How much would humanity's vision of itself change if we

>>3237262
If we found out for certain that nothing happens after death, the world would likely fall apart. People just wouldn't give a fuck anymore. The more extreme religious people would go apeshit. I doubt they'd buy it. Some would remain skeptical. At first, to stop the world from losing its mind, there would be a lot of research into the supposed DMT explosion that happens in your brain when you die. It'd be a lot easier to calm people down if you told them your brain at least creates a heaven that seems like a long time to you. If that proved useless, the next step for researchers would be life extension and an even bigger endeavor of immortality. You bet your ass all of those religious government officials are going to give more of a fuck about that research when they find its lights out after death.

>>3237262
if something happens after death is it really a death. what if its just a bunch of loops.

>>3237262
Depends on what we "know". I mean we already know nothing happens insofar as there is no experimentally verifiable proof that something does, but i digress .

>Know it's nothing
Global existential dread followed by either good or bad nihilism and a mad dash toward biological immortality with and end game of trying l reverse entropy.
>Something from a particular religion
A lot of new converts.
>Some esoteric shit like the consciousness enters a time-independent state
Life as usual since people will just fit that interpretation into their existing religions.

We already know. You change into something else. The rest is ideas we put onto it which aren't real.

>>3237262
>How much would humanity's vision of itself change if we knew what exactly happens after death?
I think it all depends on what exactly it is that happens.

>>3237262
We already know, you just cease to exist.
We know that with every bit of brain you lose, you also lose the specific function associated with that bit of brain. What do you think will happen once you lose it all? You somehow regain it wholesale?

>>3237625
>euronigs

>>3237625
but what is it like to not exist?

>>3237633
what?
>>3237636
it isn't "like" anything, it just isn't.

>>3237625
> We already know, you just cease to exist.
[citation needed]

>>3237641
Anon, I give an argument in favor of what I said right after the bit you quoted.

>>3237625
Pssht, you'll make the brainlets very sad, they still assume that Skydaddy will magically resurrect them.

>>3237652
That's just uncharitable. Many very smart, very knowledgeable people believe in God and in an afterlife. It's not a matter of being dumb or ignorant.

>>3237658
>everything dies
>oh, I'm so afraid of dying
>let's invent a children's story about afterlife
Yes, it is pretty hard to figure that

>>3237625
Well, in buddhism's point of view, "you" cease to exist but the mental process (which are not yourself) do not. Your mind remains semi conscious trying to identify with the body (that doesn't exists/can't be re animated) then it starts to have visions/hallucinations until it "rebirths" in another body (with brackets because being the self illusory then nothing rebirths actually)

A good question would be if there is some "mental" activity even when the physical brain doesn't exists/works. Some monk once made a comparission between the "ghost" pain/feeling that people who lost a limb feel and what the "mind" feels after dying

>>3237666
Again, anon, there's plenty of examples of extremely brave individuals who were/are christians, psychologizing away someone else's position is almost never the way the go when discussing.

>>3237669
But the ghost sensation only exists in virtue of there being a nervous system. The absence of the limb is irrelevant, because pain is never located in the limb, it's always in the brain.

>>3237670
You know whats the funny thing about afterlife, soul, reincarnation and the like?
There is not the slightest scientific hint to any of it and the only reason those concepts exist is humans are afraid to accept the inevitable. You die, and thats it.

>>3237636
You know how you have a sense of self, perception of your environment, thoughts and feelings, a sense of time, etc?

Imagine all of those gone. Each of those is created by some function of the brain. It won't be like darkness, it won't be boring, it won't feel relaxing or restful, it won't be any experience at all, because the agent that experienced all those things is quite literally dead.

>>3237704
Why can't humans just accept it is over? Nothing magic will happen, there won't be anything left of you, you are just gone.
>inb4, muh like is meaningless, now I must be nihilist

>>3237310

This. There's a reason your brain won't tell you what you secretly already know, death is the end. Some measure of self-delusion is necessary to keep humans functional, this is probably true for all animals to some degree.

>>3237636

What did it feel like before you were conceived? That's what it will feel like when you're gone.

>>3237666

While fear of death is certainly a bit draw for a religion like Kikeanity or Pisslam, there have been religions that didn't offer salvation beyond death, for example Judaism itself in its early stages had no special afterlife, the dead just went to a dismal crypt-like underworld where they sat around miserable and bored forever. Religion appeals to far more than one of our fears, it's an extremely complex phenomenon.

The whole concept of afterlife is just silly at best, something people get upset about if you dispute it because they think it's the persons fault disputing it that heaven does not exist.

