Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi

>>3244716
Dictatorship was stable in Portugal and Spain which remained neutral in WWII.

So prolly, but expect growth and diplomacy to be weakened due to autarkical (or at least very protectionistic) pretensions.

All these agricultural campaigns were terrible. Not as bad as soviet agricultural collectivism, but still pretty bad. Why do strongmen-type politicians feel the need to tell farmers how to do their jobs?

File: tumblr_nf257pLA4U1rk8k5ao1_1280.jpg (99KB, 1280x720px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 1280x720px

>>3244716
>Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi Germany?

NO.

>Could fascist Italy have lasted into the fifties if it had avoided war (or at least been on the winning side)?

IF IT HAD NOT JOINED THE WAR, WAR WOULD HAVE COME TO IT ANYWAY, AND WOULD HAVE CEASED TO EXIST EARLIER; IF "THE AXIS" HAD WON THE WAR, ITALY WOULD HAVE CEASED TO BE FASCIST BY THE NINETEEN HUNDRED SIXTIES, HAVING BECOME NATIONAL SOCIALIST.

>Economically speaking, was Fascist Italy more stable than Nazi Germany?
Yes and no. Yes in the sense that it wasn't relying purely upon its war machine to improve the economy, but no in the sense that Fascist Italy's economy wasn't anything to really write home about, especially in the south of the country.
>Could fascist Italy have lasted into the fifties if it had avoided war (or at least been on the winning side)?
Probably, look at how long Fascist Spain lasted. That's not to say it would have been good, but given how long Fascist Spain was allowed to exist there's not much reason to assume that Fascist Italy wouldn't have been similar in a world where they didn't join the Axis.

File: A U R Y O N C.png (94KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 250x250px

>>3244769
>[ITALY] wasn't relying purely upon its war machine to improve the economy...

NEITHER WAS THE THIRD REICH.

>>3244777
You have ten seconds to provide definitive economic evidence that the Third Reich didn't recover from the depression almost entirely by employing the unemployed in military programs or in programs that were directly beneficial to said military.

File: A U R Y O N G.png (245KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 250x250px

>>3244789

YOU HAVE NINE SECONDS TO LEARN REGARDING THE SUBJECT THAT YOU ARE ATTEMPTING TO DISCUSS, AND OF WHICH YOU ARE FLAGRANTLY IGNORANT.

>>3244789
You can have keynesian policies without putting everything into your military.

He could've employed people to build roads, dams, etc. Building stuff is more productive than bombing stuff, generally speaking.

>>3244799
Amazing rebuttal, you have eight seconds to provide any level of evidence or else your argument is void.
>>3244800
Yes you can, and he could've, but even his building projects were done to directly benefit the military in some way.

>>3244804

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU, MORON.

>>3244759
LISTEN TO MY CAPS

>>3244800
>He could've employed people to build roads, dams, etc. Building stuff is more productive than bombing stuff, generally speaking.
"could've" is not the same as actually fucking he "did" or he "would've". theres no evidence anyway for the latter stuff

>>3244759
Learn how to turn off your Caps lock, retard.

>>3244808
>You have ten seconds to provide
>Doesn't provide
Amazing, well done, by deflecting the argument back at me, which the consensus supports, without providing any evidence to support your own argument, surely you have won.
How about the fact that Nazi Germany explicitly conscripted individuals to lower the unemployment rate?
How about the fact that Nazi Germany directed workers to weapons and arms manufactures as a means of revealing unemployment?
How about the fact that Nazi Germany built the Reichsautobahn fucking explicitly as a means to reduce unemployment while providing the German military a means of rapid transit across the country?

File: A U R Y O N H.png (245KB, 250x250px) Image search: [Google]

245KB, 250x250px

>>3244828

YOU CLAIMED THAT THE THIRD REICH BASED ITS ECONOMIC IMPROVEMENT ON MILITARY DEVELOPMENT, WITHOUT PROVIDING PROOF, AND AGAINST WHAT IS KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN IN ACTUALITY; ID EST: RETURNING THE LABOURFORCE INWARD, IMPLEMENTING IT ON NATIONAL PROJECTS, WITH THE PURPOSE OF ACHIEVING AUTARKY THROUGH SELFSUFFICIENCY.

MILITARY DEVELOPMENT DOES NOT MAGICALLY LEAD TO ECONOMIC IMPROVEMENT; NATIONAL IMPROVEMENT OCCURS WHEN WORK IS DIRECTED TOWARD IMPROVING THE NATION, WHICH MAY INCLUDE DEVELOPING THE MILITARY, BUT IT IS NOT REDUCIBLE TO IT.

THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE THE FIRST TO MAKE A CLAIM WHICH CONTRADICTS WHAT IS KNOWN.

>about to read thread
>see capstard
>now about to leave the thread

>>3244868
No I fucking don't, the scholarly consensus is that Hitler was attempting to improve the overall economy of the German nation through the progression of its arms. A claim that I've provided the most basic fucking arguments for which you have, in this post, not even begun to attempt to refute.

Fuck
You
Trip
Faggot

File: WgMA9509864.jpg (206KB, 500x333px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 500x333px

>>3244887
>... the scholarly consensus is that Hitler was attempting to improve the overall economy of the German nation through the progression of its arms.

DO YOU MEAN THE CONSENSUS BETWEEN THESE "SCHOLARS"?

>>3244927
>REALITY IS JEWISH!

>>3244943

?

>>3244961
!

>>3244868
>>3244799
>>3244777
What are these photos? Why are you so desperate for attention? Turn off caps lock and get rid of that trip.

>>3244759
Never post again

File: 1501045045432.jpg (112KB, 634x818px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 634x818px

>>3244777
Perhaps you should read The Wages of Destruction before jabbering on once again about something you clearly know nothing about

>>3244759
>>3244777
>>3244799
>>3244808
>>3244868
>>3244927
>>3244961
What's your endgame?

>>3244927
Le Jews :(

>>3244992
>>3244977
>>3244973

ALWAYS, WHEN YOU ZIONIST IMBECILES GET DEFEATED IN A DISCUSSION, YOU RESORT TO YOUR LAST TACTIC OF PETTY INSULTS TO CREATE THE ILLUSION THAT ONE IS THE ALIEN HERE, IN AN ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT ONE IN THE SPECTATORS' PERSPECTIVE.

YOU ARE PATHETIC.

File: 1498853154540.jpg (99KB, 640x1030px) Image search: [Google]

99KB, 640x1030px

EVIDENCE IS A JEWISH INVENTION TO ENABLE THEM TO ALWAYS BE RIGHT
"EVIDENCE" DOESN'T MEAN SHIT IN THE REAL WORLD

File: 1488661898973.jpg (204KB, 736x974px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 736x974px

>>3245012
This is what you consider an argument
>>3244927

>>3245023

THIS IS WHAT YOU CONSIDER AN ARGUMENT:

>... the scholarly consensus is...

>>3245031
THIS IS PERFECTLY FINE ARGUMENT

IF YOU WANT TO CHALLENGE ACADEMIC CONSENSUS YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOUR CLAIM. WORD OF AUTIST HAS 0 WORTH ON ITSELF.

>>3245031
>He's actually defending a regime that needed to resort to peacetime rationing.

http://www.oldmagazinearticles.com/food-rationing_in_Pre-World_War_Two_Germany

>>3245012
?!

>>3245046

IF ACADEMIC CONSENSUS IS THE ULTIMATE STANDARD FOR KNOWLEDGE, WHY THINK AT ALL WHEN "SCHOLARS" CAN TELL US WHAT TO BELIEVE?

>>3245031
WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU TO WRITE YOUR SENTENCES IN ALL CAPS LIKE THIS YOU CLOSET ZIONIST

>>3245046
THE SCHOLARS ARE LYING

>>3245054
BECAUSE IT IS THE BEST WE HAVE AT HAND.

SHALL WE INSTEAD TAKE WORDS OF RANDOM INTERNET AUTIST AS THE ULTIMATE STANDARD FOR KNOWLEDGE?

File: you_again.jpg (41KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 500x375px

Great, another treat about fascism ruined for hitler's fanboys.

No, it was a fucking house of cards. A stiff breeze would've killed its economy.

>>3244822
>>3244813
>replying to a tripfag
>giving a tripfag attention

Is fascism is conflated with ethnic nationalism due to Nazism or does is actually involve ethnic nationalism and hatred of foreigners?

>>3245078
It's literally one tripfag who comes into every thread regarding Nazism or Fascism and shits it up with his all caps garbage

>>3245075

THE FACT THAT THE OPINIONS OF FESTERING OLD ZIONISTS ARE "THE BEST THAT YOU HAVE" DOES NOT ENTAIL THAT IT IS THE TRUTH, NOR THAT ACTUALLY CONSCIOUS PERSONS SHOULD BELIEVE THEM.

>>3244716
Italy's economic situation was more stable than Nazi Germany's, but because of vastly different approaches to economic policies.

