>be a great ruler/conqueror >your heirs are shit Is this

>>3243113
Nah.

So long as you build a working state. As opposed to the -id Empires the likes of Steppeniggers like to build that collapses after the death of the genius founder because it is heavily reliant on a stronkman.

>>3243113
It's easy, orchestrate your own family's fall to the most capable man you can find to rule your country

>>3243113
His heirs were shit, because he didn't support them. He could have negotiated to have Jaime been released from the kingsguard, thus securing himself an heir. He could have supported his dwarf sons lust for political prowess and intrigoues by sending him to the citadel to study, instead he publicly humiliated them his whole life to the point where the little man just couldn't take it and killed him. He considered his daughter to be a whore in service of his interest, and this is the only thing he did good and the only thing that kept his family in power.

>>3243381
I was talking about history in general.

>>3243113
monarchy was mistake

>>3243131
A state depends on strong centralization, heavy regulated aristocracy, and bureacratic administration. A strong state basically neuters the crown. Tywin fucked up by falling for the absolutist meme. An organization is only strong if it is composed of strong people and can replace them as needed.

>>3243113
Worked okay for the Hapsburgs. They kept it going for 700 years.

>>3243113
not always, most times the heirs are mediocre compared to the great hero/conqueror, but they're not a faliure, sometimes they are a failure and sometimes they are as great

>be a great conqueror and ruler
>your heir is somehow even better than you
Based Julius

>>3243113
According to my Crusader Kings yes.

Yeah, hereditary monarchy is kind of a crapshoot. They aren't all going to Henry V.

>>3243113
You will wed her, bed her and put a child in her

>>3243641
>he doesn't immediately try to marry a woman with at least quick or genius no matter how young or related she is
Step up your game senpai

>>3243113
most of whom we consider great or strong were not exactly considered so at the time

>>3243632
I like how the Roman emperors (at least some) choose an heir who was not always their oldest son.

>>3243692
In fact more often than not the heir wasn't your son, at least biologically

a nation can survive a bad king if good ministers, military leaders, and counsel are put in place before the dumb shit takes power. These people can run the nation while giving the crown the sense of being in charge.

>>3243692
>>3243702

And Romans had endless succession crises and a bunch of shitty rulers anyway.

>>3243747
>Muh deep state

>>3243835
China endured thousands of years because of the Bureaucracy.

>>3243692
yeah but it only worked a little.

julius to augustus to tiberius
then you got caligula to claudius to nero

>>3243879
america endures solely because of that

>>3243113
regression to the mean

>>3243510
Agree, with an extremely talented ruler absolutist governments are probably the best kind to live under. However, you live and die based on the ruler, the highs are much higher but the lows are much lower too.

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>>3243113
>be a great ruler who does his duties
>your heir is a female
>The Iron Bank still prefer you and your Female Heir over your rivals

Is this the greatness that is Stannis Baratheon?

>>3243381
>have Jaime been released from the kingsguard
Jaime would have just said no, lel

>>3243833
Rome also had constant conflict between the Emperor, the Praetorian Guard, and the Military. If the Emperor was subservient to the Praetorian Guard (IE, China or Japan) then it would have been better as pretenders would be squashed quickly; likewise, if the Praetorian Guard were subservient to the Emperor (IE, Medieval Europe) then things would have been fine as the Praetorian Guard wouldn't bump off the Emperor every five fucking minutes.

The military not being subservient to the state was a huge problem and it's emphasized in Nomadic empires (IE, Mongols) which are really a military with a state and the moment the strongman dies it all goes to shit.

>>3245353
Imperial China didn't have a praetorian guard.

>>3245291
yes it is.

>>3243113
this is why you have pick them yourself, like best roman emperors did

>>3243892
and then there the golden century after 95 AD

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>>3243833
that was due to a very weak succession system, combined with the endless intrigues of military generals and the Praetorian Guard

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>>3243113
>>3243879
The Chinese bureaucracy (and others) could just as easily revoke beneficial reforms as they could enact them, undoing the work of decent rulers like the Yongle or Kangxi Emperors. The changes needed to be entrenched and for that they needed to transfer power to their subjects, which most rulers are unwilling to do.

For various reasons this happened in Britain, they cultivated a class of gentry, merchants and shopkeepers with influence in politics and by the time they began to meddle in China the 2 societies couldn't be more different. It must have looked like the greedy Shang class had taken over yet are still willing to follow British laws and pay taxes as though the repleted Victoria could pounce on them at any minute.

British financial and legal institutions were unlike the top-down bureaucracy they were familiar with. While merchants operated autonomously they depended on these systems to do business and so were willing to leave their savings, contracts and records sitting in a bank 10000 miles away. They could undermine the government and do everything under the table, however they usually had no incentive, any infractions against them or their peers resulted in tedious lawsuits, ruined reputations and loss of business, any changes had to be debated at length in parliament. The institutions served them.