What happens to sperm, a fetus, a baby, a child after death? What to the mentally handicapped? What to the senile old?
What's even so great about life after death? The thought of not existing doesn't bother me at all. It's the same as sleeping or the time before you were born.

(plus I don't want my grandma to watch me masturbate)

>>3237835

The concept of life after death is actually very intuitive to humans, even small children have a naturally dualist view of the world, with "things" and "minds" being separate categories. It's easy to extrapolate from sleep, where the mind seems to go to another reality while the body just lies there, and assume that the mind of the dead has gone to that other reality permanently.

>>3237855
>standby
>shut down
know the difference

>>3237855
Children also believe in magic and santa clause. Not exactly an authority as far as logic goes.
Most children simply believe what their parents tell them and that is usually something nice about an all loving god (or mean god if you want to have your children behave) and something to calm them down if a relative dies.
Think about the time before you were born and you know what it's like to be dead. Earth existed for millions of years, humans for many thousands of years.

What are you even supposed to do in the afterlife? Wonder around super happy for eternity and that's it?
Might sound edgy, but the happiest I could be with my face in a pair of tits and my nose full of coke. What kind of happy are we in heaven? What are we supposed to do there?

>>3237905
>Children also believe in magic and santa clause. Not exactly an authority as far as logic goes.

I said INTUITIVE, not LOGICAL. Yes, just like Santa or the solidity of matter, mind / body dualism is a spook. But mocking people for believing in things their brains have evolved to prime them to believe in is simply fedora.

>>3237912
I am not mocking people, but you have to admit human nature is funny, unable to accept the inevitable they come up with magic and elaborate belief systems. I guess it helps to cope with reality.

>>3237936

They're actually coping much better than you are, because they don't realize / won't accept that they're believing in fairy tales.

I think the world would be a better place, less religious conflicts at least.

>>3237948

Unless the reality is Valhalla, that might lead to a huge increase in violence.

>>3237953
Fuck yeah,a I'd go OODIIIIIIIIN!!!! all over you!

>>3237684
Y u so triggered tho

>all this samefagging
No, srsly

>>3237625
This is missing the point of the thread to stir replies. OP obviously means of everyone universally came to a consensus that it was x.Also OoBE directly go against conscious being entirely dependent on bodily function

>>3237798
You have to wonder if animals that mourn the dead like elephants are able to register that it will eventually happen to it. I think they once taught a gorilla sign language, taught it about death, and it replied something along the lines of being scared of that.

>>3237798
>>3241131
Actually, never mind, that was an Onion article. The gorilla (Koko) learned sign language and was able to recognize, express emotions, and talk about death.

>>3237798
> There's a reason your brain won't tell you what you secretly already know

Plenty of people have brains that tell them that, including you.

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>>3237310
We'd see different types of explosions if we found out for certain that something happened after death, such as being born into a different realm, or being reincarnated here. Unless there's a karmic caveat, most people would joyfully stop giving a fuck.

If we're born somewhere else, never returning to Earth, there'd be general anarchy. Maybe some people would have enough fear or strong enough morals that they'd try to hide away and secure themselves for the remainder of their time here.

If we're reincarnated here (but without karma) then we'd see some chaos, but there'd be plenty of people who would reason that the place should be kept clean if we're all coming back again. It would be roughly the same logic that people use when trying to make a better life for their kids, but much stronger because it's selfish.

If there's karma? Huge increase in religious life. Terrified people desperately trying to do good and get on the right side of things. Still quite a few who give no fucks.

Why would anything happen faggot

>muh feels make me believe I'm special

>>3241583

Why would you be conscious at all, anon?
> muh nihilism

>>3241594
because storing memory of friends, enemies, locations and practices was extremely beneficial to survival of animals

>>3241600
That explains memory, but not conscious awareness.

>>3241608
That is your memory being cross-referenced, you'll realize the true nature of your existence when you sustain an injury to the brain.

The thought of the void and nothingness after death terrifiese and often keeps me awake at night.

So yeah, bad idea to have everyone like that.

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>>3241611
That dodges the question. Why would there need to be a (You) having a conscious experience of that process?

There are very interesting things that happen when the brain is modified.
Read about the corpus callosum being cut in epileptic patients, or the stroke experienced by Jill Bolte.
Read about people who have undergone neurosurgery with all brain activity stopped. Some of them report some quite interesting near death experiences.

In any case, no one yet has a clue what exactly consciousness is.

>>3241639
>void and nothingness
Good news, you literally cannot perceive it because the brain won't work.