Italy capitalized on corporatism, having private companies industrialize the nation under state direction, so much of this state planning went towards the arms industries, especially naval shipyards to create an Italian fleet that could go toe-to-toe with the British Navy. They also diversified into the automotive and tech industries such as Ferrari (in the later years) and the Marconi Company, as well as capitalizing on social welfare, which was commended as one of the most progressive welfare systems in europe. This allowed Italy to recover relatively quickly from the Great Depression, where the economy made a recovery by 1934-35.

Nazi Germany's on the other hand was immensely unstable, but allowed for extremely quick growth at the cost of immense debt. Germany took out numerous loans from the Central Bank in order to fund rearmament and public projects such as the Autobahn and the 1936 Olympic stadiums, but Germany had no way to ever pay back these loans on their own, so it was planned from the start to conquer vast areas of Europe and use the spoils of war to plug back into the German economy, staving off the debt the funded the economic miracle.

tl;dr: the Italians thought more long-term and worked within their economic capacity for 20 years, Germany's economic however required military conquest in order to feed itself.

as for a good source on economics during Mussolini's reign, I recommend this:

https://books.google.com/books?id=b8P_AwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Italian+Fascism+and+Developmental+Dictatorship&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzqPfc_9fVAhWINSYKHSunCuwQ6AEIKDAA#v=onepage&q=Italian%20Fascism%20and%20Developmental%20Dictatorship&f=false

File: images (2).jpg (7KB, 275x183px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 275x183px

>>3245069
THEY ARE HURTING YOUR FEELINGS
INSTEAD OF FACING FACTS YOU CALL THEM LIES
YOU RETREET INTO YOUR INNER PARADISE
BUT COMING OUT TO THE LIGHT WILL BE YOUR DEMISE

YOU MAY TREAT REALITY LIKE WHORE
BUT OVER THE TIME YOUR FACE IS BECOMING AN EYESORE

File: 1493807328634.jpg (612KB, 800x1263px) Image search: [Google]

612KB, 800x1263px

>>3245092
Is your caps lock key broken? Do you do it for attention? Why do you think accusing scholars of being Zionists is a valid argument? Why do you trust the Ministry of Public Enlightenment more than renowned scholars from all over the world?

>>3245086
Fascism require nationalism of whatever kind: civic, ethnic, religious, and so on.

>>3245124

https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/3172227/#3172231

It's even worse. He's trying to autistically revive the sort of writing done in the Roman Empire by typing all in caps.

>>3245142
Jesus fucking Christ, this guy is worse than I thought.

>>3245136
Also, fascism is about unity with the state and the nation, so whatever thing is against to national unity is persecuted by fascism.

>>3244716
Economically speaking, Nazi Germany was already at the absolute top of stability. They wanted to not be dependent of importations to keep things running during the war and they had an entire part of the economy dedicated to making substitution product.

>>3245156
>Economically speaking, Nazi Germany was already at the absolute top of stability.
They had denbts that would put Greeks to shame. Stability and autarky are different things.

>They wanted to not be dependent of importations to keep things running during the war and they had an entire part of the economy dedicated to making substitution product.
They made solid research into the area, but it wasn't enough to alievate shortage of rare materials, fats and oil.

>>3245092
>>3245069
>>3245054
>>3245031
>>3244927
>>3244759
what

>>3245184
In non-autist speak

>I don't need to provide evidence, because I can call anyone who disagrees with me a Jew. Jews are bad.

>>3245078
>a Nazi ruins discussion of fascism

History repeats yet again.

>>3245086
It can be any kind of nationalism, but Hitler is responsible for people thinking "fascism=kill minorities".

>>3244996
Every time someone brings up Nazi Germany's economy that is the only book that is ever mentioned. I'm starting to believe that it might just be the only book with that opinion.

>>3245941
No, it's just the most extensively detailed and direct, and it's a watershed work in historical research. You can go read Ian Kershaw's two volume biography on Hitler, for example, if you want to read a different book that talks about this in much, much less detail.

>>3246002
Germany's military history office produced a couple of volumes on the subject with a level of detail that rivals Tooze's.
http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=BB75147BB35F0B712507D28ADD2F9168
http://libgen.io/book/index.php?md5=09B6B653CB1B50A4C3C8D8AA24580A82
The volume for the wartime economy and manpower resources from 1942-1945 isn't available on libgen unfortunately.

File: hope lost.png (185KB, 500x644px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 500x644px

>>3245124
>germany loses land to poland
>poles still move to germany en masse