows him is because he made good rules of how to conduct moral behavior, his other ideas are complete noble autism and I am glad the legalist's won over those.

>>3290759
I dont know that he differentiated between soldiers and professional warriors. If anything I imagine he would have even less respect for someone who dedicated his life to killing rather than people just defending what they have or forced into war due to events beyond their control.

If you guys are curious, most of the famous clans from the Sengoku era are still around in some form. The Shimazu run a corporation that makes precision and medical instruments. The late vidya composer Ryu Umemoto was the only known modern direct descendant of Takeda Shingen. Nobunari Oda is a champion figure skater. The Tokugawa these days are a shipping company. Uesugi's descendant is an astronaut, though technically the person he's descended from was adopted from the Hojo clan. Date Yasumune is the 34th and current head of the Date clan. Musician Kikkawa Kouji is descended from Motonari's son. Professional baseball player Hiroki Sanada is descended from Sanada Yukimura.

>>3291016
Also I should note that the Date clan seal is copyrighted and you need to pay them whenever you use it. They are a clan that made their way in the world through bookkeeping after all.

>>3291016
>he late vidya composer Ryu Umemoto was the only known modern direct descendant of Takeda Shingen

Isnt Takeda Sokaku's family still around somewhere?

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>>3286918
I'm reading Shogun, which is about an English pirate coming ashore during the tail of the era, and it's really different than every other depiction I've seen of Japan
Sure, it's historical fiction written by a white man about a Protestant fucking up Jesuits in the Far East, but it's interesting to get an "outsider" perspective on medieval Japan.
Also, it's 1200 pages of paperback, so it's lasted me most of these past 2 months

>>3284060
It's kinda of happening

T. Former service member stationed in Japan

>>3291121
okinawans weren't part of japan historically

>>3291115

Wait is it the story of William Adams, the first Englishman to set foot upon the island?

>>3291058
I think so, but I don't think he's related to Shingen.

>>3289883
Confucianism is basically an ideology of "obey the ruler and obey tradition". It's a pretty shitty ideology.

>>3291016
>The late vidya composer Ryu Umemoto was the only known modern direct descendant of Takeda Shingen.
He's the guy who did the music for YU-NO right? I don't know what's funnier, Nobunaga's descendant being an effete figure skater or Shingen's being a guy who produced music for eroge. I mean it's good music and all but still.

>>3291254
Loosely, but yes.
The author uses alternative names for everyone, and, only having a Wikipedia summary of Adams' life, has a bit more intrigue and politicking involved, mainly focused on the tensions within the Japanese court and the build-up towards Sekigahara. It seems like some locations and people are different, as they land in Izu in the book, but Kyushu IRL

>>3291267
He certainly has the same root family

>>3291293
You might be3 conflating neo-confusianism with the original ideology.

While Confucianism stressed hierarchy and social harmony, it also promoted meritocracy and moral limits on rulers which at the time where quite radical

>>3291135
>What are the other bases on mainland japan

There a lot of bases in Japan firendo

>>3288324
>small civil war

WTF?
Hideyoshi had armies with numbers that not even the Spanish could raise .

>>3291987

Not to mention it wasn't one side against the other except for by the end with Sekigahara, it was like a 14 clan clusterfuck.

>>3284060
That actually came up somewhere in Making of Modern Japan. One Japanese diplomat talked about it with a British diplomat and the Brit was like "yeah that'd be a bad idea for you guys" more or less.

It's kind of interesting read stuff about how the westerners viewed and treated Meiji Japan. There was a lot of interest in seeing how it would develop and there were a lot of (likely partially patronizing) attempts at telling them they weren't ready for the world stage, otherwise the ravenous western powers would pounce on them so they need to take things slow and steady.

>>3292086
Plus you know, it's scientifically unsound (not that they knew that). Even if you possess the same dna as another society, if you don't possess its values then you won't turn out the same.

>>3291987
There's also the fact that modern historians believe that Nobunaga at Nagashino is the first example of a general using firearms in continuous volley, the European philosophy during the period being to fire everything at once. Pretty fucking revolutionary.

>>3292403
So basically one line reloads while the one behind them fires?

>>3292409
You have 4 lines.

First line fires then moves to the back and cleans the guns then reloads.
Second line fires and moves to the back
Third line fires and moves to the back
Fourth line fires and moves to the back

By now the first line is read to shoot again and the cycle keeps going.

>>3289922
This

Never felt luckier than when I recorded a movie on a whim and realised it was all about this badass. Kagemusha is a must watch

>>3292667
It's on Netflix right now btw

>>3287235

Could the argument be made that someone like Ito Hirobumi getting assassinated made things much worse for Korea than if he hadn't? I recall that he was replaced by rather more brutal, less forward thinking types.

>>3293040
it definitely was. taiwan had a governor general who ruled the island for decades iirc in the mold of a liberal humanitarian imperialist who developed taiwan (despite some abuses of course). Had the japanese not gotten into war with America and winded down the Chinese war they could have kept taiwan. Korea as well but the koreans were always resentful for the more brutal colonial regime they were put under.

>>3281481
Did you read romance of the three kingdoms and thought it was a legit historical document?

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>>3288218
Don't believe the anti-merchant propaganda. The REAL reason merchants were pushed down was a calculated move to limit their political power. Their social marginalization seemed to put a cap on their power to threaten Tokugawa's shoddy claims to be the head of government.

This was coupled with LOTS of oppressive restrictions on every caste like limiting free movement between provinces and using ninjas (mostly peasants) and the Buddhist church as a secret police.

Because /his/'s knowledge of sengoku is from wikipedia and playing shogun 2.

>>3291016
>Shimazu run a corporation that makes precision and medical instruments
Shimazu company founder is not blood related to the clan.

>>3280677
Honestly it gets a disproportionate amount of attention based on its impact on the world due to Japanese media influence.

>>3294057
>entire thread is full of sources, discussion, and well-informed conversation
>lol only vidya and wiki knowledge lol every1 here is so dumb
Stop projecting. People like you are what's killing this board, you troglodyte.

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>started as peasant and sandal-bearer for nobunaga
>rose through the ranks to become successful general
>rose to avenge nobu
>started campaign to unify japan
>successfully did it and ended the warring states period
Toyotomi was a god
>

>>3295147
>invade japan
>fails
lol

>>3295164
korea*

>>3295147
>so afraid of Tanuki after being BTFO by him he isolates him and keeps him away from Korea

anyone got an recommended reading?

>>3295147

Yeah but then he decided attacking Korea was a good idea. Silly monkey-face.