>>3241648
I know, that's the terrifying part

>>3241640
>that dodges the question
No, you are nothing but your memory otherwise you are just the initial sensory input from the world and the base functions like an insect. If you were to have pieces of your memory removed you are no longer "you". To understand how easy it is to change a "you" should set clear that what you have is an over attachment to your own physical body and ego.

>>3241650
Have a free trippy video https://youtu.be/JjprErb__TE

>>3237636
Think back to what it was like for you during the construction of the pyramids, Caesar's conquest of Gaul, the French Revolution etc. It'll be like that.

>>3237666
Nice try satan

>>3241660
I've experienced ego death while maintaining full conscious awareness. I can tell you firsthand that "you" are not simply your body, ego or memory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego_death

Out of curiosity, have you experienced this?
If so, how did you come out of it with that belief?

>>3237676
This.

>>3241699
I smoked weed and tripped on acid and the ego died but it just became more clear, you merely have an attachment to your vessel, your brain included as the vessel, your memories. Those will fade because they are just the body, what you are is the accumulation of memory of your environment. I don't really care what other drug users may say about talking to God, that's an unfounded delusion.

>>3237676
>taking a metaphor literally
I think what the monk is trying to say is the limb is to the brain what the brain is to the mind

>>3241699
Greentext of it didn't happen

>>3241321
Out of all of the religions being true, those with reincarnation mixed in would be coolest. Or like the same soul is reincarnated into everyone who ever lived. So you're everyone. I'm you, you're me, we both were (or will be) literally Hitler at some point, as well as the person who got ran over at the protest.

>>3241711
Leary's description is better than I can probably put it, but it's eerily similar to what I mean:

> ... complete transcendence − beyond words, beyond space−time, beyond self. There are no visions, no sense of self, no thoughts. There are only pure awareness and ecstatic freedom from all game (and biological) involvements.
> ["Games" are behavioral sequences defined by roles, rules, rituals, goals, strategies, values, language, characteristic space−time locations and characteristic patterns of movement. Any behavior not having these nine features is non− game: this includes physiological reflexes, spontaneous play, and transcendent awareness.]

That "no place" where there is no spacetime, no self, zero thoughts, but there is a pure, singular awareness of... I don't know what. White light? Eternity? Infinity? It doesn't make sense to describe it with words.

>>3241719
>transcendence
This is immediately a warning to be skeptical of what someone is saying, he's partially on point about transcending social conventions but not biology because the consciousness is 100% biology.

You asked me if I experienced ego death but I don't think you have because it seems you can't let go of this existence. It's also worth saying that ego death is only a brief moment.

>>3241733
It wasn't like that for me. It felt like it lasted eons, and was just as he describes above.
There was nothing else in reality. I let go of all existence, but the fundamental awareness remained.

It could be an illusion. That would raise further questions, like: why are we wired to be able to even have such an experience? If it's the brain that creates consciousness, then how does it do so?

It may turn out to be 100% biology, but that is not proven, and there isn't even a consensus among the people that study it scientifically. You might be surprised at what some of the most respected physicists thought about it. Look into what Planck and Schrödinger had to say.

But everybody knows gnosticism is true anon.

>>3241752
You're not seeing how irrelevant any of it would be considering that "you" still do not survive. Your memories are 100% what "you" are and without them you're nothing. Observe a loved one with alzheimer's and see the world they live in, it's like looking at a mockery of what ego-centric humans believe.
The problem is you want to bring "you" with you instead of looking at life as it is.
Every insect an amoebas have just as much a claim on an after life as any animal that just so happens to possess more memory capacity.

>>3241752
didn't address the questions
>why are we wired to be able to even have such an experience
Consequence of the chemical cocktail stirring in our heads where things like LSD make us trip balls, combined with the vast libraries of memories we have to be a foundation for these "visions".

>If it's the brain that creates consciousness, then how does it do so?
About the same way when a computer is fully functioning.

>You might be surprised at what some of the most respected physicists thought about it. Look into what Planck and Schrödinger had to say.
That's their belief then but as someone who accumulated enough knowledge prior to the ego death I was able to observe first hand how susceptible the human mind is to these things, understanding the nature of the ego, understanding what assembles our "personalities" and how fickle it truly is.

>>3237905
>Think about the time before you were born
You don't even have to do that.
Think about a moment you can't remember.
You can't, right?
Now imagine if you couldn't remember anything, not even your attempt to remember.
Welcome to death.

