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I've been trying so hard to get over the failure of Barbarossa

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Thread replies: 43
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I've been trying so hard to get over the failure of Barbarossa despite the incredible damage inflicted but I CAN'T DO IT

HOW COULD THEY LOSE WHEN THEY DESTROYED SO MUCH AND ADVANCED SO FAR? NO COUNTRY COULD SURVIVE THIS!
>>
Russia had more land, equipment, and men.
R U Retarded or just German?
>>
*deploys reserves*
psshhhh
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>>3217652
There has never been a country as capable of absorbing horrific and comically disproportionate loss ratios as the USSR while still winning.

Not even China
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>>3217669
Whilst being the exception of history (ww2 being largest war and the eastern front being largest theater in history) the principle still stands, Russia has more men, equipment, and land whilst the Germans do not ergo the higher losses of the red army and territory are proportionally equivalent or smaller than the German losses.
Its so simple?
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It was all thanks to Zhukovs tactical genius.
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>>3217691
it wasn't an actual question
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today i will remind them

it doesnt matter what amount you "destroy"
what matters is the percentage you suffer and you cause

germans lost 2/3 of their armor before operation typhoon
and 1/3 of their personel

that is more than USSR losses
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Mud
Rasputitsa
Winter and no winter clothes packed
Heavy own losses
Lines streched too thin
Shitty supply and logistics
Armor and vehicles useless in shitty weather

Meanwhile the Soviets efficiently moved away all their industrial potential to Urals, which helped them spam armament like nothing happened. Also more manpower and fresh divisions coming from the east.

Barbarossa was simply unwinnable no matter how you look at it. Even if Soviet winter counteroffensive never happened and Germans somehow miraculously managed to drag themselves to Moscow they would just fucking freeze and die there in an urban combat that would make Stalingrad look like picnic in park. Moscow is a gigantic city, the Germans would simply get lost there and perish in brutal urban combat under heavy winter. The winter of 1941 was on of the coldest winters in an entire 20th century, and this is fucking Russia we're talking about.
>>
>>3217752
Yes and the Soviets lost 90% of their armour in 1941. It was about more than percentages.
>>
The Soviets had a larger military than the rest of the world's militaries combined. Hitler was extremely retarded. He should have let the Non-Aggression Pact be.
>>
>>3217769
There are scenarios where Barbarossa is winnable but they are very unlikely.

The 'winter clothes' thing is a myth and I'm not sure where 'shitty logistics' comes from unless you're comparing to late-war US logistics.
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>>3217782
No, it was more like 66%.
>>
>>3217789
Wouldn't Stalin have invaded Germany eventually?
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>>3217793
No, Stalin actually offered to help the Germans if they needed it. He was hoping the Germans would fight France for a long time like during WWI and he would supply Germany and profit from it.
>>
>twf thought this was going to be a comfy medieval history thread about the actual Barbarossa
>it's le epic WW2 thread #325675 instead
>>
>>3217801
>wahhh. Why isn't every thread about my favorite part of history?
>Wut? Make my own thread? No, fuck that!
>>
>>3217790
It's true, they didn't have proper protective clothing, at least nothing similar to what the Soviets had, who were much more prepared for harsh conditions.

The German supply system in USSR ran mostly on trains and for some bizarre reason no one in German High Command knew that the Soviet train track system is completely different than German and that there was no means for German supply trains to run there. They had to destroy entire sections of tracks and build their own in haste so their trains could pass.
>>3217793
No. Stalin trusting Hitler is exactly what caused Barbarossa in the first place.
>>
>>3217801
>Anno Domini 2017
>still having some hope
Ahaha look at this fella.
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>>3217792
They lost 20,500 of their initial 22,600
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>>3217796
>>3217806
I just can't imagine how Hitler-Stalin cooperation would have worked out in the long term.
They both hated each other, for Hitler, bolsheviki were even worse than the jews
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>>3217806
Any military transporting heavy equipment is rail-based. The difficulty wasn't some kind of comical 'The Germans didn't know Russians had different rails', but rather the primitive and non-standardised infrastructure of the vast land they occupied.

I can provide you further sources on the WW2 rail situation in Russia if you're actually interested.
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>>3217817
There were talks between German and Soviet officials in November 1940 whether should USSR join the Axis and on what conditions. They failed because Hitler already decided that he would invade.
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>>3217626
Doesn't matter how many times you stab a skyscraper, it's a fucking skyscraper, it's simply too big to take down, and realistically even if you were somehow to destroy the skyscraper with your knife the difficulty in holding a skyscraper with knives meant that it was almost certainly not going to work out.
>>
>>3217811
problem with USSR numbers is they lie, the actual number are usually classified and the archives are opening up but they are reluctant to give access to anyone non russian, the great defensive war is a carefully constructed propaganda that is still valid for russians
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I've read before that early in the war germany was able to get operational numerical superiority which i take to mean that they typically outnumbered the russians in a single fight even if the red army was bigger overall.
Although i'm pretty sure the german army was larger for most of 1941.
Does this have merit? because i can't find where i read it.
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>>3217626
they overreached and overstretched maybe? that last moscow take over effort in early december was a bit too much coupled with the fact the soviets reserved their proper resistance to that moment that would favor them: winter with the enemy overstretched.
in other words, strategically the russians were much better. they're chess players by nature
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>>3217892
its the general strategy for offense during the war, mass local superiority, encircle the defense if they dont retreat, become a risk when the opponents have reserves that can launch equally strong counter offenses
>>
Hitler seemed rather surprise at the Soviets industrial capacity when he spoke to Mannerhem
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>>3217892
It's right in that the Soviets in occupied Poland weren't properly prepared for war against Germany so they lost unnecessary many in the first few weeks.
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>>3217932
Mannerheim fucking hated the dude anyway.
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>>3217626
Russia was secretly supplied with a tremendous amount goods from the Allies.
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>>3217980
Not in the beginning. They were ironically supplying Germany.
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>>3217980
Russians pushed away Germans from Moscow without any Allied equipment.
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Russia has significantly more resources than Germany. The longer the war went on, the more of it can be used. The germans needed to win quickly and destroy Moscow but as any idiot should know, Russia is big. And trading land for time is as valid a strategy during Napleon's days as it is now.

Also, intially welcomed as liberators in Ukraine, Belrussia and the Baltic states but later turned against them. Who would have thought that treating the western regions of Russia as subhumans would blow back in their faces.
>>
>>3217811
Sure but did you also see how many tanks those crazy slavs were pumping out by 1942? On top of having another front opened on them and having to bail out Italy, their WWI tier logistics and their underestimation of Russia, Germany stood no chance to ever win.
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>>3218073
>Also, intially welcomed as liberators in Ukraine, Belrussia and the Baltic states but later turned against them
Only in Baltics, on the Ukraine it was rare and in Belarus lolno.
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>>3218128
To be fair, the Ukrainians did see the Germs as liberators at first, it didn't take very long for that to change though.
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>>3217626
They tried so hard
they got so far
but in the end it didnt even matter
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>>3217626
Factories moved from west to east, and the Siberian divisions arrived as the offensive stalled. Russia is HUGE
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>>3217669
5:1 is bad, but not horrible, and not the worst that countries have come back from.
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Did Russian really need the Allies supplies or Stalin just went "Gib me dat"?
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>>3218414
I heard that gunpowder is the bottleneck of soviet industry and many of them were supplied from the Allies. Thats why most of soviet artillery is mortar based unlike the german that have many 120+mm
Thread posts: 43
Thread images: 5


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