Is it possible for a leader to be democratically elected by a

>>3270157

The athenians in their democracy had sortition instead of elections. What that meant is that citizens could get selected by lottery to serve on a council for a short amount of time, instead of elections. And in addition to sortition, the citizenry had the vote on anything the councils/leaders proposed. So the athenian democracy was a combination lottery and direct democracy.

The reason for why there were no elections, was that the rich and powerful would always dominate elections and thus elected democracies are not democracies at all, but are rather aristocracies. American founding fathers BTFO because its obvious now the greeks were right.

>>3270157
Wait, are you implying that it is possible for a leader to be democratically elected by votes?
I thought that was just a fairy tail because elected officials are always just talking heads while the real rulers continue to rule regardless of the actor in the president chair

>>3270683
Are you talking about ((Them))?

>>3270741
Not neccessarily
Also the double parenthesis is a shitty meme

>>3270157

If you elect a senate, and the Senate appoints the leader, that's indirect democracy where the leader is chosen by the politicians.

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>>3270157
From a romantic viewpoint, one could say Napoleon was "elected" by the people of France in this very manner - the manner of Reinhard von Lohengramm.

Enlightened autocrats are implicitly elected by the people by not being overthrown or hated. In a way, Reinhard was "elected".

If you throw such romantic silliness outside the window, then the answer remains no. "The right to oppress the people belongs to the people." Voting is the clearest confirmation of this, the coronation of a democratic sovereign.

Maybe in smaller scales like a visible majority of a town's population forcefully replacing a governing official with someone of their own choosing.

>>3270626
Damn. That would never happen today.

>>3271150
It wouldn't work well anyway because while Athens had something like 10,000 people top the US has 300 million citizens.

>>3270157
>a means other than votes
Facebook likes.

>>3270626
I mean you try having a lottery system expand out effectively into a nation the size of the U.S. Furthermore, the founding fathers had 0 intention of letting people other than themselves and people like themselves govern. The state legislature of Virginia was almost entirely composed of Tidewater plantation owners. The 1 percent of the 1 percent.

Poland-Lithuanian common-wealth and HRE did that

>>3271156
>300 million citizens and multiculturalism
Fixed

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>>3271461
I'm sorry, something about your sentence came off a bit... off. Could you please repeat it?

>>3271164
Obligatory Bernie can still run goys!

>>3271461
the commonwealth elected its leaders, they just ruled until death

because of Polish law any son of a noble was considered patrician so had certain privileges such as the right to vote. Eventually they had well over a million electors, by far the largest voting body of any pre-industrial state.

>>3271461
They did the opposite. There were elections but not democracy.

>>3270157
Acclamation.

>>3271156
>>3271473
Perfect time to partition the Union.

>>3270904
>implicit election because of lack of insurrection
phew

>>3271150
If it did then everything would be named similar to the cancerous "Boaty Mcboatface"

>>3271196
>I mean you try having a lottery system expand out effectively into a nation the size of the U.S.
If the Pony Express could get a message across America in only ten days, then it wouldn't have been impossible for some backwoods farmer to be brought to Washington for their inauguration within two weeks.

>>3270626
But all the greeks that voted were relatively wealthy (they had property rights at least) and powerful. Very few people actually had a say. And with less checks on power, people could just censor annoying people by having them exiled or poisoned.

>>3272559
>But all the greeks that voted were relatively wealthy (they had property rights at least) and powerful.
Might be true in Sparta or Corinth, but in Athens every male over who had two Athenian parents was expected and even paid to participate in the voting process.
>Very few people actually had a say.
Anyone could give their opinion in the assembly, though of course aristocrats whose parents had paid good money for them to learn how to orate would run their mouths.
>And with less checks on power, people could just censor annoying people by having them exiled or poisoned.
They wanted to be able to kick out people who annoyed everyone with their inflexible demands or where just too power hungry, that's why ostracism was a thing.

>>3272576
Athenian males with two Athenian parents were a tiny minority, was my point.

And people could killed for wrongthink, like Socrates was.

>>3272587
The population of Athens varied considerably during the
classical period, with significant losses due to war (and ac-
companying plague) and emigration. We must distinguish
between the population of adult males, who alone had the
right to participate in government, and the entire population,
including women, children, foreigners, and slaves. There
may have been about 60,000 adult male citizens in the fifth
century, before the Peloponnesian War, and about 30,000 in
the fourth century. The entire citizen population, including
women and children, might have been 160,000 in the fourth
century. To this must be added about 25,000 resident aliens,
and at least 200,000 slaves.

http://homepages.gac.edu/~arosenth/265/Athenian_Democracy.pdf

20% of the male population, from the very poor to the aristocracy actually participating in their government is as inclusive as it gets in the ancient world. Keep in mind most of the population would've been under 25.

>Socrates
Blasphemy was a serious crime anywhere.