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>>3241852
>you will never die in your sleep

I don't think much will happen really. There are a lot of people who know for certain nothing happens after you die, and they don't all behave like >>3237310. If 50% of the population don't succumb to existential dread right now, I don't see why this would change when it becomes 100%.
On the contrary, if some religion turned out to be true something would at least change for atheists. But nothing much would change for religious people, since they already believed that stuff in the first place.

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>>3237714

>>3241699
You can never believe what drug users tell you about their experiences, because the notion that there's some validity to their experience is all just part of the drug's effects.

>>3241895
Why would inanimate drugs do such a thing as that?

>>3242025
Why would inanimate drugs get you high? lol

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>>3241812
>About the same way when a computer is fully functioning
>it is another the brain is only a computer episode

>>3242034
Because they are actually extraterrestrials.

>>3241321
>We'd see different types of explosions if we found out for certain that something happened after death
Suicide rates would go through the roofs for sure.

>>3241781
That's your belief, but as I said, it isn't backed up by any science yet.

>>3243029
Also, as I'm trying to explain, but can't get through to you for some reason - there is a state that you, as a singular point of awareness can exist in. There is no memory, you don't know who you are, you don't remember that you're human, etc. - but you're still conscious. It's weird. Oh well.

We do in the same sense we ~know~ the sun will rise tomorrow, we know nothing happens after brain activity ceases.

>>3237262
Oh boy this post sucks!
1. Don't appeal to authority. Just because a physicist chimed into a neuroscientific debate doesn't mean you have to take their belief into consideration.
2. There is not a large divide between vitalists and physicalists. Most people studying consciousness consider themselves physicalists- and are hoping to explain consciousness materially.
3. Mental configuration affects the primary aspects of consciousness. Without any mental activity (death) it is hard to see how one could be aware of anything or process any information.
4. You do not have a direct awareness of your experience- it is convoluted within a language and syntactical structure that is publically arrived at.
5. You have about as much knowledge of your inner thought as you have about your friends. Building off #4.
6. There is no "self" to be maintained afterward as self is a contingent concept arrived at by way of #4.
7. No evidence to support anything happening after death. Even if some sort of consciousness persisted, you'd be lacking the mental configuration that makes it possible to perceive it, act, and possibly even think (if thought does happen prior to consciousness and consciousness is only the perceiving of said thought with the addition of language).
8. to build on #7- given all else ceases at death, a continued consciousness would be in some sense synonymous with death, for you wouldn't be capable of perceiving a self, or any information through your senses- on top of this your brain would be dead which means thought would be non-existent as well. Hence, you wouldn't be aware you're still persisting through time, or whatever plane you're in, and this I find to be the same as death.

>>3237310
>If we found out for certain that nothing happens after death, the world would likely fall apart. People just wouldn't give a fuck anymore

That'd be more true if heaven or reincarnation was guarenteed, as people would stop fearing death
Death = nothing = fear/avoid at all cost is more or less the current general stance on the topic

>>3242046
>it's another "I'm special because I'm ME so I must be" episode

>>3243438
No one else is you, anon.

>>3244400
>"everything abides by a logic and functions at the result of a joining of parts"
>"EXCEPT MEEEEEEEE"

>>3237262
see: ancient egypt

How do the afterlifers explain those who have died and been medically resuscitated, and experienced nothing during their time dead?

>>3243438
>All squares are rectangles therefore all rectangles are squares!

>>3243311
>heaven
>reincarnation
If your typical heaven or reincarnation were guaranteed, the opposite would happen. If you don't give a fuck and be a piece of shit your whole life, you'll either burn in hell for eternity or be reincarnated as a bacterium in some guy's ass.

>>3245149
I've heard Catholics say you remain dead until the Final Judgement so it makes sense not to really see anything being resuscitated a few minutes later.

Others use NDE's as evidence to the contrary.

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>>3243161
Holy fuck this post just ignited my existential dread

>>3245149
But then there are plenty who did and came back knowing things about a person or place they would have never known.
NDE's are spooky.

Humans wouldn't be humans anymore for we only exist within the concept of death

>we exist in this completely absurd reality not knowing the point, how or why we came into existence

>b-but nothing can exist on the other side! Death is the end even though humans can only perceive 0.00000001% of the electromagnetic spectrum!

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>>3237262
>How much would humanity's vision of itself change if we knew what exactly happens after death?
>>3237310
>If we found out for certain that nothing happens after death, the world would likely fall apart. People just wouldn't give a fuck anymore. The more extreme religious people would go apeshit. I doubt they'd buy it. Some would remain skeptical.

There's pretty good evidence for a soul which is pretty good evidence for an afterlife..