>>3245353
The Romans never sorted out the problem of generals becoming more powerful than the Senate/Emperor.

>>3243659
>or related
you won't believe how many times this backfired on me

>>3243113

Intelligence is sadly not entirely hereditary.
Dumb parents can birth geniuses and vicevesa.

>>3245291
Stannis was a mean spirited dumbass. Bringing dark magic to the Red Keep would have alienated the rest of the nobles until he lost all ties.

>>3245507
Marcus Aurelius chose Commodus though.

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>>3243113
>your heirs are shit
Because you raised them to be shit

Nero grew up under Claudius.
Claudius does not teach him shit, rapes and murders women in front of him, and shows him that he can do whatever he wants to whoever he wants.
Then Nero was praised like a god by the Roman people after his fathers death just for replacing Claudius.

It's no wonder he though of himself as a God, because the people literally treated him like one at the start.


Now how over to Japan.

Tokugawa wins the war, becomes shogun for two years, then retires long before his death and puts his son in place. He rules from the side while his son learns the ropes. When he dies his son is an accomplished leader and ready to take over. This repeats for 200 years and would still be the case today if not for foreign invasion.

>>3243113
It's the great tragedy of CK2.

>>3243510
>Tywin fucked up by falling for the absolutist meme
You're thinking of Joffrey, who wanted to kill all his enemies, Tywin told him that a true ruler helps his enemies up after he has defeated them

>>3245362
>/his/ - History & Humanities

>>3245765
>Not playing Zoroastrian

>>3246551
>This repeats for 200 years and would still be the case today if not for foreign invasion.
maybe shouldn't have tried to dream about conquering entire asia in order to emulate those piggu westerners

>>3245540
Sounds like the Pratorian Guard was the one in charge, and the Emperors were just puppets

>>3246959
No, Tywin definitely fucked up by falling for the absolutist meme. He did what was good for his dynasty, except for the whole 'children' bit, who are all incompetent. He didn't act as if he fully realized that one of his three fuckup kids was going to become the family m/p-atriarch once he passed.

To use a good analogy, he was trying to build a ladder, but neglected the steps.

>>3243641
My son is fat

>>3247574
For shame

>>3245680
Hey, the bureaucracy was already in place when people of low birth could begin to be empowered. Early on you probably don't have many intelectuals and you need the few you have to run the state. When litteracy begins to become prevalent, then you can begin to think of entrusting the people outside the palace walls to make important decisions without your admnistrators and managers looking over their shoulder the entire time.

>>3247240
Proofs

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>>3245291
/ourguy/

>>3247240
Tywin essentially wrote Jamie off once he lost his hand and became committed to the kingsguard, and there was no way he was going to allow a lustful dwarf to become head of the household after the embarrassment that was his own father.

Cersei was the only realistic success, though his actions indicated that he knew she was not fit for rulership. Tywin's end game may have been grooming Tommen into a suitable king, but we will never know.

>>3243113
He conquered nothing, his most significant life event was a backstabbing

>>3252370
MY FATHER WON THE REAL WAR
HE KILLED PRINCE RHAEGAR
HE TOOK THE CROWN
WHILE YOU HID UNDER CASTERLY ROCK

>>3252490
I'm glad someone said it.

>>3252493
the king is tired...

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>>3245291
Yes it is, anon.

>>3243692
And then there's Memeus Aurelius...

>>3248959
>Early on you probably don't have many intelectuals and you need the few you have to run the state.

Intellectuals are parasites on any nation. To run any nation you need only men experienced in warfare, and a system of well executed laws.

>>3254157
t. Shang Yang

>>3246517
He originally picked Lucius Verus.

>>3246517
Because he was his biological son, and let it cloud his judgement

>>3243113
>be a great ruler/conqueror
>your heir is an even bigger conqueror to the point he builds an empire so fucking massive it cannot endure his death
Is this the best way to go?

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>>3245291
Would have btfo tywin sooner or later.

>>3243113
>your heirs are shit
He fucked his cousins, he had it coming.

>>3246551

Regardless of Robert Graves memeing, Claudius died much earlier than expected. Claudius was probably planning on making Brittanicus his heir, but Claudius died early and Brittanicus got ganked by Nero pretty fast.

>>3243131
Classic steppenigger empire of Alexander

>>3243381
>He could have negotiated to have Jaime been released from the kingsguard, thus securing himself an heir.
No, he couldn't.

>He could have supported his dwarf sons lust for political prowess and intrigoues by sending him to the citadel to study
That would be retarded. Maesters of the citadel are forced to be neutral in politics.

>>3243641
>Can't win with a retard king
Bitch pls

>>3256927
Show us

>>3247574
Did your son also randomly inherit the fat chin even though neither you nor your wife has it? Even checked the savefile. He's mine through and through.

>>3243113
As the critic Rebecca West wrote, 645 years of the Habsburg dynasty produced "no genius, only two rulers of
ability . . . , countless dullards, and not a few imbeciles and lunatics."