> Now, if we knew what happens (and it became a mainstream stuff like any scientific "truth") it would change completely our cosmovision as species.

Why is that? Do you need a reason to be a good person?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R37BcbpvxiY

>>3244411
>Quantum mechanics

>>3245820
A thousand times this.
How people can be so secure in their belief is beyond me.
Believing that there's something on the other side is as foolish as believing that there's nothing.
Accept the fact that you do not know.
Allow for the possibility of both outcomes.
You'll find out soon enough!

>>3237262
STEMspergs have deluded everybody.
There is an afterlife, that is known.
Evolution does not happen.

>>3237310
>buying STEMsperg memes
>thinking anybody takes your STEMsperg memes
Back to /r/eddit please

>>3237625
>STEMspergs actually believe this

>>3237666
>it's a children's story because i le sed so XDD PICKLE RICK XDD

>>3237684
>muh STEMsperg memes say this so its true!
Letzter Mensch

>>3237905
You're a child. Logic is totally irrelevant and has no authority. It's a meme system made up by primitives.
Teenagers belong on teenage boards, like /b/. Go back.

>>3237936
Human nature doesn't exist. Death is not inevitable, it does not exist. Just because something doesn't fit into your autistic ideology does not mean it does not exist.
>>3237948
Religious conflicts don't happen. A conflict has no faith.

>>3241600
>muh STEM is correct becuz i sed so
Back to /r/eddit.

>>3241733
>consciousness is biological becuz muh STEMsperg professor (implying you're older than 15) sed so!

>>3243029
Why is science correct? Muh memes? Sorry! Nobody cares about your invalid memes! Science is totally irrelevant and is for brainlet children!

>>3245149
They never died.

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>>3246411
Science doesn't lead to belief or correctness.
It's only a method that points us in the direction of useful models (or away from useless ones).
It's what we can best demonstrate to be real.
But that demonstration is never final, or 100% conclusive.
The method requires that the model continually be checked, forever.

>>3247874
>ITS CORRECT BECAUSE I SAID IT OS HAHAHAHA
Try again, dogmatist. 'muh memes' isn't. Pragmatism is not the reason, and you are blind to this because you're in the quicksand.

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Death is the great equalizer. It gives struggle meaning by limiting time, makes stakes in choices truly consequential, and nurtures the kind of sublime beauty that only blossoms in the ephemereal. Anyone - transhumanist or religious - who doesn't yearn for a final end, is a faggot and a coward.

>a children's story is the only thing keeping some people from killing themselves
Lmao you can't make this shit up.

>>3246349
>>3246407
>>3246409
>this desperate and egotistical to convince yourself that you'll never die

>>3248809
>ego is bad
You're the desperate one, Letzter Mensch. STEMsperg memes are irrelevant 'children's stories' designed to separate them from God. You cannot see this because you are deep in the quicksand.

>>3249000
>ego is bad
Letting your ego dictate that the world must physically revolve around it and using pseudo-science to stretch an explanation for it, is bad.

>>3249014
>becuz i sed so
Science is for little children. Ideologues like you cannot see that because you are in the quicksand. You cling to it because you were told to. You blatant hypocrite.

>>3248788
>the cessation of all thought in the universe gives meaning.
It's literally antithetical

>>3249030
>I am too special to die like literally everything else
:the ideology
You are the ideologue.

>>3249157
I think he applies that afterlife thing to everyone Anon.

Also barring total political collapse humans will probably be functionally immortal in a few centuries

>>3249317
Because of centuries of advances in manipulation of the physical world backed by billions of dollars

>>3249157
No, you are the ideologue. Nobody dies; death is a humanist delusion.
>>3249396
There is no physical world as you claim, ideologue. There is no manipulation, only rape by 'sperger ideologues like yourself.

>>3249450
>sperg
>literally obsessed with a fairy tale like a 12 year old obsessed with Sonic the Hedgehog
Sperg

>>3249396
Yeah I meant due to technological progress making physical bodies immune to standard aging. Granted physical destruction and the end of the universe* are inevitable at this point.

*The universe never ends according to current physics but it does stop being hospitable to life.

>>3249478
>HAHA ITS LE FAIRY TAIL BECAUSE I HAVE LE AUTISM

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>>3248722
> Muh anti-science memes

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>>3248809
The difference is I'm willing to accept both outcomes.
It may be the end, and it may not be.
Most in this thread, including (you), have one set viewpoint, regardless of the lack of proof.

>>3249740
You have the autism.
>>3249744
'proof' is good, why?